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Bernie can win in 2016

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O

onadesertedisland

Member
SolicitorPirate said:
I won't be so sure about that. The rhetoric coming out of a lot of Sanders supporters sound a lot more ideological than what you normally see from Democrats. I'm not entirely sure all of them would approach the GE pragmatically.
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I am not a candidate supporter, I am a personal interest supporter. Whomever appeals to my personal interests is the person that gets my vote. However, as a far left liberal, and a pragmatist, that will always be on the Democratic side. I want Bernie to win because I believe his positions to best align with mine. HIllary's positions seem to be whatever will get her elected.
 
I

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
Knoxcore said:
Bernie's idealistic and almost utopian view of what America should be is why he will never be able to govern should he be elected POTUS. GOP will never support his agenda and I don't think Bernie has it in him to compromise on the issues that are the cornerstone of his campaign. Bernie may be great for the party in the short term but in the long run I imagine it won't go over do well.
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Its not utopian to ask for the same things everyone else in the world has.

I don't understand this standard of only America can be shitty because we're America.

Free healthcare is not a outlandish thing, neither is free education, neither is taking some people to task for criminal abuses, and curbing unfair lawful abuses.

Do people actually think its untenable for that to be fixed? Then why vote for anyone in that case.

If people actually think that is utopian, then what exactly does Hillary represent? She doesn't represent pragmatism because she doesn't support those issues to start to advance them anywhere.

So where exactly is this 'being a realist means you have to be a status quo person' coming from?
 
O

onadesertedisland

Member
Knoxcore said:
Bernie's idealistic and almost utopian view of what America should be is why he will never be able to govern should he be elected POTUS. GOP will never support his agenda and I don't think Bernie has it in him to compromise on the issues that are the cornerstone of his campaign. Bernie may be great for the party in the short term but in the long run I imagine it won't go over do well.
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The GOP is controlled by lunatics in the Freedom Caucus. There is no expectation of compromise any more. The past eight years have been a hissy fit by crazies on the fringe right and there is no evidence to show that any Democratic president will get better treatment. A Democrat must be elected to secure SCOTUS and to have veto over anything stupid coming from the legislature. Gerrymandering has secured power for rural whites for a little while longer, but ten years from now, even that demographic will not be enough for GOP majorities.
 
I

Indicate

Member
Loving the Bernie coverage on CNN lately. Theres a Bernie segment on Erin Brunett's Outfront after the commercial break right now.
 
R

rjinaz

Member
Aphexian said:
Underrated post. I really like how you provided precise counter-points to his opinions. Very thoughtful 10/10
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Go back just a couple of months ago and the entire thread would have been filled with posts like these. At least most people are taking Bernie more seriously now.
 
K

Knoxcore

Member
onadesertedisland said:
The GOP is controlled by lunatics in the Freedom Caucus. There is no expectation of compromise any more. The past eight years have been a hissy fit by crazies on the fringe right and there is no evidence to show that any Democratic president will get better treatment. A Democrat must be elected to secure SCOTUS and to have veto over anything stupid coming from the legislature. Gerrymandering has secured power for rural whites for a little while longer, but ten years from now, even that demographic will not be enough for GOP majorities.
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You're right, a Democrat must be elected and I will vote for whoever is the Democratic nominee, which is more I can say than some Sanders supporters. But I do have a preference in who I believe will have a better chance at governing.
 
S

SolicitorPirate

Member
Inuhanyou said:
In cali, his support with Latinos jumped to 30% or jumped 30%, i forget exactly which it was.

In general, his base is expanding as people learn about him, so the tent is growing beyond that one portion you mentioned.
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I was rather curious about this and looked it up, and apparently his support jumped from 3.5% to 35%, which is massive given his minority support looked anemic back in November. Not entirely sure if that rate is predictive of nationwide support or limited to Cali.

Whatever the case, I can see at least see a potential Sanders win now. I still have massive doubts and think this is Clinton's to lose, but I no longer see Sanders as a pipe dream.
 
