-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
As bad as things seem for the Wii U, I still think NIntendo can turn things around
- Thread starter Yuripaw
- Start date
Spieler Eins
Member
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
lol What are the direct links, so I can Yeah these?
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
I really hoped that Iwata straight up saying that price drops aren't an option and that they plan to make more games that take advantage of the tablet controller would have stopped the millions of "maybe if they dropped the tablet and made it cheaper it would sell more" posts. Even if it were the right move, it's clear that's never ever going to happen, so can't we drop it now?
The briefing financials said 1.95 for SM3DW. Not bad really.
How much did the other consoles sell in that timeframe? Just interested in how it compares.
Also, dropping the gamepad and sell it seperately seems to be the best idea. It's a nice thing, but not absolutely necessary so far. A console as powerful as the other ones would've changed maybe a little bit but not much - the Gamecube still sold badly and even now I see posts here that show that Nintendos consoles are the "kiddy consoles". Suggestions to change the name or to suddenly drop the console are even worse than the worst decisions that Iwata did. And I have no doubt that Nintendo will survive that one - Apple did survive the 90s too, after all.
Also, dropping the gamepad and sell it seperately seems to be the best idea. It's a nice thing, but not absolutely necessary so far. A console as powerful as the other ones would've changed maybe a little bit but not much - the Gamecube still sold badly and even now I see posts here that show that Nintendos consoles are the "kiddy consoles". Suggestions to change the name or to suddenly drop the console are even worse than the worst decisions that Iwata did. And I have no doubt that Nintendo will survive that one - Apple did survive the 90s too, after all.
SwiftDeath
Member
The Wii U is too expensive, it just is. Will cutting its price result in saving the Wii U? Of course not but it will sell more consoles. Losing the gamepad is the best way to reduce cost and sell more units. Nothing I have heard about the gamepad indicates a significant value proposition to the general public. Just because you like it doesn't mean that the general public wouldn't be far more receptive to a gamepadless cheaper Wii U
thelatestmodel
Junior, please.
OP - you're clearly a big fan of the Wii U. And that's OK.
The solution is not cutting the price to $199. You won't see any increase in sales, because nobody wants it. Only hardcore gamers bought it, and only they know what it even is.
People have a limited amount of time that they can use for leisure, and right now it's hard to build a compelling case for why the average person in the street (i.e. NOT a gamer, just an average guy) should spend that time with the Wii U.
There is no way Nintendo can turn it around, they'll just have to move on and try again. The Virtual Boy failed, so did the Wii U.
The solution is not cutting the price to $199. You won't see any increase in sales, because nobody wants it. Only hardcore gamers bought it, and only they know what it even is.
People have a limited amount of time that they can use for leisure, and right now it's hard to build a compelling case for why the average person in the street (i.e. NOT a gamer, just an average guy) should spend that time with the Wii U.
There is no way Nintendo can turn it around, they'll just have to move on and try again. The Virtual Boy failed, so did the Wii U.
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
Just because you say that dropping the Gamepad would make the general public more receptive to it doesn't make it so.
Without the Gamepad it's really just a last gen console without the library of the PS3 and 360.
SwiftDeath
Member
Your first statement is of course correct. It is entirely my opinion that dropping the gamepad and the price significantly will make the general public more receptive. It does seem to me the most likely conclusion but it is still simply my subjective opinion on the matter.
The Wii U is not the Wii. The general public clearly don't find the Wii U as it stands appealing at its current state [Price, game offerings etc.] What other possible solution for the Wii U do you think will have a more positive effect on sales then dropping the price significantly? And if Nintendo need to drop the price what do you think they are most likely to do other than drop the gamepad?
Astral Dog
Member
The Wii U is a failure and its always going to be a failure, but i think many people are focusing too much on the "turn things around", i dont think the tc said that the Wii U could be a great success, just that it can sell better, many people are hoping or expecting Nintendo to just drop supporting their system and somehow make another more powerful than the PS4, even if they are already thinking about their next systems, they should keep making games for the Wii U for the next year at least , the best games on Wii U are yet to come, current owners at least deserve that.
If later, games like Bayonetta 2 or X could have a chance on another system, i would be ok with that
If later, games like Bayonetta 2 or X could have a chance on another system, i would be ok with that
If they console had an ice cream machine built-in, that would also set it apart from the competition, but it wouldn't matter either. The thing that always sets Nintendo consoles apart from the competition are their quality games, not hardware features that are there just for the sake of it.
With former consoles, the hardware innovations were present in service of the software. The Wii Remote was there to make Wii Sports and games like Skyward Sword. The analog stick was there to make games like Mario 64.
