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Battlestar Galactica Official Final Season Thread
- Thread starter Stoney Mason
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DrForester
Kills Photobucket
good episode. I do kind of hope this starbuck thing gets handled quickly and doesn't get dragged out to long. Part of me thinks that she's going to give the president the gun, and try to use that to get the president to believe her, by saying she could have killed her, but didn't.
Part of me knows that Starbuck isn't that smart.
Part of me knows that Starbuck isn't that smart.
Spotless Mind
Member
Frak yeah! Great season opener and terrific setup for the season. The opening space battle was stunning.
There were a few moments of awkward exposition, but otherwise i had no real problems with this episode. There was a bevy of great character moments - Gaius, Starbuck and the Galactica cylons mainly and it continued where it left off last year perfectly.
The ending had me on edge. It felt like a completely different show, with Starbuck going all bad ass. Obviously she ain't gonna shoot Roslin, but that was one damn cool cliffhanger.
I have to laugh at comparisons to the Lost season 4 premiere. That premiere was woeful and failed to maintain the building tension from its season finale. This shows premiere was the exact opposite.
There were a few moments of awkward exposition, but otherwise i had no real problems with this episode. There was a bevy of great character moments - Gaius, Starbuck and the Galactica cylons mainly and it continued where it left off last year perfectly.
The ending had me on edge. It felt like a completely different show, with Starbuck going all bad ass. Obviously she ain't gonna shoot Roslin, but that was one damn cool cliffhanger.
I have to laugh at comparisons to the Lost season 4 premiere. That premiere was woeful and failed to maintain the building tension from its season finale. This shows premiere was the exact opposite.
Phoenix
Member
It was a good episode, but not great. I think that it would have fit better being a 2 hour premier because it was fairly tame as a season opener and really didn't get anywhere really. It was a baby step in terms of a plot that I'm assuming has a long way to go to finally reach its climax.
The next episode is likely to be the "if I was a cylon I would have shot you" matter so I'm hoping they really take us somewhere in the next hour of show.
The next episode is likely to be the "if I was a cylon I would have shot you" matter so I'm hoping they really take us somewhere in the next hour of show.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Considering that the guideposts to earth tend to show signs of both human and Cylon collaboration, I think it's likely that earth is either co populated, or that the two races have somehow already merged there and the supreme zenith of that fusion is this God the Cylons are looking for, and it is waiting on earth. (It's the only thing that makes some kinda sense. Why else would the Cylons want to find earth anyway? Only other explanation is that they're hoping to start fresh with a new batch of humans that has no reason to mistrust them, which seems like a colossal waste of time?)bob_arctor said:
Proelite
Member
So I just finished Season 3, and I have the Season 4 opening waiting on my DVR to be watched as soon as people leave my house.
Two thoughts:
1) I'm still annoyed with the episode where they killed Billy. There must have been some contractual disputes or something, because they didn't just kill him, they killed him and then pissed on his corpse. Girlfriend turns down proposal, girlfriend is cheating, dies trying to be helpful, and hardly anyone gives a shit.
2) Episode 4 of Season 3 was the most epic hour of Sci-Fi television ever.
Two thoughts:
1) I'm still annoyed with the episode where they killed Billy. There must have been some contractual disputes or something, because they didn't just kill him, they killed him and then pissed on his corpse. Girlfriend turns down proposal, girlfriend is cheating, dies trying to be helpful, and hardly anyone gives a shit.
2) Episode 4 of Season 3 was the most epic hour of Sci-Fi television ever.
Aaronology
Member
KevinCow said:
IIRC, the actor playing Billy wanted to move on to other projects. They had to write him out. I vaguely recall Moore expressing a bit of regret over that, too, as they wanted to mold his character into a bigger role. I'd always pinned Billy as a prime Cylon suspect and I'd bet that's where they wanted to go with him.
@2: Yes!
Spotless Mind said:
Eh, sorry, still on the side of "This is just like the Lost premiere." The thing is that Lost's cliffhanger was much more structural than plot-based, the introduction of the
flash-forward
And both didn't do much to go beyond this: the format of Lost's Fourth Season was similar to what we decuded over an eight month break, and this episode of BSG went as we figured it would as we waited a year: Cylon models would question their motivations, Starbuck's return would confuse the hell out of everyone, Baltar was becoming a religious figure.
I actually think Lost potentially gave us even more progress:
We foreshadowed the split between Locke and Jack in the finale, and the split took place in that episode - here, the obvious split in the fleet was left woefully unresolved by episode's end
Now, what I'm saying is not that Lost's premiere was perfect, but that I think they're on the same level: engaging hour of television, great content to chew on, but ultimately we only got two courses of our three course meal.
