Not sure what video you're talking about but based off the name guess, I'm going with Gangnam Style.
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Believe it or not, gamers who like the Atelier series are NOT pedophiles
- Thread starter RurouniZel
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Not sure what video you're talking about but based off the name guess, I'm going with Gangnam Style.
Nocturnowl
Member
i'm not sure I understand the offensive nature of this one, plus she has a nose.
From my experience, a lot of parents are generally okay with violence are gore, but they have great disdain for anything that remotely suggests any kind of sexual theme.
PdotMichael
Banned
Kind of interesting that you can call someone a pedophile, although all homophobic, sexist or racist statements are forbidden on NeoGAF.
Spiffy_1st
Member
Off putting? What's it putting you off from doing...?
There are good artists who draw little girls, but Mel Kishida is not one of them.
David H Wong
Banned
Yep. The more they try to defend it, the worse they look. There is no context that justifies that. The games are not exclusively for regressed pedophiles, but there is absolutely material in the game intended to give people with pedophile tendencies something to masturbate to. Trying to deny it just makes them look ridiculous.
I'm just saying that if the design was supposed to be sexy, then it would lose any appeal to me instantly the second I saw her face.
Knowing some otaku's fetishes, though, I can see that actually being appealing to them. lol.
chickdigger802
Banned
Does this really though? But it's probably not something the average soccer mom buys for their boy.
But i can see a parent buying this for their daughter that enjoys games based off the cover. I've seen worst bratz dolls than this outfit.
It was relevant because the cited example used fighting games. Sakura looks older, so it was an immediate counter argument.
That and then there's the problem of these games always intentionally or say they're older than they appear because they have to.
You're saying that she's 20 in that pic and in the other pic she was 15 (where she barely looked 10 to me)?
I disagree, but it's art, so there's no way to back it up besides just saying "C'mon, now". I'm not "right".
Atelier, Disgaea, Ar Tornelico, Neptunia, Idea Factory, Compile Heart, Gust, NIS, etc. do nothing for me, to be perfectly honest. I know some of those companies/games are unrelated, but I kinda just group them together because I don't necessarily care for any of them. I've tried so many times to get into these games and I can never play them for more than 2 hours. Gust, NIS, Idea Factory, and Compile Heart games seem to resonate between fans so maybe that's why I consider them from the same family, I don't know. I wouldn't call them pedophile games, but they are certainly ultra Japanese games.
This may sound vague or immature, but My BIGGEST issue with these games is that there's literally nothing COOL about them. I guess it's just my personal taste, but I just feel like there's nothing to get excited about with these games. It's just TOO anime-ish, like the bad and uninteresting side of Japan. It may sound a bit ignorant, but that's how I feel about these games. I understand that people dig the alchemy/item creation side of the game, but from the games I've played it's nothing worth flipping out about. Tons of games do item synthesis well. I'll also echo the sentiment that while I do enjoy item synthesis to some degree, I'm not fascinated by it so games being centered such a mechanic doesn't do much for me either. So, what's left, B/C-tier turn based battle systems and some nice artwork to accompany a "maybe cool" OST?
Like, do the fans of these games prefer Gust/NIS titles over say Falcom's games or other RPG developers? To just name a few, my Japanese RPG standards are Falcom games (Ys/Legend of Heroes), From Software (King's Field/Shadow Tower/Demon's Souls), Matsuno games (Vagrant Story/Tactics Ogre), Valkyria Chronicles, Wild ARMs, Suikoden, Vandal Hearts, Shadow Hearts, Xenogears/Saga/Blade, and Chrono Trigger/Cross. I'm just trying to wrap my head around why this fan base is so attached to these games. Call me ignorant or biased, but I honestly can't understand or see why someone would prefer Gust/NIS/Idea Factory, etc. games over the above titles.
The only reason why I ever checked these games out was because I'm a huge RPG fan and I like to play and collect as many games from the genres that I enjoy. These games appealed to me on the lowest level though. They have cool box art and sometimes their soundtracks are good. That's about it. I used to pick each of these Atelier/Disgaea/Ar Tornelico games up as they released thinking I would find one that was somewhat interesting, but it never happened. I've stopped collecting them since Disgaea 3 came out. Now they release these games left and right and I've lost complete interest in the whole scene.