The gamepad is just there because "yay, tablets". This time, the hardware preceded the software, and it is evident in the scarcity of compelling use cases. It cannot set the console apart from the competition because it's a badly thought-of and now failed concept.
I very much doubt they can turn Wii U around. Maybe they'll be able to make it sell a bit better, but turning it into a very successful platform? Doubtful. There's very little they can do at this point, they make several big mistakes at the conception stage and now they'll have to live with it for a few years.
Edit: I realize the OP isn't saying Wii U can turn into a Wii, just speaking generally.
Edit: I realize the OP isn't saying Wii U can turn into a Wii, just speaking generally.
Apophis2036
Banned
Iwata is not going to price drop the console with no software to support a price drop. They done the same thing last year by waiting for Pikmin, Zelda and Wonderful 101 to drop to $299.
I think we will see a further drop to $249 and a large marketing push in May for Mario Kart 8's release.
I think we will see a further drop to $249 and a large marketing push in May for Mario Kart 8's release.
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
I get that you don't like the Gamepad. I like it. I like the off tv play. Your opinion is as important as mine.
If they remove the Gamepad and lower the price I suspect no one will care because they can just buy a PS3 or 360 with similar capabilities and a bigger library.
What makes you think price is what is keeping most people from buying a Wii U?
First and foremost the Wii U is a video game console, after more than a year on the market it still does not have games that'll make people buy this console.
3rd party support is gone and Nintendo is clearly not able to release a steady stream of games.
The above situation will not change, therefore Wii U is screwed.
3rd party support is gone and Nintendo is clearly not able to release a steady stream of games.
The above situation will not change, therefore Wii U is screwed.
Nikodemos
Member
The price is one of the problems; the Wii U has several of them.
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
Exactly and removing the Gamepad will only make Wii U even more unappealing as it will just be the 3rd HD Twin with a crap library.
I appreciate it as an accessory, I just don't see why it should be bundled. Off-screen play is great, but other stuff like the microphone/clouds-gimmick in SM3DW is just annoying. It forces me to switch controllers. I had a blast playing NintendoLand with friends, and I probably would have bought it just for that, but that was basically it.
What makes you think that the GamePad is what keeps people buying the Wii U?
I think that the group of people that would buy a cheap Wii U for Nintendo games, once (1) the first-party library is better filled and (2) the direct pressure from PS4/XBO is less suffocating [1], is much bigger than the group that buys the console specifically because of the GamePad; not big, but bigger.
[1] Some people surly ignored the Wii U because they were and are saving their money for the PS4/XBO. Those people might be ready again for a second console after the initial rush and hype for the new consoles has slowed down.
Drunk Zeppelin
Neo Member
Im happy the 3DS is doing well, imagine what situation Nintendo would be in without the 3DS?
SwiftDeath
Member
Not to be debbie downer but the 3DS is not meeting nintendo's own expectations and while it's doing well I'm fairly sure it's not tracking as well as previous handhelds by nintendo
This opinion has been expressed too often in face of the facts. I now believe that anyone who thinks "Nintendo can turn the Wii U around" in reality feels they wish Nintendo could turn it around. Believing something can turn around, and wishing it could are two different concepts.
RobFox64tm
Member
Look, I love Nintendo, I love my Wii U, and I am stoked for a lot of its upcoming games, but let's be realistic here; the Wii U is far beyond any kind of meaningful turnaround. Be grateful Nintendo still intends to support it for the time being, enjoy the remaining games that come out for the platform, and anticipate what Nintendo does for the next cycle. They've confirmed that there will be another one at least, so it's not until information starts to surface on those plans that we can begin to speculate on any kind of success that Nintendo might find in the console space. Wii U just doesn't have what it takes, sadly.
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
It's bundled because it's part of the console. You may as well ask why the Wiimote was bundled.
I don't think people are buying the Wii U. I just think that the Gamepad is the only thing that makes the Wii U something other than a late HD Twin.
Your plan is based on a better library. That's not coming anytime soon if it ever comes. HD development is apparently hard for Nintendo.
I actually bought a Wii U AFTER the launch of PS4/One. I simply have no interest in a more powerful 360 and PS3. That's just me though.
I just need the Wii U to stick around for Zelda U, Bayonetta 2, X and FE x SMT. I don't think anything will give that console a U turn at this point but I just hope Nintendo follows through with their promises before ditching it. Metroid is my favorite first party series from them as well and they aren't winning any browny points for me by not having anything announced for Wii U or 3DS.
If Nintendo doesn't follow through with what is already planned for Wii U, it will be the last console I ever buy from them.
If Nintendo doesn't follow through with what is already planned for Wii U, it will be the last console I ever buy from them.