This episode went from top 10 to not mentioned at all within 45 minutes. Ok that's a little harsh but how can an episode start with something as awesome as the Colonel Tigh on the Bridge/CIC scene and then towards the end become so bland and mind numbingly boring?
Oh and fuck Baltar and Starbuck btw. two of the most annoying characters in all of Scifi.
Oh and fuck Baltar and Starbuck btw. two of the most annoying characters in all of Scifi.
The Storyteller
Member
The Lost/BSG comparisons are so redundant. Especially considering the Lost premiere's idea of drama was some fat guy slow-mo running down the beach.
Well the episode was by and large about Starbuck and Baltar.... so, you kind of answered the reason for why you didn't enjoy it.
I love them both, so i guess we have different biases.
Kapsama said:
Well the episode was by and large about Starbuck and Baltar.... so, you kind of answered the reason for why you didn't enjoy it.
I love them both, so i guess we have different biases.
Stoney Mason
Banned
Not that I necessarily compare the openers because that's sort of anal imo but I've always felt roughly the same about Lost and BSG. Their ups and downs have paralleled each other in many ways in that they both started strong and then had their down points and resurgent points. Of course structurally they are completely different.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Kapsama said:
The Crusher Family says hi.
AndersTheSwede
Member
This is great. Finally someone on a tv show has my name, and he turns out to be an omnipotent (sorta) Cylon. sweet
:lol In the original BSG didn't Baltar die by being sealed in a cave?
Resurrection confirmed.
Lonestar said:
:lol In the original BSG didn't Baltar die by being sealed in a cave?
Resurrection confirmed.
PillowKnight
Member
It's unbelievable that you guys feel the need to bash Lost, even in a BSG thread.
Stoney Mason
Banned
PillowKnight said:
Calm down. Most people were discussing it in relation to the season openers.
I've never watched Lost, but I do know that LOST ISN'T FRAKING BSG, so I'm with you. Get that Lost crap out of this thread!PillowKnight said:
And I don't see why some of you are expecting BSG to have a massive, blow-out-everything season premier when they have 20-something episodes to work this stuff out. The end of season 3 set up a lot of big story threads that just aren't going to be resolved any time soon. This episode did exactly what I expected:
Starbuck's reappearance and the problems that caused were introduced, the Four of the Five started to find their place, and Baltar builds on the Christ-figure stuff already introduced. Now, we get to see the Cylons' reaction to the Final Five and what Starbuck is going to do next.
This episode was very logical (well, except for the
temple to Baltar in the unused corridor
PillowKnight
Member
I didn't mean to come off as angry, that wasn't much of an inflammatory statement. I just find it ridiculous that instead of discussing why BSG's premiere was good , these guys jump right onto bashing Lost.Stoney Mason said:
Personally, I enjoyed BSG's premiere much more than I did Lost's.
Tim the Wiz
Banned
probune said:No... they were roughly the same quality, which is really, really disappointing. I've watched it again and after the whole "BATTLESTAR IS BACK YAY" has worn off, really, this episode was a piece of shit.
It wasn't the best season opener, but it wasn't that bad either. You can see where they're going with it, though, and it definitely looks promising.
probune said:No... they were roughly the same quality, which is really, really disappointing. I've watched it again and after the whole "BATTLESTAR IS BACK YAY" has worn off, really, this episode was a piece of shit.
Jesus fucking christ. A piece of shit? really? Now there's exaggeration then there's EXAGGERATION. Sure you may not think it was great, but to call it a piece of shit is way off the mark.
I dunno ... I"ve watched all of BSG in about a month and basically waited 3 days or so for this episode. It seemed to be about on-par with what I've seen so far. That is, minus the opening battle sequence, which was definitely an improvement. And you have to sort of ignore the gradual shift of the series to its focus on the prophecies and visions. I do sort of miss the: "Oh shit, we're running out of fuel." sort of aspects. Still, they still keep that stuff relevant, it's just not the focus of the stories anymore (save for the algae planet ... sort of), so I can't really complain too much.probune said:No... they were roughly the same quality, which is really, really disappointing. I've watched it again and after the whole "BATTLESTAR IS BACK YAY" has worn off, really, this episode was a piece of shit.
It failed on almost every level for me. The Cylon battle at the beginning didn't feel exciting - I liked one moment where Anders goes into the battle and goes "holy shit" with explosions everywhere, but they didn't capitalize on that kind of feeling too much.
Instead of Roslin and Adama having a scene where they both decide what to do about something important, in this episode, Roslin just decides that what she's doing is right. While I think that rings false considering the rest of the series.