This may sound vague or immature, but My BIGGEST issue with these games is that there's literally nothing COOL about them. I guess it's just my personal taste, but I just feel like there's nothing to get excited about with these games. It's just TOO anime-ish, like the bad and uninteresting side of Japan. It may sound a bit ignorant, but that's how I feel about these games. I understand that people dig the alchemy/item creation side of the game, but from the games I've played it's nothing worth flipping out about. Tons of games do item synthesis well. I'll also echo the sentiment that while I do enjoy item synthesis to some degree, I'm not fascinated by it so games being centered such a mechanic doesn't do much for me either. So, what's left, B/C-tier turn based battle systems and some nice artwork to accompany a "maybe cool" OST?
Like, do the fans of these games prefer Gust/NIS titles over say Falcom's games or other RPG developers? To just name a few, my Japanese RPG standards are Falcom games (Ys/Legend of Heroes), From Software (King's Field/Shadow Tower/Demon's Souls), Matsuno games (Vagrant Story/Tactics Ogre), Valkyria Chronicles, Wild ARMs, Suikoden, Vandal Hearts, Shadow Hearts, Xenogears/Saga/Blade, and Chrono Trigger/Cross. I'm just trying to wrap my head around why this fan base is so attached to these games. Call me ignorant or biased, but I honestly can't understand or see why someone would prefer Gust/NIS/Idea Factory, etc. games over the above titles.
The only reason why I ever checked these games out was because I'm a huge RPG fan and I like to play and collect as many games from the genres that I enjoy. These games appealed to me on the lowest level though. They have cool box art and sometimes their soundtracks are good. That's about it. I used to pick each of these Atelier/Disgaea/Ar Tornelico games up as they released thinking I would find one that was somewhat interesting, but it never happened. I've stopped collecting them since Disgaea 3 came out. Now they release these games left and right and I've lost complete interest in the whole scene.
Pretty much, how do you defend blatant panty-shots of teen/child characters and other suggestive and perverse things in all these games? It's obvious that they except the player to get off on it.
Of course it's nothing wrong with liking 'cute things', but I do think when it's skimpy dressed underage girls in suggestive situations etc it's just bleh.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Silly argument. Trying to paint the game as some monstrous outlet for pedo demons is just nonsense. Anybody who'd want to masturbate to such things probably knows where to find better material (ie, porn drawings rather than mildly suggestive stuff) for free, like pixiv or any other art community site.
I enjoy them all, especially those you listed. I'd give a nod to the Disgaea franchise over some but I think that's mostly because of the amount of time I've spent dissecting the game(s) for their mechanics rather than due to the game content itself.
I'm referring to Code of Princess.
I've said this before but I'll say it again. I'm not a fan of anime or any of the "cute girls doing cute things" stuff and I've played the Atelier series. I'm not a particular fan of the character design, which I can get over since I enjoyed the gameplay, but I can appreciate the artistic abilities that went into the world and characters. There were also parts of the game and scenes that I could have done without but again I can get over it because those parts, such as the octopus scene which gets posted, don't make up even a percent of the game. By your reasoning that means that I MUST be sexually attracted to the characters in the game and that is the sole reason why I bought the game in the first place, which I can tell you is 100% wrong.
Yes there are scenes, like the octopus scene which are few and far between, that are pandering to a certain type of audience but that doesn't DEFINE the game or its audience. If you honestly feel that everyone who has played or is wanting to play this series have pedophilic tendencies then you're the one being ridiculous.
dragonlife
Member
I've always wanted to try the games because of the art style and colors. I don't really know anything else about them, really. Looking through this thread, though, I'm surprised they have some rather appealing male character designs.
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
I would refrain from making arguments that rely on presumptions, as arguments that that can easily be flipped around to make the presumptive party look like they're projecting. It's not healthy for discussion, and it doesn't get us anywhere.
Edit: I apologize for picking your post out of several, it's just the most recent one I saw in the thread.
I think that people overestimate just how much the Atelier games are designed for otaku. If they were as pure otaku bait as you all think, they would not be done in this art style. The art style is a complete contrast from actual pure otaku bait like K-On or Lucky Star, which would just be characterized as moe.
Atelier Totori, and the like, have a very shoujo and just plain girly art style. It's not an art style you commonly see in otaku bait at all. It should also be noted that the series has a very significant female fanbase in Japan.
Atelier Totori, and the like, have a very shoujo and just plain girly art style. It's not an art style you commonly see in otaku bait at all. It should also be noted that the series has a very significant female fanbase in Japan.
