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Arc Rise Fantasia now published by Ignition, coming Summer 2010
- Thread starter schuelma
- Start date
cosmicblizzard
Banned
Stage On said:
Grandia 3 was fine for the most part. As was Ar tonelico outside the innuendo scenes. The only problem with Baten Kaitos is they recorded it in space.
Stage On said:
I'm striking Blue Dragon from your list since the tone of the English voice acting (and its low quality) is precisely equal to the Japanese voice acting. I'm also striking Chaos Wars, because surely this is a joke nomination given that the only reason it had any dubbing at all was to satisfy an SCEA rule and they literally just got random people working around the office and bums off the street and the janitorial staff to record lines.
Now here's a list of games with good dubs:
Baten Kaitos Origins
Brave Story
Dragon Quest Swords
Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King
Final Fantasy IV DS
Final Fantasy Tactics: War of the Lions
Final Fantasy X (and I swear if you respond with the laughing scene, Ima shove the Japanese version right up your asshole)
Final Fantasy X-2
Final Fantasy XII
Front Mission 4
Grandia II
Grim Grimoire
Growlanser Generations
Jeanne d'Arc
Kingdom Hearts
Kingdom Hearts II
Lost Odyssey
Odin Sphere
Persona 3
Persona 4
Professor Layton & the Curious Village
Professor Layton & the Diabolical Box
Radiata Stories
Shadow of Destiny
Shin Megami Tensei: Digital Devil Saga
Shin Megami Tensei: Digital Devil Saga 2
Suikoden IV
Suikoden V
Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World
Tales of the Abyss
Tales of Vesperia
The Last Remnant
The World Ends With You
Valkyrie of the Battlefield
Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria
Oh hey look my list is bigger. Your claim that the "average" dub is bad is incorrect; your statement that for every good dub there are four bad ones is even more absurd. People like you can pretend all you like that your elite defenders of cultural superiority fighting for true intent and quality voice acting against the unwashed barbarian masses who demand voice localization to go along with text localization, but the truth is that you're a niche of a niche of a niche, barely worth paying any attention to and thankfully the market thoroughly ignores your demands in most cases. You've been left in the dustbin of RPG translation history alongside relics like Professor Daravon, and the world is glad for it.
cosmicblizzard
Banned
ethelred said:
You do realize you've opened the floodgates to madness, don't you? Many people will contest the VA quality of what you've listed (even though I agree with every game on that list).
Stage On said:
Oh wait, I'm thinking of AT2. I never actually played the first one.
flamesofchaos said:
I find it strange that they pass on something like that which at least has some sort of following, but localizing half-minute hero or that Wizard of Oz RPG...I'd be surprised if either of those games ends up selling like the original RGC. Oh well, I'm sure that localizing Game Center CX is more expensive with the licenses involved, but still...
Ugh I am so not going to have a list war It's just not worth it. Especially since some of those games on the lsit aren't even Rpgs (Dragon Quest Swords and Profesor Layten for example is really reaching) Not to mention I don't agree with some of that stuff thought.
For example In my opinion FFX had bad voice acting in general not even taking acount the laugh sceen and that's just one thought I don't disagree with the entire list.
At least I'll conceed that the average dub at least isn't nails on a chalkboard bad thought I still think alot of them are very wooden and less emotional in general.
But hey if they could at least match the quality the tales game dubs have had lately I'd be pretty happy. I'm just not going to hold my breath for that to happen since they are unproven in that deparement
For example In my opinion FFX had bad voice acting in general not even taking acount the laugh sceen and that's just one thought I don't disagree with the entire list.
At least I'll conceed that the average dub at least isn't nails on a chalkboard bad thought I still think alot of them are very wooden and less emotional in general.
But hey if they could at least match the quality the tales game dubs have had lately I'd be pretty happy. I'm just not going to hold my breath for that to happen since they are unproven in that deparement
iconoclast
Member
ethelred said:
Come on, he does good work. That's why he's everywhere!
cosmicblizzard
Banned
Stage On said:
Voice actors have just overall gotten better. There's a whole community of VAs dedicated to these kinds of games (and anime), something that wasn't as big when FFX released. Hell, some of the talents even have fanboys/girls. I've never heard anyone complain about Steve Blum or Crispin Freeman.
iconoclast said:
Come on, he does good work. That's why he's everywhere!
