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As bad as things seem for the Wii U, I still think NIntendo can turn things around

The only thing Nintendo has to offer is 1st Party games. Sure there are some 3rd party titles here and there, but Ps3 and Xbox360 are much cheaper and have much more 3rd party support.

So Nintendo can't appeal to the multiplat market because they don't have enough multiplat titles.
Only Nintendofans who are interested in Nintendos own titles are left and I just don't think that this market is bigger than 15-20mil units.

It not like there were no games for WiiU in 2013. There were quite a few, but non of them really bumped the sales and I don't think that this will be any different in 2014. Maybe even worse since Ps4 and XboxOne are now out.

I don't know what you would label as "successful" but I don't see the WiiU reaching 20mil LTD.
 

Effer

Member
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CassSept

Member
I will admit, there are fewer and fewer holdouts as the months drag on. I remember six months ago the strong vocal supporters were sure things would pickup last fall. When Nintendo's first half of 2014 consists of two games, you know it's bad.

I just wish in the next 9 months we were getting a compelling first party game (or any at all since all that is coming from third parties are 2 Lego games and licensed shovelware) that isn't sequel to best-selling Wii game #X. The only game on the horizon, at all, that fits the bill is errr, Hyrule Warriors? And eventually X?
 
This has been suggested before, but essentially by removing the gamepad, you turn it into an identical console next to the PS3/360, only with substantially less games, less third party support, zero/poor online support, and the benefit of Nintendo releases.
 
I just wish in the next 9 months we were getting a compelling first party game (or any at all since all that is coming from third parties are 2 Lego games and licensed shovelware) that isn't sequel to best-selling Wii game #X. The only game on the horizon, at all, that fits the bill is errr, Hyrule Warriors? And eventually X?

Compared to Nintendo's typical release calendar of past consoles, the Wii U's second year is mega bad. Smash is the highlight of this year and I highly doubt X will make it to the states in 2014. So you've got Donkey Kong, Mario Kart and Smash Bros. All fun games. But seeing as those are the main releases for the entire year, it's bad bad bad.
 

Meia

Member
When Nintendo themselves can't come up with any games that use the consoles "gimmick" effectively, you know they're screwed. It's almost like they sent the thing out to die to begin with.



Seriously, if they themselves can't be bothered to come out with games that showcase the Wii U's unique feature, did they expect third parties to instead?
 

Asd202

Member
All this talks about dropping the gamepad are pointless. In recent investors meeting Iwata said that there adding even more pad functionality to there new games. They won't drop the pad ever.
 
When Nintendo themselves can't come up with any games that use the consoles "gimmick" effectively, you know they're screwed. It's almost like they sent the thing out to die to begin with.



Seriously, if they themselves can't be bothered to come out with games that showcase the Wii U's unique feature, did they expect third parties to instead?

Oh they are doubling down on the gamepad, didn't you hear?
 
All this talks about dropping the gamepad are pointless. In recent investors meeting Iwata said that there adding even more pad functionality to there new games. They won't drop the pad ever.

Let's see these new games first, because he sure as shit isn't talking about the stuff coming this year.
 

w00zey

Member
First party and indie titles is really all the system has ever needed honestly.
This is my thought. This is why people migrated to other systems for primary gaming. Getting a cheap wii U for the few Nintendo releases a year becomes worth it over the long run.

Though Nintendo needs to realize this and increase first party teams and put the price point way below that of competitors that offer more choices.
 

Cheerilee

Member
Sorry but throwing around random numbers does not help. Where do you get these numbers? Why would all units be made by December (the FY ends in march)? Orders for the holidays are normally in by October. If they have base line of 500k per month and cam ramp up to 1M short (2-4 weeks) and 2M long term (8 weeks), they still could produce a lot. And of course plus the ones they have in stock. Even if I take your numbers -> 9.5m target - 4.5m aborted - 2.5m sold by March -> 2.5m stock by march. Not that much difference to argue imho.

Nintendo historically gets the bulk of their sales in November/December, and crashes hard until March (when the fiscal year ends). This picture was posted in the thread for their latest results.

nintendo_operatinginc6drg9.png


After the 3DS launch and two years of dunking their head in red ink, Nintendo had one blip of sales at the Wii U launch. After the launch (and that MASSIVE dip post-launch), it was common news that the Wii U sold less than 500k worldwide in the first six months of the fiscal year.

In the face of that news, at the end of October, Iwata vowed that Nintendo would still sell 9 million units total in the fiscal year. He was plainly betting on selling 8.5 million units in November/December. They sold 2 million.