K-on isn't otaku bait, though.
This is a sentiment I agree with wholeheartedly (gratuitous panty shots/fanservice are annoying and creepy regardless of the characters age imo) but when the people who played these games say they felt the same, is it right to label them as pedophiles?
Oh man.
I agree with what was meant, though. Atelier's art style is rather shoujo heavy.
Mana Khemia, if you count that
With all the pedophilia talk in this thread I thought I should post this: http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article14982889.ab
For you non-scandinavians: Some guy translated doujins and got accused of spreading child porn. Court decided these characters doesn't have any resemblance to the real thing, and that they can't put people in jail because of fictional content.
Thoughts?
Personally I agree. Creepy as it may be, this is not real child porn. You could make the argument that it's a gateway to the real deal. But that same argument could be used for violence in media, which I know most people here thinks that is a ridiculous argument.
For you non-scandinavians: Some guy translated doujins and got accused of spreading child porn. Court decided these characters doesn't have any resemblance to the real thing, and that they can't put people in jail because of fictional content.
Thoughts?
Personally I agree. Creepy as it may be, this is not real child porn. You could make the argument that it's a gateway to the real deal. But that same argument could be used for violence in media, which I know most people here thinks that is a ridiculous argument.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Pretty sure I stated a million times how much I hated the fact totori's dress was transparent. Fan service in anything is annoying as hell. I mean I don't mind it here and there for light laughs but if it's over the top then I'm out in a heart beat. Queens Blade is probably one of my most hated shows ever. Shit's pure filth
Yeah, I think many of us agree on the fanservice heavy bits to just be an overall "Oh god, really?" moment. A fact that is either missed or just ignored. Or not relevant to those arguing, I guess.
Of the Arland trilogy I have a hard time deciding between Totori and Meruru. Gameplay wise I think Meruru is the best by a margin. The kingdom building mechanic is cool, the battle system is a bit more polished, and the menus are a little better. However, I like the exploration aspects and story/characters in Totori better.
I think you misunderstood me.
Or did I misunderstand you? Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that our sentiments are mutual.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Nah I was agreeing with you about it, I just worded it badly
bababouille
Member
People in this thread need to watch this trailer of Ayesha, it is the most refined, most beautiful video game trailer I have seen in a very long time.
I think with this trailer it is easy to understand the visual themes and concept Gust is going for with this series. Think handcrafts, folk music and Japanese mori fashion, things I believe are popular among young women and even (herbivore) men in Japan. This gen's Atelier games wouldn't make sense if the characters weren't young girls. Their design ressemble that of fairies, very close to the forest, to nature, looking chaste and innocent reinforce these ideas. I think the Atelier series is designed to make players relax, so they sport an atmosphere that tries to pull players far from their busy daily lives.
I think Kishida made a great job with these designs by coupling current fashion trends (I think one of the games' themes is consumerism), sort of medieval aesthethics (standard RPG fare), irish folklore imagery and moe (because moe sells). I also suggest people skim through the art books because they are really nice.
These games are not at all geared towards Western audience so I can see where the misunderstandings come from. When people look at these games' covers, they see only little girls and not the ideas behind the visual design of the games. It's also become a norm for gamers to judge games from their presentation only. Look at how modern Western games are marketed, look at this past E3's trailers. Everything is about presentation/graphics. Art direction is minimized in games nowadays. I'd say some AAA titles are even designed to look like they lack an art direction.
I think with this trailer it is easy to understand the visual themes and concept Gust is going for with this series. Think handcrafts, folk music and Japanese mori fashion, things I believe are popular among young women and even (herbivore) men in Japan. This gen's Atelier games wouldn't make sense if the characters weren't young girls. Their design ressemble that of fairies, very close to the forest, to nature, looking chaste and innocent reinforce these ideas. I think the Atelier series is designed to make players relax, so they sport an atmosphere that tries to pull players far from their busy daily lives.
I think Kishida made a great job with these designs by coupling current fashion trends (I think one of the games' themes is consumerism), sort of medieval aesthethics (standard RPG fare), irish folklore imagery and moe (because moe sells). I also suggest people skim through the art books because they are really nice.
