Support NeoGAF

[RichiRamjag]

This "Sony can do no wrong" rhetoric is kind of surprising. Let’s not forget that Sony confirmed the existence of the Neo (in a very low-key statement) before E3 and that both the Neo and PSVR will presumably launch within a few months of each other. Microsoft’s approach has been far more transparent in trying to make their audience aware of the future and the options available to them. If Sony pulls an "available now" with the Neo as he seems to suggest, I imagine a lot of people who don’t keep up with the latest rumors will be upset and confused – especially if they just bought a PS4 or PSVR.

This keeps getting thrown out, but the explanation provided makes sense. I'm not sure why folks are trying to put together throw this out as if it throws Sony's reasoning out of the window. They merely said it was being worked on and outright said it would not be shown. In regards to confusion at launch, no one is going to be confused about a major console launch. This information isn't hidden to a small subset of gamers.

 

[boredandlazy]

I don't think anyone in this thread has said that Sony can do no wrong

Only the people using it as a base for their retort.

 

[CoolCat]

edited

 

[Freeman]

This "Sony can do no wrong" rhetoric is kind of surprising. Let’s not forget that Sony confirmed the existence of the Neo (in a very low-key statement) before E3 and that both the Neo and PSVR will presumably launch within a few months of each other. Microsoft’s approach has been far more transparent in trying to make their audience aware of the future and the options available to them. If Sony pulls an "available now" with the Neo as he seems to suggest, I imagine a lot of people who don’t keep up with the latest rumors will be upset and confused – especially if they just bought a PS4 or PSVR.

MS is all about transparency.

Some people will always be upset. You think that a guy that bought a Xbox One Fat one day before they announced the slim will be jolly?

 

[BacklashWave534]

No but if you think about it it's most likely a 480 that MSRP at 199, and the way they pay for parts to manufactur at bottom dollar, it could easily be that.

For me personally it comes down to having both the full PC and Xbox libraries available when investing in PC. Combine that with a PS4 and there are no limitations on what you can play. Also, I'm sceptical about the 480s 4k capability when the GTX980(nvidia equivalent) struggles with 4k. I assume we will see a lot of 4k at 20fps games.

 

[Saintruski]

For me personally it comes down to having both the full PC and Xbox libraries available when investing in PC. Combine that with a PS4 and there are no limitations on what you can play. Also, I'm sceptical about the 480s 4k capability when the GTX980(nvidia equivalent) struggles with 4k. I assume we will see a lot of 4k at 20fps games.

I'm a PC gamer to, my PC can barely do 4k60 . I don't think it will do 4K well either. 4k30 is possible with dips, but they'll probably also have to drop the eye candy. I'd say the best rout us for them to go is to go 1080p60 and push eye candy to the max....that often what I do with my PC since I often can't drive 4K to a framerate I deem acceptable is I drop down to 1440 and push eye candy.

But this Xbox will definitely be affordable, don't make that mistake.

 

[DesertFox]

believe it or not, not all married couples have a manchild/ball-and-chain dynamic straight out of a shitty sitcom.

Jesus, it was just a joke. Take it easy.

 

[eyeball_kid]

This "Sony can do no wrong" rhetoric is kind of surprising. Let’s not forget that Sony confirmed the existence of the Neo (in a very low-key statement) before E3 and that both the Neo and PSVR will presumably launch within a few months of each other.

I don't think it should be presumed at all that the Neo will launch close to the PSVR. Sony would be foolish to not alter their plans after seeing MS's Scorpio plans. MS has given Sony a gift and laid it at their feet. Who needs corporate espionage when the competition tells you straight out what their hardware will be 18 months from now?

 

[icespide]

believe it or not, not all married couples have a manchild/ball-and-chain dynamic straight out of a shitty sitcom.

geez dude

 

[Freeman]

believe it or not, not all married couples have a manchild/ball-and-chain dynamic straight out of a shitty sitcom.

You must be so fun at parties, I also love to judge the relationships of people I don't know based on their electronic consumption behavior..

