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Are transgendered folk obligated to disclose that information to potential mates?

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If you don't have a problem dating them as they are what difference does knowing they're TG make? You're talking about a mental block that only applies when you KNOW. It's like me with onions, I'm usually fine eating something if I don't taste them but if I'm told they're there even if I had been enjoying it my mind will start rejecting the food as WITH ONIONS so I usually don't want to know because it's silly to deny myself good food just because I don't like tasting onions.

As I said earlier, if you really want to know then ask every girl you want to sleep with if they were born with a penis before you try to have sex with them. See how they react.

I've mentioned this earlier:

If your wife cheats on you, and you don't know, you will be happy. If you find out, you will not be. The fact that you did not know does not change your opinion on the matter, but regardless, ignorance is bliss. That does not mean we should all strive to be ignorant.
 

Gaborn

Member
Agreed. It is totally irrational, but so are many more things, especially much more trivial things when involving dating/sexual attraction, which I guess could be said is under the guise of 'preference', but this isn't challenged very often concerning other topics as much as it has been here. I feel that it's just the way it is and we've all had to go through rejection, so changing the way people thing about these things is going to take a long time.

It will definitely take a while. That's why I like my suggestion that people who are concerned about it should go up to every girl they want to sleep with and ask if they were born with a penis. That is basically what some posters have said they want TG people to do.

Also, Daimaou's post above sums it up a lot as to what I think too.

You should reconsider onions though G, they're delicious! :p

I've tried! I've gotten better. I can JUST about tolerate onion rings without vomiting, when I was a kid though even the smell of onions would even just about make me retch. Still can't come CLOSE to for example putting an onion on a burger.
 

Gaborn

Member
babies versus no babies is a pretty big difference

That's a different question. "Are you fertile?" is different then "are you XY?"

I've mentioned this earlier:

If your wife cheats on you, and you don't know, you will be happy. If you find out, you will not be. The fact that you did not know does not change your opinion on the matter, but regardless, ignorance is bliss. That does not mean we should all strive to be ignorant.

That goes back to my abortion analogy though. For some people that is an absolute deal breaker but I really don't think you're going to argue that a woman has to disclose something like that to you.

edit: didn't mean to DP.
 

Jaffaboy

Member
Pretty much, yes. If you can't tell then what difference does it make?

Rationally, it doesn't make a difference unless fertility is an issue. The more I've thought about this though, the more I've thought it might not be the best option to say anything early in the relationship. However, I think it should be brought up at some point, withholding that kind of past over time must be incredibly difficult and gut wrenching to keep secret. And I think the other half does deserve to know eventually, and if they react negatively then you know they're not the right person to be with.

EDIT: Also G, it's ok, I don't think any onions will be offended if you don't consume them.
 

Gaborn

Member
In your mind they shouldn't need to know, its not relevant, but is that universal? In other words, are there people out there who, if they were in such a relationship, would want/need to know?

Yes, but isn't that true of a variety of personal information? How personal does someone have to get in a relationship? Abortion? Rape? Miscarriage?

until the non-transgendered person wants to know why/how they're infertile and if they can find a different way to still have a baby without adopting.

"I was told by my doctor I can never bear children"
 

Loofy

Member
Depends. Would a transgendered person be comfortable keeping that entire 18+ years of their life a secret? Id imagine that could get kinda complicated.
"Hey honey we need pictures for the presentation at our wedding, you mind getting some from your parents family albums?"
"Umm.. They burned in a fire."
"Maybe we can go to your old schools and request yearbook pictures"
"They all burned down in a fire. Such a tragedy."
 

dudeworld

Member
"I was told by my doctor I can never bear children"

there was a thread on gaf just recently (a personal story iirc) about a couple who were told by doctors that they wouldn't be able to have kids, yet are now having a child. Doctor's word wasn't enough to stop that couple.
 

squidyj

Member
Yes, but isn't that true of a variety of personal information? How personal does someone have to get in a relationship? Abortion? Rape? Miscarriage?



"I was told by my doctor I can never bear children"

"But honey there's all sorts of new science and technology out there today, maybe we should see another doctor"

I think you're going to find out eventually if you stay together, seems inevitable to me.
 

Daimaou

Member
there was a thread on gaf just recently (a personal story iirc) about a couple who were told by doctors that they wouldn't be able to have kids, yet are now having a child. Doctor's word wasn't enough to stop that couple.

That depends entirely on what the problem is. There are plenty of congenital conditions that can leave people 100% infertile, which they can always say they have.

Alternatively, they can always avoid the situation by simply saying they never want to have kids.
 

SapientWolf

Trucker Sexologist
No, I'm assuming that people are sentient beings who can transcend instincts, genetics, gut responses, emotional baggage, and cultural preconceptions in order to make decisions, as hard as all that might be.

I can't blame people for having an unconscious visceral negative reaction to the idea of dating a trans person -- the idea of transgender itself is pretty complex and requires a significant mental shift to really wrap your mind around on a conceptual level, and that's before the emotional level (which is illogical and unpredictable) gets involved. What I do think is that it's very much worth pushing past that discomfort and visceral reaction to look at the question in different ways and consider whether there's anything underneath, and whether one's position about being forthcoming on this topic in a sexual relationship line up with one's positions on other issues of importance.