R

Roc

Neo Member
bearythebear said:
It's strange and kinda sad how many Bernie supporters would rather vote for Trump then Hillary. Do they even know Bernie's positions?

Feels like Hillary supporters generally like Bernie, but many Bernie supporters really don't like Hillary.
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I don't know if I've met, or even heard of someone for that matter, who primarily supports Bernie but would rather vote for Trump than Hillary. Most people who support Bernie know what the man stands for.
 
F

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Knoxcore said:
You're right, a Democrat must be elected and I will vote for whoever is the Democratic nominee, which is more I can say than some Sanders supporters. But I do have a preference in who I believe will have a better chance at governing.
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Let's not pretend the Clinton camp is any different.

Both candidates have highly vociferous supporters and the entire process has been tribal as hell.

Roc said:
I don't know if I've met, or even heard of someone for that matter, who primarily supports Bernie but would rather vote for Trump than Hillary. Most people who support Bernie know what the man stands for.
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There was this wacky gaffer who said as much, but it stands for reason that those are the fringe amongst the fringe. You'll always find a kooky one.
 
cheezcake

cheezcake

Member
SolicitorPirate said:
I was rather curious about this and looked it up, and apparently his support jumped from 3.5% to 35%, which is massive given his minority support looked anemic back in November. Not entirely sure if that rate is predictive of nationwide support or limited to Cali.

Whatever the case, I can see at least see a potential Sanders win now. I still have massive doubts and think this is Clinton's to lose, but I no longer see Sanders as a pipe dream.
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That Abuela blowback though
 
R

rjinaz

Member
Funky Papa said:
Let's not pretend the Clinton camp is any different.

Both candidates have highly vociferous supporters and the entire process has been tribal as hell.


There was this wacky gaffer who said as much, but it stands for reason that those are the fringe amongst the fringe. You'll always find a kooky one.
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Actually one of Bernie's biggest supporters on GAF said as much and that same poster is regularly posting in this thread. I've seen a few people say that now. But I still think you are right, it's really the fringe.
 
OuterLimits

OuterLimits

Member
Funky Papa said:
Let's not pretend the Clinton camp is any different.

Both candidates have highly vociferous supporters and the entire process has been tribal as hell.
Click to expand...

It is tribal no doubt, but most primaries are that way. Although from what I have seen online, Trump, Cruz, and Sanders supporters are the most vocal and enthusiastic. Perhaps not surprising since those candidates get more of the far right/ left and anti establishment supporters. Typically those on the fringes are more vocal than those in the center.

I honestly don't see many vocal Jeb supporters online. Lol.

In most elections, the base eventually gets behind the winner. I don't think Hillary would have a problem getting Bernie supporters, but the race has been fairly cordial so far. It seems both Hillary and Bernie are attacking a bit more.


The Republican side is more unclear. Eventually the base got behind McCain and Romney although reluctantly. This time Trump and his supporters have been attacked quite a bit by the establishment Republicans that I'm unsure if they would eventually unite behind a Jeb or Rubio. Besides they may have the numbers this time to push their candidate to the finish line. Although I could see the Republicans trying to beat Trump at a brokered convention.

If Sanders starts showing better polling results in southern states, then I will start thinking he has a chance to beat Hillary.
 
I

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
rjinaz said:
Actually one of Bernie's biggest supporters on GAF said as much and that same poster is regularly posting in this thread. I've seen a few people say that now. But I still think you are right, it's really the fringe.
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It is the fringe.

I think most Bernie Sanders supporters, if he were to lose hypothetically, would be split between being demoralized enough to either not vote period, or swallow their vomit and vote for Hillary. But i dont think there is any chance that any one of us would vote for Trump beyond 2 or 3 percentage points worth.

It really is Bernie who is sparking our enthusiasm about the political process as he says. That's why i believe in his political revolution. There are far many more people who have given up on politics because nobody represents them or their livelihood then there are who even voted in the last election period.
 
