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[SpaceDrake]

So Bioware games have become so dating-sim-ish that they're now having to struggle with the same demographic questions that VNs in Japan have been going back and forth on for over a decade.

I am basically shoveling popcorn into my mouth as fast as possible because this is completely fascinating to watch. How long 'till we start getting yuri-focused Bioware games, I wonder?

How very interesting indeed.

 

[sleepykyo]

I'm a straight male and I ended up romancing with Anders instead of Isabella or Merill, because they were both horribly designed characters with absolutely dreadful personalities.

I never finished playing Origins. But I was about one of sessions away from trying to mount Alistair, seeing as he is fairly agreeable, while anything and everything pisses off Morrigan.

edit: Haven't played DA2. But I just thought of something since the females are bisexual now, isn't DA2 almost ridiculously targeted toward the straight male gamer? In mass effect, if you chose a female Shepard, you don't get to romance females. Now you can get the choice of guy on girl or girl on girl.

 

[Aeana]

To be honest, why not just give an option in character creation for sexuality?

I don't find it offensive, necessarily, but I find it kind of ridiculous. Heterosexuals are the vast majority. A player shouldn't walk into a brothel and find more male strippers than female strippers, nor should a player only be given the option to romantically dance with a person when choosing to interact (ala Fable 3).

It's just honestly disappointing. They try to make the game so PC that it comes off as unbelievable and offputting.

Neither of those things happen in Dragon Age 2. Much like real life, you cannot control who makes advances toward you. I don't see what the big deal is at all. People clamor for realism and immersion, but I guess it doesn't apply to anything that might make someone even somewhat uncomfortable.

I had a flirty option with him.

Yes, me too, which resulted in the comment about his crossbow Bianca, I do believe.

 

[Confidence Man]

Hmm... Wrong, but... hmm...

They can only ignore the pro-incest gamer for so long.

 

[Femmeworth]

So Bioware games have become so dating-sim-ish that they're now having to struggle with the same demographic questions that VNs in Japan have been going back and forth on for over a decade.

I am basically shoveling popcorn into my mouth as fast as possible because this is completely fascinating to watch. How long 'till we start getting yuri-focused Bioware games, I wonder?

How very interesting indeed.

After playing Mass Effect, do not want.

 

[Alucrid]

To be honest, why not just give an option in character creation for sexuality?

I don't find it offensive, necessarily, but I find it kind of ridiculous. Heterosexuals are the vast majority. A player shouldn't walk into a brothel and find more male strippers than female strippers, nor should a player only be given the option to romantically dance with a person when choosing to interact (ala Fable 3).

It's just honestly disappointing. They try to make the game so PC that it comes off as unbelievable and offputting.

OH NO! Not virtual male strippers, MY EYES MY HETEROSEXUAL VIRGIN EYES.

So Bioware games have become so dating-sim-ish that they're now having to struggle with the same demographic questions that VNs in Japan have been going back and forth on for over a decade.

I am basically shoveling popcorn into my mouth as fast as possible because this is completely fascinating to watch. How long 'till we start getting yuri-focused Bioware games, I wonder?

How very interesting indeed.

Yuri? Do I want to see an explanation of this?

 

[LiK]

They can only ignore the pro-incest gamer for so long.

100% freedom. A true RPG

 

[Data West]

It bothers me that everyone in that game is gay.

Just like it would bother me if everyone was straight. Atleast in ME2 you had the excuse of, 'well they may be gay but they're not interested in me'. In Dragon Age 2 EVERYONE is bio and EVERYONE wants you to fuck them

Like that's fine for someone like Zevran's character in Origins, but the horndog trait doesn't fit anyone else except maybe Isabella.

 

[mollipen]

I am basically shoveling popcorn into my mouth as fast as possible because this is completely fascinating to watch. How long 'till we start getting yuri-focused Bioware games, I wonder?

Nevermind that, I just want BioWare to stop being so wishy-washy about including better balance in Mass Effect.

Anyhow, read this story earlier, and man did it make me laugh and laugh. Poor, poor straight male gamer. How terrible it must feel now that every game isn't revolving around you!

It bothers me that everyone in that game is gay.

Just like it would bother me if everyone was straight. Atleast in ME2 you had the excuse of, 'well they may be gay but they're not interested in me'. In Dragon Age 2 EVERYONE is bio and EVERYONE wants you to fuck them

I can't speak from experience with Dragon Age, but yeah, this is where I'd really start to be bothered. I mean, on one hand, it IS kind of nice if a game gives the player direct choice in who they want to romance. I totally wanted my MC in Persona 4 to mount Ai Ebihara, but NOOOO! (That was a different type of situation, but still.)

On the other hand, I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the "make every character bi" option either. Seems so cheap and pandering.