I honestly wonder how much of an unspoken issue in these discussions is people thinking about situations where they want to have sex with other people right away after meeting them.

In a somewhat... protracted dating/courtship process, there's time for this kind of stuff to come out at a relaxed pace and for potential dealbreakers (including major life history elements like being trans) to be revealed after there's already some rapport and mutual interest, without having to be some checklist-style warning blurted out upfront. But I could imagine people creating this imaginary scenario about meeting someone, sleeping with them right away, and only later finding out that this whole weird "deception" idea is spun out? I dunno, I'm not really current on how people understand the modern dating scene to work. :p
Well, I personally agree. I make it a point not to judge people right off. But I don't hold a grudge against people that disagree with that philosophy and respectfully break off a relationship (or a potential relationship) for any reason they want. If a large portion of the local dating pool thinks something is important then it's worth mentioning early, even if it doesn't seem that way on a personal level. The things people place importance on are not always obvious, so experience is probably the best guide there.

If you don't have a problem dating them as they are what difference does knowing they're TG make? You're talking about a mental block that only applies when you KNOW. It's like me with onions, I'm usually fine eating something if I don't taste them but if I'm told they're there even if I had been enjoying it my mind will start rejecting the food as WITH ONIONS so I usually don't want to know because it's silly to deny myself good food just because I don't like tasting onions.

As I said earlier, if you really want to know then ask every girl you want to sleep with if they were born with a penis before you try to have sex with them. See how they react.
People feel the same way about a lot of things. Like polyamory, for instance. I'm not saying that it's directly analogous, but that's something that often has no physical tell that many people feel very strongly about. It seems to me that being candid is the best policy when establishing intimacy. Trust is the glue that binds relationships.

There's no strict timetable, requirement or ordered list for personal revelations. Potentially polarizing personal matters should be discussed whenever people feel comfortable talking about them. Having them come out suddenly through possibly unreliable second hand information later down the road could be hurtful and confusing. It's advantageous to be able to control the message and its delivery.
 

squidyj

Member
That depends entirely on what the problem is. There are plenty of congenital conditions that can leave people 100% infertile, which they can always say they have.

Alternatively, they can always avoid the situation by simply saying they never want to have kids.

And if they do actually want to adopt kids?
 
And it gets really frustrating to see that gut reaction wrapped up in disingenuous baggage about "deception" and "the essence of who you are." At least acknowledge what it is.

Yeah, I agree entirely. And this is why I brought up the one-night-stand thing -- it doesn't actually make a lot of sense in a dating context where people actually spend some time feeling each other out and learning secrets if things seem to be going well, but it makes more sense* as some sort of "what if I pick up a girl I know nothing about at a bar and later... X happens?!" anxiety.

*Speaking strictly on a causal level.

Depends. Would a transgendered person be comfortable keeping that entire 18+ years of their life a secret? Id imagine that could get kinda complicated.
"Hey honey we need pictures for the presentation at our wedding, you mind getting some from your parents family albums?"
"Umm.. They burned in a fire."
"Maybe we can go to your old schools and request yearbook pictures"
"They all burned down in a fire. Such a tragedy."

Yeah, This whole "keeping it a secret in a real long-term relationship" thing is pretty implausible unless the person in question really has severed all ties (no contact with family or friends from before they identified as trans, working at a job and living in a place where everyone knew them as their new gender, etc. etc.) and they carefully self-edit to avoid ever providing an anecdote or fact about their life history that gives it away.

Actually broaching it the first time is certainly going to be difficult, but I'd imagine most trans people would want to tell someone they were getting involved in a serious relationship with for exactly this reason.
 

dudeworld

Member
Hormones? Maintenance of the surgical site?

at the end of the day there are many ways to have a biological child, or half a biological child (by this I mean, the man's sperm and an egg from a donor, assuming a man and transgendered woman couple) however it all boils down to one big lie. Finding an egg donor, based on a lie. Spending a lot of time and research on alternative child bearing methods, based on a lie. Raising the child that's half your husband's and half a donor's, based on a lie.

If you can still feel good about yourself by keeping up all these lies then good for you, I guess. Lies are hard to keep up, though, and the truth will eventually come out one way or another.
 

Daimaou

Member
Hormones? Maintenance of the surgical site?

Oh, sorry, I was trying to put that in context of what you quoted.

I have no clue what sort of follow up reassignment surgery actually requires, so I'll plead ignorance. I wouldn't think that the surgical site would need to be checked out past a month or two after the surgery actually happened, but I could very well be wrong.

at the end of the day there are many ways to have a biological child, or half a biological child (by this I mean, the man's sperm and an egg from a donor, assuming a man and transgendered woman couple) however it all boils down to one big lie. Finding an egg donor, based on a lie. Spending a lot of time and research on alternative child bearing methods, based on a lie. Raising the child that's half your husband's and half a donor's, based on a lie.

