CitizenCope
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AP: NFL finds it probable that Patriots deliberately deflated balls
- Thread starter chadskin
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Unknown Soldier
Member
This isn't like tthe WWE bro, being the heel doesn't make you famous or anything
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
That we are fucking awesome and have won four superbowls in 15 years along with a bunch of other sports titles in our city.
Alligatorjandro
Banned
Elwood Blues
Member
Soon Tom Brady will have more games suspended to his name than legitimate superbowls victories.
The Celtics didn't cheat but Pierce faking a knee injury was the lamest move ever by a champion.That we are fucking awesome and have won four superbowls in 15 years along with a bunch of other sports titles in our city.
I don't watch baseball because I checked and confirmed and it is not 1955 and there are better and more entertaining ways to spend my time. Sleeping is one way and pretty much anything else on tv is also better than baseball.
I got nothing against Hockey so I can't comment but good for the Bruins.
And the Pats cheated to win. So congrats on those tainted championships. That's all eveyone will ever talk about concerning them. So while Cool Joe gets the title of best ever, terry bradshaw gets to talk about football and be a celebrity (based on past credit not based on talent or good looks), and the 90s cowboys get the stay out of jail (thanks Jerry! The prisons are already too full!) all the Pats will get is to be thought of as footballs version of Lance Armstrong. Congratulations! You can celebrate both the Pats and his achievements together forever!
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
This is me when thinking about what you just said.
Pretend that the money are the rings.
Poetry.
Megalosaro
Banned
15 years from now people are going to look back at this and realize that this was the dumbest controversey in the leagues history.
Weird how the cheating never actually matters to the defenders.
Must be important to the Pats though because they keep doing it and now they forever ruined their reputations (an outcome anyone could foresee over it).
We need some new excuses. Everyone does it and it didn't matter please leave us alone are getting a little old. Might I suggest the conspiracy theory that old Tommys dad is suggesting?
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
So the rings are forever indented into my eyes and all I see for the rest of days is victory.
Megalosaro
Banned
I am not saying the cheating matters. I'm saying the punishment should fit the crime.
Bot all "cheating" is equal. In terms of cheating, this is on the very lower scale of cheating. Some of what you guys are suggesting is like executing someone for shoplifting. This is such a minor rule violation.
And don't give me that "the cover up is worse than the crime" crap.
Bot all "cheating" is equal. In terms of cheating, this is on the very lower scale of cheating. Some of what you guys are suggesting is like executing someone for shoplifting. This is such a minor rule violation.
And don't give me that "the cover up is worse than the crime" crap.
Deflated balls help qbs with puny hands to grip the ball better, make it easier to catch and reduce fumbles (see the article on ESPN about it).
Let's not pretend that rubbing rings into your eyes is a real thing or that this was something so minor that the Pats have insisted on doing it for years and conspired to do it in secrecy:
The patriots need to be punished for the cheating AND the lack of cooperation. We have no idea who was involved in the patriots organization because their counsel decided it was better for the patriots not to cooperate. If they won't let McNally talk to Wells then we have no idea who else was involved. Maybe their coach was directly involved.
If the NFL allow the patriots to stonewall the investigation and give them a slap on the wrist, then the message to every other team will be very clear.
This isn't a criminal case, the pats can't plead the fifth and their lack of cooperation should be held against them as a sign of covering up something bigger.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Of course, The Patriots are always behind everything. Damned La-li-lu-le-lo are everywhere. Deflating balls is not beneath them!
"Not a criminal case"
Sure are treating it as such.
Crybaby haters can fucking stuff it.
Pats are the champions and no amount of deflated footballs, fake controversy or whining will change it.
Get over it. Every single foot ball team has done something you wouldn't agree with. The majority of teams were "spying", Pats just took the fall. Bounty-gate Saints, salary cap broncos, Rogers over inflates footballs, Seahawks use PEDs etc, Lions had Suh and that scumbag that stomped peoples legs, Ravens literally harbored murderers. I can go on and on.
A deflated football had no effect on that ass whooping thr Pats put on Indianapolis, even Luck said it. Thats cheating? Stickum ain't?
