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[Spider from Mars]

Having not seen Avatar yet, My top two go to Benjamin Button and District 9 respectively.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

Neytiri in Avatar wins.

 

[robertsan21]

I would probably have to say Avatar or benjamin buttons

1.Avatar
2.Benjamin buttons
3.Davy jones
4.Gollum

 

[BobsRevenge]

I would probably have to say Avatar or benjamin buttons

1.Avatar
2.Benjamin buttons
3.Davy jones
4.Gollum

I thought I was the only one who pluralized "Button" when talking about that movie. :lol

I still haven't seen it though.

 

[MattKeil]

... Dude, District 9's last act was all Michael Bay shit. It screamed Michael Bay.

No, it didn't. D9's last act is entirely motivated by story and character, and every single beat in the action sequences serves a story-related purpose. You know why what's happening is happening, you know what's at stake, you know what the characters in the scene want, and the characters are clearly trying to achieve those goals by way of their actions. Michael Bay's entire problem is that all of these elements are absent from his films' climaxes, which is why they feel hollow and occasionally boring. If you feel those elements are absent from D9, you are wrong.

I'd say the Na'vi upped the bar for believable performances in CGI, but the D9 aliens and/or Davy Jones still hold the "I believe that thing on the screen is a real creature" crown.

 

[PantherLotus]

... Dude, District 9's last act was all Michael Bay shit. It screamed Michael Bay.

But it didn't have Aquafina, Dodge, Chevy, or Pepsi ads plastered everywhere!

 

[Ether_Snake]

 

[Dabookerman]

I would probably have to say Avatar or benjamin buttons

1.Avatar
2.Benjamin buttons
3.Davy jones
4.Gollum

I wouldn't really count Benjamin Button as it was really replicated a human than a fictional character (like the other 3). While the technical achievement is amazing, I can't really compare Button. Not saying you're wrong btw, just that, Button is somewhat a different category. Something on the lines of Beowulf. Also, Button's head was the only thing that was CG, and the techniques used to achieve that was completely different as well. Almost masking.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

I think that Neytiri is the most realistic-looking CGI character that I have yet seen. You could tell that Cameron really wanted her to be amazing-looking. Her, Christopher, and Davey Jones are all in a three-way battle for the top, but for my money, she wins.

 

[jett]

After seeing Avatar, it's really hard to say either Neytiri or Jake's avatar. They're flawless.

Davy Jones is not flawless. There's a scene in POTC3 where Davy Jones wipes a tear off his face with one of his tentacles, looked totally retarded and fake.

 

[Dabookerman]

After seeing Avatar, it's really hard to say either Neytiri or Jake's avatar. They're flawless.

Davy Jones is not flawless. There's a scene in POTC3 where Davy Jones wipes a tear off his face with one of his tentacles, looked totally retarded and fake.

There is no such thing as flawless in CG ;p

 

[jett]

There is no such thing as flawless in CG ;p

For now they are, for me. Not a single scene in Avatar took me out of the experience.

 

[Magnus]

Gollum. No substitutions.

 

[Dead]

No other answer than this.

 

[Zeliard]

I can't believe people are saying Gollum. Go watch Two Towers nowadays. He was a great achievement five years ago, but he stands out rather hugely in contrast to the human characters if you see it these days.

 

[Dabookerman]

For now they are, for me. Not a single scene in Avatar took me out of the experience.

Oh no certainly. The way to look at CG is, it's as good as we can make it within the time frame given to us.

And I agree, the achievement done in Avatar is out there, and is the next step as far as I'm concerned in creating characters and locations. Can't wait to see what's next. I think for me it's the Hobbit. I am so excited to see Smaug.

I can't believe people are saying Gollum. Go watch Two Towers nowadays. He was a great achievement five years ago, but he stands out rather hugely in contrast to the human characters if you see it these days.

Gollum stands out less than some of the other characters in the trilogy I think. It's more the performance than the quality of the CG, which is with all characters I guess. But they really did a great job with taking that character out of the book and onto the screen.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Not Gollum. He moved like Roger Rabbit. Those Avatar dudes are probably the best really. But Drake is the one with the most believable and likeable character.

 

[jett]

I can't believe people are saying Gollum. Go watch Two Towers nowadays. He was a great achievement five years ago, but he stands out rather hugely in contrast to the human characters if you see it these days.