 

[Outrun]

Eh? But there is a difference though?

One platform manufacturer, somewhat reluctantly, confirmed that a codenamed project was indeed worked on when pressed by a journalists. This statement was presented only as a statement and was initially made public in one interview piece. This project manufacturer made it adamantly clear that they're not ready to talk about it nor give details about specs and capabilities of said project. They did, however, outline a clear and cohesive plan on what consumers can expect from this project, and how it will relate towards their current offering.

The other displayed its project front row and center in the industry's largest trade show in front of thousands of people and journalists watching, in a clear and conscious marketing move in order to garner interest in its brand. The entire messaging was bold chest-bumping about a "monster" of a console, and the unlimited possibilities it would give game makers. After this presentation, however, the manufacturer clearly didn't have a clear message and explanation about what exactly the console was capable of, and what gamers could actually expect from it. Rather awkwardly, the gaming community has since heard quite contradictory statements regarding said project.

Difference is Sony acknowledged Neo's existence, while Microsoft paraded Scorpio around for the world to see in a marketing move. With marketing you get exposure, but you're then also submitting yourself to questioning and investigation regarding the claims you've made.

Person A says that they're working on getting their drivers license.
Person B says that they'll have a drivers license within a year, while claiming that they're the fastest driver in town.
There's a difference, is it not?

Wow, the amount of spin that some are applying is incredible.

The reveal by MS served to steal Sony's Neo thunder plain and simple.

To pretend that Sony does not engage is such practices is laughable.

I am not sure why you are concerned that MS is calling their shot about being the most powerful console in 2017?

I like it. It puts pressure on them to deliver. And they need to deliver.

 

[AmyS]

Sony is still on fire with the current PS4. The Neo will almost definitely offer even better graphics at native 1080p. It will also be out before Scorpio.

Then there's Mark Cerny:

"Next generation, PS5?"

"Don't worry, I got this."

 

[Breakfast at Noon]

Why does everyone think the neo is coming this year? If they released it this year it would just cause problems for PSVR in hardware sales, I know I'd have too choose one or the other.
Will be out next Xmas ready for the rush and no doubt the power is been increased to tackle the new Xbox.

 

[Crimson_Gold]

Why does everyone think the neo is coming this year? If they released it this year it would just cause problems for PSVR in hardware sales, I know I'd have too choose one or the other.
Will be out next Xmas ready for the rush and no doubt the power is been increased to tackle the new Xbox.

They aren't producing PSVR to the levels where this would even be an issue. PSVR is meant to be a slow burn, not a 10 million unit product by the end of the fiscal year

 

[Boke1879]

Why does everyone think the neo is coming this year? If they released it this year it would just cause problems for PSVR in hardware sales, I know I'd have too choose one or the other.
Will be out next Xmas ready for the rush and no doubt the power is been increased to tackle the new Xbox.

This is NOT how things work. Neo dev kits have been with developers for months. They briefed retailers about Neo earlier this year. Specs are largely locked in place.

People who want VR will get VR. People who want a PS4 this fall will get a PS4. Nothing really changes.

 

[Jonboy]

You want a fun conversation? Try explaining GamerGate to anyone who doesn't care about video games.

Lol. I have no idea how I managed to do it, but I've almost completely avoided that whole...thing. Hopefully I'm able to keep it that way.

 

[kinoki]

Games are totally different than hardware announcements.
Spider-man being 2017+ has no effect on whether I'll be buying a console or other games (Person 5) now.

I'd argue that knowing that Sony intends to support their console past 2017 with great titles (and not just yearly iterations of EA Sports) is something that might get a consumer interested enough to buy their console. Today even!

Everything Microsoft showed releases in the near future. Nothing beyond the very near horison. Plus, everything that releases will also be available on PC and be backwards compatible with Project Scorpio next year. Why buy it today?