A

A More Normal Bird

Unconfirmed Member
SolicitorPirate said:
Uh, no offense, but that sounds like GOP levels of trying to appeal to black people. What I'm asking is if his actual numbers amongst minority groups have seen an appreciable upswing.
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LMAO at the idea of a Republican wanting anything to do with the guy behind this, and vice versa. Pretty sure the poster mentioned those videos as an example of people other than young white folk showing an interest in Sanders, not "Sanders took a selfie with a rapper so he's definitely got the minority vote on lock!"
 
R

rjinaz

Member
Inuhanyou said:
It is the fringe.

I think most Bernie Sanders supporters, if he were to lose hypothetically, would be split between being demoralized enough to either not vote period, or swallow their vomit and vote for Hillary. But i dont think there is any chance that any one of us would vote for Trump beyond 2 or 3 percentage points worth.

It really is Bernie who is sparking our enthusiasm about the political process as he says. That's why i believe in his political revolution. There are far many more people who have given up on politics because nobody represents them or their livelihood then there are who even voted in the last election period.
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I'm with you. I'm usually just moderately interested in politics. Bernie has sparked a flame of interest. You know what, as long as they aren't voting for Trump. That's like spitting in Sander's face.


A More Normal Bird said:
LMAO at the idea of a Republican wanting anything to do with the guy behind this, and vice versa. Pretty sure the poster mentioned those videos as an example of people other than young white folk showing an interest in Sanders, not "Sanders took a selfie with a rapper so he's definitely got the minority vote on lock!"
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I mean they are definitely out there. I follow this guy on Twitter, he's one of my favorite Bernie supporters:
https://twitter.com/JrSobe/status/687447813337313280

But Bernie is really struggling with the Black vote in particular. Probably his biggest weakness.
 
I

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
phanphare said:
can it be referred to as "evolving" on an issue if she goes backwards?
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Sure, she's an evolving door after all. She can go in whatever direction the wind blows.

I dunno, maybe i would not be so damn angry about Hillary attacking Single Payer(goodness knows i'm not surprised about it), if her claim wasn't so bizzare and wrong.

So...where the hell in Bernie's plan does it say that he's going to give governors the right to refuse or defund healthcare?

The entire point of single player is that the funding comes from a single source, the federal government, which is then redistributed automatically to state governments. They have no choice in the matter but to follow a quota, it is a federal plan to begin with. They have absolutely no choice but to provide healthcare to their citizens or else they are breaking the law.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLpudbQSQ8c
 
N

nillah

Banned
Bernie is...very naive. I respect his focus and intensity he carries out with but very naive.

Roosevelt wanted to ARM the people, Obama wants to DISARM the people;

you have a trump who wants to set up people for SUCCESS and GROWTH


dey ain't done yet
 
R

rjinaz

Member
Bam Bam Baklava said:
I suppose you could make the case that it went from 0% chance to 1% chance.
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Thanks for the nostalgia.

nillah said:
Bernie is...very naive. I respect his focus and intensity he carries out with but very naive.

Roosevelt wanted to ARM the people, Obama wants to DISARM the people;

you have a trump who wants to set up people for SUCCESS and GROWTH


dey ain't done yet
Click to expand...

The only person Trump cares about is Trump. It's naive to think otherwise.
 
P

phanphare

Banned
Inuhanyou said:
Bernie himself responds to Hillary and Chelsea Clinton's attacks on his plan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHIlX1MDSQk

Protip, don't read the comments.

Its a huge swell of people who don't know the difference between a social democrat and a communist
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like a lot of people have said before this race was Hillary's to lose and I think she's doing just that. she sounds just like the Republicans that she always claims to despise with her fear mongering tactics and obfuscation of facts.
 
N

Neuromancer

Member
Inuhanyou said:
Bernie himself responds to Hillary and Chelsea Clinton's attacks on his plan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHIlX1MDSQk

Protip, don't read the comments.
Click to expand...

