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Big publishers and developers are worried about services like Gamepass

darkinstinct

...lacks reading comprehension.
Concerned that I don't buy games I wouldn't have bought otherwise? Or concerned that I don't buy their games because Game Pass gives me enough to play? Either way, their argumentation has a huge flaw: Going by PS4 numbers, you sell 11 games per console. Even assuming a full price (the number includes digital downloads of much cheaper games) I end up at $94 per year. That's what they are all fighting for. Now with Game Pass, that number rises to $120 a year. That's what you spend per year on the service. That's $26 or around 27 % more that they can fight for. Yes, Microsoft takes a cut of that, but they also take a cut out of the $94, a 30 % cut. And if those purchases are physical, that number overall gets down to $47 per year or 50 % of the total revenue. Compared to $120, because Game Pass is fully digital.

So no matter how you see it, if every publisher would put their games on Game Pass day 1 - they would probably make more money than they do now. It's simple math.
 

DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
Concerned that I don't buy games I wouldn't have bought otherwise? Or concerned that I don't buy their games because Game Pass gives me enough to play? Either way, their argumentation has a huge flaw: Going by PS4 numbers, you sell 11 games per console. Even assuming a full price (the number includes digital downloads of much cheaper games) I end up at $94 per year. That's what they are all fighting for. Now with Game Pass, that number rises to $120 a year. That's what you spend per year on the service. That's $26 or around 27 % more that they can fight for. Yes, Microsoft takes a cut of that, but they also take a cut out of the $94, a 30 % cut. And if those purchases are physical, that number overall gets down to $47 per year or 50 % of the total revenue. Compared to $120, because Game Pass is fully digital.

So no matter how you see it, if every publisher would put their games on Game Pass day 1 - they would probably make more money than they do now. It's simple math.
You assume the terms currently offered to companies will hold. They won't. We already have examples of content-creators getting squeezed out as the margins shrink (music streaming, video streaming, PS+).

This is a classic loss-leader strategy and it cannot maintain itself forever. Netflix would still be bursting at the seams with video content if your "simple math" applied in the real world.
 
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Iorv3th

Member
Please think about yourself and your own money rather than worrying about "big publishers and developers".
They'll adapt and survive, they'll have to.

EVERYTHING is going to go to a "netflix" style service eventually ( Except Stadia lol)

I don't think the concern is about our own money. It's about the hobby we enjoy changing to fit these netflix style subscriptions and what that might mean for quality content.
Them adapting and surviving may not be great for the consumer at all.
 

mcjmetroid

Member
You came from the future? Last time I heard that lootbox was born.

in relation to what? I'm not following you here.

Lootboxes were born because companies kept seeing how much they could get away with micro-transactions and that's where we ended up. The profits became way too much for shareholders so there's almost no turning back.

I haven't read the full article but I have ZERO sympathy for any challenge thrown at BIG publishers and developers because of how they've acted the past 10 years.
 

Fake

Member
in relation to what? I'm not following you here.

Lootboxes were born because companies kept seeing how much they could get away with micro-transactions and that's where we ended up. The profits became way too much for shareholders so there's almost no turning back.

I haven't read the full article but I have ZERO sympathy for any challenge thrown at BIG publishers and developers because of how they've acted the past 10 years.
Lootboxes was an effect from companies to... wait for a moment... earn money. You say they will survive, but how? Dude, just a little commom sense. They will survive, yes, by any means necessary. Lootboxes are one of them. Don't act like lootbox have nothing to do with that because is exactly why they exist. Lootbox, Micro-transactions, DLCs, Free-to-Play... As much you say they need to adapt, they will indeed.
And between us, devs know better than us.
 
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the bussiness model good for consumer..they need to pay less to play game..but for developers is different..they need lot of money to make game

for smaller devs might be ok..but for triple A game it would be different...game nowdays cost very high with years of development period..they surely want recover back their initial budget

After all its up for money resource to determine the scale and quality of the game..to do all this need technology,manpower and time which is fall to money resources

there concern that devs might end up get low pay another concern of developers need to put microtransaction to cover the cost and there concern it might affected game quality infuture due to lower budget...thats developers site

on consumer site there concern of you dont own the game, what happened when service shutdown blahblahblah..

talk about netflix, thats probably why ms goes acquire studio..not just because to compete with sony but also for their first party content, like how netflix does where they no need to depend on third party content, incase those company decided to pull out their game. But i heard company like netflix spend tons of money to make quality content though..not sure how it would cope up the budget...for film and music, they still had different platform like cinema and concert. I am not suprise if they increase the price or do whatever need to makesure money keep flowing in future. Basically, enjoy what we have today while it still 'cheap'.

but i believe this model wont replace what we use todays...this just add additional option to the existing model and this things still new...here lot of things need to be ironed out.