It seems really obvious that means Nintendo has 6.5 million units that didn't sell, but you're suggesting that they don't have that many, because production is flexible and can be ramped down. It seems crazy to think that Iwata changed his bet while the results for November/December were coming in, or that even if he did, that manufacturing would have been able to respond that quickly.

Those 4.5 million numbers I threw out are admittedly random, and were chosen to point out the absurdity of the idea.
 

McLovin

Member
The sad thing is that they could have easily avoided this problem they have. The big mistake they made was blowing that 1 year lead. Even though they have the most next-gen games people still think the Wii U has no games. Could you imagine if they launched with SMG, 6 months in MK8, then released a new 3D Zelda right when the ps4/x1 came out? They would have sold like crazy.
 
You're right, but only in the same way that Michael Jackson's "Dangerous" was a terrible seller compared to "Thriller". It's only true in a relative sense. Zelda and Metroid are franchises that actually stir the passions of the hardcore gamer, the one who is willing to spend big bucks on your console at launch rather than wait for a price drop. A new HD 3D Zelda COULD HAVE BEEN an important game driving EARLY WiiU sales if it had been prepped for release in 2012 or 2013. Same for a new HD Metroid. But, for whatever reason, Nintendo focused on different properties, believing more in the casual gamer market, to their detriment. It's too late now, and while they have an obligation to continue support for the console at least through 2014 and until whatever's next for them is ready, they'd do well to remember that those 1-2 million Zelda and Metroid fans are also your early adopters.


These "hardcore gamers" that would be swayed to buy a console just for a Zelda game either already have a Wii U or at least have it on their radar. Reaching this market is NOT Nintendo's problem. Their problem is that outside of the Wii this is the only market of gamers they have been able to reach in the last 20 years with their home console business, and that over the course of those 20 years, the group of people willing to buy an entire console just for a handful of Zelda and Mario games is getting smaller and smaller. They can't afford to rely on them. That's the entire problem of their console business.
 

desbrisay

Neo Member
That would have been problematic, given that Wii U doesn't run Wii games in HD.

It should have though, playing SMG2 in HD on my PC is amazing, I should be able to do this on my Wii U. But I realize all my Nintendo wishes will never come true.
 
As long as Nintendo keeps putting out first party games, I don't really care. Give me my X, Zelda U, Mario Kart, Smash Bros, another Mario game, and I'll be fine. Personally, I have never cared about third parties on Nintendo consoles (well, post SNES consoles anyways) - I usually get those on my other systems just like I will this gen. I buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo games, nothing else.
 
The sad thing is that they could have easily avoided this problem they have. The big mistake they made was blowing that 1 year lead. Even though they have the most next-gen games people still think the Wii U has no games. Could you imagine if they launched with SMG, 6 months in MK8, then released a new 3D Zelda right when the ps4/x1 came out? They would have sold like crazy.
The same Nintendo that was struggling with HD development? That delayed Donkey Kong?

It is good to have dreams.
 

lenovox1

Member
These "hardcore gamers" that would be swayed to buy a console just for a Zelda game either already have a Wii U or at least have it on their radar. Reaching this market is NOT Nintendo's problem. Their problem is that outside of the Wii this is the only market of gamers they have been able to reach in the last 20 years with their home console business, and that over the course of those 20 years, the group of people willing to buy an entire console just for a handful of Zelda and Mario games is getting smaller and smaller. They can't afford to rely on them. That's the entire problem of their console business.

Exactly. They need third parties just as much as their competitors do. And on that front, the Wii U has become a lost cause.
 
The only thing losing the Gamepad does is help satisfy the egos of Third Party Developers, the likes of whose games you won't be playing on that system anyway, because there are either more powerful systems to play them on, or more likely the case, the games are kind of suckish, because it's mainstream drawl.
 

Petrae

Member
The ship has sailed for big third party publishers, and frankly I don't care.

That's too bad, because I actually do care about third-party support. WiiU not having any means that it's automatically put behind any another console, if I decided to get one. As a sports game fan, I'm forced to spend $400+ on a PS4 or XBO first before reloading and paying $300 for a WiiU-- and then I have to consider what the WiiU's future would be once I had the money to buy one.

Honestly, I would have ideally picked a WiiU-only generation for me. I don't wish to pay yearly for online play, I think Nintendo's first-party software is generally worth owning, and Off-TV play is a cool feature. Unfortunately, I need more than just Nintendo software to justify spending so much money on WiiU. I'm not really interested in the indie scene, either.

