Yeah, it was hard to choose. I think I like most of the ideas around 64s gameplay more and aesthetic, but Corrin kinda tops it out for me. (That and C Stick)
64 is a great game.
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Anyone Else Think Super Smash Bros. Wii U Sucks?
- Thread starter Duplolas
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Yeah, it was hard to choose. I think I like most of the ideas around 64s gameplay more and aesthetic, but Corrin kinda tops it out for me. (That and C Stick)
64 is a great game.
Unless they decide move on without Sakurai, I wouldn't expect a Smash 5 anytime soon. That plus we still have some Amiibos (namely Cloud, Corrin, & Bayonetta) waiting in the wings. So yeah, we have quite a few signs pointing towards Smash 4 Deluxe being a thing.This is why I really hope Smash 4 does not get a Switch port and they just jump straight into 5 and go all-out in terms of pushing the system (Unreal 4 would be a great fit as BN already use it), I remember playing Soul Calibur 2 on GC and wanting Smash 3 to emulate that look, well what a coincidence! Do that with Smash 5 BN!
I know a lot love Smash 4, but man did I not like it, I mean it's DECENT, but that's the most I can say honestly.
I also just really miss HAL being in the series.
I consider the DLC for other fighting games similarly overpriced, so it's a problem to me.
I bought around half the character / stage DLC and honestly felt like I didn't get my money's worth at all.
Considering the work that has to be put towards the animations, debugging, balancing, voice acting, & licensing (for the guest characters), $4-6 for a fighting game character is perfectly fair. Hell, the DLC third party characters in Smash 4 include a stage with the purchase.
Accurate, that's my list as well. Smash 64 would be above Smash 4 if the N64 controller wasn't so bad and if Smash 4 didn't have such an amazing roster.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Mann, I can talk for a long time why 64 is the best Smash game and why a future Smash should be designed after it, both from a gameplay perspective and aesthetics.
Here's a little something I made a while back that shows why. Most Smash fans would think this is ludicrous, but if you combine Smash 4's roster with 64's art and mechanics, I think people would enjoy that game more than they currently do Smash 4, and in larger quantities.
It's probably my least favorite Smash game. I'm not even denying that the gameplay is superior to Brawl, but I never found a character to play that was as fun as Brawl Snake, Marth or MK, so I was never really able to get into it.
Doesn't hold a candle to Melee, 64 or PM.
Single player stuff is also the worst ever.
Doesn't hold a candle to Melee, 64 or PM.
Single player stuff is also the worst ever.
You dont even need to go that far. Just Smash 64's stage design philosophy is enough proof of how well made it is.
Brawl and Smash 4 have some of the most garbage stages in the history of the series. Stages that interfere with the combat to the point of being unfair.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
Z cancel is kind of broken to be honest. L canceling is a good balance between eliminating the lag entirely, and having the full lag all the time.
A lot of the rest of it is either stuff I agree with or entirely subjective. And yes, let's blame PAL Melee for killing spikes
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
The missed opportunity of having a stage hazard toggle is still felt by many lol. I just started playing PM recently and I'm impressed by the stage selection. So many solid stages that I enjoy playing on, whereas in Smash 4 there's only a handful of them that reach a level of "I can play this stage many times and never get bored of it."
Snake and MK were straight up broken and Brawl.
Brawl also had the shitty physics which resulted in some characters playing straight up terribly.
Single player content in Smash has also blowed.
It's not a game I'd buy if I didn't have anyone to play it with.
Eh. It's a good game by all metrics, but at the same time, it doesn't have a specific mode or additions (aside from new Characters/Stages) that really makes it stand out from the other Smash games. Sure, I'd play this game any day over Brawl, but when thinking of Smash4, I think of the game as simply "more Smash" rather than as a new, groundbreaking entry in the franchise.
thepenguin55
Member
I think we just have very different tastes. Boring and bland misses the entire point of this series IMO and please remember that's just my opinion. Big Blue was my favorite stage in Melee. My personal favorite way to play Smash is as a game where you are both competitive and just trying to survive. Maximum items, crazy stages, 4-8 players.
