As bad as things seem for the Wii U, I still think NIntendo can turn things around

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
May 15, 2013
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Because Nintendo think of consoles as gaming devices hooked up to the main family television that people play together, not as gaming devices hooked up to one of many different screens around the house played in solitude.
whynotboth.gif

Again, people implicitly make the implication that an optional GamePad would be a non-existent GamePad. That is just wrong. If you want to have a GamePad for off-screen TV and/or NintendoLand, just buy one.
 
Jan 21, 2011
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The issue at hand is that nobody, even Nintendo, has managed to justify the GamePads inclusion in in every box, given that there are alternative, cheaper, and arguably better controllers.
Has Microsoft really justified the inclusion of Kinect 2 that adds another $100+ to the cost of the hardware? And yet it's selling like hotcakes, so attacking the gamepad is pointless.

The U isn't selling because consumers know Nintendo consoles are duds. Consumers want the winners. They bought the Atari 2600 in droves. The NES in droves. Genesis and SNES in droves. PS1 and PS2 in droves. It's why they're STILL buying the 360 and PS3. The Xbone and PS4. All winners that deliver what consumers want. Nintendo delivers NOTHING. Remember when Dreamcast had a nice library, and dropped to $50, yet consumers kept buying PS2? It's because they don't want the losers.
 
Jan 7, 2007
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As Iwata said in the Q&A, I do think they can bring the Wii U to a place where it has a decent number of units and can turn at least some kind of profit for Nintendo.
 

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
May 15, 2013
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Has Microsoft really justified the inclusion of Kinect 2 that adds another $100+ to the cost of the hardware? And yet it's selling like hotcakes, so attacking the gamepad is pointless.
Well, you can make a very reasonable argument that an Xbox One without Kinect for $399 would have sold better, given that the console is behind the PS4 in every territory.
 
Feb 3, 2007
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whynotboth.gif

Again, people implicitly make the implication that an optional GamePad would be a non-existent GamePad. That is just wrong. If you want to have a GamePad for off-screen TV and/or NintendoLand, just buy one.
So if they'd released a PS4 a year ago; same price, same specs, but the Flipper architecture rather than x86, what would be the scenario now?
- early adopters wouldn't have flocked to buy it, because PS4 and Xbone were on the horizon with their Agnis Philosophy and Samaritan tech demos proving how much more pwoerful they would be when they eventually come out
- Mass Effect what was the fucking point edition would still have flopped and EA would have pulled support
- Rockstar would still not release GTA V on it
- Developers would be complaining about how hard the Flipper architecture is to program for, and how much better x86 is, and how bad Nintendos middleware and documentation is
- Sony and Ms would both be paying big bucks for 'optimisations' for their console which would end up with this hypothetical Nintendo machine running worse than the other 2 because shit, the other two are paying for better performance

Same scenario as today, except maybe this consoles $100 less now than the PS4 and all the same posters are proclaiming it dead and saying theyll get one when its $99
 
May 31, 2013
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So if they'd released a PS4 a year ago; same price, same specs, but the Flipper architecture rather than x86, what would be the scenario now?
- early adopters wouldn't have flocked to buy it, because PS4 and Xbone were on the horizon with their Agnis Philosophy and Samaritan tech demos proving how much more pwoerful they would be when they eventually come out
- Mass Effect what was the fucking point edition would still have flopped and EA would have pulled support
- Rockstar would still not release GTA V on it
- Developers would be complaining about how hard the Flipper architecture is to program for, and how much better x86 is, and how bad Nintendos middleware and documentation is
- Sony and Ms would both be paying big bucks for 'optimisations' for their console which would end up with this hypothetical Nintendo machine running worse than the other 2 because shit, the other two are paying for better performance

Same scenario as today, except maybe this consoles $100 less now than the PS4 and all the same posters are proclaiming it dead and saying theyll get one when its $99
How on earth is your example at all comparable to a Wii U with a gamepadless SKU at this point in time?

The argument elTorro is presenting is not that the Wii U shouldn't have come with the Gamepad in the first place [albeit that's a argument with merit as well] but that at this point in time there is no logical reason to maintain inclusion of the gamepad with every Wii U if it allows Nintendo to significantly drop the price

Wait do you mean the Wii U where you said PS4 first??? I'm so confused
 
Feb 3, 2007
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How on earth is your example at all comparable to a Wii U with a gamepadless SKU at this point in time?

