Snyder put Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman on the movie screen together for the first time and made a dud film.
That is a feat I don't think he gets enough credit for.
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'Batman v Superman' Fallout: Warner Bros. Shakes Up Executive Roles
- Thread starter ryan299
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Snyder put Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman on the movie screen together for the first time and made a dud film.
That is a feat I don't think he gets enough credit for.
Captin Quacker
Member
But somehow not a flop
His intro to Watchmen is probably not only one of the greatest intros in cinema, but it also set the pace and gave great backstory for the film without saying a word. What ways did he miss the point?
You have to work HARD to screw it up. Like, actively plot for months like you're Lex Luthor himself planning to take down Superman, and do everything in your power to somehow make a film with the three most beloved DC heroes of all time that span nearly a century of great lore with proven successes that resonated with millions of people across generations in an era that's more accepting and hungry for good comic book movies than ever before and somehow screw it all up.
And yet here we are. With an R-rated Deadpool film beating it at the domestic box office.
Can we put an end to this?
Oxford Dictionary time.
"Flop"
- informal. A total disaster."Total disaster" is relative, of course. To budget? Perhaps not a flop. To expectations? Oh, totally. To public mindshare? Even more so. It wasn't a financial flop, but as a film it was a flop - a total and complete failure of putting the three most popular DC heroes in the world and making a worthwhile movie out of them, possibly outright damaging the brand (at least regarding Superman) and hurting interest and acceptance of future movies.
The Watchmen intro is good. Never did I say Watchmen was ENTIRELY irredeemable. I said I even liked the film.
But that's just ONE SCENE. The best scene in the film, I would say, and it plays to his strengths as a visual director. But that doesn't make the rest of the film work just because he pulled one thing off well.
BvS has great scenes too. They're just offset by more bad ones. Heck, even Sucker Punch has moments that, visually, really are impressive and well done. It doesn't make the REST of the film any better, though. It has to come together as a cohesive whole, and Snyder routinely fails to make that happen.
Yeezus H. Christ
Banned
It isn't a flop. John Carter was a flop. Green Lantern was a flop. Pan was a flop. This isn't.
But it sure as hell underperformed. No one will deny that.
Yeezus H. Christ
Banned
John Carter, Green Lantern, and Pan weren't flops. They were bombs.
Captin Quacker
Member
And I'm sure WB's just thrilled that they manage to break even on what supposed to be DC's avengersCan we put an end to this?
Oxford Dictionary time.
"Flop"
"Total disaster" is relative, of course. To budget? Perhaps not a flop. To expectations? Oh, totally. To public mindshare? Even more so. It wasn't a financial flop, but as a film it was a flop - a total and complete failure of putting the three most popular DC heroes in the world and making a worthwhile movie out of them, possibly outright damaging the brand (at least regarding Superman) and hurting interest and acceptance of future movies.
AmaterasuOni
Banned
Don't be harsh, I like Ed Wood. And I like 300, Watchmen and Legend of Guardians as well.
I am being sincere everything about that intro is fantastic.
Yeah no. Some of us like DC characters who aren't the Bat and would like to see their lore explored.
Shame DC is scared of them
Extra Sauce
Member
I don't think he's a capable director because he's a bad storyteller.
Dude should be a cinematographer or production designer.
S
Steve.1981
Unconfirmed Member
The current (unsustainable) craze of 'breaking a billion' has completely ruined people's expectations of what constitutes a flop, hasn't it.
Nobody should have just expected BvS to break a billion. That's nuts. No Batman film ever made that kind of money at the box office, until the perfect mix of Nolan hitting top form while directing Heath Ledger as he created one of the greatest movie villains of all time caused a cultural phenomenon. No Superman film has ever made near that kind of money at the box office, full stop
850 million worldwide is not a flop.