When all is said and done, I'll just sit out this generation entirely. I have issues with each of the three platforms, and my money is better spent elsewhere. It's too bad, though, because had a few chips fallen differently for the WiiU, I might have actually bought one.
 

ryanofcall

Member
Nintendo doesn't need 3rd party exclusives. They need multiplats from 3rd parties.
They have exclusives and that's all they will get. But that is not enough.

So yeah, you can play Wonderful 101 and Bayonetta 2 only on Wii U, so what? Does that mean you can play Mass Effect 4 or Metal Gear Rising or Dark Souls 2 on it?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying...

Nintendo only sold 2.41 million units last year. While those millions likely agree with you, that is not enough for the Wii U to be a success. Sony learned this lesson with the PS3. Third party games are an important draw for gamers. If your platform doesn't have them with a similar quality to those games on your competitor's console, then you will fail. This is a business. It is not about pleasing a few hardcore fans but about getting a large enough install base to make money.

Yes that's what I said: they need thirdparty multiplatforms, but why are people asking for third party exclusives?
 

Exile20

Member
Mario Kart 8 in may, that's all i care about. A Metroid game would be nice, then i'm fine with it dying.

PERSONALLY I am happy with the Wii U, got the games I wanted, I have a backlog and this year, even more games than I can handle. During this time Nintendo is reinventing themselves and making changes.
 
I love the Mario games and I will buy the WiiU when it's 150-200 dollars, their in effectiveness in competing with third party games have hamstrung the whole business. Those exclusives sell between 6 and 12 million units so I am sure there are more sales down the line... but I don't see a long tail beyond that.
 

flozuki

Member
Well you might like to play the same games over and over but I think you might be in the minority. And as I said if they decide to call it a day you'll be replaying those games an awful lot.

It might be that I am the minority, nevertheless this is my opinion. And for me a classic has to have replayability. I know that a lot of people like to jump from game to game and there is nothing wrong with that. But I am not able to enjoy games this way.

In general I don't see any danger in terms of Wii U software (from Nintendo). I will get MK, I will get Donkey, I will get Zelda, I will get X, I will get Bayonetta, I will get Smash, I will get Fire Emblem and I am sure there is more. And I am sure most of these will be high quality titles.
For me that is more than enough to be relaxed and just wait how these turn out and what Nintendo will probably announce in the future. I don't see them calling it a day too soon.
 

ZOONAMI

Junior Member
Remove gamepad +

Firmware upgrade for br movie support +

Traditonal HDD +

Name change and advertising +

$199

= Relative success
 
Sorry but throwing around random numbers does not help. Where do you get these numbers? Why would all units be made by December (the FY ends in march)? Orders for the holidays are normally in by October. If they have base line of 500k per month and cam ramp up to 1M short (2-4 weeks) and 2M long term (8 weeks), they still could produce a lot. And of course plus the ones they have in stock. Even if I take your numbers -> 9.5m target - 4.5m aborted - 2.5m sold by March -> 2.5m stock by march. Not that much difference to argue imho.

You are forgetting the lag times introduced due to shipping and the actual production itself. I doubt that Nintendo would ramp up and down that fast but even if they did there would be a delay is before those changes were seen at the stores. It is also unlikely that once the component parts are ordered that the consoles based on those parts are not made. Each of the following steps takes time that you aren't accounting for.


  1. Order components and ship to Japan/China
  2. Assembly/production of consoles
  3. Shipping to retailers
On October 30, 2013 Nintendo maintained its 9 million Wii U sales forecast for the fiscal year through March 2014, despite only having sold 460,000 consoles since April. So with 5 months left Iwata stated that they would sell 8,540,000 million more units.

Here is the amount I calculate that the Wii U would have to sell per month in order to reach its 9 million goal and follow the 2012 hardware trend of sales. (trend data taken from graph below) The percentage shown is that month's percent of total for the 5 month period from Nov 2012 to Mar 2013. I used that percentage as a weight to calculate the expected sales per month to meet the 9 million target.

