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[Marion Cobretti]

Just because everyone is acting like it's October and Bernie succeeded in splitting the party and is responsible for handing the election to Trump.

Now, let's ignore these numbers and get back to talking ultra mad shit about Bernie and how he's doing so much damage to progressive values, and no doubt making it harder for Clinton to win in the general.

Let's also go ahead and forget about how much more toxic the campaigning between Obama and Clinton was, and how they had no trouble with unity.

 

[SneakyStephan]

Idealism is great until it runs into reality.

I am SO happy I don't live in a country where public health care, publicly funded education and paid maternity leave are considered idealism.

SO happy.

 

[Marion Cobretti]

I am SO happy I don't live in a country where public health care, publicly funded education and paid maternity leave are considered idealism.

SO happy.

This times 1 million.

 

[Sirpopopop]

I am SO happy I don't live in a country where public health care, publicly funded education and paid maternity leave are considered idealism.

SO happy.

Hilary is advocating for the same things.

The reason why it's idealism is because Bernie will not accept any compromise.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Just because everyone is acting like it's October and Bernie succeeded in splitting the party and is responsible for handing the election to Trump.

Now, let's ignore these numbers and get back to talking ultra mad shit about Bernie and how he's doing so much damage to progressive values, and no doubt making it harder for Clinton to win in the general.

Let's also go ahead and forget about how much more toxic the campaigning between Obama and Clinton was, and how they had no trouble with unity.

That number is going down by the day. Many of his supporters genuinely believe he's going to win somehow and when reality sets in, it's going to get ugly.

 

[pigeon]

That number is going down by the day. Many of his supporters genuinely believe he's going to win somehow and when reality sets in, it's going to get ugly.

As Bernie gets closer to definitively losing, the supporters that said they'd vote for Hillary are likely to just start saying they support Hillary.

So you should expect the remainder to be less likely to say they'd support Hillary.

I'm not really worried about this any more after the "Bernie tells DNC leadership he'll fall in line" leak from last week.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

As Bernie gets closer to definitively losing, the supporters that said they'd vote for Hillary are likely to just start saying they support Hillary.

So you should expect the remainder to be less likely to say they'd support Hillary.

I'm not really worried about this any more after the "Bernie tells DNC leadership he'll fall in line" leak from last week.

I believe the schism he currently is seen as the leader of will be out of his control soon enough.

 

[Coriolanus]

He's 74, burning bridges is really not a concern of his.

I am fascinated by how often this bit is overlooked.

Purity tests are just going to make things more factious.

Electing a black man made things more factious. As did passing the ACA. And thank the gods/obama both those things happened. Making things more factious is fine if the trade-off justifies it.

That number is going down by the day. Many of his supporters genuinely believe he's going to win somehow and when reality sets in, it's going to get ugly.

That number is going down by the day
*proceeds to post image that shows the number still better than hills vs bams*
..ok?

 

[pigeon]

I believe the schism he currently is seen as the leader of will be out of his control soon enough.

Probably. Just like Hillaryis44.

But with approximately that population and level of impact, too.

Most of the people supporting Bernie are relatively normal Democrats. That's why they're coming back to the fold as things get messier and it becomes more clear that Hillary is winning.

 

[makingmusic476]

As Bernie gets closer to definitively losing, the supporters that said they'd vote for Hillary are likely to just start saying they support Hillary.

So you should expect the remainder to be less likely to say they'd support Hillary.

I'm not really worried about this any more after the "Bernie tells DNC leadership he'll fall in line" leak from last week.

I'm in this camp.

 

[DragonSworne]

Hilary is advocating for the same things.

The reason why it's idealism is because Bernie will not accept any compromise.

Why should there be compromise? Stop voting Republican and there would be no need for compromise

I never understand why Democrats always compromise even when they did control the house and the Senate and even the damn white house.

 

[Kusagari]

Why should there be compromise? Stop voting Republican and there would be no need for compromise

Because the house is too gerrymandered at this point for the Dems to ever get it back outside of a historic landslide.

 

[LiquidSolid]

Just because everyone is acting like it's October and Bernie succeeded in splitting the party and is responsible for handing the election to Trump.

Now, let's ignore these numbers and get back to talking ultra mad shit about Bernie and how he's doing so much damage to progressive values, and no doubt making it harder for Clinton to win in the general.

Let's also go ahead and forget about how much more toxic the campaigning between Obama and Clinton was, and how they had no trouble with unity.

Silly comparison. You're comparing two different races, pointing to the first race's end result and saying the same will happen here, all while ignoring everything that happened between those two points in the first race. Once she dropped out, Hillary put a hell of a lot of effort into reuniting the party and getting Obama elected. Do you think Bernie will do the same? Because based on what I've seen, I don't think he will.

 

[Drek]

I believe the schism he currently is seen as the leader of will be out of his control soon enough.

They were never in his control. He's given them more cover than they deserve but they're extremists bent on crashing the system. They want to think they're progressive so they chose Sanders over Trump but if there had been no Sanders they would have been some of the first independents to rally behind Trump.

The real concern is how many of them have infiltrated his delegate group and will try to wreck shit at the convention.

 

[DragonSworne]

Because the house is too gerrymandered at this point for the Dems to ever get it back outside of a historic landslide.

Isn't gerrymandering against the law?

 

[Suikoguy]

Isn't gerrymandering against the law?

Only in some states. Florida voters passed an amendment for example requiring it to be fair.

 

[BanGy.nz]

Isn't gerrymandering against the law?

Technically yes but in reality not really, unless you really fuck it up Texas did in 2003.

 

[Coriolanus]

Why should there be compromise? Stop voting Republican and there would be no need for compromise

I never understand why Democrats always compromise even when they did control the house and the Senate and even the damn white house.