Nearly all of the CG in LOTR has aged badly, actually. I lulz at Gollum.

 

[BobsRevenge]

No, it didn't. D9's last act is entirely motivated by story and character, and every single beat in the action sequences serves a story-related purpose. You know why what's happening is happening, you know what's at stake, you know what the characters in the scene want, and the characters are clearly trying to achieve those goals by way of their actions. Michael Bay's entire problem is that all of these elements are absent from his films' climaxes, which is why they feel hollow and occasionally boring. If you feel those elements are absent from D9, you are wrong.

I'd say the Na'vi upped the bar for believable performances in CGI, but the D9 aliens and/or Davy Jones still hold the "I believe that thing on the screen is a real creature" crown.

It went really stylish and contrived with the action sequences. It was packed with action movie cliches, but wasn't self-conscious about it. It was also violence that was meant to look cool and exciting as chief priorities. That's how it was like Bay for me.

D9's character CG isn't the most consistent. At times it felt extremely natural, but during others it was pretty awkward. I was really impressed with it as a whole, though. Definitely up there.

 

[Hasphat'sAnts]

Not Gollum. He moved like Roger Rabbit.

The visual detail might not be there, but he's still a fantastic character.

 

[Zeliard]

Gollum stands out less than some of the other characters in the trilogy I think. It's more the performance than the quality of the CG, which is with all characters I guess. But they really did a great job with taking that character out of the book and onto the screen.

In terms of the way his look was designed and how he was acted by Serkis? Fantastic, and that's not something that will be damaged by time.

But the way he's rendered on screen, if you watch it nowadays, it's extremely easy to tell the difference between him and the humans. To a far greater degree than Davy Jones, or the District 9 and Avatar aliens, in my opinion.

Still, Gollum is obviously hugely innovative and influential. Cameron himself said he didn't even seriously start work on Avatar till he saw Gollum in Two Towers.

 

[StuBurns]

Nearly all of the CG in LOTR has aged badly, actually. I lulz at Gollum.

I had this conversation with a friend the other day. Discussing if Avatar would date. Cameron's use of CG has been impeccable in the past, T2 still looks amazing for the most part, The Abyss (despite being kind of ugly) still looks totally consistent in regards to CG. And Titanic still looks really great.

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

My vote goes to Aki Ross with the only fault being the animation.

* 60,000 fully rendered and individually animated strands of hair.
* 400,000 polygons.
* Fully rendered model, unlike Benjamin Buttons who is not.
* She was also rendered inside a complete CGI environment with other characters also sporting 400,000 polys a piece.
* Rendered resolution must have been insanely high due to aliasing being very minimal, unlike the new FF films.

 

[Ether_Snake]

My vote goes to Aki Ross with the only fault being the animation.

* 60,000 fully rendered and individually animated strands of hair.
* 400,000 polygons.
* Fully rendered model, unlike Benjamin Buttons who is not.
* She was also rendered inside a complete CGI environment with other characters also sporting 400,000 polys a piece.
* Rendered resolution must have been insanely high due to aliasing being very minimal, unlike the new FF films.

400,000 polygons is nothing nowadays.

 

[jett]

My vote goes to Aki Ross with the only fault being the animation.

* 60,000 fully rendered and individually animated strands of hair.
* 400,000 polygons.
* Fully rendered model, unlike Benjamin Buttons who is not.
* She was also rendered inside a complete CGI environment with other characters also sporting 400,000 polys a piece.
* Rendered resolution must have been insanely high due to aliasing being very minimal, unlike the new FF films.

The cars in GT5 are each over 200k polys. :lol

 

[Truant]

Not Gollum. He moved like Roger Rabbit. Those Avatar dudes are probably the best really. But Drake is the one with the most believable and likeable character.

Ugh.

 

[Dabookerman]

In terms of the way his look was designed and how he was acted by Serkis? Fantastic, and that's not something that will be damaged by time.

But the way he's rendered on screen, if you watch it nowadays, it's extremely easy to tell the difference between him and the humans. To a far greater degree than Davy Jones, or the District 9 and Avatar aliens, in my opinion.

