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[Zakalwe]

It's too bad. I was excited to see the movie, but decided against it after reading about it.

Unfortunately, I'm not a fan of supporting by buying tickets a movie that is obviously male gaze AND chock full of Orientalism.

I'll watch it when it becomes available on Netflix.

It's not either of those things, though. Well, after reading that article perhaps the Orientalism, but I think the male gaze stuff is off the mark considering how it's actually handled.

I'd forget other people's opinions and go see it for yourself, but that's just my opinion.

 

[Einchy]

It's too bad. I was excited to see the movie, but decided against it after reading about it.

Unfortunately, I'm not a fan of supporting by buying tickets a movie that is obviously male gaze AND chock full of Orientalism.

I'll watch it when it becomes available on Netflix.

Man, you read those shitty Vice "articles"? They were the definition of missing the point.

 

[SexyFish]

It's too bad. I was excited to see the movie, but decided against it after reading about it.

Unfortunately, I'm not a fan of supporting by buying tickets a movie that is obviously male gaze AND chock full of Orientalism.

I'll watch it when it becomes available on Netflix.

Yikes.

This is the worst hot take.

 

[mlclmtckr]

It's too bad. I was excited to see the movie, but decided against it after reading about it.

Unfortunately, I'm not a fan of supporting by buying tickets a movie that is obviously male gaze AND chock full of Orientalism.

I'll watch it when it becomes available on Netflix.

It certainly wrestles with the concept of the male gaze but it isn't, like, a Transformers movie.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

It's too bad. I was excited to see the movie, but decided against it after reading about it.

Unfortunately, I'm not a fan of supporting by buying tickets a movie that is obviously male gaze AND chock full of Orientalism.

I'll watch it when it becomes available on Netflix.

Criticizes societies were such things happen, it doesn't praise them.

 

[Zakalwe]

It certainly wrestles with the concept of the male gaze but it isn't, like, a Transformers movie.

Of course there are conversations to have about Hollywood in general, and even films like 2049 could stand to take note, but the film justifies the decisions it makes well enough, imo.

 

[Nev]

Unfortunately, I'm not a fan of supporting by buying tickets a movie that is obviously male gaze AND chock full of Orientalism.

What the hell is there in the movie that can be remotely associated with Orientalism for it to be considered "chock full" of it?

I'm genuinely curious. Is it the Wallace corp theme/aesthetic or what?

 

[JCHandsom]

It's too bad. I was excited to see the movie, but decided against it after reading about it.

Unfortunately, I'm not a fan of supporting by buying tickets a movie that is obviously male gaze AND chock full of Orientalism.

I'll watch it when it becomes available on Netflix.

"It's not what a movie is about, it's how it is about it."

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

It's too bad. I was excited to see the movie, but decided against it after reading about it.

Unfortunately, I'm not a fan of supporting by buying tickets a movie that is obviously male gaze AND chock full of Orientalism.

I'll watch it when it becomes available on Netflix.

Your not wrong. I don't think 2049 is severely offensive but it's another one of those movies that places minorities in the background.

 

[Opto]

While I think there's a discussion to be had about the male gaze parts of the film, it's kinda messed up the original 80's flick had more asian people than the current one. I can't think of a single even mildly significant character that looked like they were from the population that made japanese a primary language

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

What the hell is there in the movie that can be remotely associated with Orientalism for it to be considered "chock full" of it?

I'm genuinely curious. Is it the Wallace corp theme/aesthetic or what?

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/...-asians-blade-runner?utm_campaign=sharebutton

This article does a better job describing it than me. It is something that I've slowly noticed. A lot of cyberpunk stuff is surprisingly not that diverse.

 

[Zakalwe]

Edit: nevermind, wrong article.

 

[Cheebo]

Bad trailer and bad director (imo).

How the hell is Villeneuve a bad director?

Prisoners, Sicario, Arrival, really?!

 

[Bobo Dakes]

"It's not what a movie is about, it's how it is about it."

"It didn't bother me so it shouldn't bother you."

 

[RS4-]

How the hell is Villeneuve a bad director?

Prisoners, Sicario, Arrival, really?!

they didn't make 500m

 

[Zakalwe]

"It didn't bother me so it shouldn't bother you."

This is fair. I just read the article ElBoxyBrown posted and it makes very valid points.

It's a shame because it does detract from the beauty of the film.

 

[kirblar]

It's too bad. I was excited to see the movie, but decided against it after reading about it.

Unfortunately, I'm not a fan of supporting by buying tickets a movie that is obviously male gaze AND chock full of Orientalism.

I'll watch it when it becomes available on Netflix.

The first part is very unfair given what they're doing with the movie. The latter isn't.

 

[diaspora]

I think this is a masterful film and one of the best I've ever witnessed. It's also... oddly racially homogeneous considering the context of the first film. I'm not knocking it for a lack of diversity for the sake of diversity but rather a lack of variety.

