IAmRandom31
Banned
that part was hilarious. randomly jumped the cobblestone by mistake, which landed him where you get the thief ring, then he just plowed Ostrava in the back and kicked him off the ledge. Funny
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Bloodborne to get first public hands-on at gamescom
- Thread starter JehutyRunner
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that part was hilarious. randomly jumped the cobblestone by mistake, which landed him where you get the thief ring, then he just plowed Ostrava in the back and kicked him off the ledge. Funny
butman
Member
I think it will be only one Bloodborne (aka next gen Demon's Souls) Sony exclusive from From Software game for this gen.
Other thing is talk about Dark Souls 3, or whatever his name it will be, the game for every platform, and that it will be different from Blooborne.
Like it happened between Demon's and Dark.
He's not reliable. Like at all
TheWorthyEdge
Member
Alrighty then. Probably March IMO. February already had the Order and the Witcher 3.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Whaaat? Poor Ostrava. He's probably too weak to do any meaningful amount of damage to him.
indigo-cyclops
Member
I would hope it does!
Reminds me of Bulletstorm
And come on... Bloodborne doesn't sound generic? Really? That's one videogame sounding title if I ever heard one. I'm looking forward to it as much as the next guy, doesn't mean I can't laugh at the title.
Well... All I can say is that you're missing out.
And I feel like playing Dark Souls 2 after Bloodborne is a bad idea, since by then you'd probably gotten used to Bloodborne's faster paced combat that DS2 will feel like a slog in comparison.
IAmRandom31
Banned
I think Sony may be more willing to get in bed with FROM this generation. The fact that Miyazaki was so willing to branch away from Souls and make a new product with Sony exclusively shows a ton about what he thought of their first run together. I think this could be a generation long partnership actually. Especially with the sales differential being what it is now and being what it could be come early 2015 when the heavy hitters like Bloodborne begin falling for the PS4.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
He was also playing with a lot of distractions. It's not the same when you're by yourself, taking the time to check item descriptions, etc. I even said as much in the chat, saying I'd give him the benefit of doubt when people were doubting he beat DkS2, and he said "thank you Morriganstark I really appreciate it" LOL. Poor guy.I can only imagine that the dude streaming Demon's Souls did not beat Dark Souls II, despite putting 90 hours into it..
That or he got really rusty for mechanics he played five months ago.
On the subject of Demon's Souls; you worked on the strategy guide that came with the Red Phantom edition in Europe, right?
Imru al-Qays
Banned
DS2 will feel like a slog for him anyway. It's a much more sluggish game than Demon's or Dark 1.
FUUUUUUUCK
HORRORSHØW
Member
i just want a detailed report on your hand's on experience.
While we can have a fair discussion comparing Dark Souls 2's combat to its predecessor, Demon's Souls is pretty much outclassed by those 2 games when it comes to PVE, and DS2 had the best PVP in the series as a whole.Imru al-Qays;124403780 said:
Maybe if we were talking lore/setting/level design I'd say that DS2 was the inferior game no doubt... but other than a few hitches here and there, DS2's gameplay was superb and far from sluggish.
IAmRandom31
Banned
im curious about the dynamic event that seemed to be occuring in the behind the scenes playthrough from E3 with another guy off in the distance fighting with enemies. Is that something that will occur a lot in the game? Also since this game has this massive labyrinth of a city, is that the only location in the game or will we be travelling to various other sub-sections of the city or out in the forests surround the city, etc.
Shit like that is what I'm curious about for now. Also, since you have this switchblade will other weapons have multiple functions like this or is this a specialized weapon that is one of a kind?
ArkkAngel007
Member
I've pegged it for an April release, since anything earlier I feel is too soon.
February definitely does not need any more games. Arkham Knight and I think Evolve are also targeting that month, both of which can be huge releases that eat up everything else.