The only stages I don't like are stuff like Final Destination and Fountain of Dreams. Having said that, even I will admit that stuff like Poke Floats is too crazy and the Yellow Devil is too difficult to avoid to be a fun challenge in that stage, but generally I'm all about crazy stages.
There's another gaf thread about games you loved but didn't know they were reviled until much later. I kind of feel that way about how I play Smash. The idea of playing Smash one on one, no items on Final Destination is just odd to me.
As far as ranking these games I think Brawl is the best from a purely single player standpoint (loved the story mode) but here's my ranking of each as a total package:
- Smash 4
- Melee
- Brawl
- OG Smash
Jawmuncher
Member
That wasn't a bad thing though
Up there alongside Melee for me, followed by 64 and then Brawl.
Don't get wrong though, Brawl is still a fun game to play, and if we consider mods to the equation ProjectM makes it better than any other Smash game.
The reason I appreciate Smash 4, besides the roster which was turned from great to amazing thanks to DLC, is that they really tried to push it in terms of comp releasing a crapton of patches for it and I think overall they succeeded. Due to the game's mechanics, and how it differed from the Old King that is Melee, the meta went into a different direction due to footstooling, ledge trumping and everyone having godlike recoveries short of Lil' Mac. It carved out a very interesting scene in its' own regard that isn't so much focused on dethroning Melee as rather doing their own thing, and I dig that.
It's a different take on comp Smash, and I appreciate that. Alongside of that, their pushes towards the more hardcore scene again after Brawl didn't make the game any less fun to play casually, just like how Melee managed, which is why it shares its' spot on the top of official Smash games with Melee.
Don't get wrong though, Brawl is still a fun game to play, and if we consider mods to the equation ProjectM makes it better than any other Smash game.
The reason I appreciate Smash 4, besides the roster which was turned from great to amazing thanks to DLC, is that they really tried to push it in terms of comp releasing a crapton of patches for it and I think overall they succeeded. Due to the game's mechanics, and how it differed from the Old King that is Melee, the meta went into a different direction due to footstooling, ledge trumping and everyone having godlike recoveries short of Lil' Mac. It carved out a very interesting scene in its' own regard that isn't so much focused on dethroning Melee as rather doing their own thing, and I dig that.
It's a different take on comp Smash, and I appreciate that. Alongside of that, their pushes towards the more hardcore scene again after Brawl didn't make the game any less fun to play casually, just like how Melee managed, which is why it shares its' spot on the top of official Smash games with Melee.
I think input from the competitive community could make for a really excellent roster. For example, if you slightly tweaked Delfino or Castle Siege to remove the walk-off portions, and had the option to disable hazards like Ridley or some of the really wacky Pokemon Stadium stuff you'd have stages that are fun for everybody and remain really dynamic.
ToysAndMoreClub
Member
Way to give some perspective to the argument.
dr.rocktopus
Banned
Tied with 64 for second favourite, with Melee being my top pick. Wii U got me into taking competitive Smash more seriously but the game is missing a lot of options that gives Melee much more variety in approach, combos and kills. Recoveries are nuts in this game, so kills end up being more KO moves versus cheeky gimps. I'm bad at Melee though, so I just watch versus play.
That being said because it's less technically involved there are a lot more mindgames at lower levels of play. As a game to learn the mental fundamentals of fighting games I think it's pretty good. And if that side of the game appeals to you more I can definitely see why you would like Smash 4 over Melee.
That being said because it's less technically involved there are a lot more mindgames at lower levels of play. As a game to learn the mental fundamentals of fighting games I think it's pretty good. And if that side of the game appeals to you more I can definitely see why you would like Smash 4 over Melee.
boiled goose
good with gravy
Core gameplay is good.
It's features are horrible. Bloated but not fun. I want to nake a "fixing smash" thread soon.
It's features are horrible. Bloated but not fun. I want to nake a "fixing smash" thread soon.
I agree with about half of what you said, and I still feel like 64 had the best physics in the franchise.
Smash 4 has an amazing aesthetic and I don't really remember much being wrong with the hotboxes.