 

[firehawk12]

Neither of those things happen in Dragon Age 2. Much like real life, you cannot control who makes advances toward you. I don't see what the big deal is at all. People clamor for realism and immersion, but I guess it doesn't apply to anything that might make someone even somewhat uncomfortable.

It's lazy that everyone in DA2 is bisexual though. They can't win either way, really.

Nevermind that, I just want BioWare to stop being so wishy-washy about including better balance in Mass Effect.

Anyhow, read this story earlier, and man did it make me laugh and laugh. Poor, poor straight male gamer. How terrible it must feel now that every game isn't revolving around you!

To be fair, there's no sexuality in the dudebro games. As far as I know, Master Chief spends all his free time with a sock and a free hand.

 

[D2M15]

I am basically shoveling popcorn into my mouth as fast as possible because this is completely fascinating to watch. How long 'till we start getting yuri-focused Bioware games, I wonder?

I'm confident that BioWare gameplay will eventually be streamlined into running down a tunnel punctuated by sex scenes.

 

[subversus]

Yes, me too, which resulted in the comment about his crossbow Bianca, I do believe.

Bioware should make an option to romance weapons from now on.

 

[Suairyu]

It's lazy that everyone in DA2 is bisexual though. They can't win either way, really.

If this is true, it sucks hard. Sexual-orientation-blind writing is just as dangerous as colour-blind casting in my mind.

edit - lol@using the term 'yuri'

 

[Haeleos]

His thesis is backed entirely on assumptions, ad hominem and anecdotal evidence. Arguing against this kind of person would be like yelling at a coffee table.

 

[SpaceDrake]

Yuri? Do I want to see an explanation of this?

"Girl on girl is hot" would be the gist of it.

 

[Data West]

Bioware should make an option to romance weapons from now on.

It's the only option I'd accept for my Dwarven Warden.

Never got why my companions were so obsessed with boning. I felt like Sten and I were the only people concerned about this whole 'Archdemon' thing.

 

[MGrant]

Who the hell wrote this article? What a pile of garbage.

His opinion is incomprehensible. Among other things, the presence of a romance with a "strong woman" appeals to lesbians and not straight men? Sounds like someone is projecting some very personal tastes for more submissive partners onto a whole demographic.

 

[LiK]

It's lazy that everyone in DA2 is bisexual though. They can't win either way, really.

QFT. seriously.

 

[Littlegator]

OH NO! Not virtual male strippers, MY EYES MY HETEROSEXUAL VIRGIN EYES.

So you read the post only until you found the first thing you could form a pseudo-argument on, and typed in all caps so you looked correct?

Honestly, read the post.

 

[Aeana]

It's lazy that everyone in DA2 is bisexual though. They can't win either way, really.

I don't know about lazy so much as trying to cater to both women and gay men. In Origins, gay men wanted desperately to romance Alistair, so this was their solution. I think it's fine. It's a fantasy game after all.

 

[Alucrid]

"Girl on girl is hot" would be the gist of it.

Oh. I thought that was guy on guy.

So you read the post only until you found the first thing you could form a pseudo-argument on, and typed in all caps so you looked correct?

Honestly, read the post.

No. I just think you're more likely to find male and female prostitutes in a brothel. But still, so long as the brothel isn't all male or all female, what's the problem? Clearly having both male and female prostitutes is a better idea from a business perspective since it would double the number of readily available consumers. Choosing your sexuality seems inane.

 

[PaddyOCanager]

Straight male.

The only problem I had with it was getting +15 rivalry with Anders because I had to turn him down. I didn't even choose a single "love" option.

 

[Zomba13]

Anders is gay? Was he Gay in Awakening?

 

[Interfectum]

The biggest problem I have is that Bioware is trying to lead the charge with this stuff. I'm sorry but I don't think their writing is near mature enough to handle pulling off a true heterosexual relationship, let alone a homosexual one.

 

[Omegasquash]

Christssake, this isn't them neglecting their "main" audience. It's them not pandering to the stereotypical demographic (even if that demographic is the bulk of the audience).

And I'm pretty sure that they don't give a shit, which is cool with me. The problem with DA2, as I understand it, isn't the romance.

 

[Himajin]

I couldn't care less about any of the romantic options in Bioware games. They are all handled awkwardly and serve only to break the immersion. Blood spatters and unrealistic sexual encounters is not why I like to play roleplaying games, and I hope I'm still in the majority with that...

 

[GhaleonQ]

Nevermind that, I just want BioWare to stop being so wishy-washy about including better balance in Mass Effect.

Anyhow, read this story earlier, and man did it make me laugh and laugh. Poor, poor straight male gamer. How terrible it must feel now that every game isn't revolving around you!

As a religious gamer, I feel aggrieved by the ability to have cosmo-sex outside of space-marriage at all.