Drunk Zeppelin
Neo Member
You are right I didnt think of it like that until now. Makes me wonder if Nintendo will eventually end up like Sega.
That's like answering "Why is he sick?" with "Because he got sick."
What good is being different just for the sake of being different? The N64's analog stick or the Wii Remote were made in service of gameplay ideas. Mario 64, Wii Sports and Skyward Sword could not have been made without it, and those were all full-featured games centered around those hardware features. Conversely, the GamePad was made because "yay, tablets", and the software is forced to use it as an afterthough for non-essential features. Aside from mini-games, even Nintendo has failed to integrate it into its games in an essential, non-optional way.
Making the GamePad optional would not make it disapear, anyway. People could still buy it for off-screen play and the few games that need it. It can just help the console. As for the argument, that nobody would support it, if it's not in the box: that train has already left. Nobody is supporting the console anyway. You can't do damage where damage has already been done.
SwiftDeath
Member
Well as other people usually stipulate when this conversation comes up Sega was out of money at the time of the dreamcast pretty much whereas Nintendo could probably survive 2 more gens of failure with the money they have
Drunk Zeppelin
Neo Member
Another good point! Man I should just stop posting before I end up digging myself into a hole
RobFox64tm
Member
A fear I have too, but I honestly don't think Nintendo has a choice but to continue producing software for the machine. Their next hardware cycle is at least two years off, and while releases may be sparse after this year, they will still likely be up to Nintendo's high quality standards. We'll see if they announce anything new this year at E3. Zelda should be a lock, as it sounds like a fair amount of development has gone into it thus far based on some of Anouma and Miyamoto's comments following last years E3. Metroid might be up in the air though, but it would be the perfect game for Nintendo to launch with a new console that might potentially be targeted towards the more core gamers out there.
I believe that Nintendo's original plan was for Nintendo Land to be the game that sells the Gamepad to everyone. They wanted that game to be the "Wii Sports" of the console. Obviously that didn't pan out but I think it's obvious that Nintendo had a plan and vision going into the Wii U that just didn't pan out.
Also, going back a second,
A few people responded to this question talking about the Wii U (not was I was referring to) and the PSP Go (more what I was talking about, but that doesn't really give us more incite since part of the reason it was pulled was because it didn't bring retailers any software sales). I was more thinking about situations like the Saturn, and how retailers addressed Sega, and how Sega responded to it. I always hear stories about retailers pulling the Sega Saturn but I never hear much backstory on that.
Hero of Canton
Member
That doesn't make already-released games unplayable, though - not to mention any in development that might be planning to use it. And 3D wasn't the 3DS's only hook. Quite apart from that, Iwata's already said Nintendo will double down on GamePad, and we'll start to see evidence of that from around E3 onwards.
I like the Wii U. I like the GamePad. I like off-screen play. I've played probably ten really good games on it, and I'm sure we'll see five or six more really good ones this year. That's enough for me, but it's not for most people. Let's face it: even a price cut and a bundle with Mario Kart won't be enough to save it.
Mambo Maniac
Neo Member
The Wii-u is doomed to be the next Gamecube, but worse off. The Wii-u controller makes the console more expensive so they cant just drop the price without taking a big hit to their pocketbooks. They won't do that, so for the next year or two, it will flounder and they drop prices as they can, but nothing is going to really save it.
A $200 or less price for the unit would be nice but won't happen, and most of the games rely on the controller for menus and such, and the Wii-u without it would be gimped in the games it could play.
Nintendo is better off just working on first party releases , hoping for more sales, dropping the price when they can, and go a different direction for their future console.
I really believe a console/handheld hybrid will be their next system. it will be portable like a 3DS but have a dock with console like abilities. That will be their next console. I'd love for them to make something powerful and really next gen, but I am not counting on it.
A $200 or less price for the unit would be nice but won't happen, and most of the games rely on the controller for menus and such, and the Wii-u without it would be gimped in the games it could play.
Nintendo is better off just working on first party releases , hoping for more sales, dropping the price when they can, and go a different direction for their future console.
I really believe a console/handheld hybrid will be their next system. it will be portable like a 3DS but have a dock with console like abilities. That will be their next console. I'd love for them to make something powerful and really next gen, but I am not counting on it.
Enter The 36 Chambers
Member
Even Nintendo knows it's game over.
Cancelling a season pass mid way in? If that doesn't tell you, well shit enjoy having your head.in the sand.
It's done.
Cancelling a season pass mid way in? If that doesn't tell you, well shit enjoy having your head.in the sand.
It's done.
