I guess the best way to argue my point would be to bring up the fact that camera control in these games was awful. Or at least it is by today's standards. I actually think that the Ratchet games control better tbh.
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Best movement/player control in 3D games still Super Mario 64 and Sunshine?
- Thread starter ant1532
- Start date
we aint talking cameras here, save that for your movies kidd
im jokey, dont be offended 
im gunna look up ratchet and clank, it never connected with me, but theres a good amount of people saying that so imma try it out one day
Bornstellar
Member
Titanfall. Literally the only flaws are the automatic ledge grabs and titan rodeos.
Natureboy99
Banned
Mario Galaxy move set was reduced though.
Mario 64:
Mario Galaxy:
http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/gameslist/manuals/Wii_Super_Mario_Galaxy.pdf
(page 4)
FPS games aren't my thing, but my gawd that nailed movement for sure, good call.
Beelzebufo
Banned
Yup! Sunshine is great, like Mario 64 but a lil better. I miss the long jump though.
Trigonometrize.
Member
3D World and Jak 1 are better than both those games.
this made me sad yes
the physics in galaxy make up for it yes, but have the moveset and speed in combination with that would be... heavy breathing
evilromero
Member
I loved Jak 1 but I disagree. It was still very bouncy. That typical non-Nintendo platformer where the character is just over-animated and the movement too weighty.
Mario 64 and Sunshine perfected what I would call traditional 3D platformer controls. Obviously the genre has splintered in the years since
3D World can't really be mentioned in the same sentence though. I would hardly say it's in the same class as Jak or Mario 64. It's extremely oversimplified for the benefit of the simplified levels and perspectives. Also, 3D World is much more action oriented so there's less need for the same kind of control mechanics as previously featured.
you know, i feel like 3d platformers deteriorated and aren't a thing today, because no one really attempted to emulate/match the movement we are talking about here.I feel like the precise control/speed/options is lost in 3d platformers after, or one is sacrificed for the other, whereas SM64 and sunshine have all three.
Cave Johnson
Member
The one thing I love about Mario is that it has contextual animations states that can be modified based on your input system. It's not just a standard texture with 4 cardinal directions mapped to your control stick but something akin to controlling an RC car where it is triggered by momentum rather than direct input, meaning a cancellation from the original command for another. (like a pong stick since it has no resistance)
Many of Mario's moves expand from the long jump, pound, side-flip all contribute to this "physics" add to the core "jump" system, you have a very dynamic character that exist as an actual physical object in the game world. It's surprising how many other developers can't get that right in their games.
Many of Mario's moves expand from the long jump, pound, side-flip all contribute to this "physics" add to the core "jump" system, you have a very dynamic character that exist as an actual physical object in the game world. It's surprising how many other developers can't get that right in their games.
Honestly I was under the impression that later Mario games have better controls than 64. Don't know about Sunshine as I've only played some bits of it, despite owning it I've never actually played that(need to play it ASAP).
Though, now that I think about it, during the little time I spent with the game I remember I was having ton of fun moving in the hub, the spinning jump and the sliding were amazing.
Good suggestion. The first game was a bit sloppy but with Going Commando you could already see some of the best controls in a 3d game.
Though, now that I think about it, during the little time I spent with the game I remember I was having ton of fun moving in the hub, the spinning jump and the sliding were amazing.
Good suggestion. The first game was a bit sloppy but with Going Commando you could already see some of the best controls in a 3d game.
this is fascinating what you are saying, i want more
evilromero
Member
This is one of the reasons why I didn't enjoy Galaxy as much as everyone else. It just wasn't as much fun to simply move around, which is kind of a funny thing to even say. Mario 64 was brilliant not only for its amazing 3D world but because moving Mario around was a lot of fun. It was like an extension of playing with toys but in a 3D world. It gave the player a great sense of agency without sacrificing the gameplay that was core to navigating the levels. That is one big aspect that has been lost in 3D platformers. The simple joy of just moving the character around.
With 3D World that idea was a distant memory. Replaced by an endless variety of action setpieces or one-off ideas that were simply holding the player's attention long enough to get through the level.
PetriP-TNT
Member
Super Mario 64 came and perfected the 3D platformer, on the first friggin' try. And on a single analog stick to boot.
There's simply just... joy when playing that game, even if you are just running around collecting coins.
There's simply just... joy when playing that game, even if you are just running around collecting coins.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Super Mario Sunshine definitely is the 3D game with the best base mechanics. Gorgeous level of control, full freeness in both, controlling Mario and the camera and a variety of fun moves. Super Mario 64 is considerably weaker in that regard.