You also have to contend with blue dog democrats, which manage to get elected (in theory) precisely because they aren't quite as left as the others. Since you need their vote even with a supermajority, you'll always have to compromise.

Is just a matter of how much.

 

[Kusagari]

You also have to contend with blue dog democrats, which manage to get elected (in theory) precisely because they aren't quite as left as the others. Since you need their vote even with a supermajority, you'll always have to compromise.

Is just a matter of how much.

Yeah, that was the problem when the Dems briefly had control of everything. Blue Dogs were opposing the more liberal legislature.

 

[atr0cious]

that's fine, im not the only one who thinks it so whatever

This is probably the worst argument of all time. This is the basis of furries existing.

 

[DragonSworne]

You also have to contend with blue dog democrats, which manage to get elected (in theory) precisely because they aren't quite as left as the others. Since you need their vote even with a supermajority, you'll always have to compromise.

Is just a matter of how much.

I thought the Democrats got rid of the blue dog Democrats?

Are they still and thing and being elected?

 

[BlastProcessing]

He was asked about that election specifically so he discussed it. Which other primary challenge would you like him to comment on? You're acting like the dude should have given a roll call of every candidate he's supporting.

DWS is the issue here. She's lobbied hard against many progressive causes, and she is openly anti-Democratic. She even refuses to debate her primary opponent while extoling the virtue of debates for the Presidential election. She is corrupt and I'm proud of Bernie for taking the brave position of opposing her.

This isn't a case of him only bringing Canova up because he was asked about it. His camp had a press release ready to go and everything.

This was a specific campaign tactic, not a spur of the moment answer.

 

[The Technomancer]

I thought the Democrats got rid of the blue dog Democrats?

Are they still and thing and being elected?

Democrats from more conservative areas are going to be (relatively) more conservative than Democrats from more liberal areas

 

[NeoXChaos]

I thought the Democrats got rid of the blue dog Democrats?

Are they still and thing and being elected?

 

[Elchele]

Hilary is advocating for the same things.

The reason why it's idealism is because Bernie will not accept any compromise.

I know right. Like ending slavery. Idealism is pure fantasy!

 

[BanGy.nz]

I thought the Democrats got rid of the blue dog Democrats?

Are they still and thing and being elected?

They're down from 54 in 2008 to 14 members currently, many of them were replaced by Tea-partiers.

 

[makingmusic476]

They're down from 54 in 2008 to 14 members currently, many of them were replaced by Tea-partiers.

I imagine gerrymandering is helping to ensure that moderates are less likely to be elected in any particular district.

Of course, that doesn't mean they won't continue to get elected, especially for positions outside of congress. Our new Democratic Governor here in Louisiana is simultaneously expanding Medicaid, establishing LGBT protections, and implementing 72 hour wait periods for abortions.

 

[pigeon]

I know right. Like ending slavery. Idealism is pure fantasy!

Funny example, since Lincoln explicitly campaigned on the platform that he preferred preserving the Union and getting incremental improvements or half-measures like Liberia or slave purchases over emancipation.

It turns out that the kind of pragmatic thinker who argues for pragmatic improvements on the campaign trail tends to be perfectly capable of making huge and revolutionary changes when they would be pragmatic!

 

[DragonSworne]

Funny example, since Lincoln explicitly campaigned on the platform that he preferred preserving the Union and getting incremental improvements or half-measures like Liberia or slave purchases over emancipation.

It turns out that the kind of pragmatic thinker who argues for pragmatic improvements on the campaign trail tends to be perfectly capable of making huge and revolutionary changes when they would be pragmatic!

And history has shown that the people who campaign on idealism often times reign in the most oppressive and brutal regimes.


We don't need a revolution.

 

[boiled goose]

I for one am a fan of progressive primary endorsements.

"Purity" Test? Fine by me.

 

[Knoxcore]

I'm in this camp.

So you're one of those people who say they'll support Trump over Clinton but Bernie over Trump? But will change your mind and vote Clinton over Trump when Bernie drops out?

 

[pigeon]

So you're one of those people who say they'll support Trump over Clinton but Bernie over Trump? But will change your mind and vote Clinton over Trump when Bernie drops out?

Based on the post he's responding to, I think he's saying he used to support Bernie over Hillary over Trump and now has mostly given up on Bernie.

 

[JP_]

I thought the Democrats got rid of the blue dog Democrats?

Are they still and thing and being elected?

Obamacare was gutted by a Democrat, Ben Nelson. He pushed for states to run exchanges (look how good that turned out) and he threatened to filibuster ACA until the public option was stripped from the law. Think women should be able to afford abortions? He made sure ACA included limitations there too. He was responsible for the cornhusker kickback debacle while they were trying to pass it and his push for state run exchanges almost got the law destroyed in the supreme court case regarding subsides.

 

[Bonen no Max'd]

I thought the Democrats got rid of the blue dog Democrats?

Are they still and thing and being elected?

There's still a few around, but it wasn't the Democrats who wiped out the Blue Dogs (who are valuable even if they aren't as left as the rest of the party) but Republicans who mostly took their seats during the Tea Party wave in 2010.

Blue Dogs aren't inherently terrible though, they're much more willing to compromise and work with the party than current Republicans and are still semi-reliable votes. In 08 my normally red district elected Walt Minnick, who voted against the ACA but still voted with the party 70% of the time and having that seat helps keep the Speaker of the House a Democrat. He wasn't a progressive champion but better him than current Republicans.

 

[hydragonwarrior]

Why should there be compromise? Stop voting Republican and there would be no need for compromise

I never understand why Democrats always compromise even when they did control the house and the Senate and even the damn white house.

That small fraction of time which they did was not enough to push sweeping reform; ACA squeaked in just barely.