The argument elTorro is presenting is not that the Wii U shouldn't have come with the Gamepad in the first place [albeit that's a argument with merit as well] but that at this point in time there is no logical reason to maintain inclusion of the gamepad with every Wii U if it allows Nintendo to significantly drop the price
Oh okay, so whats the scenario for a gamepadless WiiU now?
- A more expensive and perceived to be weaker PS360 with a much smaller library
- Still no third party support
- ???
- Profit

EDIT:
Wait do you mean the Wii U where you said PS4 first??? I'm so confused
A nintendo made console that is identical in every technical respect to the PS4 except using an IBM flipper CPU rather than an AMD.
 

ElTorro

I wanted to dominate the living room. Then I took an ESRAM in the knee.
May 15, 2013
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Oh okay, so whats the scenario for a gamepadless WiiU now?
A cheap Mario, Mario Kart, Smash Bros and hopefully Zelda and Metroid console.

It definitely won't sell well, but that can't be Nintendo's goal anyway. The goal is to make the Wii U sell well enough that it makes at least a small profit. And as I said:

I think that the group of people that would buy a cheap Wii U for Nintendo games, once (1) the first-party library is better filled and (2) the direct pressure from PS4/XBO is less suffocating [1], is much bigger than the group that buys the console specifically because of the GamePad; not big, but bigger.
And that would, of course, not imply that GamePad should disappear:

I appreciate it as an accessory, I just don't see why it should be bundled. Off-screen play is great, but other stuff like the microphone/clouds-gimmick in SM3DW is just annoying. It forces me to switch controllers. I had a blast playing NintendoLand with friends, and I probably would have bought it just for that, but that was basically it.
I own NintendoLand, NSMBU, Pikmin 3, Wind Waker HD, SM3DW and a ton of VC games, and so far, only NintendoLand has even attempted to justify the GamePad's non-optionality. (I also played the W101 demo, end even with that game, you might argue that the GamePad's additions could be absent from the game without impacting the core game itself. But I just played the demo, so my knowledge here is limited)
 
Oct 31, 2013
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I want to buy a WiiU, but there are just a few factors that are making me turn away from that purchase. One of those problems is the gamepad, which I agree with the OP about. I would rather have a pro controller than a gamepad with a screen on it. The other one is the price of it. I'm currently waiting for a price drop with a mario bundle or something. So far the mario games and possibly future zelda games really make me want this system.

I also agree with the OP about Nintendo not needing a more powerful console compared to the others currently out. I agree with that because Nintendo does have a certain quality to their titles and while they are not the most powerful graphically, they at least have that special Nintendo quality in the graphics that make it solid, games like DKC:TF and a few mario titles, as well as zelda. See, now I want to get the system but I'm still going to hold out on it.

I wish Nintendo would stop with the odd controlls and just make a nice console with a good controller and awesome games. That's all I want from Nintendo instead of seeing how funky they can make their next controller.
 
Feb 17, 2006
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There's nothing that can be done realistically. They have, what, 6 million unsold units sitting in warehouses? Dropping the Gamepad is a huge investment in repackaging, marketing, patching, OS revamping, and third party pissing. I think it's pretty clear that at this point it is out of the question in Iwata's mind, and thus, we should probably just stop speculating.

Dropping the Wii U's price is gonna be tough. MS and Sony usually coincide a price drop with a die shrink and console redesign. This is probably not possible with Wii U's unique architecture (proprietary eDRAM technology not designed for ICs below 40nm). If I were Nintendo, I would just try to sell through their existing stock and produce maybe 3 million more if holiday 2014 goes well for them. 15 million is the goal.
 
Sep 5, 2011
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I wish Nintendo would stop with the odd controlls and just make a nice console with a good controller and awesome games. That's all I want from Nintendo instead of seeing how funky they can make their next controller.
The Gamepad does use traditional controls for the most part, have you played it? I was skeptical of the Gamepad too until I played it. I bought a Pro Controller too and barely use it because the Gamepad is just a Pro Controller with extras.

Sometimes I use the Pro Controller to play virtual console games but when I want to move Earthbound to the bedroom, that's where the Gamepad really shines.
 
Oct 31, 2013
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I've held the pro controller twice, I'll try it out a bit more when I can. Another thing that turns me off from it, is I heard if that controller wears out or breaks (I don't break controllers) you can't buy just that one controller, you have to buy a whole new WiiU.
 