Code:
Expected Wii U Sales per Month 
Needed to Hit 9 Million Mar 31, 2014 target
=============================================================
Nov	31%	2,606,103
Dec	41%	3,520,244
Jan	 6%	  545,276
Feb	12%	1,010,366
Mar	10%	  858,009


When Iwata stated on Oct 30 that they would sell 9 million consoles by March 31, the November consoles were already on the store shelves, the December consoles were being shipped and the January consoles were being made. That makes 6.5 million consoles already committed to be on the shelves when the statement was made. The best case scenario would be that after the Nov sales, Nintendo decided to cut production. At that time the consoles that would appear on the store shelves in February already had their parts orders or were being assembled. These would still be made since Nintendo has already paid for them. That brings February into our total bringing the total committed to 7.5 million. The only thing Nintendo could have affected at that point would be the consoles that would show up in March. The prior month's consoles would either have had their components bought, were being made, in transit, or on store shelves.

That means that the best case scenario is that Nintendo had 7.5 million consoles made and only sold 2.41. That leaves 5 million left over which would take 2+ years to sell off at their current rate. Remember this assumes that they decided to totally cut production early December and that no new Wii Us are being made now even though Nintendo still has to pay for the fixed factory costs that they are obligated for until the production run was to be completed.

ChartOfTheDay_723_Video_game_hardware_sales_in_the_United_States__n.jpg
 
Many of these "What they should do" theories sound functionally unsound. From the chipset design and manufacturing to the momentum of the 'Wii' brand, the system is just completely structurally unsound. It would 100% be better for Nintendo to just be quiet on this machine and focus on the 3DS until the next big 3DS successor or whatever their next market is going to be.
 
Nintendo will continue to sell Wii U's at a slow pace, as people will definitely pick up DK, Smash, Kart, X, Bayonetta, Hyrule Warriors, Yoshi's Epic Yarn, next Zelda, etc. It will be a distant 3rd place in sales compared to XBONEPS4, but the quality of the games will be good, and Nintendo will just ride it out until next gen. People need to just get over the whole Nintendoomed/Wii U is garbage thing. Quality games are there, and will continue to come.


Ultimately, it depends on what you mean by "turn it around." In terms of the games I think it's already good. In terms of sales, I don't even see this console reaching Gamecube numbers honestly. It's sad, but Nintendo needs to just ensure they can at least get past Dreamcast numbers.
 

Opiate

Member
I want to emphasize that many people who are so adamantly declaring the Wii U dead are not "Nintendo haters," or even ambivalent to the situation.

Put very succinctly: people want Nintendo to learn from their mistakes -- and everyone makes mistakes, that is not an indictment of Nintendo in particular. However, if Nintendo is unwilling to admit mistakes until absolutely everything has completely fallen apart, that greatly retards the learning process. By contrast, if you can admit a mistake as soon as it's even a small problem (let alone a big one, let alone a "our entire business is in jeopardy" problem), you can adjust and learn faster.

Some people obviously enjoy Nintendo's struggles, sure. But others are frustrated by Nintendo's unwillingness to change unless absolutely forced to by an existential crisis. They want Nintendo to learn faster; sticking with the Wii U slows that learning process down.
 

ZOONAMI

Junior Member
You are forgetting the lag times introduced due to shipping and the actual production itself. I doubt that Nintendo would ramp up and down that fast but even if they did there would be a delay is before those changes were seen at the stores. It is also unlikely that once the component parts are ordered that the consoles based on those parts are not made. Each of the following steps takes time that you aren't accounting for.


  1. Order components and ship to Japan/China
  2. Assembly/production of consoles
  3. Shipping to retailers
On October 30, 2013 Nintendo maintained its 9 million Wii U sales forecast for the fiscal year through March 2014, despite only having sold 460,000 consoles since April. So with 5 months left Iwata stated that they would sell 8,540,000 million more units.

Here is the amount I calculate that the Wii U would have to sell per month in order to reach its 9 million goal and follow the 2012 hardware trend of sales. (trend data taken from graph below) The percentage shown is that month's percent of total for the 5 month period from Nov 2012 to Mar 2013. I used that percentage as a weight to calculate the expected sales per month to meet the 9 million target.

Code:
Expected Wii U Sales per Month 
Needed to Hit 9 Million Mar 31, 2014 target
=============================================================
Nov	31%	2,606,103
Dec	41%	3,520,244
Jan	 6%	  545,276
Feb	12%	1,010,366
Mar	10%	  858,009


When Iwata stated on Oct 30 that they would sell 9 million consoles by March 31, the November consoles were already on the store shelves, the December consoles were being shipped and the January consoles were being made. That makes 6.5 million consoles already committed to be on the shelves when the statement was made. The best case scenario would be that after the Nov sales, Nintendo decided to cut production. At that time the consoles that would appear on the store shelves in February already had their parts orders or were being assembled. These would still be made since Nintendo has already paid for them. That brings February into our total bringing the total committed to 7.5 million. The only thing Nintendo could have affected at that point would be the consoles that would show up in March. The prior month's consoles would either have had their components bought, were being made, in transit, or on store shelves.