 

[DannyDanger]

good choice

i just don't see how MS announcing it so early benefits anyone... Unless they think it'll stop ppl from buying Ps4s lol

 

[CoolCat]

edited

 

[messiaen]

It's kind of crazy that MS announced the Xbox One six months before it launched but Scorpio was announced a year and a half early. I can't wrap my head around that decision.



Yeah, this was my perception too. Even more confusing with all Xbox games being on W10 as well. Strange messaging overall.

The message is consumer choice. I think that's why they wanted to introduce the platform in the same conference. They're moving to a PC-esque model that your old hardware can still run the newer games, performance may not be as good, but that's what PC gamers experience and there are no complaints because it's our choice as a consumer to gauge value. Eventually the new games won't run on your old console, just like PC. The cross-play play just built on that idea of consumer choice. They know not all PC gamers don't want to buy a console, so why lock them out? It's in their best interest to have as many people using and buying their software as possible.

 

[GhaleonEB]

The most amusing thing from this interview is House noting the timing of the PS4 announcement as a mistake - too far from release - while MS followed that approach and then some, with Major Nelson noting it "worked for them". Taking two very different lessons from it. At this point their incentives are different, of course.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

good choice

i just don't see how MS announcing it so early benefits anyone... Unless they think it'll stop ppl from buying Ps4s lol

Hey, they gotta at least try!

 

[StrongBlackVine]

Not sure MS cares about moving Xbox Ones anymore.



But that's the thing, we know iPhone 8 is coming.

They care or else that statement by Spencer would not have bwen made.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

The most amusing thing from this interview is House noting the timing of the PS4 announcement as a mistake - too far from release - while MS followed that approach and then some, with Major Nelson noting it "worked for them". Taking two very different lessons from it. At this point their incentives are different, of course.

It does feel like a game is being played between them with Microsoft always one step behind. Hopefully just a coincidence and Andrew House getting a little dig in on Major Nelson!

 

[icespide]

But that's the thing, we know iPhone 8 is coming.

knowing its coming and having the company show a slick hype inducing video on a giant stage is different

 

[Portugeezer]

Yeah when Phil said Holiday 2017 I was a bit surprised. 18 month wait for Scorpio... why buy XB1 now? Especially with the talk that, yes, XB1 will at some point be left behind and not forever be compatible with Scorpio games.

Buy an XB1 now and enjoy a short life cycle? Why would anyone do so?

Messaging with Scorpio has been a bit shit overall.

 

[ShapeGSX]

Damn, AMD could be real dicks now, if everything wasn't finalized.

AMD: "6TF you say? I'm afraid it wont be cheap."

Contracts are drawn up long before announcements are made. Before work even starts, in fact.

 

[texore]

Sony like......

 

[Crayon]

Does it seems to anyone else like xbox would be better off if they stopped listening so much to their most ardent fans?

It seems like this whole scorpio thing is completely titillating to forum-goers while being a disaster outside of that sphere. I understand that where the core goes the masses follow, but as some point you have to draw a line and how small and how hard that core really is.

 

[system11]

It's almost like a poker game, feels like Sony intentionally got Microsoft to show their hand early. On the other hand MS actually seemed positive and games focused, it was a good presentation from them overall, they projected confidence.

 

[The_Dama]

Good move for MS. Tell the people the new Xbox will be more powerful than the new PS4.

 

[vpance]

Think about the MAUs!!!!!!!


Which I find weird....I could log onto my computer and it automatically logs me in. Doesn't mean anything as I play Warcraft. I haven't had my Xbox one plugged in since completing forza horizon 2 and I don't buy anything. Sure MAUs go up.....but that doesn't mean they buy anything.

It's always about the potential to buy something from their store down the line, once you feel locked in. And they hope things like crossplay and crossbuy will be big incentives.

 

[Curufinwe]

The most amusing thing from this interview is House noting the timing of the PS4 announcement as a mistake - too far from release - while MS followed that approach and then some, with Major Nelson noting it "worked for them". Taking two very different lessons from it. At this point their incentives are different, of course.

There's also a huge difference between February to November, and June to November the next year. The gap is almost twice as long.