Nobody should have just expected BvS to break a billion. That's nuts. No Batman film ever made that kind of money at the box office, until the perfect mix of Nolan hitting top form while directing Heath Ledger as he created one of the greatest movie villains of all time caused a cultural phenomenon. No Superman film has ever made near that kind of money at the box office, full stop
850 million worldwide is not a flop.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
I need to ask because I'm yet to see it. What is actually legitimately wrong with BvS?
I just saw Civil War which I really liked and what I know of BvS, Civil War just seems like it's Avengers mixed with BvS. Right down to the motivation/impetus for the fighting.
Liquidsnake
Banned
Unfocused story.
Terrible writing and even worse execution in directing. Especially when you see the potential , like the desert scene could have been iconic, but it was a jumbled mess.
Forced character introduction.
The worst Lex Luthor I have seen to date.
Bloated
I really could go on and on, but I don't want to spoil it for you. It is the most unfocused I have ever seen Snyder.
Whether or not one agrees with it's interpretation of the characters, BvS is a rather poor movie in many areas. It's not an unfinished movie like Fantastic Four, but it's a collection of ideas put together in the worst way possible. However, the interpretation of the characters really makes it a spectacular cultural hate-machine above and beyond just because of it being a bad movie. Terrible writing, nonsensical story, bad acting, bloated, and disrespect for the audience's time.
Rises also hit a billion without Ledger.
If BvS was good, just decent, it would've hit a billion.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
I already knew Luthor would terrible without seeing it. Poor casting there. Very poor casting.
S
Steve.1981
Unconfirmed Member
TDKR made a billion because of the momentum of the trilogy. The previous film, as I said, was a cultural phenomenon. Same reason why The first Hobbit made a billion, coming after the wonderful LOTR trilogy.
S
Steve.1981
Unconfirmed Member
Probably a good idea to watch the film before you decide if an actor is poor casting for a part. Eisenberg might surprise you as Lex Luthor.
Captin Quacker
Member
Thing is cavill can act they just didn't give him anything to work with
Batfleck did a great job despite the movie and gadot left me quite optimistic for wonder woman
So outside of Lex the rest of the cast wasn't bad
#seriouslythatwasjimmyolesn
Eisenberg is the worst Lex Luthor on screen so far and I defended the casting choice when it was announced. I don't like Hackman's Lex, but it's better than Eisenberg's portrayal.
It's a shame things didn't work out with Cranston.
Schweinehund
Member
Johns wants to bring "Hope and Optimism"
hmm, did he even Flash Blitz?
Wouldn't call Johns stories totally light hearted. Maybe JSA and Stargirl. I doubt he'd go with Snyder's direction though, he wouldn't have Batman kill and his Superman would probably be more in line with Donner's.
hmm, did he even Flash Blitz?
Wouldn't call Johns stories totally light hearted. Maybe JSA and Stargirl. I doubt he'd go with Snyder's direction though, he wouldn't have Batman kill and his Superman would probably be more in line with Donner's.
It's been hilarious seeing them finally realize they've been sitting on goldmines with Wonder Woman and The Flash. Things like the The Flash TV show and DC Super Hero Girls should have happened years ago.
(Yeah the Flash had the 90's show, but it was that then radio silence for 20 years)
Deathstroke tops the list of DC characters I find less interesting than Bruce Wayne.
Damn straight.
KonradLaw
Member
There are no projects with higher returns though. Not consitently so at least and not ones you can pump out 2-3 each year.
Thankfully Snyder realizes how outdated this is and is giving us the sad, uncertain Superman we all really wanted.
Superman is not a shit character. The depiction of him is shit.
Focus on Batman & Robin, see how great that makes Batman's character.
Liquidsnake
Banned
broncobuster
Banned
I'd say Eisenberg could act like the Lex people envisioned. Heck, everybody thought he'd channel Zuckerberg and that'd be okay. He played Lex as told and written. Bryan Cranston, Joaquin Phoenix, Adam Driver, whomever else. It'd be along the same lines.