Still, Gollum is obviously hugely innovative and influential. Cameron himself said he didn't even seriously start work on Avatar till he saw Gollum in Two Towers.

Of course. Gollum was the first character to be realized using those techniques, and pretty much paved the way for Davy Jones and Avatar, and the quality would be higher quality.

I had this conversation with a friend the other day. Discussing if Avatar would date. Cameron's use of CG has been impeccable in the past, T2 still looks amazing for the most part, The Abyss (despite being kind of ugly) still looks totally consistent in regards to CG. And Titanic still looks really great.

T2 is funny. The amount of cheating that is used in CG is amazing. Ray Tracing wasn't used for T2, so they used refection maps. And my teacher told me to watch the helicopter scene when he jumps on, and look at the reflections and see how they don't make sense, and they don't! Now it's amazing how you get away with that. It's all about how you use the CG and trick the audience.

Gollum's main achievment was his physical presence amongst the actors. He may not look as real as he Na'vi, but the presence is there, and you believe in him. I suppose now you can see the age, but then you could say the same about Davy Jones and Avatar in 8 or so years time. Again, it's all about how the CG is used.

 

[Burai]

It's still Davey Jones. I remember reading reviews after I came home from the show and multiple reviewers didn't even know it was CG.

They "cheat" a bit with Davy Jones. The eyes and mouth are always the most difficult bit to get right. With Davy, they, wherever possible, use Bill Nighy's actual bottom lip, teeth, tongue and eyes (with recolouring) and CGI the rest around it. In effect, they've generated the costume rather than the man. The reviewers were kind of right - Nighy was wearing a mask... A mask made of polygons and textures.

 

[Dabookerman]

My vote goes to Aki Ross with the only fault being the animation.

* 60,000 fully rendered and individually animated strands of hair.
* 400,000 polygons.
* Fully rendered model, unlike Benjamin Buttons who is not.
* She was also rendered inside a complete CGI environment with other characters also sporting 400,000 polys a piece.
* Rendered resolution must have been insanely high due to aliasing being very minimal, unlike the new FF films.

Polycount is meaningless thanks to Zbrush nowadays ;p There's nothing impressive about those numbers. It's all about render times. And that fluctuates every year.

They "cheat" a bit with Davy Jones. The eyes and mouth are always the most difficult bit to get right. With Davy, they, wherever possible, use Bill Nighy's actual bottom lip, teeth, tongue and eyes (with recolouring) and CGI the rest around it. In effect, they've generated the costume rather than the man. The reviewers were kind of right - Nighy was wearing a mask... A mask made of polygons and textures.

They never resorted to using his live version.

 

[Cow Mengde]

 

[Truant]

They "cheat" a bit with Davy Jones. The eyes and mouth are always the most difficult bit to get right. With Davy, they, wherever possible, use Bill Nighy's actual bottom lip, teeth, tongue and eyes (with recolouring) and CGI the rest around it. In effect, they've generated the costume rather than the man. The reviewers were kind of right - Nighy was wearing a mask... A mask made of polygons and textures.

I'm pretty sure they didn't use his eyes in the final film.

 

[StuBurns]

T2 is funny. The amount of cheating that is used in CG is amazing. Ray Tracing wasn't used for T2, so they used refection maps. And my teacher told me to watch the helicopter scene when he jumps on, and look at the reflections and see how they don't make sense, and they don't! Now it's amazing how you get away with that. It's all about how you use the CG and trick the audience.

There are a couple of spotty bits, for me the most obvious is when the T-1000 puts his 'arms' between the doors of the lift, you see them as normal steel, then after the cutaway they are 'liquid metal', and it loses all texture, and it's just very noticeable. But for the most part, it still pretty incredible in comparison to LotR, which already looks kind of rough. Maybe they'll touch it up when they commit to the dimensionalization.

 

[Dead]

I had this conversation with a friend the other day. Discussing if Avatar would date. Cameron's use of CG has been impeccable in the past, T2 still looks amazing for the most part, The Abyss (despite being kind of ugly) still looks totally consistent in regards to CG. And Titanic still looks really great.

I agree. The CGI in Avatar will obviously eventually be topped, but I don't think it will ever look bad in retrospect, unlike a lot of the work done on LOTR

 

[Ether_Snake]

Polycount is meaningless thanks to Zbrush nowadays ;p There's nothing impressive about those numbers. It's all about render times. And that fluctuates every year.