 

[wtd2009]

Yeah when Phil said Holiday 2017 I was a bit surprised. 18 month wait for Scorpio... why buy XB1 now? Especially with the talk that, yes, XB1 will at some point be left behind and not forever be compatible with Scorpio games.

Buy an XB1 now and enjoy a short life cycle? Why would anyone do so?

Messaging with Scorpio has been a bit shit overall.

As long as there are the price drops and bundles they still should be alright. Though I agree with the overall sentiment,it feels a bit premature with the mixed messages in interviews.

 

[xxracerxx]

Yeah when Phil said Holiday 2017 I was a bit surprised. 18 month wait for Scorpio... why buy XB1 now? Especially with the talk that, yes, XB1 will at some point be left behind and not forever be compatible with Scorpio games.

Buy an XB1 now and enjoy a short life cycle? Why would anyone do so?

Messaging with Scorpio has been a bit shit overall.

Scorpio isn't an entirely new gen though....

 

[Boke1879]

It does feel like a game is being played between them with Microsoft always one step behind. Hopefully just a coincidence and Andrew House getting a little dig in on Major Nelson!

Possibly but a key difference is during the PS4 reveal in Feb, they showed games running. Also the console was coming out within the same year. About 9 months I believe. So there are some caveats. That said. Neo is essentially their "revision. So when they reveal they want it out asap since they are both essentially PS4's.

 

[slavesnyder]

I don't think it should be presumed at all that the Neo will launch close to the PSVR. Sony would be foolish to not alter their plans after seeing MS's Scorpio plans. MS has given Sony a gift and laid it at their feet. Who needs corporate espionage when the competition tells you straight out what their hardware will be 18 months from now?

The gift is not the hardware specs, but the 18 months.

 

[Deadstar]

The gift is not the hardware specs, but the 18 months.

Unless Microsoft is lying......and it's 10 teraflops. Sony thinks they got them, so they plan for an 8 teraflop system then Microsoft drops the bombshell of oops, guess we misspoke. It's actually 10 teraflops.

 

[icespide]

Unless Microsoft is lying......and it's 10 teraflops. Sony thinks they got them, so they plan for an 8 teraflop system then Microsoft drops the bombshell of oops, guess we misspoke. It's actually 10 teraflops.

oh shiiiiiiiit

 

[GifGafIsTheBestGaf]

It would be cool if they pull off the available right now stunt

 

[DigSCCP]

MS is all about transparency

lol

 

[Dreamgazer]

I don't entirely agree -- info about both consoles had leaked, they both confirmed these new consoles and mentioned they were fully backwards compatible, Microsoft's hardware is just further out because that's how the schedules worked -- but it doesn't matter either way because that's not what House is actually saying. He's talking about how consumers now expect something "available now", that they don't want to wait for future potential.

That's not how Sony operates today or yesterday, for example their PlayStation VR announcement was well more than a year before its release. Which makes perfect sense, because you don't want the only info out there about an upcoming product being leaks you have no control over. That's exactly what Microsoft and Sony have done here with their new hardware, merely confirming stuff everybody already heard about, and House pretending to be concerned about this strange mistake on the part of MS is console wars nonsense. These products take a long time to finish, so both companies sell us the future.

I disagree.

First of all, you can't really make a comparison between PSVR and Scorpio. PSVR needed to be revealed early at GDC 2014 to attract developers onboard and to build up a launch portfolio to a high risk product. PSVR also had no competitors in the console market and no predecessor to cannibalize into, so it wasn't as if an early announcement would hurt the PS4 sales in any meaningful way. Scorpio on the other hand is the total opposite of the above - developers will have an easier time to buy in but an early announcement has a higher chance to cannibalize current X1 sales ("what's the point of the X1S" as many gaffers will say.) I'm pretty sure people would call Sony silly if they revealed the Neo 2 years before release at GDC 2014 like the PSVR did. IMO, Less than 1 year before the reveal is the optimal time to reveal a console (or at least after the holidays.)