These games are not at all geared towards Western audience so I can see where the misunderstandings come from. When people look at these games' covers, they see only little girls and not the ideas behind the visual design of the games. It's also become a norm for gamers to judge games from their presentation only. Look at how modern Western games are marketed, look at this past E3's trailers. Everything is about presentation/graphics. Art direction is minimized in games nowadays. I'd say some AAA titles are even designed to look like they lack an art direction.
GungHo
Single-handedly caused Exxon-Mobil to sue FOX, start World War 3
I knew only one elementary kid in my life who had facial hair, but that was because they kept redshirting him. He was a menace at dodge ball.
Sega sez: SD = elementary
No. Arya's a bad ass. Arya avatars are not creepy.
If he had an avatar of the seven year old breast feeding kid getting some from the tap, that would be creepy.
You know, honestly dude, and I realize this sounds like a "takes one to know one" comment, but I don't know how else to phrase this: dude... if you're reading that shit into it, maybe Billiechu isn't the problem.
At most it's a kid with a huge jack-in-the-box head with hands on her hips. She's got no knees. She's got no body shape beyond triangular. There's nothing sexual about it to me, and I don't see how anyone else would see anything sexual about it unless they really want to find something sexualized about it. Maybe I'm wired differently than everyone else and I'm the abberation, but this really seems like a stretch.
I love how the majority defending this crap have little anime girl avatars.
TBH, I'm just sick of this ridiculous "Kawaii" fad. It was fine when one or two loli's were plaguing my favourite anime series/games with their cliché tropes as I could ignore them, but now that the industry is practically dominated by this shit I'm finding it hard not to lose my patience.
I just don't get how people can justify playing or watching a series where it constantly sexualizes underage girls. I don't care if you like the gameplay, your still supporting this shit! I also don't understand why people are attracted to these characters in the first place. They all more or less have the same stupid doped-up face and are just varied by generic anime hair styles. Sure you can say your under age "waifu" is different and technically legal due to being a 1000 year old dragon-girl, but in the end they're all the same, just tagged with a different run-of-the-mill tropey personality.
Sure, I'm a hater, and guess what? I'm gonna hate.
I hate being associated with this god-awful fad just because I like Anime. Have fun wishing to be a little girl, banging a little girl, watching little girls do little girl things, or whatever it is. In the end, it's just plain sad.
TBH, I'm just sick of this ridiculous "Kawaii" fad. It was fine when one or two loli's were plaguing my favourite anime series/games with their cliché tropes as I could ignore them, but now that the industry is practically dominated by this shit I'm finding it hard not to lose my patience.
I just don't get how people can justify playing or watching a series where it constantly sexualizes underage girls. I don't care if you like the gameplay, your still supporting this shit! I also don't understand why people are attracted to these characters in the first place. They all more or less have the same stupid doped-up face and are just varied by generic anime hair styles. Sure you can say your under age "waifu" is different and technically legal due to being a 1000 year old dragon-girl, but in the end they're all the same, just tagged with a different run-of-the-mill tropey personality.
Sure, I'm a hater, and guess what? I'm gonna hate.
I hate being associated with this god-awful fad just because I like Anime. Have fun wishing to be a little girl, banging a little girl, watching little girls do little girl things, or whatever it is. In the end, it's just plain sad.
Silly argument? Just because there are other outlets for such material doesn't negate some of the things in the game. Why would they otherwise include panty shots and things like that?
That doesn't mean that every player of the game appreciate those things, but it's in there.
No, I'm not labeling anyone. I'm just saying that there are things in the game that are questionable and the intention of the material is clear.
ihearthawthats
Banned
are you asian? or surrounded by asian culture? go on lookbook and search japan.
the first girl is
25.
at least to me, i don't think theres any indication that the highly stylized illustration can be considered pedo, rather its just highly stylized.
It's not though?
Because pantyshots aren't really inherently sexual, they're usually just there for laughs or just there because it makes sense -- they wear panties under there right? I mean, you can find little girl pantyshots in Miyazaki and Takahata movies.
It's your view of pantyshots which is causing the issue.
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
What the fuck? How are they even related? Being gay, female, and (any non-white) race are not things that intelligent, rational human beings have any problem with. Pedophilia is absolutely something that all intelligent, rational human beings should have a problem with, because it is a severe, dangerous disorder.
It is though?
You sound angry, maybe you should relax and watch K-ON
It isn't. You're clearly not looking hard enough to find the good stuff.
Kawaii little girl things have been around forever.
Yeah, more like "problem".
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