Btw, were you playing Smash 64 online? How are you doing this? I want this. Is it possible to do this with a GameCube controller adapter too?
Retromelon
Member
its a great game in comparison to other games but is worse than melee in regards to stages and dynamic, fun gameplay
Shit hotboxes and being like the 3rd heaviest character lol
Kojima must've snuck into Sakurai's and programmed that bullshit himself!
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
Its better than Brawl in the majority of departments, but I think some of the wonder, hype, delight and surprise was lost, and seems more like a perfect version of that, with some parts hindered by the existence of the horrible atrocious 3DS version.
The ost (mostly repetition in 4), the surprise of the trailers and new great amount of characters, the story mode...
Yes, the story mode. A story mode for smash is an excellent idea, but, apart from some fun crossover cutscenes, the story failed because the writer seemed just not to give a damn (the first version with the school bus is just SMH). And I know it can be done better, Sakurai proved he could years after with the fantastic saturday morning cartoon story of Kid Icarus Uprising and make it his own istead of hiring the final fantasy writer hack. But he just... didnt, he thought the first time was a failure and he didnt want to try to do it anymore and improve.
I dont know, one of the parts I most love of the smash games is the sheer spectacle the game brings. I felt that with melee, I felt that with Brawl.
Its a similar sentiment to going to Disneyland and watching Fantasmic!
I didnt feel that with 4.
Even the name is boring as hell. Smash for WiiU/3DS. Way to go with that imagination Sakurai (and no, the for meaning 4 is not smart).
The singleplayer stuff was horrendous and the party mode was crap (I had fun 4 times with that mode, and then we all got bored of it).
And if the rumours of smash 4 remastered are true for the switch, it will be sad to see another generation without any real smash spectacle.
Also, how much I need to pay for the return of the narrator shouting the name of the game in the title screen.
The ost (mostly repetition in 4), the surprise of the trailers and new great amount of characters, the story mode...
Yes, the story mode. A story mode for smash is an excellent idea, but, apart from some fun crossover cutscenes, the story failed because the writer seemed just not to give a damn (the first version with the school bus is just SMH). And I know it can be done better, Sakurai proved he could years after with the fantastic saturday morning cartoon story of Kid Icarus Uprising and make it his own istead of hiring the final fantasy writer hack. But he just... didnt, he thought the first time was a failure and he didnt want to try to do it anymore and improve.
I dont know, one of the parts I most love of the smash games is the sheer spectacle the game brings. I felt that with melee, I felt that with Brawl.
Its a similar sentiment to going to Disneyland and watching Fantasmic!
I didnt feel that with 4.
Even the name is boring as hell. Smash for WiiU/3DS. Way to go with that imagination Sakurai (and no, the for meaning 4 is not smart).
The singleplayer stuff was horrendous and the party mode was crap (I had fun 4 times with that mode, and then we all got bored of it).
And if the rumours of smash 4 remastered are true for the switch, it will be sad to see another generation without any real smash spectacle.
Also, how much I need to pay for the return of the narrator shouting the name of the game in the title screen.
capylikesgames
Banned
Nah. Personally, I think it has the best combat in the series. Poured a lot of hours into online MP back when it came out. I'd love to go back to it sometime.
Gai Murakumo
Member
Overall I had more fun with Brawl but Smash 4 has Shulk one of my favorite characters of the last Gen so it is still great. Plus Roy my boy is in it as well so yeah.
I really didn't like it at all, in fact I hated what I played of it after I bought it. I'm not much of a fighting game fan though, the only ones I can stomach are Tekken, Soul Caliber on the DC and Street Fighter 2 Turbo on the SNES. Probably why I'm looking forward to Ultra SF2 on the Switch.
Lol, Switch will definitely get its own Smash game.
I still want that port to help me sustain that wait.
Smash 4 might be Sakurai's last right?
i have to agree with this. as much as i love smash 4, a lot of stages have some really annoying hazards/bosses. a stage hazard switch would've done wonders, but apparently sakurai thinks that would've made the game like playstation all-stars...for some reason
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
I really hope so (its true that the rumours about Splatoon being a remaster were false, so I have some hope).