KonradLaw
Member
They probably will for JL2. For JL1 it was too late. Replacing Snyder on this one would be complete diseaster.
Sorry, now, in a world where every Transformers film cracks a billion, the first ever on-screen meeting of Batman and Superman should be waltzing over that.
This isn't 2002. There's nearly 25 films that have hit a billion now, many of the recent ones being superhero films, and almost all of them being released in the last six years.
Hell, four of them came out last year.
Discotheque
Banned
ehh that route is pretty hard to go but i hope they pull it off.
captain america for example is kind of boring as fuck in the greater marvel universe. very likable guy but i'll take 20 minutes of stark in the iron man movies over hours of evans' rogers. he just feels more multifaceted and interesting.
you have to do more than just give us a nice guy with strong ideals. donner's movies are really hard to emulate. only raimi managed to pull it off well with the spidermans imo.
also snyder killed clark kent so this tone change will be even harder than ever haha. conceptually i think snyder was doing fine but they really needed to make superman more of a public figure. being a recluse didn't help matters at all.
Adjusted for inflation Tim Burtons Batman probably topped $500 million just in US. Superman the Movie adjusted prbably around $450 million domestic. In short batman and superman films that are well made tend to capture the zeitgeist and make huge sums.
You're just looking at current value of money and assuming modern films are making more: they're not. Adjusted for inflation A New Hope made much more than Force Awakens in US.
BvS should have easily passed $1 billion. Easily. Look at its first weekend. That's the first weekend of a film that can pass $1 billion. It cratered though because word of mouth was toxic. They simply failed to make the film the market wanted but the initial demand shows the audience is there.
With inflation more and more big hit films will pass $1 billion so it's not unsustainable, it's merely where certain films should land. There was a time when making over $100 million was unprecedented: then it became the norm that most popular films could attain. Now it's less than most big budget films cost.
And don't think WB don't know this. They sank approx $450 million or more into BvS expecting to easily pass $1 billion.
Captin Quacker
Member
Watchmen looked nice but like someone else said it's superficial references at best. Take for example the silk specter and night owls fight in the alleyway. They fight with clearly super strength whereas in the comics they fight with middle aged athlete strength. Because that's what they are, heroes not super heroes.
So it seems Snyder really missed the point.
So it seems Snyder really missed the point.
I guess, he read the script and never called back ...
I think he was just considered.
S
Steve.1981
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, I know how adjusting for inflation works. The point is that even when you do that, the huge Superman and Batman films from back in the day still don't hit these numbers.
It's absolutely a new craze and I think it is (or will prove to be) unsustainable, because everyone pushes for it now and we're starting to see talk of films flopping simply because they don't hit it (as BvS proves) which will lead to a situation where studios, instead of setting more realistic targets, could conceivably burn through a fucking ton of money chasing it, and end up going out of business.
Mix Master
Member
If it's not the BATGOD or Sucide Squad hard PASS on anything from DC/Warner Bros.
13 Movies in and i'm still thirsty of some good marvel flicks while i'm already worn out on 2 films from DC.
13 Movies in and i'm still thirsty of some good marvel flicks while i'm already worn out on 2 films from DC.
Whoadere. Greatest in cinema is going way to far. And I fucking LOVE that opening. But its not the greatest in cinema. It sure as hell shits on everything in the superhero genre from on high though.
No superhero film has had an outro or intro as incredible as Watchman. It was damn near worth the price of admission alone. Its really well done.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Putting the Koyaanisqatsi music to the Doctor Manhattan origin story was also a stroke of damned genius.
Mix Master
Member
Oh god no,I like dark superhero movies, just not Snyder's
CrichtonKicks
Member
The huge expansion of the world wide market is new, yes. But both Superman and Batman were huge successes at their time of release. Superman made $134 million domestic in 1978. Before 1975 no film had ever even broken $100 million.
bob_arctor
Tough_Smooth
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