Twitter has been criticized a lot during the last few months regarding their response to harassment. "I'll murder you" *report* "We've analized your request and we decided it isn't against our TOS". Been there.
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Anita Sarkeesian: 'What I Couldn't Say'
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Twitter has been criticized a lot during the last few months regarding their response to harassment. "I'll murder you" *report* "We've analized your request and we decided it isn't against our TOS". Been there.
civilstrife
Member
That's a whole lot of tone policing masquerading as constructive criticism.
And she didn't start this "whole disgusting mess". It was started by her harassers.
Right. Unless for some reason basic feminist criticism of an artisitic medium is grounds for mess starting.
Phrozenflame500
Member
Never understood why people have such a strong reaction to Sarkeesian. She's a tad bit stronger on the pro-feminism spectrum then I am but even when we disagree I generally see where she's coming from.
The boogeymanning really needs to stop, there are plenty of way worse actual radical feminists on the internet (not that harassment towards them is justified anyways). Sarkeesian is very, very tame in comparison.
The boogeymanning really needs to stop, there are plenty of way worse actual radical feminists on the internet (not that harassment towards them is justified anyways). Sarkeesian is very, very tame in comparison.
AstroNut325
Member
I can't believe people harass and spew death threats over shining a spotlight on a topic that needs more spotlights!
GROW THE F*** UP PEOPLE!
GROW THE F*** UP PEOPLE!
Well that's something I never expected to hear.
nrvalleytime
Member
And it should be noted - the job of the critic is not to fix issues. It is to find, critique, and expose artistic attempts for their worth and ability to speak truth.
Critics do not inherently need to present the answers. That's missing the point of criticism, something Matthew Arnold addresses rather nicely.
Man, I'm going to reformat and make a list of the cool people who are against this bullshit. Feel free to let me know who I Should add It's nice to have a reminder of real human decency. I doubt listing them all would really make a difference to what GG targets anyway.
That's just it. Sometimes she says stuff that rubs me the wrong way and I don't agree with everything she tweets, but at the end of the day all she's doing is making analytical videos discussing her views on videogames and a lot of the time her points are solid.
Her detractors have basically made her way more famous than she would have been if she just did what she intended to do, and the very notion that she's out to take away people's videogames is just silly.
The mess was started before the videos even got released. It started trough the harassers.
She made suggestions, very recently http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1000199
aspiegamer
Member
Since I (apparently) hate the world I actually read through most of the comments.
Until 6 months ago, I would never have thought there'd be a hate group perpetually willing to justify a fight against themselves. Bullies go bully someone for something they said about how those same bullies bullied them originally. Bonus points for doing so on a large public forum. Double bonus for the anger being about a convoluted conspiracy theory.
Is there some deep, fancy vocabulary word for this? It transcends any level of logical thought and I can't think of anything substantial enough to add to "stupid" that would suffice.
Until 6 months ago, I would never have thought there'd be a hate group perpetually willing to justify a fight against themselves. Bullies go bully someone for something they said about how those same bullies bullied them originally. Bonus points for doing so on a large public forum. Double bonus for the anger being about a convoluted conspiracy theory.
Is there some deep, fancy vocabulary word for this? It transcends any level of logical thought and I can't think of anything substantial enough to add to "stupid" that would suffice.
Aztechnology
Member
The more of those people that are exposed the easier it is to deal with them though. My point is it's not about dealing with the fringes. You can never fully change those people's opinions... they often have serious mental issues that can prevent rational thought in those circumstances but at least you can find out who those people are. It's about trying to deal with the broad base who aren't likely to do and say hurtful things if they are at any kind of risk of exposure. You're right it doesn't fix the problem, but it helps.
Aztechnology
Member
Come on man you know very well that's not what I meant. You are literally just baiting. I obviously meant the response to those videos. Not the videos themselves.
Tells you how much information I'm missing. I thought the huge issues started after she began producing the feminist frequency videos.
Anyway this thread is about empathy, that was just a reaponse I don't want to get stuck on it too long.
social media has proven anonymity is not the problem.
Maiden Voyage
Gold™ Member
She doesn't deserve to be treated this way. I am glad she continues her work despite. I don't know that I would be strong enough if I faced the same kinds of attacks and harassment. Her work benefits us all.
Aztechnology
Member
Maybe not the only problem, but it is certainly a problem. I did respond as though it was a fix all though. So that's my fault.
Success
Member
Indeed. We need to continue the fight for equality!
It's called Anita's Irony
(I'm not trying to imply that that makes her responsible. Harassing shitbags and their enablers are responsible)
civilstrife
Member
Baiting? Baiting for what, exactly? Believe me man, I did not know what you meant. Especially after a post focused on of all things, her tone. And I don't make any assumptions when there are so many people out there who say the harassment is her fault, or worse, that she's making it up.
You don't need a background in gaming to have an opinion on gender representation in video games
Your on a gaming forum, giving your opinion, what kind of background do you have in the gaming industry?
DoktorEvil
Banned
Then please get out of video games if video games are merely "enjoyment and escapism".
They can be so much more and I do not want to share a hobby with people who merely think this.
Games can mean different things to different people. Apparently the hard part is those people coexisting
ShockingAlberto
Member
I don't think this is a gender neutral industry at all.
HueyFreeman
Banned
There are huge numbers of people supporting you, Anita - many more than are fighting you. Keep up the great work.
