And yet when interviewing a woman, everything is qualified to only include women specifically.?
Or do you think when they interview Serena, they dont qualify all the statements with woman or female?
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Andy Murray corrects journalist's casual sexism, internet storm ensues
- Thread starter Sage00
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And yet when interviewing a woman, everything is qualified to only include women specifically.?
Or do you think when they interview Serena, they dont qualify all the statements with woman or female?
That's decidedly not how it works if you've seen an interview of any female athlete ever.
It's totally realistic and valid. I can certainly see how people would find it condescending, but the attempt to pretend that men's tennis isn't on another level athletically also feels condescending to me. Additionally, the attempt to deemphasize athletic ability as the thing people place a premium on when it comes to sporting competitions feels condescending, as well. It feels belittling to all the effort people like Serena put in, belittling to the competition itself.
Seriously, the guy could have worded his opinion better, but it's an opinion rooted in the essence of competition itself. Worded better (and I'm not sure my post qualifies), I'm sure a lot of GAFfers would basically agree. I suspect what's going on here is a difference of emphasis. The poster with the "shitty" opinion (the other one, not me, assuming I do qualify for that) is emphasizing that men's tennis is the premium competition in terms of peak athleticism, and other posters are emphasizing the social aspect that reveals itself in our language.
Both perspectives can coexist and inform each other, in this case.
AuthenticM
Member
it was just a minor correction. the internet's response was
I love this.
Really happy so many dudes in here know what it's like to have your gender always need to be qualified. Such experts on sexism.
Good on Murray. As a woman, this stuff feels awesome. At least he's putting his neck out there to stand up for women.
Edit:
Lmao. Yeah, I'm sure Serena would TOTALLY agree and approve of this use of her name.
Good on Murray. As a woman, this stuff feels awesome. At least he's putting his neck out there to stand up for women.
Edit:
Lmao. Yeah, I'm sure Serena would TOTALLY agree and approve of this use of her name.
Nothing. MRA and Trump crowd are just fragile little snowflakes who are triggered by the mere mention of women mattering.
sixteen-bit
Member
Microaggression squashed.
"Serena Williams is one of the world's greatest athletes"
"It should be specified she is a female woman because she can't compete against the 500th best male tennis player."
---
"Sam Querrey is the first US tennis player through to a major semi-final since 2009"
"Haven't you heard of context? It's obvious that it's referring to male tennis players because Sam is a guy"
"It should be specified she is a female woman because she can't compete against the 500th best male tennis player."
---
"Sam Querrey is the first US tennis player through to a major semi-final since 2009"
"Haven't you heard of context? It's obvious that it's referring to male tennis players because Sam is a guy"
Laughable response from the right: "But the journalist was talking to Murray, who's a man, so of course he just meant male players! There was no mistake, Murray just bad."
Yeah okay. Lets change the roles up then. Journalist is talking to some white tennis player and says: "Your opponent was the first person since 2009 to reach the semi-finals..." Then the tennis player corrects the journalist: "First white person," because a black player had reached the semi-finals 5 times since 2009. Would it not be racism then? It would be, casual and ignorant and unintentional maybe, but racism nonetheless. Just as this is sexism here. Completely ignoring the accomplishments of women/minorities and acting as if "tennis player" means "male/white tennis player" by default is dumb.
All that said, some journalist being dumb and saying something sexist is hardly worth our time or outrage. Afaik nobody was directly or intentionally hurt by the journalist. Nor does there seem to be much of a link between his idiocy and the much worse acts of sexism which are perpetrated daily. It's good to criticise the dumb journalist but he probably doesn't deserve too much of our time or attention. Life is short and time is limited after all, our attention is a valuable commodity, maybe we should direct our efforts towards more important things. I'm aware of the irony of that statement after a relatively long post but whatever. If people talked as much about becoming vegetarian to stop climate change and world hunger then the world would likely be a much better place
Edit: To reverse the situation to something even more ridiculous, imagine if the US decided to make another moon landing but this time with women. Imagine if, when those women were interviewed, they were asked: "How does it feel to be the first humans to walk on the moon?" It would be a completely moronic question and the error is of the same kind -- though it's not of the same magnitude obviously. Really can't believe there are people out there trying to say the journalist didn't make a mistake lol
Yeah okay. Lets change the roles up then. Journalist is talking to some white tennis player and says: "Your opponent was the first person since 2009 to reach the semi-finals..." Then the tennis player corrects the journalist: "First white person," because a black player had reached the semi-finals 5 times since 2009. Would it not be racism then? It would be, casual and ignorant and unintentional maybe, but racism nonetheless. Just as this is sexism here. Completely ignoring the accomplishments of women/minorities and acting as if "tennis player" means "male/white tennis player" by default is dumb.