May 31, 2013
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Oh okay, so whats the scenario for a gamepadless WiiU now?
- A more expensive and perceived to be weaker PS360 with a much smaller library
- Still no third party support
- ???
- Profit

EDIT:

A nintendo made console that is identical in every technical respect to the PS4 except using an IBM flipper CPU rather than an AMD.
I don't believe nintendo should try to compete with power. Their art style in most games don't require the most demanding graphics. The scenario for the gamepadless SKU now is that Nintendo sells more units, not a megaton gamechanging amount, simply MORE sales. Price is still going to be a factor. I don't understand why PS3 and X360 existing and having better libraries is somehow a valid argument against removing the gamepad at this point in time? With or without the gamepad the Wii U still has to compete with the PS360 twins, it is most likely to do best at a cheaper price. I have yet to see any evidence that would suggest the general public care or value the gamepad, but logic would dictate they care about price.

I see no reason to compare the current scenario to one wherein which nintendo has a compete hardware system instead of the Wii U. Nintendo has always done well with cheaper hardware not powerful hardware
 
Jan 7, 2007
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That is essentially the best possible scenario now: "Hey, at least we didn't lose a ton of money."
Pretty much. He admitted that it's no longer realistic to hope for Wii like sales, but they can still hope to turn a small profit on the system. I was a bit disappointed to hear that Mario Kart 8 and Smash Bros. are what Nintendo looks to be pushing as their biggest titles for the year. I know it makes sense from a broad appeal perspective, but I really do hope they have some unannounced titles that will be released before the end of the year.
 
The only way to have a hope to change WiiU's fate is Nintendo changing their entire business philosophy.

They need to stop being profit centric, relying heavily their fortunes on few franchises that can be huge sellers and leave their less relevant (mismanaged?) franchises to death.

Drop their casual/family approach, this may work for portables and mobile but definitively not work for home consoles. Wii's demise, a very casual-driven system, going under 2008-onward and WiiU's current casual/family appeal are strong indications.

Drop their kiddy appealing direction, they only lost market share with it and this image was used by it's competitors since the SNES/Genesis days to grab it's audience.

Stop trying to avoid the market's trend and jeopardize anyone who thinks different from them. Accept the reality. They tried to getaway from it with Wii, it worked in the beginning, but lost the direction afterwards. You can't ignore online community, hardware power and traditional gaming in 2014 like you believed in 2003.

Rebuild their presence on the western market and amend their relations with third-parties, they're vital for a console's acceptance. You can't survive on your own, this is craziness. Anyone believing this is terribly delusional.

Put effort on marketing and amend their relationship with retailers. Nintendo's shelves among retailers are a joke now.
 
May 23, 2006
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The only way to have a hope to change WiiU's fate is Nintendo changing their entire business philosophy.

They need to stop being profit centric, relying heavily their fortunes on few franchises that can be huge sellers and leave their less relevant (mismanaged?) franchises to death.

Drop their casual/family approach, this may work for portables and mobile but definitively not work for home consoles. Wii's demise, a very casual-driven system, going under 2008-onward and WiiU's current casual/family appeal are strong indications.

Drop their kiddy appealing direction, they only lost market share with it and this image was used by it's competitors since the SNES/Genesis days to grab it's audience.

Stop trying to avoid the market's trend and jeopardize anyone who thinks different from them. Accept the reality. They tried to getaway from it with Wii, it worked in the beginning, but lost the direction afterwards. You can't ignore online community, hardware power and traditional gaming in 2014 like you believed in 2003.

Rebuild their presence on the western market and amend their relations with third-parties, they're vital for a console's acceptance. You can't survive on your own, this is craziness. Anyone believing this is terribly delusional.

Put effort on marketing and amend their relationship with retailers. Nintendo's shelves among retailers are a joke now.
Never happening. They had plenty of opportunities to be leaders in videogame entertainment and offer everything one could want out of a console and did nothing of the sort. Their arrogance, and absolute lack of vision is the death of them. They survive and will continue to survive based on nostalgia alone.
 
Nov 9, 2005
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In my opinion problem is that this type of negative perception feeds itself by itself. It's the Gamecube deja-vù. Once people know a system is in trouble, and maybe even get discounted, everyone flies out no matter how good the games are or will be.
 