The stuff with the four Cylons aboard Galactica was contrived with these "poignant" pauses all the time where the camera lingers on them, which seems like the kind of melodramatic thing Lost does all the time.
Can the Balthar stuff get any more heavyhanded at this point? Who didn't know exactly how it would play out from the very beginning? -_-
And the ending... Jesus Christ was that dumb. Like I said, they didn't have enough time in this episode, and in like 15 minutes we're meant to buy that Starbuck is going crazy from losing this mystical feeling she's having and is pushed to the brink that she'd turn against Roslind? Normally, BSG would introduce that and let it unfold for at least an episode to make it believable, now it just seems like something they stuck on the end for "omg cliffhangerz".
So like I said, I think it's a terrible episode. You can like it all you want, I really don't care. It just didn't work for me at all.
Instead of Roslin and Adama having a scene where they both decide what to do about something important, in this episode, Roslin just decides that what she's doing is right. While I think that rings false considering the rest of the series.
The stuff with the four Cylons aboard Galactica was contrived with these "poignant" pauses all the time where the camera lingers on them, which seems like the kind of melodramatic thing Lost does all the time.
Can the Balthar stuff get any more heavyhanded at this point? Who didn't know exactly how it would play out from the very beginning? -_-
And the ending... Jesus Christ was that dumb. Like I said, they didn't have enough time in this episode, and in like 15 minutes we're meant to buy that Starbuck is going crazy from losing this mystical feeling she's having and is pushed to the brink that she'd turn against Roslind? Normally, BSG would introduce that and let it unfold for at least an episode to make it believable, now it just seems like something they stuck on the end for "omg cliffhangerz".
So like I said, I think it's a terrible episode. You can like it all you want, I really don't care. It just didn't work for me at all.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
probune said:
well, you have to remember that Roslin is PISSED with Adama right now since the trial. Adama voted for Baltar's acquittal, after all.
it might be melodramatic, but its necessary to acknowledge that the characters are thinking about it, and in turn, force us to think about that as well.
hey, we dont know who the fuck this Starbuck is. I think its totally believable to have this Starbuck go crazy -- we don't know who she is, where she is from, etc. Its totally appropriate to have her freak out.
Stoney Mason
Banned
davepoobond said:
Not to mention if it is Starbuck it is still totally in line with her character imo. A character feels they have discovered the way home and nobody believes her, and every warp away she feels like she may lose the ability whatever it is, that she currently has. Seems plausible to me.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
gofreak said:I think Cally got her rocks off with one of the nuggets down there.
Seriously, though, good question..
Here's a fuller speculation of where I think this is going to go..spoilered in case it comes true!
As above, in a twist of the origins of the war, some cylons start to turn against their own masters - the cylons themselves. The dissent spreads from Anders, and also via Six (more later). They will, ultimately, make a complete sacrifice and kill themselves and as many other cylons - possibly all. Why? Because they will come to believe that this is what God wants. Religious ferver will push them to that action. They'll believe they've been led astray. They have become too human and have begun to empathise with the humans, heck some think they ARE human, they love them even (Anders-Starbuck, Six-Balthar) and it will be their belief that they have to help the humans. They'll believe this is what God wants. It'll be a last ditch action..they'll try to convince the others, but ultimately their only recourse will be to destroy themselves.
There were hints of this kind of dissent as the humans got to New Caprica..but now, the dissenting Cylons will know that they can't risk letting the Cylons stick around, since they know what happened last time.
This would mean..the humans get to earth, relatively safe and sound. It would resolve the question of the Cylons.
It would resolve some other questions too:
The final five are literally the final five - there will be no more cylon models because the cylons will destroy themselves.
Hera's importance - she is the future of the cylons, because she's the only one who can survive whatever mechanism the dissenting cylons use to destroy themselves and the rest. She represents the cylon's future as a part of surviving humanity. Maybe Cally's baby too, but the Cylons don't know about her. This is why she's so important, she literally will be the only trace of Cylon left (I guess..).
Balthar and Six - Balthar was indeed part of God's plan. Six fell in love with him. Her (conflicted) empathy with humanity has been visible from the start (the baby in the first episode, sparing it...her comments on Caprica, almost sympathetic to the humans). Balthar's role was, to make her fall in love with humanity, effectively. This, I'm figuring, makes her model vulnerable to Ander's 'virus' and made her the best candidate for "evolution", and to lead the dissent on the ground, amongst the cylons, with the help of D'anna who was perhaps getting close to 'God's truth' herself before Cavel boxed her (hence her "i'm so sorry" moment to one of the final five?).