Today I learned that some people still believe Obama's birth certificate is fake.

l1spZTZ.png
 
F

Foffy

Banned
Knoxcore said:
You close your eyes and will your America to existence and let me know how that goes.
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I think his point was more that thought of man is what makes society what it is. Many people in this country have a Christian ego, and while that's totally bullshit, they are indeed represented by the Republican party.

If we think, or better yet, allow bullshit to represent us, more times than not we will have just that. This is doubly so when our system is merely one where people want to be regressive about everything, and the other side of this issue is simply to try and stop regression. None of it is forward thinking at all.
 
V

Valhelm

contribute something
Indicate said:
Loving the Bernie coverage on CNN lately. Theres a Bernie segment on Erin Brunett's Outfront after the commercial break right now.
Click to expand...

CNN has a pretty obvious pro-Clinton slant, so I'm not pleased with them spending more time on Bernie.

5e492b7d37.jpg


Unicorn said:
Even the GOP would rather have Sanders than Trump. LOL
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Honestly... A Sanders presidency would be better for the long-term success of the GOP than a Trump presidency. He could potentially serve as a rallying cry for Republicans to gather behind, and prevent the inevitable collapse of the GOP establishment. Anything bad that happens to this country, could be blamed on Sanders and leftism rather than Trump and the Republican party.
 
I

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
Valhelm said:
CNN has a pretty obvious pro-Clinton slant, so I'm not pleased with them spending more time on Bernie.

5e492b7d37.jpg
Click to expand...

Yeah, as the polls narrow, they are really going in to try and attack him, having Clinton people on all the time trying to downplay his surging polls and such.

Apparently polls only matter when its Hillary doing the surging, but if Bernie is getting close, they suddenly don't really matter.

Clockwork5 said:
The GOP hasn't attacked Sanders because they want him to win the nomination.
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That's a good thing. They would not know left from right on how to win a general election, let alone wrestle their party away from Trump, so wanting Bernie in there thinking they can beat him is an actual good sign.
 
B

Blader

Member
Inuhanyou said:
Yeah, as the polls narrow, they are really going in to try and attack him, having Clinton people on all the time trying to downplay his surging polls and such.

Apparently polls only matter when its Hillary doing the surging, but if Bernie is getting close, they suddenly don't really matter.
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Did you miss all of last summer, when the media went nuts over the Sanders surge and Hillary's falling numbers?
 
J

JustenP88

I earned 100 Gamerscore™ for collecting 300 widgets and thereby created Trump's America
Knoxcore said:
You close your eyes and will your America to existence and let me know how that goes.
Click to expand...

This post epitomizes the futility of America's Democratic party. If you don't keep your tail firmly between your legs, you're not welcome!

I'm just watching the clock until Hillary goes all "red scare" on us.
 
F

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Valhelm said:
CNN has a pretty obvious pro-Clinton slant, so I'm not pleased with them spending more time on Bernie.

5e492b7d37.jpg




Honestly... A Sanders presidency would be better for the long-term success of the GOP than a Trump presidency. He could potentially serve as a rallying cry for Republicans to gather behind, and prevent the inevitable collapse of the GOP establishment. Anything bad that happens to this country, could be blamed on Sanders and leftism rather than Trump and the Republican party.
Click to expand...

Would it, though? Sanders may be the Red Menace, but so is Hillary according to their narrative, with the added factor of the GOP hating her with some primal rage.

GOP: Everything was communist.
 
I

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
Blader said:
Did you miss all of last summer, when the media went nuts over the Sanders surge and Hillary's falling numbers?
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No, i could not see them over the barrages of "not electable", "socialist loony", and the overwhelming coverage of Trump for a majority of last year, while Sanders had the lowest mentions of any of the electable candidates, yet he is still competitive to this day.

Last year, Sanders was basically locked out of the media according to Decision Data.com

http://decisiondata.org/news/political-media-blackouts-president-2016/

So to say that there is no bias there is completely false
 
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