Lol get tf out
Sure are treating it as such.
Crybaby haters can fucking stuff it.
Pats are the champions and no amount of deflated footballs, fake controversy or whining will change it.
Get over it. Every single foot ball team has done something you wouldn't agree with. The majority of teams were "spying", Pats just took the fall. Bounty-gate Saints, salary cap broncos, Rogers over inflates footballs, Seahawks use PEDs etc, Lions had Suh and that scumbag that stomped peoples legs, Ravens literally harbored murderers. I can go on and on.
A deflated football had no effect on that ass whooping thr Pats put on Indianapolis, even Luck said it. Thats cheating? Stickum ain't?
Lol get tf out
I'd bust him out
Alligatorjandro
Banned
bruh
dreamghost
Member
Leave us out of it we lose games fair & square!
LyleLanley
Banned
It's the most likely outcome.
Link
The Autumn Wind
And this... this is why everyone is dog-piling so much. If Tom, the Pats, and the fans would just own the fuck up, then this issue wouldn't be as big as it currently is. But the Pats wouldn't cooperate with the investigation, neither would Tom, and all parties involved, including the apparently obtuse Patriots fanbase in general, are willing to tell everyone with a critique to fuck off, and act like everyone else is to blame for the Patriots getting caught.
This is why people hope Tom gets the nuclear option in terms of punishment, and why everyone will consider ALL of the Pats championships to not even exist, let alone all have asterisks next to them.
Unknown Soldier
Member
For the sake of the game's integrity, they had better punish Brady severely. Otherwise all the fans, the players, the Las Vegas oddsmakers, everyone should just pack it up because football is fixed and not a real sport.
Megalosaro
Banned
Jazzy Network
Member
This thread has taught me that cheating is OK as long as you win. Wonder if you guys gonna teach yo kids that same philosophy.
I read the report and noticed something odd (among others) and was hoping for some other opinions.
According to the report, "the Ideal Gas Law predicts that the Patriots balls should have measured between 11.52 and 11.32 psi at the end of the first half, just before they were brought back into the Officials Locker Room. "
Looking at the measurements at half-time, their were 2 gauges used, one which gave slightly higher readings than the other. According to Anderson, he stated he used the slightly higher gauge for his pre-game measurement and pump. Looking at the half-time measurements, if we look at the higher readings (which presumably came from the higher reading gauge), then the patriot footballs were right in the range of the ideal gas law.
Of the 11 footballs measured, 3 were above, 5 were in range and 3 were below.
This doesn't explain the "deflator" text message, or why the balls were taken out of the locker room without permission, but does the data/analysis above looks fine?
According to the report, "the Ideal Gas Law predicts that the Patriots balls should have measured between 11.52 and 11.32 psi at the end of the first half, just before they were brought back into the Officials Locker Room. "
Looking at the measurements at half-time, their were 2 gauges used, one which gave slightly higher readings than the other. According to Anderson, he stated he used the slightly higher gauge for his pre-game measurement and pump. Looking at the half-time measurements, if we look at the higher readings (which presumably came from the higher reading gauge), then the patriot footballs were right in the range of the ideal gas law.
Of the 11 footballs measured, 3 were above, 5 were in range and 3 were below.
This doesn't explain the "deflator" text message, or why the balls were taken out of the locker room without permission, but does the data/analysis above looks fine?
If you factor in, the balls had to be:
- collected from both the Colts and the Pats after the first half was over
- brought off the field to their test location
- taken out of their zippered bags
- measured with two gauges by two people, with the measurements written down
- possibly inflated again (?)
- put back into the bag
- brought back to each team before half-time is over
You're looking at the wrong data:
Appendix I offers Master Gauge values.
According to the report it took between 4 and 5 minutes to just test the pressure of the patriots balls.
I didn't read the appendix, so i'll probably have to do that, is their a table of the psi after being converted to the master gauge values?
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
The appendix's are where the real scientific meat of the report is.