Never happening. They had plenty of opportunities to be leaders in videogame entertainment and offer everything one could want out of a console and did nothing of the sort. Their arrogance, and absolute lack of vision is the death of them. They survive and will continue to survive based on nostalgia alone.
Yes, it's no secret why they're in their current position. But I disagree with the bold statement, they have already acknowledged how flawed their direction was. We don't know what kind of changes they'll adopt, but they probably won't keep their nostalgia driven direction anymore, it would stupid to keep it considering their underperformance. But… it's Iwata here, a man who never learn from anything and keep on with the same mistakes.

The only way Wii U can conceivably be successful is if you got a free Xbox One or PS4 with it.
 
Jan 18, 2014
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They shouldn't have released it with the Gamepad. It's a horrible, horrible concept and doomed the system from the start. That said, even without it a weak, underpowered system with nothing but Nintendo games is not going to recover even at $200. The only way Wii U can conceivably be successful is if you got a free Xbox One or PS4 with it.
 

heidern

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Jun 7, 2004
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The gamepad is central to their strategy so they are not going to drop it. The problem with the Wii U is very simple and clear. It's nothing to do with hardware or vision. The problem is that it has had a weak software line up, including a weak first party line up. That's it. Simple as that. A good but unspectacular 2D Mario game was not the right game to convince people to spend $350 on a new console. Their next big release is another Mario platformer. A bit redundant. The next big game... that's right, there is no other big game on the platform yet.

Contrast this with the Wii which had both Wii Sports and Zelda at launch. The difference is staggering. Nintendo really dropped the ball on the Wii U so far. The releases of big games like Wii Fit, Mario Kart, Smash Bros and perhaps Donkey Kong this year will improve things a lot. Then they also have the likes of Zelda and Wii Sports to come.

They won't get up to Wii numbers now, but they have loads going for them and they have a lot of space to carve out a good niche.They're half the price of the Xbone, $150 less than PS4. If they were in a competitive market they'd be in more trouble and they could be another Gamecube or worse. But they have their market segment due to the price differential so they should be able to get to between 25-50 million over the next 5 years depending on how well they do in terms of new IP. Getting below $200 will be the crucial point as that is when they will become truly affordable to casuals and younger gamers.
 
Jan 18, 2014
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The gamepad is central to their strategy so they are not going to drop it. The problem with the Wii U is very simple and clear. It's nothing to do with hardware or vision. The problem is that it has had a weak software line up, including a weak first party line up. That's it. Simple as that
I don't think it is as simple as that at all. People don't just buy systems for games. Quite simply, neither PS4 or Xbox One have much going on software wise but they're easily generating more excitement and momentum that Wii U ever did. People are attracted to attractive hardware. Somebody like me looks at Wii U and even if you ignore the gamepad, the interface of the operating system, the online network, the graphical capabilities, it all looks completely prehistoric. There is nothing about it that makes me think I should buy it instead of keeping my PS3 and 360. The only thing that could make me want it is the games, but the best video game in the world isn't going to get me to spend $350 to play it. There's just fundamental issues with the system conceptually that mean releasing an amazing Zelda game on it or a Smash Bros/Mario Kart isn't going to change the public's perception of the system as inferior to the experiences offered on PS4 and Xbox One.
 
Jul 27, 2013
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Thanks to the handful of great games I've played recently, the WiiU has already become a worthwhile purchase for me. So from my perspective, the WiiU doesn't need to "turn around", Nintendo just needs to continue giving me good games for it. Of course, I've got other consoles to fill in the gaps, otherwise I wouldn't feel this way.

It surprises me how much talk there was around here about the WiiU being a reasonable holiday purchase, now a month later the OP is being ridiculed for having a positive outlook. I can understand the skepticism to a degree, but this is NINTENDO. They still know how to make good games, they have a wealth of IP that got in at the ground floor of our childhoods, and they have a large cash reserve. I believe there are still some good brains over there in Kyoto, and I hope to at least enjoy some fun first-party titles over the next few years, at the very worst.
 
Sep 15, 2006
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The gamepad is central to their strategy so they are not going to drop it. The problem with the Wii U is very simple and clear. It's nothing to do with hardware or vision. The problem is that it has had a weak software line up, including a weak first party line up. That's it. Simple as that. A good but unspectacular 2D Mario game was not the right game to convince people to spend $350 on a new console. Their next big release is another Mario platformer. A bit redundant. The next big game... that's right, there is no other big game on the platform yet.

