inner-G said:Mangod!!
will buy.
Same here
Hope they include dual audio, that'd be the best compromise imo! Then again, dvd
inner-G said:Mangod!!
will buy.
Stage On said:The average english dub just can't get the emotional part of it right
Stage On said:Doomed1 said it best. The average english dub just can't get the emotional part of it right
A random list of bad dubs. They aren't all ear bleeding but they aren't exactly good either.
Blue dragon
Ar tonlico
Atelier Iris (The entire series in general on ps2)
Baten Kaitos (if they had stuck to the voices from the orginal trailer rather then changing them it might have worked out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvNP0A3XvXE&feature=related To this day my friends STILL make fun of the end "Xelha" )
Chaos wars
Grandia 3
Phantasy star universe
Voice acting should be more like Lunar. That got it right over a decade ago.
Stage On said:Doomed1 said it best. The average english dub just can't get the emotional part of it right
A random list of bad dubs. They aren't all ear bleeding but they aren't exactly good either.
Blue dragon
Ar tonlico
Atelier Iris (The entire series in general on ps2)
Baten Kaitos (if they had stuck to the voices from the orginal trailer rather then changing them it might have worked out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvNP0A3XvXE&feature=related To this day my friends STILL make fun of the end "Xelha" )
Chaos wars
Grandia 3
Phantasy star universe
Voice acting should be more like Lunar. That got it right over a decade ago.
cosmicblizzard said:Grandia 3 was fine for the most part. As one Ar tonelico outside the innuendo scenes. The only problem with Baten Kaitos is they recorded it in space.
ethelred said:Good dub list
Stage On said:Ar tonelico in english is so wooden in comparison. And Grandia 3 is only "fine" in comparison to Grandia 2 since it DID improve a bit. It's not terrible but it's not at par with the orginal dub either.
flamesofchaos said:Blame the people who didn't by Retro Game Challenge 1. I heard that Jimmy Soga is pretty pissed that XSEED can't bring over Retro Game Challenge 2 because people didn't buy the first one.
ethelred said:...and so did Last Remnant outside of Johnny Yong Bosch.
Stage On said:Ugh I am so not going to have a list war It's just not worth it. Especially since some of those games on the lsit aren't even Rpgs (Dragon Quest Swords and Profesor Layten for example is really reaching) Not to mention I don't agree with some of that stuff thought.
For example In my opinion FFX had bad voice acting in general not even taking acount the laugh sceen and that's just one thought I don't disagree with the entire list.
At least I'll conceed that the average dub at least isn't nails on a chalkboard bad thought I still think alot of them are very wooden and less emotional in general.
But hey if they could at least match the quality the tales game dubs have had lately I'd be pretty happy. I'm just not going to hold my breath for that to happen since they are unproven in that deparement
iconoclast said:
Come on, he does good work. That's why he's everywhere!
Wait, why does that even matter?Stage On said:Ugh I am so not going to have a list war It's just not worth it. Especially since some of those games on the lsit aren't even Rpgs (Dragon Quest Swords and Profesor Layten for example is really reaching) Not to mention I don't agree with some of that stuff thought.
For example In my opinion FFX had bad voice acting in general not even taking acount the laugh sceen and that's just one thought I don't disagree with the entire list.
At least I'll conceed that the average dub at least isn't nails on a chalkboard bad thought I still think alot of them are very wooden and less emotional in general.
But hey if they could at least match the quality the tales game dubs have had lately I'd be pretty happy. I'm just not going to hold my breath for that to happen since they are unproven in that deparement
Stage On said:Ugh I am so not going to have a list war
Stage On said:It's just not worth it. Especially since some of those games on the lsit aren't even Rpgs (Dragon Quest Swords and Profesor Layten for example is really reaching) Not to mention I don't agree with some of that stuff thought.
alright, i think i should qualify myself a bit here, i DON'T think that English voice acting should be completely excluded from game localizations if the publisher wants them and feels they're an appropriate investment, i DO on the other hand believe that they shouldn't be to the exclusion of the original voices. when i say least common denominator, i mean EVERYONE, like kids and bro-casual gamers, neither of which will likely buy this game. this game, by its nature, not its voice acting, is already a niche, and while i WILL say that the gamers that demand a Japanese voice script are within a niche as well, it's always nice to have that in addition to the original voices. for a game so niche, every option is key.ethelred said:This is a pointless debate to get into, but the bottom line is that video games are not the same as films and any analogy relies on a direct comparison between the two is built on top of failure; if you're going to release a video game in English then you need to provide the appropriate voice acting as well so that people can understand what's being said -- it's a basic expectation of a full localization. On top of that, if your concern is original meaning or translation plot holes then you need to learn the original language and play in the original text as well. But this has been hashed out so many times and I've said everything I intend to say on the subject before (such as here, here, here, here, and especially here).
