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Are Xbox One's RGB Settings Broken?

iMax

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So I've been running some black level tests on my Xbox One using this site in order to establish whether Full RGB is working properly.



With my Xbox One and my TV both set to 'Limited RGB' (16-235), I can only see 20+ range, i.e. crushed blacks.

Similarly, with my Xbox One and my TV both set to 'Full RGB' (0-255), I can only see the same 20+ range, i.e. crushed blacks.

Now normally I'd put this down to a screwed up TV calibration or something. But, if I plug my PS4 in using the same HDMI input and cable, everything works as it should on both Limited and Full RGB – and all the squares appear with both scenarios. Also, when using the pre-installed calibration app on Xbox One, their own black level test works as expected on both Limited and Full RGB, showing every single tile. However, the background changes colour slightly when the app is launched, suggesting to me something fishy is going on.

Anyone else had similar issues?
 

hodgy100

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It's a known issue with the xbox one's output. wether its intentional or not is unknown as the sharpening filter has been adressed but this issue has been left despite it also being complained about.
 

VE3TRO

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Yup still buggered. I leave it Limited then adjusts the LED settings when it comes to the blacks and gamma.
 

sangreal

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I actually used that same page the other day, and it works fine for me in limited RGB (with display set to limited). Full is completely fucked for me; even with the official calibration tool I can't get the closed eye or sun to show up (works fine in limited)

Tried w/ both tv (kuro) and my desktop monitor

I posted about it in the preview feedback forum, but I doubt they will fix it
 

Lima

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Yup output is fucked. Especially full rgb. Limited is broken too because while it is 16-235 the EDID info still shows that signal info is 0-255. This means that if you are using a TV with an auto setting for RGB levels (such as the Panasonic 60 series) the picture will be washed out because the TV expects 0-255.
 

iMax

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The Xbox One has a known issue with crushed blacks when using "Full" RGB.
But even Limited is screwed for me. Can't get anything to show below 20. But PS4 works totally fine.

Yup output is fucked. Especially full rgb. Limited is broken too because while it is 16-235 the EDID info still shows that signal info is 0-255. This means that if you are using a TV with an auto setting for RGB levels (such as the Panasonic 60 series) the picture will be washed out because the TV expects 0-255.
edit: That explains it. I have the same TV. How do I get the EDID info? Weirdly though, forcing the TV to limited doesn't remedy the issue.
 

EBE

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Jun 14, 2013
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have my xbox one set to limited and calibrated with the built in tool.
can only see 20+ on test pattern. adjust tv settings to work with the pattern and games now looks noticeably washed out (too bright).
revert back to previous settings and everything looks fine and as it should be. i dont know OP.
 

Hadoken

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If they did this intentionally for the pop then adding a "calibrate TV" feature on the console is pointless.
 

ACH1LL3US

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Yea, the Xbox One RGB in both Limited and Full is broken. I have tested on my Pioneer Kuro pro101 fd ( ISF calibrated) and on my Samsung 55f7100 LED tv and three dif pc monitors (Samsung s27c750p, Dell s2740l, Asus MX279h) all of them showed the same issue with them set on limited Xbox One and Limited on the monitor/tvs and same with Full on both display and the One.

I hope Microsoft fixes this but they never did with the 360 so.....
 

Lima

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First of all this it not the same thing as on 360. On the 360 the culprit was the weird gamma curve.

The Xbox One actually has a fairly linear gamma. The problem is that it clips lower values. This is easily fixable and it is baffling that they haven't done it yet.
 

iMax

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First of all this it not the same thing as on 360. On the 360 the culprit was the weird gamma curve.

The Xbox One actually has a fairly linear gamma. The problem is that it clips lower values. This is easily fixable and it is baffling that they haven't done it yet.
.
 

TheAdmiester

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Can someone explain "crushing blacks" like I'm an idiot or show a side by side of what it should look like?
 

HoodWinked

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Can someone explain "crushing blacks" like I'm an idiot or show a side by side of what it should look like?
its when dark things rather rather than showing up as dark things just appear as black. Look at the collar area in the 1993 you can see the folds in the 2004 you just see black.

 

polyh3dron

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It's been discussed in quite a few threads now. The XBOne has crushed blacks and it sucks, but some of the console's defenders have gone on record here on GAF saying they prefer the crushed blacks.
 

HoodWinked

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Would it be a simple fix? I'm just curious
i think so but i think it may be by choice.

theres some clever guy that figured out how to screencap as you press the guide button and it shows a clean image also BF4 doesnt have this issue because they use some custom scaler.
 

iMax

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It's been discussed in quite a few threads now. The XBOne has crushed blacks and it sucks, but some of the console's defenders have gone on record here on GAF saying they prefer the crushed blacks.
I genuinely don't understand how people don't prefer authentic colour reproduction.
 

Chobel

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its when dark things rather rather than showing up as dark things just appear as black. Look at the collar area in the 1993 you can see the folds in the 2004 you just see black.

It looks like black crush filters can also reduce image noise.
 

HoodWinked

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I genuinely don't understand how people don't prefer authentic colour reproduction.
its pretty simple its the same reason why you go to any electronics store and notice that all the TVs are set to max brightness/contrast/max dynamic. basically if its 'eye catching' sometimes thats what qualifies it as looking good.

i mean my roommate sets his tv to awful vivid settings thinks it looks better. i'm like this looks awful.
 

VE3TRO

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i think so but i think it may be by choice.

theres some clever guy that figured out how to screencap as you press the guide button and it shows a clean image also BF4 doesnt have this issue because they use some custom scaler.
Yea that was me - http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=726091

I may setup the capture kit over the weekend and do some new tests see if it's still an issue in the April preview update for the XB1. I wonder this because I've been playing AC4 this week and it doesn't look too crushed compared to before when I play it at Christmas.
 

Shin-Ra

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Oct 10, 2013
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That is the gamma correction curve used on the Xbox360. It is unrelated to black crush or the XboxOne. It was like that because it was cheaper than a full gamma curve.
Cheaper?

There was a thread a couple of weeks ago: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=787766

Still no follow up on Leadbetter's claim?

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-titanfall-next-gen-face-off
The only other major difference is a skewed gamma ramp on Xbox One, introducing black crush into the image, robbing it of some of the subtle detail you see in the PC game. We understand that this could be an issue in how the Xbox One blends its multiple display panes and would be more of an issue in upscaled games, and we're quite surprised that Microsoft hasn't sought to address this yet.
 

Vashetti

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Oct 3, 2012
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Sorry to bump this thread, but I just saw it linked in the Trials Digital Foundry thread.

Not directly related as I'm asking about PS3 and PS4, but how can I tell if my TV is capable of outputting Full RGB?

My TV is an LG 47LW450U if that helps.
 

Ricerocket

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Sorry to bump this thread, but I just saw it linked in the Trials Digital Foundry thread.

Not directly related as I'm asking about PS3 and PS4, but how can I tell if my TV is capable of outputting Full RGB?

My TV is an LG 47LW450U if that helps.
It should have these options under advanced settings.

Black Level - Low (limited)
Black Level - High (full)

Use High + full RGB settings on either ps3/ps4. Then you can see if the blacks are jacked up with pic in OP
 

Vashetti

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It should have these options under advanced settings.

Black Level - Low (limited)
Black Level - High (full)

Use High + full RGB settings on either ps3/ps4. Then you can see if the blacks are jacked up with pic in OP
Okay, I'll have a dig around in the settings.

Thanks for the quick response.