They never resorted to using his live version.

For the eyes yes.

 

[Dabookerman]

For the eyes yes.

Source?

 

[Truant]

I agree. The CGI in Avatar will obviously eventually be topped, but I don't think it will ever look bad in retrospect, unlike a lot of the work done on LOTR

Some shots in LOTR actually look kinda good because of their apparent CG/miniature mix, in a stylized sort of way.

The green screen during some scenes is worse than the CG, though. Especially when the hobbits are hitching a ride with the ent.

 

[Truant]

Source?

NAH, CUSTOM NAUGHTY DOG ENGINE FUCK I LOVE DRAKE

 

[Dead]

Some shots in LOTR actually look kinda good because of their apparent CG/miniature mix, in a stylized sort of way.

The green screen during some scenes is worse than the CG, though. Especially when the hobbits are hitching a ride with the ent.

I think most of the dodgy CG was in Two Towers and ROTK (CGI Legolas, WHY). Fellowship was mostly fine actually.

 

[jett]

For the eyes yes.

We've had this argument in this very thread before. No part of Bill Nighy's body remains in Davy Jones.

 

[Dabookerman]

Some shots in LOTR actually look kinda good because of their apparent CG/miniature mix, in a stylized sort of way.

The green screen during some scenes is worse than the CG, though. Especially when the hobbits are hitching a ride with the ent.

That's more to do with the compositing which I admit, Weta aren't the best at. Although They did do a pretty damn good job with Avatar. King Kong is a great example of their rusty compositing.

 

[Truant]

We've had this argument in this very thread before. No part of Bill Nighy's body remains in Davy Jones.

Yes, no need to start that whole discussion again. He's completely CG.

 

[KeeSomething]

Neytiri will be spectacular.

By the end of the movie, I was in love with her.

Not only is she beautifully design and flawlessly animated, but she is a great character.

 

[jett]

By the end of the movie, I was in love with her.

Not only is she beautifully design and flawlessly animated, but she is a great character.

Those screenshots don't even begin to express how amazing she is in the movie. The biggest compliment I can give to Avatar is that the movie made me wish I was Jake.

 

[Solo]

mmmmmmmm tasty crow. In other words: I recant - Davy Jones has been usurped. Let us all bow down to our new goddess Neytiri.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

I would like to reiterate that Davey Jones is 100% CG. Bill Nighy is gone from the final model.

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

The cars in GT5 are each over 200k polys. :lol

Sigh...

Are you suggesting that the PS3 could render Final Fantasy Spirits Within in real-time?

Spirits Within was rendered on a farm of 960 Pentium III-933MHz workstations that still took 1.5 hours (5,400 seconds) per frame. At 24 frames per second, for the final movie to be rendered in real time, would take a lot more than 1 PS3.

 

[jett]

Sigh...

Are you suggesting that the PS3 could render Final Fantasy Spirits Within in real-time?

Spirits Within was rendered on a farm of 960 Pentium III-933MHz workstations that still took 1.5 hours (5,400 seconds) per frame. At 24 frames per second, for the final movie to be rendered in real time, would take a lot more than 1 PS3.

I'm suggesting that what you said means absolutely nothing. Aki Ross does not look great today, and animates even worse.

 

[KeeSomething]

Those screenshots don't even begin to express how amazing she is in the movie. The biggest compliment I can give to Avatar is that the movie made me wish I was Jake.

That's what made the story so effective, even if it's been done a million times, no other movie has Neytiri.

My friends thought I was nuts thinking she was beautiful. Like, seriously, I find her more attractive than Sarah Chalke, and she's my ex-dream girl.

 

[StuBurns]

The gulf between Aki and Neytiri is laughable.

 

[Dabookerman]

Sigh...

Are you suggesting that the PS3 could render Final Fantasy Spirits Within in real-time?

Spirits Within was rendered on a farm of 960 Pentium III-933MHz workstations that still took 1.5 hours (5,400 seconds) per frame. At 24 frames per second, for the final movie to be rendered in real time, would take a lot more than 1 PS3.

Avatar took 48 hours or however it was to render one frame on one of the most powerful and fastest render farms in the world. ;p