There are many other threads to tie up and I'm not sure if they'd all fit in..but that's my best guess now. They get to earth, the cylons disappear through dissent and self destruction, but of course, it's bittersweet because Tigh, Tyrrel, Anders etc. are dead. Along with whoever the final Cylon is (presumably someone very key, who'll make the whole thing even more bittersweet).
Unfortunately, that would only "work" if you forgot about the little details surrounding the "Final Five" and what you have assumed them to be (which you are supposed to at this point, but the various clues have already "revealed" much about the overall plot and what is yet to be "explained" if the writers decide to do so).
They may be Cylons, but it is rather obvious by now that the Cylons did NOT build them.
The skinjobs do want to spread that impression, but the Five are not related to the seven imitation models.
reasons:
- Tigh's age and him being around in the first war (!), he was not secretly replaced by a cylon because:
- the temple and other clues (including Kobol) predate everything Cylon as made by the humans (more on that later).
- the skinjobs know they exist (or existed) but did not know who they are (the very reason Dana's model was boxed) and except for Dana and Baltar Six, none of the cylons appear to know or even want to know. I assume the meachanical Cylons (Raiders, Centurions, etc) have been left entirely unaware of the existance of the final Five.
- the seven skinjob models were damaged and killed by both the nebula storage depot and the beacon, the Five appear to be immune to these effects.
Furthermore, the Cylons seemed to have suspected these type of traps, but also seemed uncertain whether or not these were meant to keep them from reaching Earth. Perhaps implying that they know or suspect what Earth is or means.
Note that the Cylons knew A LOT about Kobol and how that place relates to the humans and themselves.
Other connections:
- Four of Five being awakened by a contemporary song from Earth, meaning that the remeaning season will either deal with time displacement (I hope the writers don't bring that ST-crap into BSG); advanced future Earth or has-been Earth (those last two options mean the same thing to the plot though).
- none of the Five appear to have been discovered before, even in full medical exams... (and no, that does not make the old doc a cylon by default, for the Five seem to resamble humans much closer than the skinjobs, looking at the beacon and the chief's kid - more on this below)
- the Five being (for now) unique.
- Six being able to sense the five (ALL?), yet one of them not responding to the awakening trigger.
- leaving the last one to be either missioncritical (but whos mission is the question) or having been 'blocked' from recieving the signal. Speculation:
either Adama as fleet admiral or Roslin through the treatment with Hera's blood, since the other four were all 'lower tier' characters but are also 'natural leader' types, except for Tory.
going a bit further, including bits of the first S4 episode ( and into speculation-land and possible spoiler-age):
- Starbuck having been brought back by an unknown third faction or entity, that is linked to the location of "Earth" and is confirmed to be capable of recreating a Viper and I suspect also capable of building or recreating humans, as is implied by the "feeling" that has been imparted on Starbuck.
Also meaning that this faction is now actively involved with the human fleet, perhaps also causing the fleet wide power outage as it returned Starbuck to their location and may have sent the awakening signal.
This third faction (and the Final Five) may still turn out to be the Cylons from the start, but if I am correct about the Five, a third faction will be needed.
- the farm has been mentioned in the last episode, meaning that a setup has been made to explain it in the course of this season.
- I have never felt it to be coïncidence that there are 12 "cylon" models and 12 Lords of Kobol or "gods", which are deemed "false" by the skinjobs.
My thoughts so far:
So why the farm and only twelve models?
It has been remarked at various points in this series that the Cylons intended to replace man or at least, make Caprica and then Earth "their home" (Dana says this last part to Baltar). We can to some extend assume that this was the original "Plan" of the Cylons.
However, for some reason, the seven Cylon models are unable to breed or to create more models for that purpose. They are presumably deadlocked into an unchangeable state and needed the remaining humans in order to create more Cylons or to survive / evolve in the long term on Caprica.
After the farm, the Cylons have once more turned their attention towards finding Earth, while avoiding the topic of the other Five. Even burying (boxing) it when it does surface.
What then, are the Five, Earth and the cycle of tragedy?
The cylons know more about Kobol, the gods and the returning tragedy than they're letting on. I think the seven Cylon models are imitations of the (deceased) Lords of Kobol and the Final Five are exactly what the name says they are: the final five representations of the Lords of Kobol. Remember the Temple of Five at this point, if you find this speculation very odd.
The reason these five now walk amongst mankind again, is probably just luck. Whether the raider identified Anders as a Cylon or was given a virus by Anders is actually not very significant. What it did do, was making the Cylons aware that the Five are active. And if you assume that Anders is a skinjob type Cylon, he just made the biggest c*ck-up imaginable.