 

[Nev]

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/...-asians-blade-runner?utm_campaign=sharebutton

This article does a better job describing it than me. It is something that I've slowly noticed. A lot of cyberpunk stuff is surprisingly not that diverse.

Ah, ok. I thought it was about Arab Orientalism.

I see their point. Then again it's sad that this gets a pass but Ghost in the Shell got an outrage/boycott its way because of ScarJo as the major despite having a predominant japanese culture/language acknowledgement/representation as part of the main plot and even has Takeshi Kitano outright talking in japanese for the entire movie.

It's basically the most respectful cyberpunk/anime Hollywood adaptation that has been made. But hey, Scarlett Johansson can't play a white-looking robot who looked like a white-looking robot in the source material so let's automatically throw everything they did to respect the original work and the culture it came from out the window.

How the hell is Villeneuve a bad director?

Prisoners, Sicario, Arrival, really?!

Arrival is supposed to be a great movie or something? Was eh at best for me with one of the most stupid twists ever.

Spoiler

She decided her daughter had to die of horrible pain caused by cancer, what a hero.

 

[diaspora]

Ah, ok. I thought it was about Arab Orientalism.

I see their point. Then again it's sad that this gets a pass but Ghost in the Shell got an outrage/boycott its way because of ScarJo as the major despite having a predominant japanese culture/language acknowledgement/representation as part of the main plot and even has Takeshi Kitano outright talking in japanese for the entire movie.

It's basically the most respectful cyberpunk/anime Hollywood adaptation that has been made. But hey, Scarlett Johansson can't play a white-looking robot who looked like a white-looking robot in the source material so let's automatically throw everything they did to respect the original work and the culture it came from out the window.

GITS was far worse. Taking an Japanese character in Japan and converting it to a white character in Japan with the actual Japanese just being background was asinine.

 

[jtb]

The lack of diversity is disappointing and puzzling... a missed opportunity more than anything, imo. The people left on Earth are the under classes, no? And the whole franchise is about.... a class of "people" resigned to be slaves.... [thinking emoji]. Certainly some interesting thematic material to be mined there, if they had chosen to.

 

[UrbanRats]

Ah, ok. I thought it was about Arab Orientalism.

I see their point. Then again it's sad that this gets a pass but Ghost in the Shell got an outrage/boycott its way because of ScarJo as the major despite having a predominant japanese culture/language acknowledgement/representation as part of the main plot and even has Takeshi Kitano outright talking in japanese for the entire movie.

It's basically the most respectful cyberpunk/anime Hollywood adaptation that has been made. But hey, Scarlett Johansson can't play a white-looking robot who looked like a white-looking robot in the source material so let's automatically throw everything they did to respect the original work and the culture it came from out the window.

GitS was a piece of shit.
I'm sure if it was as good as this movie is, a lot of people would've been softer on it.

Also, most of the backlash came from the source material being a Japanese manga/anime set in Hong Kong&Japan mostly, so it came with stronger expectations.

GITS was far worse. Taking an Japanese character in Japan and converting it to a white character in Japan with the actual Japanese just being background was asinine.

People were upset before that was revealed.

 

[Nev]

GITS was far worse. Taking an Japanese character in Japan and converting it to a white character in Japan with the actual Japanese just being background was asinine.

They didn't convert it to a white character, Motoko/Mira is Japanese in the live action adaptation. Scarlet Johansson plays a robot, a shell.

That you and many others decided to ignore everything else the movie does to respect the source material and the Japanese culture just because they decided to cast a big western name (who happens to look a lot like the character from the source material) for a niche adaptation is a different matter.

That you see that as "worse" than a movie set in a cyberpunk Los Angeles in 2050 having 2-3 non-white characters and not a single one being a main character is also another matter I don't agree with at all.

Off the top of my head I can only remember the black guy

Spoiler

who analyzes the horse carving

,

Spoiler

the black guy who runs the child warehouse thing

and the black chick hooker who has literally a line of non-consequential dialogue before fading away forever.

They're all side characters at the absolute best, more glorified background characters than anything.

I can't even recall a single asian character.

 

[Rydeen]

I know it's anecdotal, but I saw the film again last night at 7:30 PM in a normal, non-IMAX/no 3D screening, and the top half of the theater was completely full, only reason I assume the bottom half of the theater wasn't was because people didn't want to be too close to the screen.

Audience was definitely into it, just a mild cough every once in a while, not a lot of chatting or noise or anything. After the first week crowd, I have hope that through word of mouth, the film is finding it's audience. It may not be a huge box office success, but I think it will be mildly successful in it's theatrical run, and will be an "evergreen" title on streaming and blu-ray / 4K UHD for decades to come like the original film is.