Excellent post.

The way I have always viewed this in respect to publishers is kind of the same I've viewed Netflix, Hulu, Prime, etc. There aren't really many "big" movies that launch day one on these services unless they are direct from the service provider themselves. I could be wrong, but I don't remember any. Maybe that will change with Disney+, we might see Star Wars or Marvel movies or their animated/Pixar movies launching into the service the same day they are available to purchase on disc, but I don't remember this happening ever on Netflix/Hulu, etc. I could be wrong. What you instead see is day one launches of smaller, lesser known movies. Some that don't even see wide physical release at all. And then eventually, when the big studios think their big movies have gotten their run of DVD/BR sales and digital rentals, they'll license these movies out to streaming services. In this scenario it doesn't seem like anyone loses. Subscribers to the services get original exclusive content, some trash, some amazing. They get content day one that might be lesser known but still very good. They get access to hugely popular content down the line.

This is exactly how GamePass has worked. You get day one access to Microsoft's own games. You get day one access to other titles that are lesser known. We just got Yakuza 0 and Two Point Hospital. You eventually get bigger third party titles well after release. Kingdom Hearts 3 just got on the service too. I don't think this hurts Square because the game has already had a long retail run. If MS offers them a bag of cash and they run the numbers and figure the cash is close to or even exceeds what they figure they'll make going forward off the game at retail on Xbone, why is that a bad thing? Seems a win win. MS gets content, consumers get content, Square gets guaranteed revenue. And sure here's this article with anonymous people supposedly claiming stuff, but we've had real flesh and blood named developers talking about how GamePass has helped their titles see surges in sales and stuff. Kingdom Hearts for example, maybe someone who never would have bought the game plays it on GamePass and now they buy DLC. Maybe they play KH3 and enjoyed it and buy that prequel collection that just came out. Thanks to games like Slay the Spire and Children of Morta, I'll be looking out for and trying the next games from those devs. When, without GamePass, I never would have tried those games.

The only thing I can see big publishers bitch about is that GamePass offers so much stuff that gamers find themselves without time or desire to buy said publishers big titles. To which I say, eat shit. Big publishers need to do a better job making their games valuable as it is. We don't need to be shitting on a very pro-consumer service for the sake of these big publishers. Plus even we as gamers devalue titles enough already on our own. In every GamePass thread you see people talking about how the games are just "indies or old worthless titles". That kind of mentality is exactly why you see some publishers supporting the fuck out of GamePass, they know a bag of Microsoft money is probably better than revenue from dropping their games 50-75% off to sell to gamers who want to wait for value or buy used.
 

mcjmetroid

Member
Lootboxes was an effect from companies to... wait for a moment... earn money. You say they will survive, but how? Dude, just a little commom sense. They will survive, yes, by any means necessary. Lootboxes are one of them. Don't act like lootbox have nothing to do with that because is exactly why they exist. Lootbox, Micro-transactions, DLCs, Free-to-Play... As much you say they need to adapt, they will indeed.
And between us, devs know better than us.

Wait a minute...
Lootboxes exist because we're all using a subscription service like Netflix now for gaming?
 
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Fake

Member
Wait a minute...
Lootboxes exist because we're all using a subscription service like Netflix now for gaming?
Jez... Lootboxes exist because are one of the methods companies find to earn money. Got that? Will happen in the same way. They'll adapt and survive, they'll have to.
 
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Hobbygaming

has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Please think about yourself and your own money rather than worrying about "big publishers and developers".
They'll adapt and survive, they'll have to.

EVERYTHING is going to go to a "netflix" style service eventually ( Except Stadia lol)
I am thinking about myself and the future of the hobby I love
 

GHG

Member
It's like people don't realise they can still enjoy gamepass while being aware of the issues it might be creating for publishers and developers in the background. All I'm seeing in this thread is this:

giphy.gif


When big greedy AAA companies are worrying about your business strategy it means you're doing the right thing for consumers.

The irony is that it's a big greedy AAA company creating this scenario.
 
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mcjmetroid

Member
Jez... Lootboxes exist because are one of the methods companies find to earn money. Got that? Will happen in the same way.
Dude, You can stop your annoying facepalm posts because I'm making you respond to your initial smartarse post that had nothing to do with the topic at hand and continues to have nothing to do with the topic at hand. You brought up lootboxes not me.