Second, PS4 (Feb 2013), XB1(May 2013), PSVR(GDC 2014) all had their general specs revealed at their initial reveal (cpu, ram, screen resolution, etc). Solid information is what settles rumors/leaks and give people something to build their expectation upon. Scorpio left us with 6TF of power and nothing else. That didn't really do anything to the speculations, as we still have threads with wild speculations on the CPU, amount of ram, VR partnership, etc. My personal stance is that I would be much happier if MS just gave us the general specs now. We're really not any better off than before the reveal.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Does it seems to anyone else like xbox would be better off if they stopped listening so much to their most ardent fans?

It seems like this whole scorpio thing is completely titillating to forum-goers while being a disaster outside of that sphere. I understand that where the core goes the masses follow, but as some point you have to draw a line and how small and how hard that core really is.

What would've happened if they bought out a console that was not something exceptional, alongside Neo?

What you need to take into account is that when PS4K drops it'll likely be 4 years until PS5. So when Scorpio drops it will enjoy 3of the 4 years as the most powerful. Probably the same again the following cycle. Food for thought...

 

[Shambala]

The most amusing thing from this interview is House noting the timing of the PS4 announcement as a mistake - too far from release - while MS followed that approach and then some, with Major Nelson noting it "worked for them". Taking two very different lessons from it. At this point their incentives are different, of course.

This guy/gal gets it. Hits the nailing the head..

 

[wachie]

Pretty much the only interviews it seems Phil is getting.....is on the Scorpio.....none of them even mention the great games they showed. The slim really should have been all that was announced and then had a separate event to announce the Scorpio while delivering a clear message and showing the power advantages of it. Instead we have mixed PR responses and not well thought out messages. I don't think they were expecting the response that they got. Be it both positive or negative.

Personally I think Microsoft expected Sony talking about the Neo at this E3 and wanted to put a damper on that in a big way. And it would have put a big damper had Sony announced but guess they got wind of it and took out Neo. It may also explain why their conference had to end on Days Gone.

The whole "we're announcing Project Scorpio for the devs to get ready" was horseshit as if that was the case then they would have announced it at GDC or by direct means of communication with the devs themselves. I dont see any other reasoning for Scorpio announcement other than trying to move the conversation away from Neo.

 

[Boke1879]

Scorpio isn't an entirely new gen though....

While I think both companies are doing the same thing. Their wording is interesting.

MS is talking about a space without generations. Sony is hammering down on the fact that PSNeo is still within the same PS4 generation.

 

[twobear]

Does it seems to anyone else like xbox would be better off if they stopped listening so much to their most ardent fans?

It seems like this whole scorpio thing is completely titillating to forum-goers while being a disaster outside of that sphere. I understand that where the core goes the masses follow, but as some point you have to draw a line and how small and how hard that core really is.

Wasn't it roundly agreed that the PS4 succeeded because it was aimed at the hardcore while Xbone flopped because it was aimed at the everyman?

 

[GhaleonEB]

There's also a huge difference between February to November, and June to November the next year. The gap is almost twice as long.

Right, that's what I meant by "and then some". Took the idea of an early announcement and extended it further.

The timing really is odd. It's earlier than either the PS4 or Xbox One were announced (it might have a longer lead time than those two had combined).

 

[Crayon]

What would've happened if they bought out a console that was not something exceptional, alongside Neo?

What you need to take into account is that when PS4K drops it'll likely be 4 years until PS5. So when Scorpio drops it will enjoy 3of the 4 years as the most powerful. Probably the same again the following cycle. Food for thought...

This what I'm talking about. This fanfiction. You can't throw a rock without hitting it on the internet.

The power doesn't really matter that much. Never has.

 

[Oppo]

When has power ever mattered for console sales? The PS2 sold an insane amount despite being significantly less powerful than the OG Xbox you're referencing, and even the GameCube.

It's about games, marketing, and word of mouth. Power would have saved X1 and it won't turn their sales around unless their messaging also improves.

you seem to be agreeing with me, so... yeah?