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[GodfatherX]

he really died in 1999

 

[Truant]

Avatar took 48 hours or however it was to render one frame on one of the most powerful and fastest render farms in the world. ;p

And Cameron wants to double the framerate...

 

[XiaNaphryz]

Avatar took 48 hours or however it was to render one frame on one of the most powerful and fastest render farms in the world. ;p

Hell, some of the IMAX TF2 shots we had to render took 72 hours per frame. I don't know what this guy's trying to argue. :lol

 

[StuBurns]

And Cameron wants to double the framerate...

Maybe he can get away with no 2D render. Right now they're rendering a left, right and central frame for every frame right? If they can drop the 2D, and double the framerate, the resource increase isn't that much.

 

[Veidt]

Hell, some of the IMAX TF2 shots we had to render took 72 hours per frame. I don't know what this guy's trying to argue. :lol

72 hours.ONE frame? That must have taken...
...

12 Years!?

(72 hours) times 12 years = 9.81546626 × 1013 s2

Whoa...

 

[Kaako]

Definitely Neytiri/Jake from Avatar gets my vote.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Avatar took 48 hours or however it was to render one frame on one of the most powerful and fastest render farms in the world. ;p

That would be 7 seconds of footage for a year of rendering...

 

[XiaNaphryz]

72 hours.ONE frame? That must have taken...
...

12 Years!?

It's a peak number, not an average. ;P Wouldn't be surprised if the Avatar number is also a peak.

 

[Dabookerman]

Hell, some of the IMAX TF2 shots we had to render took 72 hours per frame. I don't know what this guy's trying to argue. :lol

Yup. I remember that :lol I actually don't know why. But it must have been all the ray tracing I guess right ;p

 

[StuBurns]

It's a peak number, not an average. ;P Wouldn't be surprised if the Avatar number is also a peak.

What does that mean? That's taking into account calculations for lighting and fluid dynamics and things? That being the case, the banshee flight over the ocean breaking on the rocks would be my guess for the most demanding frames of Avatar. Although Jake grabbing his stick out the water is prettier.

 

[Veidt]

It's a peak number, not an average. ;P Wouldn't be surprised if the Avatar number is also a peak.

Ah makes sense
You guys did a damn good job and will hopefully continue to do so.

 

[MidgarBlowedUp]

Avatar took 48 hours or however it was to render one frame on one of the most powerful and fastest render farms in the world. ;p

Well, looks like they could have made Neytiri's hair better then.

I haven't seen Avatar yet but, if Neytiri really is completely CG that's one fantastically believable model and I stand corrected.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

Yup. I remember that :lol I actually don't know why. But it must have been all the ray tracing I guess right ;p

In our case, it's number of polys in the scene combined with the higher IMAX resolution, plus whatever simulation has to be run underneath for particle effects. Never mind the memory needed for textures alone - I think we had 32 GB of textures for just Devestator.

 

[Veidt]

In our case, it's number of polys in the scene combined with the higher IMAX resolution, plus whatever simulation has to be run underneath for particle effects. Never mind the memory needed for textures alone - I think we had 32 GB of textures for just Devestator.

Yeah, and he was like a minor character. Someone like Optimus, who is in the front field all the time, must have been demanding as hell. All the scratches ect.

 

[Zzoram]

And Cameron wants to double the framerate...

Thank goodness that SOMEONE is pushing to increase framerate in movies. Right now 24fps is just weak. Every time anything moves remotely quick, it just becomes a blurry mess.

 

[Dabookerman]

Yeah, and he was like a minor character. Someone like Optimus, who is in the front field all the time, must have been demanding as hell. All the scratches ect.

In our case, it's number of polys in the scene combined with the higher IMAX resolution, plus whatever simulation has to be run underneath for particle effects. Never mind the memory needed for textures alone - I think we had 32 GB of textures for just Devestator.

You guys pretty much used turned all the sliders all the way to the right with the movie I suppose :lol Of course, taking the Imax res into account will do that. And you must have used something beyond 4k textures right?

 

[XiaNaphryz]

Yeah, and he was like a minor character.

Plot-wise maybe, but not to everyone else working on the show. :lol I think he topped out at a bit over 52,500 individual parts for a total of 12 million+ polys.