If you can still feel good about yourself by keeping up all these lies then good for you, I guess. Lies are hard to keep up, though, and the truth will eventually come out one way or another.

They would have to do the same things regardless if they told the truth and wanted children. The outcome is no different.

I agree that honesty is the best policy, but people also have a right to privacy, and it is their prerogative to exercise that right as they see fit.
 

Zoe

Member
Oh, sorry, I was trying to put that in context of what you quoted.

I have no clue what sort of follow up reassignment surgery actually requires, so I'll plead ignorance. I wouldn't think that the surgical site would need to be checked out past a month or two after the surgery actually happened, but I could very well be wrong.

Well you were saying they could just lie about the whole thing rather than come up with a medical condition.

It was said earlier that there needs to be regular maintenance of the constructed vagina against bacteria and to maintain the depth.
 

Daimaou

Member
Well you were saying they could just lie about the whole thing rather than come up with a medical condition.

It was said earlier that there needs to be regular maintenance of the constructed vagina against bacteria and to maintain the depth.

Again, what? "I was not born with ovaries" is not a lie, and is something that can happen with biological women. Also, I was not saying that if they wanted children to say they didn't, (though I suppose they could) just that if they actually don't it renders infertility irrelevant.

Also, I haven't read the entire thread, I apologize that I missed that.
 

dudeworld

Member
Oh, sorry, I was trying to put that in context of what you quoted.

I have no clue what sort of follow up reassignment surgery actually requires, so I'll plead ignorance. I wouldn't think that the surgical site would need to be checked out past a month or two after the surgery actually happened, but I could very well be wrong.



They would have to do the same things regardless if they told the truth and wanted children. The outcome is no different.

I agree that honesty is the best policy, but people also have a right to privacy, and it is their prerogative to exercise that right as they see fit.

the lies that are protecting their privacy could give it up their secret too
 

Daimaou

Member
the lies that are protecting their privacy could give it up their secret too

Why yes, they very well could. I don't believe I've said anything to the contrary. I've said multiple times in this thread that I think they should tell their partner, however they are under no obligation to do so.
 

lexi

Banned
I love onions. I pick them out of salads / burgers and eat them separately to appreciate their tear-inducing goodness.
 

CHEEZMO™

Obsidian fan
Onions are terribad.

Theres a pizza downstairs that I was going to have until I noticed it had onions. So I just had some chips instead >_>
 

chiQ

Member
NZ onions are bad. They're too ouchie. Greek red onions are awesome: so sweet and mild. I only eat NZ onions thoroughly cooked.

How are we talking onions. I came in here for transsexual outage outrage.
 

akira28

Member
I came in here for transsexual outage outrage.

That was never the topic. Actually not even related to the topic.

More like, do people have a right to know that about someone they're potentially going to get into a relationship with, if even only a mostly physical one. Not really about anger that they disclosed that they were TG.
 

Emitan

Member
I think someone needs to tell me they like onions so I know not to date them. Even if they don't eat them now, I just can't possibly date someone who used to eat onions.
 

chiQ

Member
That was never the topic. Actually not even related to the topic.

More like, do people have a right to know that about someone they're potentially going to get into a relationship with, if even only a mostly physical one. Not really about anger that they disclosed that they were TG.

I am aware of what the topic is about, and I think outrage over whether or not someone outs themself to a potential lover fits that specification fine. Don't be so uptight, and pay attention to what I actually said, which in a nutshell was:

"Onions?!"
 
That goes back to my abortion analogy though. For some people that is an absolute deal breaker but I really don't think you're going to argue that a woman has to disclose something like that to you.

I don't see how it has anything to do with abortion, but there is a morality component. If you believe that abortion is murder, then you would not wish to be with someone who has had an abortion. Would you believe that someone who has committed murder, or perhaps is a sex offender should keep their partner from knowing such a thing - especially if their beliefs on the matter haven't changed (and they aren't remorseful)?
 

Gaborn

Member
I don't see how it has anything to do with abortion, but there is a morality component. If you believe that abortion is murder, then you would not wish to be with someone who has had an abortion. Would you believe that someone who has committed murder, or perhaps is a sex offender should keep their partner from knowing such a thing - especially if their beliefs on the matter haven't changed (and they aren't remorseful)?

Do you think a person who, say, committed murder and is on the run would tell in any case? Would you EXPECT them to tell?

The point with the abortion analogy was simply that there are some things that people have a right to keep private even if you think someone might LIKE to know. You don't have the right to know someone's private medical history.
 

alekth

Member
I don't see how it has anything to do with abortion, but there is a morality component. If you believe that abortion is murder, then you would not wish to be with someone who has had an abortion. Would you believe that someone who has committed murder, or perhaps is a sex offender should keep their partner from knowing such a thing - especially if their beliefs on the matter haven't changed (and they aren't remorseful)?

Really sounds more the other way around to me. A woman who's had an abortion wouldn't like being with someone who regards it as murder.

When did a potential mate become equal to someone to have kids with anyway?
 
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