All that said, some journalist being dumb and saying something sexist is hardly worth our time or outrage. Afaik nobody was directly or intentionally hurt by the journalist. Nor does there seem to be much of a link between his idiocy and the much worse acts of sexism which are perpetrated daily. It's good to criticise the dumb journalist but he probably doesn't deserve too much of our time or attention. Life is short and time is limited after all, our attention is a valuable commodity, maybe we should direct our efforts towards more important things. I'm aware of the irony of that statement after a relatively long post but whatever. If people talked as much about becoming vegetarian to stop climate change and world hunger then the world would likely be a much better place
Edit: To reverse the situation to something even more ridiculous, imagine if the US decided to make another moon landing but this time with women. Imagine if, when those women were interviewed, they were asked: "How does it feel to be the first humans to walk on the moon?" It would be a completely moronic question and the error is of the same kind -- though it's not of the same magnitude obviously. Really can't believe there are people out there trying to say the journalist didn't make a mistake lol
n00bsauce87
Member
The reporter laughed it of, but Andy was serious as fuck.
He was like, "Don't fuck with my sport."
Clearly appreciates women's tennis
He was like, "Don't fuck with my sport."
Clearly appreciates women's tennis
PlayALLtheGames
Banned
What's WRONG with it? Are you KIDDING me??? Th...wh...I..meeeen's raaaaaiiits!
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Because of our species hate when women or people of color get any recognition.
no she isnt. if she will get beaten by male tennis players then it means she is not the greatest.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
But then you'd be objectively wrong. For me, you cannot have a different opinion on what Murray did here and what McEnroe did in that interview. Both are examples of accurate and objective qualifiers being used. If you are against one or the other, you are likely operating on biased grounds rather than the facts.
Krauser Kat
Member
This is also a great example of a microagression.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
Pretty sure that conversation went along the lines of a reporter saying she`s the best tennis player in the world, and then him correcting her with female tennis player. Even though he was right, it wasn`t necessary because it`s obvious. Then again, McEnroe is also kinda of a dick so that`s not surprising lol
If you`re going to make a point, at least paint it in the correct manner instead of making shit up
Portugeezer
Member
I expected something a bit more when I clicked this thread.
He was right to correct them though.
He was right to correct them though.
I'm not the first to mention her name, or to invoke her without speaking for her.
Although I was, in small part, channeling past interviews with her where she hasn't seemed to have much issue acknowledging the differences between men's and women's tennis. Personally, I don't think such recognition diminishes her accomplishments, or women's tennis in general. I know this isn't the main part of the ongoing argument in this thread, but it seems to be one of the things fueling the "so condescending" part of it, and accusing someone of being condescending for speaking the truth tends to be condescending to someone else (in my eyes, anyway).
GrizzleBoy
Banned
Andy Murray publicly shows respect to Serena Williams when talking about records and achievements in tennis history.
Controversy occurs.
Controversy occurs.
1) If
2) The greatest lose all the time. I can't think of anyone outside of boxing considered the greatest of their generation in a sport that never lost
That's not what objectively means.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
Objectivity has to do with facts and living in the real world right? Then you're wrong. Just because you think someone is the GOAT while being wrong, doesn't mean anyone should take your wrong pov seriously.
Whompa02
Member
Well said!!!!
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
ITT I realized that people even care about men's Tennis more than women's Tennis.
All my life, I've always associated Tennis with the women's game, as if that side was far more important and tended to get the most excitement and discussion (especially with the Williams sisters).
I don't think I've cared about men's Tennis since Pete Sampras retired from the game.
I only ever watch the women's Wimbledon games. In my mind the women's matches are the default, the ones that actually matter.
Tennis is probably one of the only sports I've grown up to see this way.
Today I learn that my view of things is unique and not as ubiquitous as I thought... I'm genuinely surprised.
All my life, I've always associated Tennis with the women's game, as if that side was far more important and tended to get the most excitement and discussion (especially with the Williams sisters).
I don't think I've cared about men's Tennis since Pete Sampras retired from the game.
I only ever watch the women's Wimbledon games. In my mind the women's matches are the default, the ones that actually matter.
Tennis is probably one of the only sports I've grown up to see this way.
Today I learn that my view of things is unique and not as ubiquitous as I thought... I'm genuinely surprised.
The Atticus
Member
Ok.....?
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
This is how bad lots of people want to keep women below the man. Even brief quick correct makes certain people get mad.
I am referring to this thread http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1321263 where posters go out of their way to point out that any male player could beat her so she's not the greatest and definitely needs the qualifier.
But when faced with actual facts rather than subjective statements such in this current thread, suddenly it is about 'context' because simply admitting the fact would make a male athlete look bad.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
She is not the greatest tennis player, that is a fact though. Defs one of the best athletes and one of the best tennis players atm, but saying she is the best is comically ignorant. People who go out of their to say she's not one of the greatest atheletes atm, well i can't speak for those insecure people. I can only speak about the statement that she's the GOAT tennis player, which is wrong.
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