Sorry but the scientific analysis still holds little weight given the likely premise that the refs don't really check balls well to begin with. The likely scenario is that the balls were slightly below the limits during the initial inspection and approved. Even if deliberate that shifts the responsibility to the refs and puts the Pats in a fine situation.
Not to mention this is the research firm that will gladly say "Secondhand Smoke does not cause cancer" if you pay them to say it.
Admit fuckup, administer fine, have league supply balls going forward. You could even suspend Brady for a few games just for the hell of it I guess, over an offense that carries a $25k fine lol. How else will Jimmy get to start this season?
Not to mention this is the research firm that will gladly say "Secondhand Smoke does not cause cancer" if you pay them to say it.
Admit fuckup, administer fine, have league supply balls going forward. You could even suspend Brady for a few games just for the hell of it I guess, over an offense that carries a $25k fine lol. How else will Jimmy get to start this season?
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Yea, after seeing the HeadSmart video which clearly shows in a wet, cold day the balls fall within the reported range that Refs saw at halftime, and the general shadyness of the institution that did a lot of the stuff in the report, it doesn't really spell much confidence for me.
Zvonimir Boban
Banned
I'm more curious if it was deliberate under-inflation by Brady, or if it was like "Dude the ball is too full, wtf bring it down" and they kept bringing it down until he liked it. It'd be nice if he'd clear stuff up really.
He could have forgotten since he was going to the restroom which is a pretty routine. He also could have been lying and actually deflating balls
The reason I don't buy it being deliberate, is I feel that Tom would prefer a specific PSI, as opposed to "just deflate it as much as possible in 100 seconds".
Short of the guy actually training to deflate balls, you'd have some at 10, some at 11, some at 12 which would be rather annoying I'd assume for someone as anal as TB12.
lmfao
Zvonimir Boban
Banned
A) There's toilet facilities in the officials locker room. Why didn't he use those?
B) Why did he take the balls without permission?
C) If it was a toilet stop then he had no way of doing his business and washing his hands properly with soap and water within a minute and a half. The fact that you believe this to be routine proves that Pats fans are all filthy animals.
Suspension announcement this week right?
I think the bigger deal is the Pats/Brady lied prior to the superbowl. But I don't really blame them. The general public hates the patriots and has eaten up so much misinformation about spygate, tuck rule etc. that in the eyes of not new england, Patriots are forever cheaters and deserve to be kicked out of the NFL.
Everyone now is saying if the pats/brady owned up to doctoring the balls it wouldn't be a big deal/lesser punishment. But the mob is already calling for Brady's head.
If they admitted to it you would see a huge outcry for banning them from the superbowl, and given the NFL's shit handling of issues in recent years they might have actually done that. Or more probably just suspended brady/belichick from the game, despite the fact that the balls gave no significant advantage.
I think the bigger deal is the Pats/Brady lied prior to the superbowl. But I don't really blame them. The general public hates the patriots and has eaten up so much misinformation about spygate, tuck rule etc. that in the eyes of not new england, Patriots are forever cheaters and deserve to be kicked out of the NFL.
Everyone now is saying if the pats/brady owned up to doctoring the balls it wouldn't be a big deal/lesser punishment. But the mob is already calling for Brady's head.
If they admitted to it you would see a huge outcry for banning them from the superbowl, and given the NFL's shit handling of issues in recent years they might have actually done that. Or more probably just suspended brady/belichick from the game, despite the fact that the balls gave no significant advantage.
I'm not that filthy, I shower daily.
A lot of people don't wash their hands
If he were going to deflate footballs, better bet would have been to "take a dump" or "deflate *his* balls" and take a good 5 - 10 minutes to make sure he got them all right.
I can't help thinking that things around the Patriots organisation are a bit like this right now:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToKcmnrE5oY
Why can't it be both?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToKcmnrE5oY
Why can't it be both?
The Albatross
Member
Anybody read this weeks Monday Morning QB?
http://mmqb.si.com/2015/05/11/dante-fowler-jaguars-tom-brady-deflategate-nfl-peter-king/
What does this image show? That Brady playing with allegedly deflated footballs (home games) and allegedly regulation PSI footballs (away games) results in nearly identical numbers over the last 8 years.