The entire show at peak took up over 80% of our rendering capacity of about 7700 procs - the main renderfarm has about 5700, many of which are dual proc and quad core, so eight procs per blade and a possible high of 32 GB of memory per blade...we can also throw in unused processors from workstations around the facility (mainly comes into play for overnight renders), which is the remaining 2000 or so.

You guys pretty much used turned all the sliders all the way to the right with the movie I suppose :lol Of course, taking the Imax res into account will do that. And you must have used something beyond 4k textures right?

We ran tests up to 5k. It was decided to stay at 4k as color grading and doing clean paint work would be a lot more difficult above that number given the schedule constraints.

 

[Dabookerman]

Plot-wise maybe, but not to everyone else working on the show. :lol I think he topped out at a bit over 52,500 individual parts for a total of 12 million+ polys.

The entire show at peak took up over 80% of our rendering capacity of about 7700 procs - the main renderfarm has about 5700, many of which are dual proc and quad core, so eight procs per blade and a possible high of 32 GB of memory per blade...we can also throw in unused processors from workstations around the facility (mainly comes into play for overnight renders), which is the remaining 2000 or so.


We ran tests up to 5k. It was decided to stay at 4k as color grading and doing clean paint work would be a lot more difficult above that number given the schedule constraints.

Of course. The great thing about doing CG work is that you don't really have to worry about poly count, texture sized, how many textures etc and all that. btw what was your specific job?
And do you have a CG portfolio up or anything, would love to check some of it out.

 

[Chichikov]

Gerty -

p.s.
By and large, CGI characters sucks.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

Of course. The great thing about doing CG work is that you don't really have to worry about poly count, texture sized, how many textures etc and all that. btw what was your specific job?
And do you have a CG portfolio up or anything, would love to check some of it out.

I'm a manager on the engineering side, so nothing artistic I'm afraid.

 

[Truant]

I'm a manager on the engineering side, so nothing artistic I'm afraid.

I have a question, how serious is it if the director wants to change something late in the project? Do you have to re-render the whole thing? Do you just render it when the film is done?

 

[Visualante]

proof: http://i48.tinypic.com/2lsy29v.jpg

 

[Dabookerman]

I'm a manager on the engineering side, so nothing artistic I'm afraid.

Ah fair enough

 

[Gagaman]

Simple design but such an emotional and heart warming character. Most of the examples in this thread are just soulless in comparison.

 

[TheLegend]

I agree. The CGI in Avatar will obviously eventually be topped, but I don't think it will ever look bad in retrospect, unlike a lot of the work done on LOTR

I agree with your agreement. I wasn't even impressed with the CG in LOTR at the time, and it definitely doesn't hold up today. What Avatar does is leaps and bounds in front of LOTR, IMO. It's not even close.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

I have a question, how serious is it if the director wants to change something late in the project? Do you have to re-render the whole thing? Do you just render it when the film is done?

Depends on the change. Things like small color correction changes can usually be done without a complete re-render. For an example, in the behind the scenes docs on the TF2 discs, you can see Michael Bay doing last minute changes right before the Tokyo premiere. But most alterations to something (animation, model, a simulation element, shader, lighting) will require a rerender. Also, if say a model gets a major change due to a decision for a particular shot, our source control has to make sure that the updated asset gets propagated to all the other appropriate shots involving that model - it can't necessarily be a push to all shots involving said model due to possible continuity issues as well as director choices. So potentially, a last minute change can affect a large portion of the show and make a bunch of shots that were already deemed final have to undergo review again.

Also keep in mind that we have to keep track of the history of each asset in case a director wants to go back to a previous version of something if he decides he doesn't like the result.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

The one to top Cameron's achievement in AVATAR will be Cameron.

Even if an effects house ends up producing something more impressive than Neytiri, I don't see anybody producing something more impressive than AVATAR as a whole on a tech level. Pandora + the Na'vi is a bar that is unfathomably high.

 

[Solo]

Pandora + the Na'vi is a bar that is unfathomably high.

Indeed. In 6 years I wont be laughing at the effects of Avatar like I do with LOTR.

 

[Darklord]

Indeed. In 6 years I wont be laughing at the effects of Avatar like I do with LOTR.

LOTR has bad effects now?:lol

They still look better than 90% of the shit that is released(Transformers 2 for instance).