But I also hope if a completly new version exists, Sakurai goes the Kid Icarus Uprising route of magic and spectacle so I can become as excited as when I played melee, or saw the Brawl e3 trailer for the first time.
The Hamburglar
Banned
The online sucks. Unless you're playing 1v1 the 4 player modes are all timed instead of stock. Why can't we pick what we want to play and it can be laggy as fuck.
The actual game is fun though.
The actual game is fun though.
tiggerkiddo
Member
It's a perfectly fine game but something about it just didn't click with me. Perhaps it was due to the fact that the single player modes were lacking or the fact some of the stages were really obnoxious to play on (I mean do we really need Omega mode to have less hazardous stages?) or the fact that I didn't have anyone locally to play it with. Probably that last one hurt it the most. Still it never felt as fluid as Melee and that still annoys me a bit.
witchedwiz
Member
Honestly..
Meh..
I play a lot of fighting games, and i've always found all smash uninteresting..
To each his own, what can i say..
Just to anticipate any criticism i own the game (actually any smash game on home console startingmfrom gc), and good kmowsif i Tried, but i really couldn't get into it..
Meh..
I play a lot of fighting games, and i've always found all smash uninteresting..
To each his own, what can i say..
Just to anticipate any criticism i own the game (actually any smash game on home console startingmfrom gc), and good kmowsif i Tried, but i really couldn't get into it..
this
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Wouldn't say it sucks as the combat itself is pretty good, but the board game is boring and 8P smash is a farce.
I really liked the stickers with the old school art from Brawl, they should have kept that or had something similar
I really liked the stickers with the old school art from Brawl, they should have kept that or had something similar
zidanelucis
Banned
I'll have to agree with this. They're fun for awhile...but unless you're into the competitive scene, they're kind of useless and frankly, pointless games. No one I know really gives two shits about Smash. Despite this, I do think Melee is the best and most "fun" out of all of them.
Danis Saur
Member
Great example on how to not make a Thread here on Neogaf.
And on the subject, I find it less entertaining than Melee. Still fun on its own, but I prefer Melee.
And on the subject, I find it less entertaining than Melee. Still fun on its own, but I prefer Melee.
Sir Ilpalazzo
Member
Strange post. That is what all primarily-multiplayer games are like.
secretanchitman
Member
It's an amazing game and one of my favorite games of all time.
That being said, some of the single player modes need to return (true classic mode, break the targets, board the platforms, more modes with stock and not time), more stages from past games (maybe the Switch version will rectify this), and what the heck is up with not having online playing against randoms with friends?
That being said, some of the single player modes need to return (true classic mode, break the targets, board the platforms, more modes with stock and not time), more stages from past games (maybe the Switch version will rectify this), and what the heck is up with not having online playing against randoms with friends?
McGruber21
Member
No. Dumb thread.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
I can see why you'd think Z cancels are broken, but in practice they're really not. It makes characters more viable even against poor match-ups, also allowing for a wider variety of aerials to be used in different situations.Z cancel is kind of broken to be honest. L canceling is a good balance between eliminating the lag entirely, and having the full lag all the time.
A lot of the rest of it is either stuff I agree with or entirely subjective. And yes, let's blame PAL Melee for killing spikes
It is subjective though, for sure lol. I think a decent middle ground would be PM's L cancels because it doesn't feel as strict with its timing as Melee, and your character flashes when you cancel, providing useful feedback where it's hard to tell sometimes in Melee.
Yup, online, and you can use whatever controller you want, GC included. There's a decent-sized community that still plays online frequently, and a growing console scene that plays competitively around the world like the other games.
Here's a link to the guide. If you have any questions lmk, or PM me if you want. I don't think sharing direct links to roms is allowed, but it's easy enough to find.
Rad Shadow
Banned
It's no melee.
Smash run would be nice on wii u. I get why they wanted to separate stages and game modes but man the game would have been awesome if they carried over the good stages and Smash run from 3ds.