Solid SOAP
Member
I am still waiting for a gameworld with as much depth and detail as Los Santos in GTA V, with the incredible controls of Super Mario Sunshine.
Skellig Gra
Member
The Rare games are really good but they are a touch below the 3D Marios, just not as precise/crisp in their responsiveness.
SM64 doesn't control well IMO. Playing it for the first time on Wii U, and the game leaves too much room for error. Feels like I'm fighting the controls and camera most of the time. Still a good game, but I think you'd have to have played it back when it released to really appreciate it.
Sly Cooper controls much better. Sly's movements chain together really well, the camera controls really well, and climbing around the environment works really well. Of course, playing as Murray and Bently in the sequels doesn't control nearly as well.
Sly Cooper controls much better. Sly's movements chain together really well, the camera controls really well, and climbing around the environment works really well. Of course, playing as Murray and Bently in the sequels doesn't control nearly as well.
Cave Johnson
Member
Thanks, it's just an observation I noticed while playing the game constantly again and again. Personally, I'd recommend Matthewmatosis' M64 review as he really breaks down the game down to its base mechanics. (You can follow up on his Galaxy and Sunshine reviews as he makes apt comparisons between them)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8S6myWz3Kzg
Voysa Reezun
Banned
I actually do like the options in SM64. I know people say that stuff like the punch is unnecessary, but watching a video where someone does back and sideflips along with belly slides to move effectively is always impressive. I'm always for move movement options if possible in platformers.
However, control-wise, the original is slippery and of course was limited by having only one analog stick and forcing you to fight the camera.
I'm really waiting for SM64 2 where the hub world contains levels that are in full 3D and that have stars rather than flagpoles. Galaxy was too linear, Sunshine fits I suppose, but I didn't enjoy the FLUDD thing, 3DW is what it is in terms of typical flagpole level design for Nintendo at this point, etc.
However, control-wise, the original is slippery and of course was limited by having only one analog stick and forcing you to fight the camera.
I'm really waiting for SM64 2 where the hub world contains levels that are in full 3D and that have stars rather than flagpoles. Galaxy was too linear, Sunshine fits I suppose, but I didn't enjoy the FLUDD thing, 3DW is what it is in terms of typical flagpole level design for Nintendo at this point, etc.
i agree totally and i think Cave's post is pretty enlightening and interesting
BUT daamn a little harsh on 3D world, no? the one off ideas are fun creative level design imo.
In terms of overall depth in movement systems, I'd say that Quake 3 Arena still holds the crown. There's pretty much no limit to how you can move your character and the physics system is so complex it's led to an entire scene dedicated to only exploring the platforming elements.
evilromero
Member
Don't get me wrong. I love 3D World and really enjoyed the multiplayer aspect. But it's such a different game that it's worth pointing out their divergences.
Lizard with a ladder
learnin' with the blacks!
Movement in 3D games was perfected with Ninja Gaiden Black. Playing as Ryu Hayabusa felt like you owned that terrain. It was one of your many tools in unleashing hell on your enemies.
Tom Nook Sawyer
Member
3D's World's controls are an abomination of how Mario games should play. A run button in a 3D platformer? Christ (and it has those stupid spark-boosts too)
Mario 64's--and to a lesser extent, Sunshine's--movement had an elegance to it that made the mere act of travelling fun and enjoyable. That was not the case in 3D World.
Mario 64's--and to a lesser extent, Sunshine's--movement had an elegance to it that made the mere act of travelling fun and enjoyable. That was not the case in 3D World.
The controls in Rare's platformers are adequate, and stood out against something like Croc back in the day but when you compare them to the average ps2-era platformer like Dr Muto theres nothing that elevates them past those. Theres a lot of specific contextual moves, and they dont match the versatility of Mario.
I think Jak is on a rung in between the two, theres neat stuff there (the roll into long jump is nice, you chain a punch into an uppercut, the later games gave cool boosts to the weapons if you used them conjuction with Jak's moves) but it lacks the full fluidity.
James Scott
Banned
Galaxy is better although it looses the slide ability in favor for the spin attack.
Can't believe people prefer the streamlined Galaxy and Mario 3D controls.
Matthematosis really nails it in his video exploring Mario 64 and comparing it to the others. You just have so much more movement options in 64 and Sunshine compared to the other Mario games.
Matthematosis really nails it in his video exploring Mario 64 and comparing it to the others. You just have so much more movement options in 64 and Sunshine compared to the other Mario games.