Strider Hiryu didn't take breaks from futurecommunist killing to bed Ton Pooh.

 

[MattKeil]

i wonder if he thinks the real world should have a no homosexuality option.

Seems a pretty safe bet if an integral part of his preferred fantasy world is a guarantee that nobody in it will be gay.

The backlash against the bisexuality in DA2 is rather amazing to me. I honestly would never have given any of the homosexual innuendo in the game a second thought if not for the people bitching to high heaven about it. Someone should tell these guys that when even fictional characters hitting on you makes you uncomfortable, it might be time to re-examine yourself a bit.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Is forum drama seriously being reported as news now?

 

[Buckethead]

Well with all the offensive hetero pandering in Mass Effect 2, I'm pretty psyched to get some gay stuff.

Balances it out.

Also "source" lol.

 

[Suairyu]

I don't know about lazy so much as trying to cater to both women and gay men. In Origins, gay men wanted desperately to romance Alistair, so this was their solution. I think it's fine. It's a fantasy game after all.

No, it's lazy. It's ignoring the realities of human sexuality just to provide an easy way out. "Fantasy game" isn't an excuse because fantasy fiction (the good stuff, anyway) has to adhere to internal logic. In storytelling, there is no logic more necessary than humans (or human-like characters) acting true to humanity. Having everyone as a will-swing-either-way nymph is not a mature or intelligent exploration of human sexuality.

Is forum drama seriously being reported as news now?

GAF isn't a news feed, nor does it report.

 

[firehawk12]

QFT. seriously.

Even when gay gamers win, they still lose.

I don't know about lazy so much as trying to cater to both women and gay men. In Origins, gay men wanted desperately to romance Alistair, so this was their solution. I think it's fine. It's a fantasy game after all.

I've read that Sebastion is straight only though?

And that's like saying it's okay for everyone in DA2 to be white, because it's easier than creating different racial character models for the Hawke family and the elves and dwarves.

By making everyone bi, they absolve themselves the responsibility of actually trying to write for a gay or lesbian audience.

 

[theRizzle]

I am a straight male. I love women. I am engaged to one. I looooooooooooove tits. I try to get my hands on (legally) as many sets of beautiful breasts as possible. I have the capacity to find female video game characters "attractive". Not in a 'I am going to have an erotic Bloodrayne wallpaper and think dirty thoughts every time I boot my PC' kind of way, but in a 'Yeah, Trip from Enslaved is probably the sexiest female video game character I have seen, but it doesn't mean she is my dream woman or anything' kind of way. Video game girls with enormous boobs or otherwise exaggerated proportions don't bother or offend me. Video game guys with massive muscles and baseball bat sized penises (lets be honest, we all know it's there but nobody wants to be the one to say it) don't bother me.

That said, the first time I played through DA:O, I played a Male Elf Mage and my first romance was with Zevran. I didn't even think for a second that it was weird or creepy that I was having a gay romance with another male in a game. It just ended up being the most logical path for my character to take given the way my game played out, and I took it.

I think a lot of people take stuff like this way too seriously. IT IS A GAME. If you are a straight male and actually get real, uncomfortable feelings from getting hit on by a gay character in a game, your life is probably going to be very difficult. I can't believe there are still people like this out there in 2011. smh

 

[D2M15]

Someone should tell these guys that when even fictional characters hitting on you makes you uncomfortable, it might be time to re-examine yourself a bit.

Most people's - original forum poster notwithstanding - problems are with the crassness of the delivery, rather than its existence. Although as has already been pointed out, BioWare romantic storylines in general are neither romantic or particularly good stories, so heterosexuals don't get it much better.

 

[Xapati]

Bioware's romances are so terribly done that I don't even care for which audience they write for. Their romances are little more then a three step quest:

1. Make flirty Comment
2. Say yes in a romantic scene
3. Fuck

That's it. What's sad is that Bioware seems to think that if you have sex in a game you also have a romance. What's even sadder is that they are the only company out there that even attempts to write anything involving romance.

 

[davepoobond]

well. i've never played the game, but it sounds like they tried too hard to "include" all these different options into whatever this romance thing is.

what's even the purpose of doing it? do you get more special abilities or something?



and where are the trisexuals????

 

[Data West]

Anders is gay? Was he Gay in Awakening?

There was no romantic options in Awakening.

Otherwise Sigrun and I would've done the dwarven paragon plunge if you know what I am saying

 

[Interfectum]

Bioware's romances are so terribly done that I don't even care. Their romances are little more then a three step quest:

1. Make flirty Comment
2. Say yes in a romantic scene
3. Fuck

That's it. What's sad is that Bioware seems to think that if you have sex in a game you also have a romance. What's even sadder is that they are the only company out there that even attempts to write anything involving romance.

Nailed it.