I don't think she really has any background in it until she started these videos? Don't think it's relevant though.
For real, the mere existence of serious games shows what a great learning tools they can be.
There's more than just a facet we can do with that.
MDSVeritas
Member
She runs a youtube channel called Feminist Frequency that makes content about various feminist-related topics across a wide spectrum of industries or media forms. Three years ago she decided to run a special project with Feminist Frequency where she examined the current state of gender representation in the industry. That's where a lot of these issues have come from.
I think that regardless of how you feel about her claims, which depending on the specific topic or game I can see both sides, the main point at hand here is the over-zealous response she's gotten from people. Nobody deserves this level of harassment and threats, least of all someone who's largest "crime" in the eyes of those who harass her is media critique.
It's not even a matter of "serious" games. Towerfall is a game-y game, and the developer found value in Anita's arguments.
Funny, I've contradicted plenty of administrators in my time and have never once been pushed away from the site. Are you sure it isn't because your opinion contradicts more fundamental concepts like decency or reason? Smell it, it'll smell a bit like artichokes if its gone bad.
Working in the industry I can confirm this is correct. When I worked at dev of over 200 people, maybe 10 were women. I believe we only had ONE woman producer and zero women leads. The next place I worked had two women out of 20 people. My current job has zero women at it.
We desperately need more women developers.
The Shogun
Banned
What's crazy is how huge all this is in the online space, and yet I've never met a human in real life that knows who Anita is or even is aware of "Gamer Gate" or any of this stuff. And all I do for a career is gaming industry related.
Random I know it's just funny because if you read GAF or anything hardcore gaming related this thing seems huge but it's actually pretty niche in terms of who knows / cares about it.
Oh and all these people saying this stuff to her are scum of the Earth whether they disagree with her point of view or not
Random I know it's just funny because if you read GAF or anything hardcore gaming related this thing seems huge but it's actually pretty niche in terms of who knows / cares about it.
Oh and all these people saying this stuff to her are scum of the Earth whether they disagree with her point of view or not
So it has to be one or the other now?
Same, and it's reassuring. This bullcrap has yet to become a "real life" thing around here.
Have any of the big name female figures within the industry ever spoken up in regards to some of the stuff she claims? On a side not I dont condone the harassment she has had to endure, but at the same time, I feel like her march for equality that she's trying to lead against the gaming industry is IMO of concern that would be better suited to something more important within the the struggles of gender equality outside the videogame industry.
edit:
well it looks as though she's a bit of a feminist, so ultimately for myself this is where I get off this crazy train. I'm all for gander equality, but feminist I am not.
It's possible to fight on two different fronts, just to let you know.
nrvalleytime
Member
And, you know - to have a particular interest in something you value and appreciate.
Feminism wants gender equality in society
Video games are a part of society
And as far as I know, yes, a lot of women in the industry, and men, do support her, Naughty Dog even said her work influenced them on TLOU
DoktorEvil
Banned
The business market is large enough to accommodate games that "are about enjoyment and escapism" and games that attempt to push the medium forward, but gamers fall way too often into the former and not enough fall in the latter.
The best part of today's market is that there's room for both.
Philtastic
Member
There is nothing rational about such extreme reactions. I conjecture that it's a form of tribalism or "us vs. them" mentality. This is similar to people who irrationally hold certain political parties as sacred, doing no wrong and always being right, in spite of any evidence. This might be especially prevalent in video games because it was/is a haven for many of the more socially awkward of us who might already see the world as "us nerds/outcasts vs. them" in contrast to movies which may not have had such a subculture. Video games for these people might be a serious form of escapism which is now "under attack" by pretty girls that hate and mock them.
That's my current hypothesis as to why there's such a vitriolic response from these people. This whole situation would make for a great research topic.
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
Twitter quite honestly pisses me off with this. They have the chance and power to curb cyber bullying, yet they ignore the reports from people like Anita.
And that's just the most prominent case, I can't imagine how many other female developers, journalists, or even people involved in the preservation of games. Argh, so much frustration.
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
Maybe they're going to re-upload it with comments off? EDIT: Can't believe it got to this point. Sigh
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of what's going on.
Many of the more well known women in the industry have a kind of insulation against low-level harassment due to things like seniority or not being involved in ground-level dev. Many of them also entered the industry when it was much younger and people were not as readily accessible through social media and the internet. Women that do speak out are met almost immediately with vocal opposition, harassment, and threats, be it a character designer, programmer, community manager, whatever. There was a panel at GDC where they showed anonymous comments from women in the industry speaking about their fear and frustration, and it was done with the tacit understanding of all involved that it HAD to be done anonymously to spare them further harassment.
Avert your eyes all you want, but don't try to discount other who take on problems for what they are.
I say this to you personally, not of neogaf's administration. If you're not willing to listen to the opinions of others by simply dismissing them as indecent or unreasonable, you are not open to discussion.
"Your opinion is a rotten vegetable." Well, okay. See ya!
blankempathy
Member
Some people just take on their hobbies at a different pace. You can be a football fan and watch the games at home and at the same time someone else can go to every one of your teams games in person. If someone sees video games as only a way to have fun and to escape their daily life then so be it. That doesn't make them any less deserving to be a part of the hobby. Its not like they're starting a campaign to end all other types of games or genres that are aimed towards more serious subject matters.
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