 

[diaspora]

They didn't convert it to a white character, Motoko/Mira is Japanese in the live action adaptation. Scarlet Johansson plays a robot, a shell.

That you and many others decided to ignore everything else the movie does to respect the source material and the Japanese culture just because they decided to cast a big western name (who happens to look a lot like the character from the source material) for a niche adaptation is a different matter.

That you see that as "worse" than a movie set in a cyberpunk Los Angeles in 2050 having 2-3 non-white characters and not a single one being a main character is also another matter I don't agree with at all.

I know, and I'm saying it makes it fucking worse, let alone compared to Blade Runner 2049 which ended up being with a white cast with a mostly white setting.

 

[kirblar]

The lack of diversity is disappointing and puzzling... a missed opportunity more than anything, imo. The people left on Earth are the under classes, no? And the whole franchise is about.... a class of "people" resigned to be slaves.... [thinking emoji]. Certainly some interesting thematic material to be mined there, if they had chosen to.

I would say it's very much not an accident that in robot-themed slavery analogues the robots tend to be white.

 

[Creamium]

edit: wrong thread

 

[Real Hero]

It's too bad. I was excited to see the movie, but decided against it after reading about it.

Unfortunately, I'm not a fan of supporting by buying tickets a movie that is obviously male gaze AND chock full of Orientalism.

I'll watch it when it becomes available on Netflix.

This is dumb, how do you know you agree with something you have read if you haven't seen the thing they are talking about?

 

[Zakalwe]

EDIT: wrong thread, eep.

 

[tauroxd]

It's too bad. I was excited to see the movie, but decided against it after reading about it.

Unfortunately, I'm not a fan of supporting by buying tickets a movie that is obviously male gaze AND chock full of Orientalism.

I'll watch it when it becomes available on Netflix.

Give it a chance. It is an incredible, beautiful and amazing audiovisual experience and watching it on the big screen and listeing with those speakers will make you feel so much joy.

 

[Dice//]

It's too bad. I was excited to see the movie, but decided against it after reading about it.

Unfortunately, I'm not a fan of supporting by buying tickets a movie that is obviously male gaze AND chock full of Orientalism.

I'll watch it when it becomes available on Netflix.

The male gaze is ...sorta clever though and kind of the point.
It's sort of uses it ironically, crudely, and in both good and bad views to illustrate just how versatile we use women --- for better OR worse. Society sexualizes, uses, and abuses the real or even imagined woman in advertisements or in their biology or in their grace or attractiveness, sometimes it IS over the top, but doing so only exemplifies the point harder that women's image is often overused and over-commodified.

It's not gonna win the "Alison Bechdel's Film Feminist Award to Good Representation", but I admire the film's versatile use of women and it's understanding of their various roles and nuances (some as strong leaders, some as mothers, some as lovers, some as commodities).

Blade Runner's world is an exaggeration of this world, this so too does it saturate the way women are seen.

The lack of diversity is disappointing and puzzling... a missed opportunity more than anything, imo. The people left on Earth are the under classes, no? And the whole franchise is about.... a class of "people" resigned to be slaves.... [thinking emoji]. Certainly some interesting thematic material to be mined there, if they had chosen to.

They were there just sadly relegated to the shorts or other small roles. Joi is sorta Cuban (well her actress is if that counts for a 'minority point'), and K is the lead (i.e.; presumed white -- read into that what you will)), and nothing really changes Harrison Ford's role in this. It was a pretty small cast though. Shame they couldn't cast a minority for Luv, Mariette, or Wallace's role because it would have been a great opportunity to do so....

I DO think the movie was well cast despite that, but yeah it is a shame, especially with a film that has a sort of 'emancipation' theme running through it . :/

 

[Rixxan]

It's too bad. I was excited to see the movie, but decided against it after reading about it.

Unfortunately, I'm not a fan of supporting by buying tickets a movie that is obviously male gaze AND chock full of Orientalism.

I'll watch it when it becomes available on Netflix.

Outrage culture was a mistake

 

[jett]

It's too bad. I was excited to see the movie, but decided against it after reading about it.

Unfortunately, I'm not a fan of supporting by buying tickets a movie that is obviously male gaze AND chock full of Orientalism.

I'll watch it when it becomes available on Netflix.

What?

lol

 

[Curious Puppy]

It's too bad. I was excited to see the movie, but decided against it after reading about it.

Unfortunately, I'm not a fan of supporting by buying tickets a movie that is obviously male gaze AND chock full of Orientalism.

I'll watch it when it becomes available on Netflix.

So you don’t know anything about the movie.

 

[Vault Dweller 111]

Outrage culture was a mistake

I try to be as inclusive and progressive as possible but it definitely gets tiring when people seem to analyze every new thing with the intent of getting outraged. If it's obvious and blatant then it deserves mention, but something like Blade Runner? C'mon. Not every movie has to look like The Force Awakens, and just because they don't doesn't mean that there is malicious intent.