Imru al-Qays
Banned
Rolls in DS2 are shorter (in terms of distance covered), slower (in terms of distance covered per frame), and have fewer i-frames. Most character animations are slower: estus, item usage more generally, entering fog gates, flipping switches, opening doors, opening treasure chests, shield-breaking, raising your shield, getting shield-stunned. Stamina usage is higher across the board.
You can argue that DS2 has good PvE combat (I guess?), but I'm not really understanding how you can argue that it doesn't have more sluggish combat considering basically everything your character does is slower. The only exceptions are run speed and some weapon attack speeds (DS2 sped up a lot of the heavier weapons because it removed poise).
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
My top three questions would be:
1) the role of fire arms in this game. Surely the shotgun is not the only firearm in Bloodborne.
2) How does the above effect magic in Bloodborne? Is there even going to be magic in this game (I would be happy with that).
3) Online aspect.
Imru al-Qays
Banned
Are shields completely absent, or just rare?
Are there heavy weapons, comparable to halberds, greatswords, etc from the Souls series? Or are most weapons light and quick?
We've heard mention of it becoming "harder to control your character" if you die too much, or if you absorb too much blood. What does this mean, exactly?
hydrophilic attack
Member
Imru’ al-Qays;124406276 said:
Yes, I can. And I just want to say that many of these factors you mentioned are actually exactly the reason why I would argue that DaS II combat mechanics is better than in any other game in the series:
Only if you fell that you have to min-max and stay at 69.9 equip weight. With low-weight builds you get longer rolls (and faster stamina recovery) and it's on a sliding scale, rather than the harsh, arbitrary limits (at 25 and 50 %) in the previous games, so that not everyone will aim at 24.9 or 49.9 % of equip weight. Instead, for a low-weight character, for each time you lower your defence by removing a couple of pounds of armour, you directly see a benefit in roll length and stamina recovery, so that there is always a tradeoff between defense and mobility.
only at low agility. For a high agility build you will have more i-frames than DaS.
Making the battles more interesting. In DeS and DaS it was far too easy to heal mid-battle and not be punished for it. Also, you can cut down estus usage time to about half of what it is at the start of the game by increasing agility.
Good changes, makes it harder for you to cheese your way past enemies (which was far too easy in the earlier games). You can still do it, but you have to be smarter about it.
The new shield-breaking mechanic was my favourite addition to PVP combat. But it would have been overpowered unless they made it slower. Making it slower gives the one holding up the shield time to react. Keeping up your shield to bait a shield-break, only to attack when the opponent performs the shield break is a viable tactic. It's much more interesting this way.
I agree that this may have been unnecessary, but it becomes faster if you increase agility.
Good change because it gives you a bigger incentive to keep track of your stamina. Makes PVP more interesting and makes low equip weight builds (which have faster stamina recovery) more viable.
Good change because it gives you a bigger incentive to keep track of your stamina. Makes PVP more interesting and makes low equip weight builds (which have faster stamina recovery) more viable.
To sum up, it seems you were trying to play the game without leveling ADP and always very close to 70 % equip load. If this is the case, you may have enjoyed the game more if you switched up you playstyle.
Jimmyfenix
Member
Dark Souls was multiplat, because SCEJ didn't have faith in Demon's souls prior to release.
Something tells me that SCEJ is not going to make the same mistake again.
The fact that the E3 reveal was by Yosp himself and having Miyazaki's name at the beginning of the trailer tells me that Sony is willing to go the extra mile to support Bloodborne.
hydrophilic attack
Member
Are you saying you would be happy with magic or without magic in the game.
Because I would totally be happy if there was no magic in the game.
Imru al-Qays
Banned
We're talking about whether combat is more sluggish. You might like combat more sluggish, and that's fine, but it's a fact that combat is more sluggish in DS2.
Your rolls are considerably shorter than Demon's and Dark 1 rolls even when you're totally naked.
Still a shorter, slower roll, though. Rolling in DS2 is exclusively about evading attacks, it's not about positioning. This makes your character feel less agile than in DS1.