Contrast this with the Wii which had both Wii Sports and Zelda at launch. The difference is staggering. Nintendo really dropped the ball on the Wii U so far. The releases of big games like Wii Fit, Mario Kart, Smash Bros and perhaps Donkey Kong this year will improve things a lot. Then they also have the likes of Zelda and Wii Sports to come.

They won't get up to Wii numbers now, but they have loads going for them and they have a lot of space to carve out a good niche.They're half the price of the Xbone, $150 less than PS4. If they were in a competitive market they'd be in more trouble and they could be another Gamecube or worse. But they have their market segment due to the price differential so they should be able to get to between 25-50 million over the next 5 years depending on how well they do in terms of new IP. Getting below $200 will be the crucial point as that is when they will become truly affordable to casuals and younger gamers.
This is downright delusional. The release list is as dry as the Sahara, and companies are pulling content, not adding it. You are talking as if GameCube caliber numbers are a worst case scenario. The Wii U is in the GameCubes rear view mirror with no hope of catching up.

Iwata has no viable strategy, just more of the same old platitudes we've been hearing for years with the added bonus of a mystery platform in yet another market Iwata doesn't understand. If one didn't know better, you'd assume nothing was wrong given Iwata's stay the course attitude.

It would be one thing if there was some glimmer of hope in that investors meeting, but there was nothing that would lead anyone to be positive about the Wii U's chances.
 

~~Hasan~~

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Apr 20, 2013
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Well. I think things will turn around 180 if they release the system for 150$ without the stupid controller. Ps3 and xbox 360 are about 200 at this point. Wiiu is the same level in terms of power but with less games. 150 is a good starting point and i think the system will sell like crazy

Hell i would buy one for 150 just to play nintendo games
 
Jun 21, 2004
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Wii U is the wrong product at the wrong time. The Gamepad is a hard sell for the casual people who bought Wii.

I don't care. I buy Nintendo's systems for first party games and third party exclusives. I enjoyed Gamecube, N64 and Wii pretty much equally regardless of how many systems were sold.

My personal preferences will not make Wii U succeed or fail.
 
Sep 15, 2006
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Well. I think things will turn around 180 if they release the system for 150$ without the stupid controller. Ps3 and xbox one are about 200 at this point. Wiiu is the same level in terms of power but with less games. 150 is a good starting point and i think the system will sell like crazy

Hell i would buy one for 150 just to play nintendo games
Iwata has a counter offer for you:

Same $299 price, the gamepad is still included, and there will be even less content this year than last. Interested?
 
Jun 7, 2004
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I agree that this justifies its existence, but I'd argue that it does not justify its inclusion in every box.
It's included in every box because it needs something to differentiate it from the 8 year old systems already on the market with cheaper hardware and far better libraries and services. The Wii U needed a hook, the GamePad was just a bad hook. But replacing that with a standard classic controller and expecting that to make a difference seems unreasonable to me. I think people put waaaay to much stock into Nintendos first party console games and their appeal. The industry and it's consumers don't stop whenever Nintendo releases a new tentpole title anymore. I don't understand where people get this idea that there are millions and millions of gamers just waiting on the fence to pay $200 for a console with last gen tech just to play first party Nintendo games. As I said earlier, I think a lot of you are out of touch with where the industry is at right now.
 
Oct 5, 2010
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It's included in every box because it needs something to differentiate it from the 8 year old systems already on the market with cheaper hardware and far better libraries and services. The Wii U needed a hook, the GamePad was just a bad hook. But replacing that with a standard classic controller and expecting that to make a difference seems unreasonable to me. I think people put waaaay to much stock into Nintendos first party console games and their appeal. The industry and it's consumers don't stop whenever Nintendo releases a new tentpole title anymore. I don't understand where people get this idea that there are millions and millions of gamers just waiting on the fence to pay $200 for a console with last gen tech just to play first party Nintendo games. As I said earlier, I think a lot of you are out of touch with where the industry is at right now.
At this point I agree. Nintendo's kinda stuck at being a niche developer now where no matter what hardware they produce unless they can secure some kind of exclusive rights to a big time shootbang game like GTA or CoD they're screwed. The communities are firmly planted in the XBL/PSN community and have moved along to the HD Twins. Look at the game sales with the new consoles. There's nothing new that even broke the top 10 on either of the HD Twin consoles. It's all Madden and CoD with a sprinkle of Skylanders.