Earth then, is not just a third faction or some silly colony (what would be the point of that with the Cylons on your tail?), but rather a location where new Cylon models can be created (an insurancepolicy against a second Kobol, perhaps). Also, if no doctor can tell such a Cylon from a human and this type can also breed without issue, and humans seem to possess the very same "projection" ability (Baltar, Starbuck, Roslin) as the imitations, the motive for returning tragedy becomes clear.
Also meaning that this faction is now actively involved with the human fleet, perhaps also causing the fleet wide power outage as it returned Starbuck to their location and may have sent the awakening signal.
This third faction (and the Final Five) may still turn out to be the Cylons from the start, but if I am correct about the Five, a third faction will be needed.
- the farm has been mentioned in the last episode, meaning that a setup has been made to explain it in the course of this season.
- I have never felt it to be coïncidence that there are 12 "cylon" models and 12 Lords of Kobol or "gods", which are deemed "false" by the skinjobs.
My thoughts so far:
So why the farm and only twelve models?
It has been remarked at various points in this series that the Cylons intended to replace man or at least, make Caprica and then Earth "their home" (Dana says this last part to Baltar). We can to some extend assume that this was the original "Plan" of the Cylons.
However, for some reason, the seven Cylon models are unable to breed or to create more models for that purpose. They are presumably deadlocked into an unchangeable state and needed the remaining humans in order to create more Cylons or to survive / evolve in the long term on Caprica.
After the farm, the Cylons have once more turned their attention towards finding Earth, while avoiding the topic of the other Five. Even burying (boxing) it when it does surface.
What then, are the Five, Earth and the cycle of tragedy?
The cylons know more about Kobol, the gods and the returning tragedy than they're letting on. I think the seven Cylon models are imitations of the (deceased) Lords of Kobol and the Final Five are exactly what the name says they are: the final five representations of the Lords of Kobol. Remember the Temple of Five at this point, if you find this speculation very odd.
The reason these five now walk amongst mankind again, is probably just luck. Whether the raider identified Anders as a Cylon or was given a virus by Anders is actually not very significant. What it did do, was making the Cylons aware that the Five are active. And if you assume that Anders is a skinjob type Cylon, he just made the biggest c*ck-up imaginable.
Earth then, is not just a third faction or some silly colony (what would be the point of that with the Cylons on your tail?), but rather a location where new Cylon models can be created (an insurancepolicy against a second Kobol, perhaps). Also, if no doctor can tell such a Cylon from a human and this type can also breed without issue, and humans seem to possess the very same "projection" ability (Baltar, Starbuck, Roslin) as the imitations, the motive for returning tragedy becomes clear.
If you can't guess it, that means everyone is a Cylon. Just not a type that is made aware of it being one.
And this modelrestriction might also why Hera is so important to the cylons, yet they do fire at the ship that contains her (she is not required if "Earth" has the means to build new models)
And this modelrestriction might also why Hera is so important to the cylons, yet they do fire at the ship that contains her
(she is not required if "Earth" has the means to build new models)And Baltar can still get to be Jezus, yay!
Revengeance
Member
True, but why the hell is this show not in HD? I've caught reruns in high def on Universal HD (NYC market), so why can't they just put the show up on there normally? They're all NBC properties anyway.Big-E said:
Tokubetsu said:
YES! I would make a Baltar defense force avatar if I wasn't so excited about GTA
Revengeance
Member
Lhadatt said:
Stupid Time Warnerthanks for the info, penning vitriolic letter now
distantmantra
Member
Lhadatt said:
Comcast finally came through on something, we got SciFi HD about a month ago in Seattle.
Spotless Mind
Member
Haha no. I didn't say it was mindblowing at all either. It was probably the weakest BSG season premiere, to be honest, but there was a lot of great stuff in this episode. Sure, it didn't develop much beyond the expected, it was kind of predictable all things considered, but this downtime was needed from a story and character standpoint. The characters were actually REACTING to some of the WTF shit that went down in the season finale without it degenerating into a sentimental soap opera and insidpid speeches - a huge difference to that turgid Lost premiere.probune said:No... they were roughly the same quality, which is really, really disappointing. I've watched it again and after the whole "BATTLESTAR IS BACK YAY" has worn off, really, this episode was a piece of shit.
Reading your comments on why you thought it was terrible doesn't exactly endear me to your point of view either...
fistfulofmetal
Banned
Revengeance said:
thanks for the info, penning vitriolic letter now
I have Time Warner as well. If you do send a letter, could you maybe make a copy of it for me so I can send one too?
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