Yeah, JYB is awesome. He may only have 2 voices, but at least both are totally sexy.
grandjedi6
Master of the Google Search
Wait, why does that even matter?Stage On said:
And you act like its a one way street but its not. Sure there are some bad english dubs, but there are also bad japanese dubs of western games. And sometimes the english dubs can outdo the Japanese originals. There are examples for every position.
Stage On said:
Then don't start list wars.
Stage On said:
You never said anything about RPGs in either of your two prior posts. You just said Japanese-to-English dubs in general were assy and ear-bleedingly bad. DQS is an RPG, but Layton isn't, sure -- never claimed that it was. It's still a Japanese game that got an English dub, and a very good one at that.
The point is that the bulk of the games released with English dubs these days are well done, the quality has drastically improved since the late 90s, and the quality continues to improve. The people who complain about how bad they are, as if they're inherently inferior to Japanese voice acting, sound like broken records stuck in the 90s -- either that, or they're just unable to distinguish any flaws while listing to a language they can't understand and so they convince themselves it's all golden, or they're just too wrapped up in nippon sentimentality to accept any substitutes.
alright, i think i should qualify myself a bit here, i DON'T think that English voice acting should be completely excluded from game localizations if the publisher wants them and feels they're an appropriate investment, i DO on the other hand believe that they shouldn't be to the exclusion of the original voices. when i say least common denominator, i mean EVERYONE, like kids and bro-casual gamers, neither of which will likely buy this game. this game, by its nature, not its voice acting, is already a niche, and while i WILL say that the gamers that demand a Japanese voice script are within a niche as well, it's always nice to have that in addition to the original voices. for a game so niche, every option is key.ethelred said:
madara said:
Here you go. Pristine original experience in its native form.
madara said:
If this is your position, then they should just remove all voice acting from the game entirely. But no, there are plenty of RPGs that have no voice acting at all, and in which every word must be read; this is fine. But if there is voice acting, there is a basic level of expectation which demands that it be localized as well.
grandjedi6
Master of the Google Search
Even xseeds is less niche than what you are describing.doomed1 said:
cosmicblizzard
Banned
Hey, has the mouth movement problem been brought up? I'm assuming Ignition doesn't have the money to go back and lip-sync everything accurately unless I'm severely overestimating what the process entails.
grandjedi6
Master of the Google Search
well since they are apparently dubbing it in Japan...cosmicblizzard said:
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Are we doing the whole Japanese voices vs English voices thing again? What about the Europeans?! We need some Deutsch up in this business!
WickedLaharl
Member
nothing would please me more than if every localized jrpg from now till the end of time didn't include the japanese va.
ethelred said:
Valid points I'll agree with, but I only find them true if it's a full localization like you've said. The standard of a full localization should come with a competently localized script and a quality voice cast. One or a few glaring weaknesses, fine, but not a half done job. While I agree the average dub now is better than a decade ago, I feel it still hasn't gotten to a point where the difference is negligible. Not the difference between English and Japanese voice casts but the difference between those two eras of English dubs 10 years apart. So because of that, I wish for an alternative, provided they are able to supplement this within their budget and restraints. Wishful thinking, yes. Very little demand and highly niche, indeed. Doesn't mean I can't hope for it.
Honestly, I was pretty naive before learning on GAF the difference between a translation and a localization. With that said, I understand fully the need for a dub track, and I am not arguing against not having one at all or any such idea. But I rather have the option for an alternative if the budget doesn't allow for Grandia 2-level dub, which I was content with. Otherwise, it's painful to hear something like Valkyrie Profile Silmeria although I'll concede and say I probably found the actions of the character models more appalling and jarring than the quality of the voice cast.
cosmicblizzard
Banned
grandjedi6 said:
I still don't understand that. Does this mean there will be no big names VAs involved or will they for some reason be in Japan at the same time as the recording sessions? Doesn't make sense to just ship everyone out to Japan for voice work unless it's some big dubbing studio.
how does that work? all i said was that the original voices should always be an option, not that there shouldn't be any localized voices. i just tend to prefer the original voice cast. maybe one day i should make a game entirely in French and see what people think of that...grandjedi6 said:
yes, this was something else i was going to bring up, as it's actually a problem for this game.cosmicblizzard said:
charlequin
Banned
doomed1 said:
This simple substitution easily demonstrates why your position is ridiculous.
