The people who vote in primaries will have to. But independent and swing voters have 11 freaking months. There is absolutely the possibility that we haven't seen Bernie's floor yet. Not everyone is that engaged in the democratic primary with all the focus on Trump right now.
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Bernie can win in 2016
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The people who vote in primaries will have to. But independent and swing voters have 11 freaking months. There is absolutely the possibility that we haven't seen Bernie's floor yet. Not everyone is that engaged in the democratic primary with all the focus on Trump right now.
CitizenVectron
Member
His only path to victory is winning both IA and NH and hoping that endorsements and momentum swing his way as a result. But if they don't, or Clinton wins either...he's toast. He's the Ron Paul of the Democrats.
JesseEwiak
Member
It's nice Bernie thinks that, but he's not going to be the one deciding the Constitutionality of that to force Republican governors to set up a law they don't believe in.
onadesertedisland
Member
If a federal tax can pay for health care for the poor, it can be expanded to care for all.
VendettaRed07
Member
That will be challenged in courts. Who knows what the outcome will be? Bernie's plan won't necessarily hold up or be ruled constitutional. Based on the outcomes of previous Supreme Court rulings it isn't out of the realm of sanity to say it won't.
The ACA has been challenged a million times and the government has been shut down over it. Bernies would restart the battle from zero and give the other side a whole new set of positions to attack.
She's basically concern trolling, sure but based on the reaction to the ACA there probably is a good reason to be concerned
onadesertedisland
Member
Obama dealt with the socialist label too. And Hillary will also. The right doesn't fight with facts, they fight with emotion, jingoistic propaganda, and talking points. Regardless of who gets the Democratic nom, they will face the same shitstorm thrown at them from the right. That is not a reason to refuse support for a candidate.
Constitutionality? States are forced by the feds to do things they don't want to do all the time. That's the point of having federal powers.
Your forced to give marriage licenses to everyone. Its called a law.
gutter_trash
Banned
IA and NH are like 93% white homogeneous. They are not credible bellweather states
Nevada and South Carolina are going to be colossal Clinton wins
onadesertedisland
Member
And the progressive liberal side is sick of the Democrats being republican lites.
Inuhanyou: Would you vote for him?
http://theadvocate.com/news/13869829-48/david-vitter-or-john-bel
http://www.ontheissues.org/John_Bel_Edwards.htm
http://theadvocate.com/news/13869829-48/david-vitter-or-john-bel
http://www.ontheissues.org/John_Bel_Edwards.htm
You didn't have Obama / Hillary loudly proclaiming they are a socialist. You can talk about how Bernie is a democratic socialist all you want but that really won't matter to people.
There's also the problem of Bernie never being under much scrutiny, Hillary is used to it after decades of republicans trying to destroy her and seems to be better at fighting back.
Dude Abides
Banned
No that's not how it works, unless Bernie's planning to pass his single payer plan as a constitutional amendment.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...7HeC24-Sw&sig2=tyNqyv0OVC7toHyuPBdhew&cad=rja
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
You know how Obama fought the label. Which is a hell of a lot different than admitting you are one by the way.
He fought it by hammering home his policy to cut taxes for people earning under 250k a year. Sanders will likely be doing the opposite.
He fought it by hammering home his promise that he's going to go through the deficit line by line, page by page, and reducing the deficit. Sanders will likely be advocating more expansion of government and debt by consequence.
Sanders is not Obama, and neither is Clinton for that matter. Obama had a campaign that knew what had caused Democrats to fail in the past and they turned their weaknesses into a strength by coming up with a message that directly debunked the GOP spin machine.
It's a false comparison and you know it.
You still haven't given me the sources I asked for about him bashing the democrats.
onadesertedisland
Member
No it isn't. The right still says Obama is a muslim and isn't a citizen and is a socialist. Hell, there was a disgusting billboard on I35 for years with his photo and a giant red "SOCIALIST" on it. Worrying what the right does, trying to court undecided voters is the lost cause. There are enough Democrats should they actually fucking vote, that republicans would never win the White House ever again. If it wasn't for gerrymandering, congress would be blue as well.
I would not particularly vote for them, no.
Each one has certain good points and bad points, but like Hillary or Obama, that's not enough to do what is necessary for this country.
In general, they are largely social conservatives who hate same sex marriage and even worse than that, austerity hawks too, who can't seem to understand that taxes are critically necessary to keep social services going.
The austerity obsession that seems to have been the main solution to budget problems after the crash of 08 is probably one of the worst decisions made by leaders, that is, outside of not getting together to punish their larger corporate entities from engaging in the same kind of speculative mess that lead to that crash.
Again, i will concede that they have certain good viewpoints and stances, but we need a broader level of consistency for not just pro consumer advocacy and anti big business, but the way forward to lower and middle class expansion of quality of life as well.
And i don't think a perfect candidate exists either. Bernie would rather not talk about foreign policy and engaging ISIS in a perpetual ground game if he didn't have to, even though i know he is competent enough on the issue.
And his record on gun control has been shaky as well over the years from a liberal viewpoint, even though he says he has excuses. But outside of those sticking points, he has far more consistency on everything else, and so that is good enough for me.
And i know he actually for the most part believes in his attitude in regards to transforming the country to a new direction, which is most important in my eyes. If your not in it for destroying the business as usual aspects of the system, its almost meaningless.
Bernie has obviously criticized the Democrats. And rightly so, they are political cowards and driven by many of the same forces the republicans are, the special interests. Let's not act dumb about that. There's a reason why he was never a democrat.