No one's buying these new systems for whatever exclusives they may have. They're buying them so they can play Call of Duty with their friends the same way they did last generation. Nintendo just cannot break into that and needs to find a new direction that would draw people in. Does that mean doubling down on kids? Maybe if they can secure games like Minecraft and the Lego franchises as exclusives while building their first party support. Then perhaps expanding their niche fandom with more niche franchises like Persona, Mega Man, Shenmue, etc.

They need reasons to make people buy their hardware and the first party titles aren't doing it alone. They won't be able to pull the shoot bang audience away from the HD Twins for the reason stated above so they need to work the problem from other directions.
 

heidern

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Jun 7, 2004
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This is downright delusional. The release list is as dry as the Sahara, and companies are pulling content, not adding it. You are talking as if GameCube caliber numbers are a worst case scenario. The Wii U is in the GameCubes rear view mirror with no hope of catching up.
3rd parties are pretty much irrelevent. It is all about the first party games with Nintendo. This includes their big hitters as well as any new IPs they create.

The Gamecube was in direct competition with Sony and MS so it was always a struggle. The Wii U is in a different category, partly because of the interfaces and to a large extent because of the price diffence. If they start generating momentum there's nothing in the way to stop them.
 
Feb 3, 2007
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I don't think it is as simple as that at all. People don't just buy systems for games. Quite simply, neither PS4 or Xbox One have much going on software wise but they're easily generating more excitement and momentum that Wii U ever did. People are attracted to attractive hardware.
If you replace every instance of "People" in the above with "I personally", then you might have a point, but extending your own desires to represent the multitude is outright wrong.

"People" absolutely do buy systems for the games.

Content is king.

Whether that's a single title, or a sufficiently compelling library in the end doesn't matter; everyone has their own tipping point in deeming a product worthwhile.

For the majority of people, the WiiU has not hit that point.
Some people state that it will never hit that point.
Nintendos only actual strategy, and the one they are pursuing, is to try and create enough compelling content for it to end up profitable.
 
Jan 18, 2014
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If you replace every instance of "People" in the above with "I personally", then you might have a point, but extending your own desires to represent the multitude is outright wrong.

"People" absolutely do buy systems for the games.

Content is king.

Whether that's a single title, or a sufficiently compelling library in the end doesn't matter; everyone has their own tipping point in deeming a product worthwhile.

For the majority of people, the WiiU has not hit that point.
Some people state that it will never hit that point.
Nintendos only actual strategy, and the one they are pursuing, is to try and create enough compelling content for it to end up profitable.
There's no proof at all that superior games = superior sales. Wii is the ultimate example of that. Wii sold well because of it's hardware, not because it had an amazing library of games. That's why Wii U has this gamepad gimmick in the first place. The reason they have to give their systems USPs now is because Good Mario Game and Good Zelda Game aren't enough to sell the system. If it was Gamecube, which has a lot of good games and decent third party support, wouldn't have been destroyed by the PS2 so aggressively.
 
Sep 15, 2006
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3rd parties are pretty much irrelevent. It is all about the first party games with Nintendo. This includes their big hitters as well as any new IPs they create.

The Gamecube was in direct competition with Sony and MS so it was always a struggle. The Wii U is in a different category, partly because of the interfaces and to a large extent because of the price diffence. If they start generating momentum there's nothing in the way to stop them.
I'm being trolled, right?
 
Feb 3, 2007
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I'm wondering if your username is deliberately ironic.

The Wii sold what it did on software, namely Wii Sports.

The GC did not have good third party support. It had third party support, which is a step up from the WiiU, but was still missing major third party releases that the PS2 and Xbox received.
 
Jan 18, 2014
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I'm wondering if your username is deliberately ironic.

The Wii sold what it did on software, namely Wii Sports.

The GC did not have good third party support. It had third party support, which is a step up from the WiiU[/i], but was still missing major third party releases that the PS2 and Xbox received.
But Wii Sports was only successful because of the hardware. The hardware was completely key to the success of the game. If Wii Sports had just been "press A to swing" it wouldn't have meant shit. So to say the games are all that matters is ignoring the obvious issue that the hardware itself needs to stand out or be appealing. Which Wii U simply isn't, and has little chance of ever being, no matter what software they release for it.
 
Oct 27, 2004
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I'm being trolled, right?
No, read this insanity.