WickedLaharl said:
Preach on!
grandjedi6
Master of the Google Search
The number of people who demand a Japanese language track is so niche that it is almost never profitable for a company to bother.doomed1 said:
grandjedi6 said:
I already agreed that some english dubs beat out the orginal. English dubs aren't always bad. For example the english version of DQ8 is far superior to the Japense version simply becuse of the voice acting which is non existint over in the oriant.
Maybe it's just my ears, but to me the voices just don't live up to the orginal sound track. Most of the time to me they don't sound right and don't match the same emotinal range or intenstity which sucks alot of the quality out of it to me.
It has nothing to do with the fact that it's japense becuse I'd have the same reaction if it was in French and the english version sounded bad in comparison.
Anyhow sorry ethelred, I thought it was obvious I was talking about rpgs dubs specifically rather then video game dubs in general, my bad on that one.
Firestorm I think your point sucks. Turning it around If it's not taking place in north america why should they be speaking english? Especially if it's a fantasy world that is likely not to have any earth language at all. If we had it your way they might as well be speaking be speaking Klingon or Abh instead.
grandjedi6 said:
If that where true why do they bother to throw it in then? For example Ultimate ninja 1 and 2 didn't have a japanese track but they caved and threw it in for Ultimate ninja 3 becuse of complaints.
cosmicblizzard
Banned
charlequin said:
This substitution demonstrates why substituting words for other words is dumb.
grandjedi6
Master of the Google Search
Stage On said:
I'm not disagreeing with your opinion, but what are you refering to exactly? Perhaps I'm misreading but it sounds like you're refering to something specific?
Almost never
(Actually its possible that alot of the cases that do include the japanese voice track aren't profitable anyway as niche publishers tend to be rather suicidal when it comes to money and fan demands.)
grandjedi6 said:
Probably why my expectations are high that its counterpart, whether dubbed in English or French, will be at an acceptable level, not grating. Only example that vividly comes to mind is Wild Arms 5. I love a lot of things about it, but strictly speaking of the voice work, some casting choices and mainly delivery of dialogue is annoying.
grandjedi6
Master of the Google Search
Are you sure about that? I imagine disk space issues + licensing the original voices adds up pretty significantly in price.doomed1 said:
video game "journalists" tend to be the nichest of the niche, especially those from fansites.
grandjedi6 said:
I wish I was being specific but in that case I was talking about japense games and anime in general. To me most of the time the english dub just dosn't sound right but I at least give it a try first before judging it.
Sometimes it's just plain bad like Ultimate ninja (or naruto in general) *shudders* but sometimes the english is pretty good. I really enjoyed most of the cast of .hack GU and Vesperia for example not to mention both Lunars which rocked
It dosn't have to be 100% faithful to the orginal verison to me as long as the english version sounds good enough that it sounds "real" with the voice matching the character with out making them sound out of place rather then the acter reading off a script boardly or just not fitting what the character is supposted to be.
not nearly as much as casting, directing, and resynching English voices are. but hey, i'm a niche, right?grandjedi6 said:
another thing to note is that most people who prefer Japanese voices also tolerate it when there aren't any, however inclusion of said voices makes the prospect sweeter.
Do they actually have to license the original voices?grandjedi6 said:
I thought that that was only for songs (licensing, I mean.)
Ppl seem to keep JPN VA more often than keeping the songs (disc space permitting.)
JPN VA seem to be pretty poorly paid, too, so I wouldn't think that the licensing fee could be that much...
dragonlife
Member
To be honest, I'm amazed ethelred even managed to decipher and counter your posts. Reading them is usually like slamming into a brick wall for me since I never understand what point you're trying to make unless someone else pitches in.doomed1 said:
I really don't mean offense by that, though; I'm just trying to juxtapose your reply [to charlequin] with my thoughts.