On the other hand, he caucused with the dems because he thought they were the only party of the 2 that even had any remote understanding of the issues facing the country with certain elements being actually liberal and true to their principles, and in this two party system, running for President as one was the only logical conclusion for him. That was his reasoning in the 70s for supporting the dems, and is his reason for joining them now when he was interviewed this year
Its not a real mystery
cj_iwakura
Member
That's your definition of bashing?
For what it's worth, the Democrats have walked to the right side in politics more and more so there's no wonder Bernie disagreed with the Democrats in a lot of things.
bearythebear
Member
It's strange and kinda sad how many Bernie supporters would rather vote for Trump then Hillary. Do they even know Bernie's positions?
Feels like Hillary supporters generally like Bernie, but many Bernie supporters really don't like Hillary.
Feels like Hillary supporters generally like Bernie, but many Bernie supporters really don't like Hillary.
Being a socialist so far hasn't seemed to have hurt him or stopped him from gaining almost 30 points in 4 months and being neck and neck with Hillary in key states.
Its just a talking point conservative dems like to throw out because they for some reason like taking from the GOP playbook. I could not believe when Claire Mcaskill tried to dismiss Bernie as a socialist loony nobody in their right mind would vote for.
Like..what is the difference between he two parties again when we're using that argument?
Its just a talking point conservative dems like to throw out because they for some reason like taking from the GOP playbook. I could not believe when Claire Mcaskill tried to dismiss Bernie as a socialist loony nobody in their right mind would vote for.
Like..what is the difference between he two parties again when we're using that argument?
cj_iwakura
Member
I'd vote for a rabid ferret over Trump.
I also think it's very weird. Might be wherever they think Hillary is bought or not.
Most of those Bernie supporters, I doubt it. They are voting Sanders to "fight the system". There are plenty of us that will though. I think it's fair to assume most of us will, it's what Bernie will want.
That really doesn't solve anything...
"Do you believe in something that most Americans deeply dislike?"
"Yes I do and am making it a cornerstone of my campaign."
Somehow turns into a win for Bernie... I feel like i'm missing some important steps in that.
A minority I can assure you. And it's not like this kind of temper-tantrum is new in politics nor really that serious of a proclamation this far from the general:
Gallup 3-28-08: If McCain vs. Obama, 28% of Clinton Backers Go for McCain
And more graphs/data from that link.
I never got the logic here. Maybe people want someone who's an outsider to the current norms and political status quo?
Sanders and Trump may be outsider to traditional views in that system, but their ideas and answers to that are literally two different universes in terms of differing views.
I mean really...Sanders is talking about a system for everyone. Trump has been specifically about the white man who's been put down by the evil "others."
ACA sucks and needs to be replaced by single payer and price controls.
In general, there's a strong new sentiment of people who hate politicians who are bought and paid for.
People don't want corporate shills in the white house any longer, and even though Trump is not the right way and cares little for the people, some voters are desperate to not support her on that reason alone.
Frankly, i'd just abstain from voting. I'm not gonna give Trump a vote, but i'm not going to support someone who i don't think represents me either.
Hillary will have plenty of other people to support her in that case, if they believe what she says.
cj_iwakura
Member
He's never shied away from it. They'd be idiots to make that the focus of attack ads.
Democratic Primary =/= general election. That is definitely an attack that would work a lot better in the general than in the primary.
cj_iwakura
Member
If it's him against Trump, it'll certainly be a battle of extremes.
SolicitorPirate
Member
I haven't read any updates on his demos for a while, but has Bernie made any successful inroads into any group besides young, white people?
cj_iwakura
Member
He did some videos with Killer Mike a while back, so he has to have some pull in the urban demographic.
Abstaining is effectively giving Trump and Republican (down ticket races) a vote.
I thought I read he was doing better with Latino voters in the recent polls. Wouldn't surprise me, lots of Latinos I know are pro Bernie.
SolicitorPirate
Member
Uh, no offense, but that sounds like GOP levels of trying to appeal to black people. What I'm asking is if his actual numbers amongst minority groups have seen an appreciable upswing.
Septimus Prime
Member
Personally, I think it's just posturing and trying to scare or pressure the opposition. No one is actually going to vote for Trump if their candidate isn't nominated, and I'm sure that's true for both Bernie and Hillary supporters.
Killer Mike invited him
SolicitorPirate
Member
I won't be so sure about that. The rhetoric coming out of a lot of Sanders supporters sound a lot more ideological than what you normally see from Democrats. I'm not entirely sure all of them would approach the GE pragmatically.
All I know is that Abuela would never pander like that.
No one can name one Hillary supporter on this board who has said they would abstain or vote for Trump(in the general). All of us have said we would vote for bernie if he was the nominee including myself. I'd have extreme reservations on his chances but I am a loyal Democrat in the end.
Bernie's idealistic and almost utopian view of what America should be is why he will never be able to govern should he be elected POTUS. GOP will never support his agenda and I don't think Bernie has it in him to compromise on the issues that are the cornerstone of his campaign. Bernie may be great for the party in the short term but in the long run I imagine it won't go over do well.
In cali, his support with Latinos jumped to 30% or jumped 30%, i forget exactly which it was.
In general, his base is expanding as people learn about him, so the tent is growing beyond that one portion you mentioned.
Tesseract
Banned
bollworms, america is whatever we will it to be
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