I know lootboxes make companies money. Where did I say I didn't?

What I am saying is.... wait for it.... (and I'll even bold it for you)
Lootboxes will exist WITH or WITHOUT a netflix style service

How difficult is that to understand?
 

darkinstinct

...lacks reading comprehension.
You assume the terms currently offered to companies will hold. They won't. We already have examples of content-creators getting squeezed out as the margins shrink (music streaming, video streaming, PS+).

This is a classic loss-leader strategy and it cannot maintain itself forever. Netflix would still be bursting at the seams with video content if your "simple math" applied in the real world.
And Netflix isn't? They are spending 14 billion in 2020 on new original content. Compared to say Disney with 2 billion.
 

Fake

Member
Dude, You can stop your annoying facepalm posts because I'm making you respond to your initial smartarse post that had nothing to do with the topic at hand and continues to have nothing to do with the topic at hand. You brought up lootboxes not me.

I know lootboxes make companies money. Where did I say I didn't?

What I am saying is.... wait for it.... (and I'll even bold it for you)
Lootboxes will exist WITH or WITHOUT a netflix style service

How difficult is that to understand?
You're the one with hard understanding here. I talking about the side effect of implement 'consumer friendly' methods to push devs in other ways of earn money. How you could imagine 'lootboxes will exist with or without a netflix style service' before even that was created? I gave you a list in my previous post, impling they could create a 'new' other method of making money besides lootbox... those 'netflix' gaming service are just accelerate the process. How hard is to understand that?
 
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DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
And Netflix isn't? They are spending 14 billion in 2020 on new original content. Compared to say Disney with 2 billion.

Like I said, these loss-leader strategies have a fuse. It's not eternal. Subscriptions work great as a way to package and sell low-value content. Subscriptions are a terrible business model for premium content.
 

ethomaz

Banned
And Netflix isn't? They are spending 14 billion in 2020 on new original content. Compared to say Disney with 2 billion.
And they keep eating big loses... let’s see for how longer.


People still bought Zelda BOTW at a full price even after nearly 3 years on the market.
Because it is that good, so? That is exactly the type of title you won’t see on Gamepass because it forces you to release cheap game as service games to profit.
 
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darkinstinct

...lacks reading comprehension.
And they keep eating big loses... let’s see for how longer.

People told me the same joke when I told them to invest in Amazon ten years ago. They aren't laughing anymore. There's a difference between making losses because you invest all your profit and then some - and just making losses.
 

ethomaz

Banned
People told me the same joke when I told them to invest in Amazon ten years ago. They aren't laughing anymore. There's a difference between making losses because you invest all your profit and then some - and just making losses.
What that even suppose to mean?

Amazon sells retail product via online store... what is wrong with that? lol
 
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NickFire

Member
1. Just say no then. No one can force a dev or pub to put a game on game pass.

2. Since this thread started, have any pubs announced their own version of game pass? We already have EA access, so???
 

mcjmetroid

Member
You're the one with hard understanding here. I talking about the side effect of implement 'consumer friendly' methods to push devs in other ways of earn money.
Ok now we're onto something. Yes they may have to come up with another system besides lootboxes and they will assuming we ever go FULL 'gamepass' with all systems with no choice.

I think we're ok as long as there is a choice between buying full price and a service. That means if they ever go too far with the service than customer will revert back to the once off system.

But the way things are at the moment with certain full price games, they're ripping people off as much as free mobile titles so I say fuck buying these games at full price and
let's see what shenanigans they come up with in the future.

In other words, bring it on.
 
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Saber

Gold Member
in relation to what? I'm not following you here.

Lootboxes were born because companies kept seeing how much they could get away with micro-transactions and that's where we ended up. The profits became way too much for shareholders so there's almost no turning back.

I think lootboxes exists because with time they have to develop more schemes to cover up for hard work, while lessing the costs. I think its a reasonable questionament and do fit here in the thread. Lootboxes were a reflex of some companies "adapting" since what worked long ago isn't working anyomre(in terms of bad practices).

But what does this have with services? Well, if lootboxes affected the quality of some games why wouldn't this affect the quality of games as well? The adapt phase work here I think because once they get with with only using games as services, more predactory business practices will arise.

But again, its my opinion. I'm not fufure visioner like some people claims to be.
 
You've literally contradicted yourself.

So much for wanting what's best for consumers but then stanning for greedy Nintendo still selling 3 year old games at full price.
Because we have options.