I guess the only other thing I have to add is that it's kind of funny to see any huge proponent of the Wii, such as yourself, lambaste anyone else for being lowest common denominator. You don't get to be an ultra-cultured sophisticate whilst constantly trumpeting the system that Mario and Wii Fit built.
batbeg said:Oh Christ.
I think it actually makes me happy knowing there isn't going to be a Japanese voice track in this game.
madara said:Yeah its crazy to think that rpg fans would want [...] experience the game in its native form.
madara said:Plus reading, its sucks, rpgs fans want all voices now since the alien attack of 2002 that sucked out our imagination.
Even xseeds is less niche than what you are describing.doomed1 said:alright, i think i should qualify myself a bit here, i DON'T think that English voice acting should be completely excluded from game localizations if the publisher wants them and feels they're an appropriate investment, i DO on the other hand believe that they shouldn't be to the exclusion of the original voices. when i say least common denominator, i mean EVERYONE, like kids and bro-casual gamers, neither of which will likely buy this game. this game, by its nature, not its voice acting, is already a niche, and while i WILL say that the gamers that demand a Japanese voice script are within a niche as well, it's always nice to have that in addition to the original voices. for a game so niche, every option is key.
well since they are apparently dubbing it in Japan...cosmicblizzard said:Hey, has the mouth movement problem been brought up? I'm assuming Ignition doesn't have the money to go back and lip-sync everything accurately unless I'm severely overestimating what the process entails.
ethelred said:
grandjedi6 said:well since they are apparently dubbing it in Japan...
how does that work? all i said was that the original voices should always be an option, not that there shouldn't be any localized voices. i just tend to prefer the original voice cast. maybe one day i should make a game entirely in French and see what people think of that...grandjedi6 said:Even xseeds is less niche than what you are describing.
yes, this was something else i was going to bring up, as it's actually a problem for this game.cosmicblizzard said:Hey, has the mouth movement problem been brought up? I'm assuming Ignition doesn't have the money to go back and lip-sync everything accurately unless I'm severely overestimating what the process entails.
doomed1 said:i DON'T think that English text should be completely excluded from game localizations if the publisher wants them and feels they're an appropriate investment, i DO on the other hand believe that they shouldn't be to the exclusion of the original text.
WickedLaharl said:nothing would please me more than if every localized jrpg from now till the end of time didn't include the japanese va.
Isn't that dumb? Aren't you equating understand everything to understanding nothing?charlequin said:This simple substitution easily demonstrates why your position is ridiculous.
The number of people who demand a Japanese language track is so niche that it is almost never profitable for a company to bother.doomed1 said:how does that work? all i said was that the original voices should always be an option, not that there shouldn't be any localized voices. i just tend to prefer the original voice cast. maybe one day i should make a game entirely in French and see what people think of that...
grandjedi6 said:Wait, why does that even matter?
And you act like its a one way street but its not. Sure there are some bad english dubs, but there are also bad japanese dubs of western games. And sometimes the english dubs can outdo the Japanese originals. There are examples for every position.
grandjedi6 said:The number of people who demand a Japanese language track is so niche that it is almost never profitable for a company to bother.
charlequin said:This simple falafal easily demonstrates why your falafal is ridiculous.
Preach on!
Stage On said:I already agreed that some english dubs beat out the orginal. English dubs aren't always bad. For example the english version of DQ8 is far superior to the Japense version simply becuse of the voice acting which is non existint over in the oriant.
Maybe it's just my ears, but to me the voices just don't live up to the orginal sound track. Most of the time to me they don't sound right and don't match the same emotinal range or intenstity which sucks alot of the quality out of it to me.
It has nothing to do with the fact that it's japense becuse I'd have the same reaction if it was in French and the english version sounded bad in comparison.
Almost neverIf that where true why do they bother to throw it in then? For example Ultimate ninja 1 and 2 didn't have a japanese track but they caved and threw it in for Ultimate ninja 3 becuse of complaints.
the cost of putting in dual audio is so low that they may as well. it's also become a common question in interviews, so there must be SOMEONE.grandjedi6 said:The number of people who demand a Japanese language track is so niche that it is almost never profitable for a company to bother.
i'm not even going to begin with how little sense that makes.charlequin said:This simple substitution easily demonstrates why your position is ridiculous.
grandjedi6 said:The number of people who demand a Japanese language track is so niche that it is almost never profitable for a company to bother.
Are you sure about that? I imagine disk space issues + licensing the original voices adds up pretty significantly in price.doomed1 said:the cost of putting in dual audio is so low that they may as well.
video game "journalists" tend to be the nichest of the niche, especially those from fansites.it's also become a common question in interviews, so there must be SOMEONE.
grandjedi6 said:I'm not disagreeing with your opinion, but what are you refering to exactly? Perhaps I'm misreading but it sounds like you're refering to something specific?