When people complained about Horizon, the most diverse video game I've ever played, I realized that there was no pleasing some people. And that this is just a side effect of becoming more inclusive and progressive as a society (which is worth it, obviously)

 

[Ctlead]

It's too bad. I was excited to see the movie, but decided against it after reading about it.

Unfortunately, I'm not a fan of supporting by buying tickets a movie that is obviously male gaze AND chock full of Orientalism.

I'll watch it when it becomes available on Netflix.

I think you should see it and form your own opinion, but it's your money.

Bad trailer and bad director (imo).

 

[Zakalwe]

One thing that jumped at me more in the second viewing was l...

Take it to the spoiler thread, just answered you and posted a bunch of spoilers... quick edit, hope no-one read it.

 

[Dice//]

When people complained about Horizon, the most diverse video game I've ever played, I realized that there was no pleasing some people. And that this is just a side effect of becoming more inclusive and progressive as a society (which is worth it, obviously)

Is this regarding Alloy's hairdo choice?

 

[Curious Puppy]

I try to be as inclusive and progressive as possible but it definitely gets tiring when people seem to analyze every new thing with the intent of getting outraged. If it's obvious and blatant then it deserves mention, but something like Blade Runner? C'mon. Not every movie has to look like The Force Awakens, and just because they don't doesn't mean that there is malicious intent.

When people complained about Horizon, the most diverse video game I've ever played, I realized that there was no pleasing some people. And that this is just a side effect of becoming more inclusive and progressive as a society (which is worth it, obviously)

Outrage culture doesn’t help make anyone become more inclusive or progressive. It’s a poison that is hurting the progressive movement and pushed on by totally ignorant people or flat out liars. It’s a war on context, critical thought, and discussion.

 

[HariKari]

It's too bad. I was excited to see the movie, but decided against it after reading about it.

Unfortunately, I'm not a fan of supporting by buying tickets a movie that is obviously male gaze AND chock full of Orientalism.

I'll watch it when it becomes available on Netflix.

Found the market for those VICE articles aka people that want to be told what to believe instead of coming to their own conclusions.

 

[Doctor Ironic]

Arrival is supposed to be a great movie or something? Was eh at best for me with one of the most stupid twists ever.

Spoiler

She decided her daughter had to die of horrible pain caused by cancer, what a hero.

Spoiler

She decided that even if it meant having to bear the pain of losing her, it would still be worth being able to have those years together with her daughter.

Good job pulling THAT out of the movie somehow or whatever.

 

[shintoki]

Found the market for those VICE articles aka people that want to be told what to believe instead of coming to their own conclusions.

If I recall, the original's settings strong Japanese influence was having in the US at the time due to being on the forefront of consumer technology. The setting for the entire film is basically what they thought the future was going to be like due to the Cold War, current trends, and influence.

 

[ronaldthump]

Arrival is supposed to be a great movie or something? Was eh at best for me with one of the most stupid twists ever.

Spoiler

She decided her daughter had to die of horrible pain caused by cancer, what a hero.

The biggest problem wtih arrival was

Spoiler

their nonsensical alternative history twist that allowed her to prevent the war - learning the language per the films logic allowed time to compress but she would never have existed in a reality down that timeline where she meets the chinese commander and gotten his numbers.

Such a lot of horseshit arrival was. Every single reviewer seems to ignore how the film breaks its own logic.

 

[7Th]

Some of this discussion smells of unironic "mansplaining", specially about a movie written by men, directed by men and produced by men. Like those anime fans that say that the "fanservice in Evangelion doesn't count because it's meant to be satire"; kinda sad.

 

[mlclmtckr]

Some of this discussion smells of unironic "mansplaining", specially about a movie written by men, directed by men and produced by men. Like those anime fans that say that the "fanservice in Evangelion doesn't count because it's meant to be satire"; kinda sad.

I said in a different thread but this is like saying The Handmaid's Tale is misogynist. The movie is absolutely interested in gender and perceptions of women, but I can't come up with any reading where the film itself is actually misogynist.

 

[Arulan]

One visual difference I noticed between this and the original is the lack of fans. They were very prominent in the original.

 

[s_mirage]

One visual difference I noticed between this and the original is the lack of fans. They were very prominent in the original.

Climate change; it's not hot any more. Maybe.

 

[jett]

One visual difference I noticed between this and the original is the lack of fans. They were very prominent in the original.

They finally invented AC in 2049.

 

[Mix Master]

I feel as if it's a self fufilling prophecy, all people watch is blockbusters, then complain that Blockbusters are the only thing that makes money.

 

[HariKari]

One visual difference I noticed between this and the original is the lack of fans. They were very prominent in the original.

It's cold and snowing in 2049's LA.