Perhaps it's the sadist in me speaking, but the black hole that is my heart always warms up a bit when I hear people complain about wanting a Japanese track for an upcoming game ("original, superior language," etc.) and despair when (unsurprisingly) it doesn't happen. And, really, it sucks for this loud minority that their delicate ears betray them and won't allow them enjoy a game because of its localized dub.
I was wondering how expensive it could be if NISA was able to do it for a Sakura Wars game, which has more voice acting than most RPGs from notable seiyuus. Just curious really, we definitely won't get a straight answer about this.grandjedi6 said:
Same here. I used to be mostly neutral on this subject (more options are always good after all) but constantly reading the crazy silly reasoning from those who want the SUPERIOR voices because English dubs SUCK in conveying emotion etc etc is actually making me start to not want the Japanese tracks in localized games just to see them suffer. Heh, I already jump over whatever comparison that involves movies.dragonlife29 said:
Yup. I once argued with charlequin in the deceased FFXIII thread that having other languages in the game helps people who are actually learning that language (helped me with English, helps my brother with Spanish), and he replied by saying that they could leave the audio accompanied by the original text. If possible, it's a great idea. Japanese audio with Japanese text only + English audio with English text only, etc.ethelred said:
DXB-KNIGHT
Member
The important thing is that its still COMING through Mangod or Mandragora I don't care.
through Mangod or Mandragora I don't care.
Urban Scholar
Member
I'll be perfectly honest here, I think summer is a good release window. I don't remember many RPGs I sort of looked forward to around this time. Plus you know.... vacation time
Since the localization debate has begun yet again, I'd like to ask what peoples feelings are on the smaller cultural changes made in localizations? Leaving a game in Japanese and adding English sub titles is usually stupid (I still think Shenmue 2 was better for it) but what about making Maya in PW love hamburgers and live in CA?
Should Persona games be localized as taking place in American schools because the experience the Japanese player gets is a familiar one and for me it's foreign? If the localization team is trying to convey the same tone and not just transfer the game literally, it seems they shouldn't keep it Japan based. (I understand not everyone is American, please fill in your country there (unless it's Japan).)
I honestly am not sure how I feel about this stuff. I generally want the Japaneseness to be retained and conveyed through a well written English script but I can see how that could lead to some silly stuff. At the same time, making Persona take place in NYC seems absurd.
In summary, should Alex Kidd be eating a rice ball or a hamburger in the Western release of Miracle World?
Should Persona games be localized as taking place in American schools because the experience the Japanese player gets is a familiar one and for me it's foreign? If the localization team is trying to convey the same tone and not just transfer the game literally, it seems they shouldn't keep it Japan based. (I understand not everyone is American, please fill in your country there (unless it's Japan).)
I honestly am not sure how I feel about this stuff. I generally want the Japaneseness to be retained and conveyed through a well written English script but I can see how that could lead to some silly stuff. At the same time, making Persona take place in NYC seems absurd.
In summary, should Alex Kidd be eating a rice ball or a hamburger in the Western release of Miracle World?
Alcibiades
Member
unless it's an already established franchise, then you have to work to get the hardcore crowd behind an RPG because the genre is already niche as it is... every sale is precious for games that aren't Final Fantasy...grandjedi6 said:
Segata Sanshiro
Member
My opinion is that if it obviously takes place in Japan, it's pretty stupid to try and whitewash it. There's no doubt Persona is in Japan, and while most of the time PW comes out okay, when you run into the obviously Japanese elements, it's really fucked up. Maya eating hamburgers isn't a problem; Maya's village allegedly being in the Rockies somewhere is.jay said:
I guess my stance is if you can get away with it, go for it, but if you end up holding a duck and telling me it's a cat, then don't bother. So Alex can have his hamburger, IMO.
jj984jj said:
if someone had the actual jap disc and dumped it on a hdd, you'd see how big the actual game is without dummy data
i'll assume they use aac or mp3 or some sort of compression audio format that achieves the same bitrate, you'd literally have tens of hours of audio in less then 700mb
so you're telling me that they cant fit less than 700mb of extra space on the disc
worse comes to worse, put it on a dual layer
to this date, there are only 2 games on wii that uses dual layer: ssbb and mp trilogy
i doubt ARF is more than 3.5 gigs in actual size
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