 

[Solo]

LOTR has bad effects now?:lol

LOTR had some issues WHEN IT RELEASED. They have only compounded since then. By comparison, Avatar seemed 100% seamless to me. WETA used LOTR as training and became masters for Avatar, basically.

 

[Chichikov]

The one to top Cameron's achievement in AVATAR will be Cameron.

Even if an effects house ends up producing something more impressive than Neytiri, I don't see anybody producing something more impressive than AVATAR as a whole on a tech level. Pandora + the Na'vi is a bar that is unfathomably high.

That is EXTREMELY unlikely; this one of the first films to have 3d digital actors, to think we're seeing the zenith of this technology so early in its life seems silly to me.

This is not a knock against Avatar or Cameron, it's just that history (and let's face it, common sense) is stacked against this ending up being true.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

LOTR had some issues WHEN IT RELEASED. They have only compounded since then. By comparison, Avatar seemed 100% seamless to me. WETA used LOTR as training and became masters for Avatar, basically.

Well let's not forget the reports that Cameron was initially unhappy with a lot of the work WETA was producing early in the project. The thing about Cameron is you can't trick him, if you listen to how he talks about how the fleshy part (fuck he even knows the name for what I'm talking about) between the jaw and the cheek should be lit when open, you know he's going to be busting some heads until everything is perfect.

That is EXTREMELY unlikely; this one of the first films to have 3d digital actors, to think we're seeing the zenith of this technology so early in its life seems silly to me.

This is not a knock against Avatar or Cameron, it's just that history (and let's face it, common sense) is stacked against this ending up being true.

I'm not saying EVER. I'm saying in the next few years.

 

[tabsina]

Avatar took 48 hours or however it was to render one frame on one of the most powerful and fastest render farms in the world. ;p

wow... that isn't a joke is it? if not - is there a link?

btw, i think in this thread someone said "Cameron threw some completely CG characters into the movie to throw people off" or something to that effect, who were these people - was it just the Na'vi, or humans too?

 

[StuBurns]

That is EXTREMELY unlikely; this one of the first films to have 3d digital actors, to think we're seeing the zenith of this technology so early in its life seems silly to me.

This is not a knock against Avatar or Cameron, it's just that history (and let's face it, common sense) is stacked against this ending up being true.

It's not that it'll never be topped, if Cameron does A2 or Battle Angel next he'll top it himself in a couple of years. I believe the point was it won't ever look poor in terms of CG, the same way The Abyss doesn't now, and yet LotRs is approaching it now.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

The thing about Cameron is you can't trick him, if you listen to how he talks about how the fleshy part (fuck he even knows the name for what I'm talking about) between the jaw and the cheek should be lit when open, you know he's going to be busting some heads until everything is perfect.

Just so you know, that sort of in-depth criticism isn't specific to Cameron alone. There's a handful of other directors who can get to that level during dailies. Hell, plenty of vfx supes and dps guys bring that stuff up all the time, it's just a question of whether a particular director cares about that level of detail or not.

 

[Solo]

Well let's not forget the reports that Cameron was initially unhappy with a lot of the work WETA was producing early in the project. The thing about Cameron is you can't trick him, if you listen to how he talks about how the fleshy part (fuck he even knows the name for what I'm talking about) between the jaw and the cheek should be lit when open, you know he's going to be busting some heads until everything is perfect.

Oh, definitely. Fuck I would HATE to work for Cameron in any capacity :lol

 

[I AM JOHN!]

You know what I can't stand? When movies bring the CGI in for simple blood effects. Zombieland just pissed me off with that. They had this horribly pasted on blood spatter thing going throughout the movie that made it irritating to watch.

Fun fact: in Japan, using CG blood instead of stage blood will get you a lower rating because of how less realistic it looks. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the other countries rating boards followed the same line of logic.

 

[Chichikov]

I'm not saying EVER. I'm saying in the next few years.

Yeah, I misinterpret your post a bit.
And seeing how much ahead of their time The Abyss and T2 were visually, unless Cameron waits another 12 years to make his next movie, that's a fairly safe bet.

 

[furrygiblets]

Everything about Avatar was gorgeous. it was truly a pleasure to watch the CG, brought a tear to my eye.