Actually this guy reminds me of this super Nintendo fanboy that used to be on NeoGAF before he got banned forever. I wish I could remember his name, started with an "M" I think, but he used to post Nintendo fanfiction in huge posts just like that. It was hilarious watching his wild inaccurate speculation over every announcement they made.

But seriously you should read that link. This is the truest of true belivers.
 
Jan 7, 2009
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No, read this insanity.

Actually this guy reminds me of this super Nintendo fanboy that used to be on NeoGAF before he got banned forever. I wish I could remember his name, started with an "M" I think, but he used to post Nintendo fanfiction in huge posts just like that. It was hilarious watching his wild inaccurate speculation over every announcement they made.

But seriously you should read that link. This is the truest of true belivers.
I believe now.
 
May 19, 2011
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Never happening. They had plenty of opportunities to be leaders in videogame entertainment and offer everything one could want out of a console and did nothing of the sort. Their arrogance, and absolute lack of vision is the death of them. They survive and will continue to survive based on nostalgia alone.
The bolded here is just painfully incorrect. I know that Nintendo isn't popular aound these parts, but Jesus.

People like good video games. Nintendo, for their lack of making phenominal hardware (recently), is very, very good at making video games. The idea that they survive only because some people liked Super Mario Bros back in '85 is riduclous. Even people that want to see Nintendo go third party can acknowledge their software quality is second to none.

For fucks sake. Maybe I need to stop coming to these Nintendo threads.
 
Dec 6, 2012
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I don't think it is as simple as that at all. People don't just buy systems for games. Quite simply, neither PS4 or Xbox One have much going on software wise but they're easily generating more excitement and momentum that Wii U ever did. People are attracted to attractive hardware. Somebody like me looks at Wii U and even if you ignore the gamepad, the interface of the operating system, the online network, the graphical capabilities, it all looks completely prehistoric. There is nothing about it that makes me think I should buy it instead of keeping my PS3 and 360. The only thing that could make me want it is the games, but the best video game in the world isn't going to get me to spend $350 to play it. There's just fundamental issues with the system conceptually that mean releasing an amazing Zelda game on it or a Smash Bros/Mario Kart isn't going to change the public's perception of the system as inferior to the experiences offered on PS4 and Xbox One.

What the hell? No. It is absolutely about games. You say the PS4/XBO "don't have much going on software wise" yet those systems launched with Call Of Duty, Battlefield, Assassin's Creed, 2k, Madden & Fifa. Aka some of the biggest franchises in modern gaming. The PS4 went on to break all records and become the biggest launch in gaming history, even beating the PS2 and XBO went to take third place behind the PS2. People just do not give a crap about what Nintendo is offering on the Wii U.

Don't get me wrong, I also believe HW plays a huge role.. but you seem to be massively downplaying software in your post.
 
Jun 9, 2004
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Well, if those were 100% $300 Wii U systems, that would equal about 6.7 million Wii Us in warehouses.
I'm questioning if it is really that much. Someone said 6 million unsold machines and I put $350 against them each as Nintendo sells them at a loss. No clue what the actual hardware cost is. Even half that in unsold inventory is alarming.
 
Jan 18, 2014
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Then explain the following hugely successful software titles;
- Wii Fit
- Skylanders
- Rock Band
- Dance Central

PROTIP: they all come with peripherals.
I'm not even sure what you're arguing. Could Wii U be successful if they released some amazing software for it with gimmicky new hardware? I mean, sure, maybe. Anything is possible. But to say the system can be successful just with good games is missing the underlying problem that the system as it is is unappealing to people and that that does actually matter and people want to be impressed with their technology purchases.
 
Apr 11, 2013
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Is there any precedent for something like this ever in history? Meaning, a shit product* turning around and becoming a huge success** later on in its life.

*in the eyes of the general public and media

**or successful at all
 
Jan 18, 2014
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What the hell? No. It is absolutely about games. You say the PS4/XBO "don't have much going on software wise" yet those systems launched with Call Of Duty, Battlefield, Assassin's Creed, 2k, Madden & Fifa. Aka some of the biggest franchises in modern gaming. People just do not give a crap about what Nintendo is offering on the Wii U.
And if Xbox One was just an Xbox 360 with a better Kinect, they wouldn't have sold as many consoles. People are buying games for Xbox One and PS4 because they look better and the hardware feels like a meaningful improvement. If all they cared about were the games they wouldn't need to buy a new console to play them; they'd play them on Xbox 360 and PS3.