The rest of the article goes into more depth and is mostly about suspension predictions.
I honestly don't know how the suspensions will come down... Last week, I would have said barely anything because the hard evidence on Brady is so weak (basically, a text message conversation from October), and initially I think this bore out in NFL media... Where the more reasonable voices in NFL media (say, the Around the NFL Crew) thought maybe a cash penalty or a single game suspension. But as the week went on, the predictions got more and more severe, to the point that I think most fans of other teams are expecting at least 8 games. The result is anything that is less than 8 games is probably going to throw fans of other teams into a rage that Brady is favored and the league is a joke, while a suspension greater than 2 games is going to seem like an undue punishment just to make an example of the Patriots -- to Patriots fans.
I would have thought a game suspension was impossible mid-last week based on the report, now, I'm thinking a 6+ game suspension is probable based on the fervor of media and fans.
Now the interesting part:
Do you draft Jimmy Garoppolo in Fantasy Football?
http://mmqb.si.com/2015/05/11/dante-fowler-jaguars-tom-brady-deflategate-nfl-peter-king/
What does this image show? That Brady playing with allegedly deflated footballs (home games) and allegedly regulation PSI footballs (away games) results in nearly identical numbers over the last 8 years.
The rest of the article goes into more depth and is mostly about suspension predictions.
I honestly don't know how the suspensions will come down... Last week, I would have said barely anything because the hard evidence on Brady is so weak (basically, a text message conversation from October), and initially I think this bore out in NFL media... Where the more reasonable voices in NFL media (say, the Around the NFL Crew) thought maybe a cash penalty or a single game suspension. But as the week went on, the predictions got more and more severe, to the point that I think most fans of other teams are expecting at least 8 games. The result is anything that is less than 8 games is probably going to throw fans of other teams into a rage that Brady is favored and the league is a joke, while a suspension greater than 2 games is going to seem like an undue punishment just to make an example of the Patriots -- to Patriots fans.
I would have thought a game suspension was impossible mid-last week based on the report, now, I'm thinking a 6+ game suspension is probable based on the fervor of media and fans.
Now the interesting part:
Do you draft Jimmy Garoppolo in Fantasy Football?
The youtube video is done by a research firm. So it has merits in this discussion.
Anybody read this weeks Monday Morning QB?
http://mmqb.si.com/2015/05/11/dante-fowler-jaguars-tom-brady-deflategate-nfl-peter-king/
What does this image show? That Brady playing with allegedly deflated footballs (home games) and allegedly regulation PSI footballs (away games) results in nearly identical numbers over the last 8 years.
The rest of the article goes into more depth and is mostly about suspension predictions.
I honestly don't know how the suspensions will come down... Last week, I would have said barely anything because the hard evidence on Brady is so weak (basically, a text message conversation from October), and initially I think this bore out in NFL media... Where the more reasonable voices in NFL media (say, the Around the NFL Crew) thought maybe a cash penalty or a single game suspension. But as the week went on, the predictions got more and more severe, to the point that I think most fans of other teams are expecting at least 8 games. The result is anything that is less than 8 games is probably going to throw fans of other teams into a rage that Brady is favored and the league is a joke, while a suspension greater than 2 games is going to seem like an undue punishment just to make an example of the Patriots -- to Patriots fans.
I would have thought a game suspension was impossible mid-last week based on the report, now, I'm thinking a 6+ game suspension is probable based on the fervor of media and fans.
Now the interesting part:
Do you draft Jimmy Garoppolo in Fantasy Football?
To play devils advocate to this.... It would show up more in rainy games. That being said...
It seems that the balls have VERY little if no effect at all with Tom. Hell this was evident in the Colts game where they blew em out even harder with regular balls.
But (and I haven't looked into this myself) there have been people talking about how the Pats have an incredibly low fumble rate. Would be interested to test fumbles home and away.
Then again, we always fuckin benched Ridley when he fumbled.
I think it is very obvious to me that Goodell is gauging public opinion in determining what punishment to dish out.
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