Hero of Canton
Member
Nintendo just doesn't have the resources to produce a console with the power of the other two. If it did, it'd almost certainly be more expensive than both Xbox One and PS4. Nintendo is a games company and nothing else - it might have a big war chest to draw on in times of crisis, but it doesn't have bottomless pockets, nor can it offset any losses in its gaming business with profits from its other outlets. Quite apart from that, it's struggling to release games for its current hardware in a timely fashion, and that would only get worse with a more powerful device.
Some people seem to think that it would increase third-party support, apparently forgetting that the last time it released a console on a similar technological footing to its rivals - ie GameCube - it *still* struggled for third-party support. It would take a concerted effort over several years to even begin to change that situation.
Some people seem to think that it would increase third-party support, apparently forgetting that the last time it released a console on a similar technological footing to its rivals - ie GameCube - it *still* struggled for third-party support. It would take a concerted effort over several years to even begin to change that situation.
axisofweevils
Holy crap! Today's real megaton is that more than two people can have the same first name.
I still think that Mario Kart is most likely game to cause a sales increase. The fact that Mario Kart Wii sold another 1 million copies this year shows there's still a lot of love for the game.
Yes, I know, WiiUChalkboard.jpg, but so far the Wii U has only had two potential system sellers released, and their potential was killed by incredibly bad timing.
Of course, "turn around" is subjective - I don't think it will ever be anywhere near as popular as the PS4 / XB1.
Yes, I know, WiiUChalkboard.jpg, but so far the Wii U has only had two potential system sellers released, and their potential was killed by incredibly bad timing.
Of course, "turn around" is subjective - I don't think it will ever be anywhere near as popular as the PS4 / XB1.
https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAABnUYnaRQrqMg
https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAAAYUKlCZhOZdw
Just don't report me. I'm surprised they're still up.
https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAABnUYnaRQrqMg
https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAAAYUKlCZhOZdw
Just don't report me. I'm surprised they're still up.
I like how they're under the Life With Horses community lol. Love that place
SwiftDeath
Member
Another good point! Man I should just stop posting before I end up digging myself into a hole
lol I wouldn't worry about it. You brought up pretty usual talking points and I simply responded with Gaf's usual response to them. No biggie
Vane_MagicCity
Banned
The problem lies with your question, not my answer. Asking why a primary controller is bundled with the console is a silly thing to ask.
You can look at the Gamepad as a tablet but if you look at your Nexus 7, you will see that the Gamepad is more like the bottom half of a DS/3DS.
1) Currently the Gamepad is not sold separately and I doubt Nintendo has any plans to do so.
2) Buying the Gamepad separate would likely be more expensive than buying it bundled with the console. For those who would buy it, they would be paying more in the end.
3) The Gamepad is not why devs aren't supporting the Wii U, it's the poor install base. The install base is small because the library is small.
Again, that misses the point. The reasons, or lack thereof, behind that specific controller being the primary controller is the issue at hand. First, there are obvious alternative controllers (Wii Remote, Pro Controller), and second and most importantly, the GamePad is just not being used by almost every game on the system in an essential, and non-optional way.
The issue at hand is that nobody, even Nintendo, has managed to justify the GamePads inclusion in in every box, given that there are alternative, cheaper, and arguably better controllers.
Right now, those who don't want it and question its justification, have to pay to buy it. Tough luck either way.
Again, that was not my point. My point is that dropping the controller right now would not damage its utilization by developers, because developers are not using it anyway. I wasn't talking about the GamePad being a direct reason why developers are avoiding the system. That was not a point raised directly by you, but a point that many others usually raise in response to the point I was trying to convey.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
The Gamepads existence is justified in local multiplayer experiences.
Presumably Nintendo assumed more self-proclaimed hardcore gamers had real life friends they like to game with than actually do.
This is also the explanation for why they didn't realise tangential online gaming features like party chat is such a must have for that same crowd.
They should bet heavily on Mario Kart. Lots of ads, demos in stores and events, bundles, you name it. Nintendo is usually afraid to go all out in these things, but it's time to step it up.
I agree that this justifies its existence, but I'd argue that it does not justify its inclusion in every box.
If it exists it has to be included. Thus we have justified its inclusion in every box.
Muppet of a Man
Member
I know what he said; it's a moot point since it's a dumb business decision. If you want the Wii U ecosystem to survive in some tangible form, you must adapt or die.
They seriously need to price the hardware accordingly. It is basically a Gen 7 machine. So, it's pricing must reflect that. Sacrifices would need to be made to get there (see dropping gamepad).
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Because Nintendo think of consoles as gaming devices hooked up to the main family television that people play together, not as gaming devices hooked up to one of many different screens around the house played in solitude.
By that very reasoning, Nintendo should have included the Balance Board in every box.