I don't think Nintendo is part of the greedy worrying companies though since their games are top tier and consumers loved it.
 

mcjmetroid

Member
I think lootboxes exists because with time they have to develop more schemes to cover up for hard work, while lessing the costs. I think its a reasonable questionament and do fit here in the thread. Lootboxes were a reflex of some companies "adapting" since what worked long ago isn't working anyomre(in terms of bad practices).

There was never any reason for lootboxes to exist other than literally greed. Publishers were making plenty of money from games without it. It's all about seeing how far you can take it.
Lootboxes were created from the free to play mobile games design, they thought they would shove it into full price games slowly.

I believe if we're going to continue down that road then we might as well NOT be buying their games full price.
 

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
"What happened with the other industries is big checks were written for a while until the platforms didn't need the content creators anymore," one game publishing executive, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of active relationships with gaming platforms, told Business Insider. "This check might feel good now, but it might not feel so good in five years."

This is completely backwards... the content creators started demanding more money, or pulling their content off of services like Netflix to create their own.. Netflix making their own content was a response to this.

And by a lot of measures, Netflix is likely to fail because of this... they can't compete. Netflix costs went WAY up when they started creating their own content.. really this quote is just so wrong lol.. likely just an outright lie, as I doubt any gaming exec doesn't know the real story behind Netflix.
 
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Saber

Gold Member
I believe if we're going to continue down that road then we might as well NOT be buying their games full price.

Thats exactly the point. They would not have to care about you and me "buying full prices" if they sell their games as services. And moving their goals to services would make(if not making) a trend, pushing the market towards services. Big ass games couldn't deal with this and would have to adapt in order to have a slice. But the bad part is that once the game market is all about services, other bad practices will arise in conjuction with them.
 
There are times when I'm really glad Nintendo is 8 years behind every other company. This is by far one of those times.
Nintendo is the most vocal when talking about preserving game value.

Other companies just wanted to make a quick buck right after the released by cutting the price aggressively and punishing the early adopters who paid a full price for the product. That's how the publisher depreciate games value.

It's kinda ironic to see those publisher are worrying about gamepass and accusing that service will lower the value of video games.
 
"Guys, consumers getting games for cheaper! Oh no! Think of the companies! Think of the sales that have gone +50% digital but the companies have kept new games at $60 a pop this entire generation! Think of the shareholders! They won't be able to make games anymore!"
 
D

Deleted member 740922

Unconfirmed Member
But Sony already got DESTROYED on Ps2 gen, because MS has infinite money.....

Then she got DESTROYED again, cause the ps3 was too expensive and the blu ray was a piece of shit. The MS format was the best, hddvd or something...

Also she just got DESTROYED for the third time, since Kinect + always on + TV powaaa.

Yeah... every single beginning of gen... same old shit.

"She"? Wow...
 

Vawn

Banned
Only the companies that spends tens or hundreds of millions to make amazing AAA games.

If GamePass-like subscription services take over, those will end, for cheaper "good enough" games. You don't have to get people to buy them, just he good enough to settle for included with their monthly fees.

This is great for AA or low quality studios. Horrible for the high quality, expensive game developers.
 

Vawn

Banned
"Guys, consumers getting games for cheaper! Oh no! Think of the companies! Think of the sales that have gone +50% digital but the companies have kept new games at $60 a pop this entire generation! Think of the shareholders! They won't be able to make games anymore!"

Because it is completely logical to expect developers to make a fraction of what they make now and still spend as much money and resources?

Where did you go to business school?
 

DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
In a world where digital distribution is easier and cheaper than ever before, why have physical books made a comeback? Vinyl records, a medium that is nearly 100 years old, made a comeback too. Sale of physical music surpassed the digital-download industry by 200 million in 2017.

Why are boutique videogame publishers popping up everywhere, selling $2-10 digital games as a premium $30+ product? It used to just be Limited Run Games, now it's Play-Asia, iam8bit, Strictly Limited, Super Rare, First Press, etc etc

Could it be perhaps that there is both a profit and a loyal market that wishes to purchase these things?

Folks who are excited about the Game Pass future are misreading the market and the data is plainly available for anyone who cares to look.
 

DaMonsta

Member
“Executives at major video game studios “

Is a cop out to me. Put your name on it or it ain’t real.

It’s not like this is NDA info or something.

The anonymity makes me call BS on this article. Seems the writer just wanted clicks.
 

DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
“Executives at major video game studios “

Is a cop out to me. Put your name on it or it ain’t real.

It’s not like this is NDA info or something.

The anonymity makes me call BS on this article. Seems the writer just wanted clicks.
How is it any less genuine than "Developer who was directly funded by new subscription program speaks out and says it's totally great for developers"?
 
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