That means that the best case scenario is that Nintendo had 7.5 million consoles made and only sold 2.41. That leaves 5 million left over which would take 2+ years to sell off at their current rate. Remember this assumes that they decided to totally cut production early December and that no new Wii Us are being made now even though Nintendo still has to pay for the fixed factory costs that they are obligated for until the production run was to be completed.

ChartOfTheDay_723_Video_game_hardware_sales_in_the_United_States__n.jpg


I would assume that their actual production numbers were not any where near 9 million units for the fiscal year. Probably half that or less.
 
Main mistakes in my opinion Nintendo did, and that everyone could see as mistakes:

- Concept and hardware design. Gamepad concept proved itself a failure. PowerPC based hardware cut out many otherwise assured multiplaform releases if Nintendo opted for more standard architecture (and a little more power maybe).

- Presenting the console one year and a half before release, with a confusing focus and no software. Nonsense. Typical Nintendo mistake, btw (N64, GC).

- Timing. They'd better come out along their nextgen competitors, and with a good lineup. WiiU is now already seen as oldgen, also thanks to its confusing tie to the Wii.

- Naming and marketing. Outside gaming circles, apparently no one aknowledged the existence of a new Nintendo system. People started speaking about nextgen with the announcment of PS4.

- Price. Here Nintendo became arrogant, and released their most expensive hardware ever. Justified? Hell no.

- Software drought. Wrong games at launch and a big black hole thereafter. What's the point of release a console without the games being ready?

- Third party embargo. WiiU has been almost dead already since after launch. Months of nothing on the shelves, or the same usual 5-6 games don't certainlt help
selling an expensive videogame system.

I'm under the impression too much went wrong this time to allow Nintendo to recover WiiU. It's paradoxical for such big companies to allow something like this to happen, but here imho we can see a such amateurish approach to market like it hadn't been seen since 3DO or Jaguar launches, which in fact couldn't help but die.
 

Platy

Member
They can't. This thing is breaking all kinds of records for how poor it's selling.

What ?

Do you even know how bad the OUYA is selling NOW ? =P
How bad things like the Jaguar and the CDi sold ?

Even in the Nintendo-Microsoft-Sony line it is still selling better than the vita in most places =P
 

prwxv3

Member
What ?

Do you even know how bad the OUYA is selling NOW ? =P
How bad things like the Jaguar and the CDi sold ?

Even in the Nintendo-Microsoft-Sony line it is still selling better than the vita in most places =P

please tell me this is a joke. And while vita is dead too it is not as important to Sony as the WiiU is to Nintendo.
 

drspeedy

Member
I'm under the impression too much went wrong this time to allow Nintendo to recover WiiU. It's paradoxical for such big companies to allow something like this to happen, but here imho we can see a such amateurish approach to market like it hadn't been seen since 3DO or Jaguar launches, which in fact couldn't help but die.

Sadly very true. And this all started in essentially 2008 when Ninty apparently turned off the tap on development, leaving 2010-2012 uninhabited wastelands for new releases on Wii, and somehow, inexplicably, resulted in a similar wasteland for Wii U launch. What I'm saying is that they lost the fight 7 years ago, the Wii U situation is just the tip of the iceberg,


Squandered inertia is deadly in this business.
 
The console would sell to the 3DS crowd if Nintendo removed the gamepad and replaced it with a pro controller or a wiimote with nunchuck and then lowered the price to $149.99.
 
Many of these "What they should do" theories sound functionally unsound. From the chipset design and manufacturing to the momentum of the 'Wii' brand, the system is just completely structurally unsound. It would 100% be better for Nintendo to just be quiet on this machine and focus on the 3DS until the next big 3DS successor or whatever their next market is going to be.

Pretty much. Nintendo just needs to punt on the Wii U and try wasting as little money and resources as possible as slowly phasing it out over the next 12-18 months. This idea that, over a year in, it's the name that is the Wii Us problem and all it needs is to be called Super Wii or NES 2 or some other fan service-y name that nobody but die hard Nintendo fans (who provably already have a Wii u) would give a shit about or find novelty in will change the systems fortunes comes across as so painfully out of touch you'd think Iwata himself were saying it.
 
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