Almost never
(Actually its possible that alot of the cases that do include the japanese voice track aren't profitable anyway as niche publishers tend to be rather suicidal when it comes to money and fan demands.)
not nearly as much as casting, directing, and resynching English voices are. but hey, i'm a niche, right?grandjedi6 said:Are you sure about that? I imagine disk space issues + licensing the original voices adds up pretty significantly in price.
Do they actually have to license the original voices?grandjedi6 said:Are you sure about that? I imagine disk space issues + licensing the original voices adds up pretty significantly in price.
To be honest, I'm amazed ethelred even managed to decipher and counter your posts. Reading them is usually like slamming into a brick wall for me since I never understand what point you're trying to make unless someone else pitches in.doomed1 said:i'm not even going to begin with how little sense that makes.
I was wondering how expensive it could be if NISA was able to do it for a Sakura Wars game, which has more voice acting than most RPGs from notable seiyuus. Just curious really, we definitely won't get a straight answer about this.grandjedi6 said:Are you sure about that? I imagine disk space issues + licensing the original voices adds up pretty significantly in price.
Same here. I used to be mostly neutral on this subject (more options are always good after all) but constantly reading the crazy silly reasoning from those who want the SUPERIOR voices because English dubs SUCK in conveying emotion etc etc is actually making me start to not want the Japanese tracks in localized games just to see them suffer. Heh, I already jump over whatever comparison that involves movies.dragonlife29 said:To be honest, I'm amazed ethelred even managed to decipher and counter your posts. Reading them is usually like slamming into a brick wall for me since I never understand what point you're trying to make unless someone else pitches in.
I really don't mean offense by that, though; I'm just trying to juxtapose your reply [to charlequin] with my thoughts.
Perhaps it's the sadist in me speaking, but the black hole that is my heart always warms up a bit when I hear people complain about wanting a Japanese track for an upcoming game ("original, superior language," etc.) and despair when (unsurprisingly) it doesn't happen. And, really, it sucks for this loud minority that their delicate ears betray them and won't allow them enjoy a game because of its localized dub.
Yup. I once argued with charlequin in the deceased FFXIII thread that having other languages in the game helps people who are actually learning that language (helped me with English, helps my brother with Spanish), and he replied by saying that they could leave the audio accompanied by the original text. If possible, it's a great idea. Japanese audio with Japanese text only + English audio with English text only, etc.ethelred said:Here you go. Pristine original experience in its native form.
unless it's an already established franchise, then you have to work to get the hardcore crowd behind an RPG because the genre is already niche as it is... every sale is precious for games that aren't Final Fantasy...grandjedi6 said:The number of people who demand a Japanese language track is so niche that it is almost never profitable for a company to bother.
Not sure why you'd think that. I think that is, by far, the biggest reason why this game wouldn't have dual audio.Anony said:i highly doubt the disc space is an issue
it's probably the licensing
but honestly, i doubt licensing the jap voices cost more than redubbing it in english plus cuts the production time
My opinion is that if it obviously takes place in Japan, it's pretty stupid to try and whitewash it. There's no doubt Persona is in Japan, and while most of the time PW comes out okay, when you run into the obviously Japanese elements, it's really fucked up. Maya eating hamburgers isn't a problem; Maya's village allegedly being in the Rockies somewhere is.jay said:Since the localization debate has begun yet again, I'd like to ask what peoples feelings are on the smaller cultural changes made in localizations? Leaving a game in Japanese and adding English sub titles is usually stupid (I still think Shenmue 2 was better for it) but what about making Maya in PW love hamburgers and live in CA?
Should Persona games be localized as taking place in American schools because the experience the Japanese player gets is a familiar one and for me it's foreign? If the localization team is trying to convey the same tone and not just transfer the game literally, it seems they shouldn't keep it Japan based. (I understand not everyone is American, please fill in your country there (unless it's Japan).)
I honestly am not sure how I feel about this stuff. I generally want the Japaneseness to be retained and conveyed through a well written English script but I can see how that could lead to some silly stuff. At the same time, making Persona take place in NYC seems absurd.
In summary, should Alex Kidd be eating a rice ball or a hamburger in the Western release of Miracle World?
jj984jj said:Not sure why you'd think that. I think that is, by far, the biggest reason why this game wouldn't have dual audio.
Unless you know something about the licensing involved that you're not telling us.
dragonlife29 said:To be honest, I'm amazed ethelred even managed to decipher and counter your posts. Reading them is usually like slamming into a brick wall for me since I never understand what point you're trying to make unless someone else pitches in.
DXB-KNIGHT said:The important thing is that its still COMING through Mangod or Mandragora I don't care.