 

[The Technomancer]

He isn't a love interest for anyone. David Gaider apparently didn't want human/dwarf romance, so they made him "in love" with his crossbow instead. Although he and Isabela do have some suggestive party banter.

...wat?

 

[Suairyu]

well. i've never played the game, but it sounds like they tried too hard to "include" all these different options into whatever this romance thing is.

what's even the purpose of doing it? do you get more special abilities or something?

Black magic for hetero men, white magic for hetero women, colour magic for all the gays!

 

[GhaleonQ]

What's sad is that Bioware seems to think that if you have sex in a game you also have a romance.

There's something profound about modern video games, generally, in there.

 

[Data West]

What's even sadder is that they are the only company out there that even attempts to write anything involving romance.

Nate and Elena have been in TWO games and have only touched first base

Black magic for hetero men, white magic for hetero women, colour magic for all the gays!

Speaking of...

Forget the odd orientation questions. Why the hell can't you make a black character in Dragon Age?

 

[firehawk12]

Bioware's romances are so terribly done that I don't even care for which audience they write for. Their romances are little more then a three step quest:

1. Make flirty Comment
2. Say yes in a romantic scene
3. Fuck

That's it. What's sad is that Bioware seems to think that if you have sex in a game you also have a romance. What's even sadder is that they are the only company out there that even attempts to write anything involving romance.

Well, not counting Japanese games anyway.

And let's face it, in video game time, it's like a few days between when you meet a party member and fuck them. These aren't anything resembling real relationships.

 

[Alucrid]

Bioware's romances are so terribly done that I don't even care for which audience they write for. Their romances are little more then a three step quest:

1. Make flirty Comment
2. Say yes in a romantic scene
3. Fuck

That's it. What's sad is that Bioware seems to think that if you have sex in a game you also have a romance. What's even sadder is that they are the only company out there that even attempts to write anything involving romance.

Kinda like their entire conversation system.

I think a lot of people take stuff like this way too seriously. IT IS A GAME. If you are a straight male and actually get real, uncomfortable feelings from getting hit on by a gay character in a game, your life is probably going to be very difficult. I can't believe there are still people like this out there in 2011. smh

Yep. I'm guessing he popped a boner or something.

No, it's lazy. It's ignoring the realities of human sexuality just to provide an easy way out. "Fantasy game" isn't an excuse because fantasy fiction (the good stuff, anyway) has to adhere to internal logic. In storytelling, there is no logic more necessary than humans (or human-like characters) acting true to humanity. Having everyone as a will-swing-either-way nymph is not a mature or intelligent exploration of human sexuality.
GAF isn't a news feed, nor does it report.

I hope you don't expect to find them here.

 

[Lone_Prodigy]

Male Shepard could romance Tali in Mass Effect 2. If that's not catering to your fanbase then I don't know what is.

I haven't played DA2 but it seems like Merrill is Tali. Maybe Isabela doesn't have the same appeal as Morrigan/Ashley/Miranda for male protagonists?

 

[TheSeks]

o I wanted to ask straight and gay people.

1)Straight people: does including a gay romance option in a very obvious way (like it was done in DA2) bother you? Do you feel awkward or offended if a gay character in the game tries to hit on you?
2)Gay people: do you use such options in Bioware (and other) games and the most important - are they actually well done?

1) It shouldn't, but BAWWWW I'M BEING HIT ON BY A GUY! MY MASCULINITY! Shit, some people on GAF are offended by My Little Pony (notable: Jenga) so I'm not surprised like asses like the quoted OP are alive.
2) No, not really. Mostly because a) Most of the romance options are ham-fisted in typical Bioware fashion and b) No Wrex sex option in Mass Effect 1. FUCK YOU BIOWARE FOR THAT.

 

[jkanownik]

I swear I thought that Elf in the Blooming Rose was a chick, but I'm comfortable enough in my our sexuality that I don't care if you believe me or not.

 

[Takamura-San]

To be honest, why not just give an option in character creation for sexuality?

This made me lol so hard.

How does that stop ppl from hitting on you. No matter how straight a person may be, that doesn't change how forward the other people are.

Unless people walk with a sandwich board saying "no homo".

Edit:

I'm more concerned about Merrill being jailbait.

 

[LiK]

Male Shepard could romance Tali in Mass Effect 2. If that's not catering to your fanbase then I don't know what is.

I haven't played DA2 but it seems like Merrill is Tali. Maybe Isabela doesn't have the same appeal as Morrigan/Ashley/Miranda for male protagonists?

I love Isabela.

 

[Suairyu]

What's sad is that Bioware seems to think that if you have sex in a game you also have a romance.

Truth. Had towards the end of Mass Effect, at the point the romance normally culminates, one of your crew simply came up to you (who you had developed a strong friendship with) and had sex before the big, dangerous mission it would have been sincerely brilliant character storytelling and development.