None of these things are you disagreeing with the fact that DS2's combat is more sluggish. You just like it better that way. I don't, because it limits your ability to get out of tricky situations by thinking quickly and repositioning yourself.
I leveled my adaptability to 20 as soon as I understood what it did (which took a while, because no one understood what it did at launch). The fact that you have to do this in order to properly make use of your roll is one of the worst things about the game.
Dark Souls 2 obviously wants to be a more challenging game than Dark Souls 1. The B team accomplished this not by making a more challenging game with more challenging bosses and enemies and level layouts, but by nerfing the player character. They then had to actually nerf the enemies to compensate, which is why enemies in Dark Souls 2 refuse to attack you while you're going through the exaggerated shield break animation.
Not a single boss in Dark Souls 2 would be a challenge if you were playing your Dark Souls 1 character.
pharmboy044
Member
Anyone figure out why this game wasn't on that best of Gamescom 2014 list?
PhantomOfTheKnight
Member
...becuase Gamescom hasn't started yet?
You mean the Gamescom awards? That's because nominees can't been demoed to the public at other events before (Bloodborne had a closed door demonstration at E3 which disqualifies it).
Here's how those games made it to the list.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=124196966&postcount=36
pharmboy044
Member
Ah okay. That's too bad. This game oozes atmosphere and it deserves all the recognition it can get.
Does the introduction of dynamic character events like that in the demo mean that summon signs are a thing of the past? At least as far as NPC summons go?
Will the character events be more frequent than in past games? Demon's Souls had characters like Biorr helping you out, but for the most part it was a rarity. Will Bloodborne have a greater focus on this?
Also, will enemies be more vigilant and dynamic, or will their placement be mostly stationary like in the Souls games?
Can we have any details on how "Beast Form" will work? Will it affect gameplay more than Soul/Hollow Form did?
Finally, can we expect more focus on PvP multiplayer like in Dark Souls II?
I wouldn't be surprised if some of these can't be answered, but eh, worth a shot.
SolidSnakex
Member
That's definitely going to happen in Japan and probably Europe. The US is always a big question mark. SCEA is very picky about bundling games.
abstract alien
Member
Is it confirmed to not run as choppy as it did the last time we saw it? I'm excited for it, but that was just bad.
hydrophilic attack
Member
Imru’ al-Qays;124410770 said:
Yes, I know. Sorry about that, but I felt like I needed to barge in here because often when people who like DaS II gameplay say that they do, we usually get laughed off. And it's very difficult to articulate why we feel this way. But here you managed to put a list that pretty much shows why I prefer the combat gameplay of DS II to the earlier games, so I had to take the opportunity. Also, even though you didn't say it outright, you seemed to be implying that the sluggishness (which only applies to certain builds) made the gameplay worse, and I wanted to dispute that point.
Interesting. I never noticed this. When you mentioned this I tried googling to find information to back what you say here up, but couldn't find it. Can you show me a link or a video that shows this off? Thanks!
Like I said, I didn't even notice this difference between the games. But even if there is such a difference, dashing has always been more important for positioning than rolling anyway. And that makes it more interesting:. Choose between rolling that gives you i-frames but lets you cover less ground, or running which leaves you vulnerable, but also makes you move faster. If rolling can be used for both avoiding and positioning, it is overpowered and the battles become less interesting.
See my first paragraph
No, you just have to be able to think even more quickly than before. You have to decide whether you want to roll for invincibility or run for repositioning. You can't heal right in front of the enemy, but have to get away from him first (putting a greater emphasis on positioning than the other games!!!!) etc. Maybe you weren't just up to the task? In a lot of situations in DS II you will be rewarded for thinking on your feet and repositioning yourself. For example, while hated by many, most of the situations where you are swarmed by enemies can be handled by quick thinking leading to clever positioning and utilizing chokepoints to level the odds. The Ancient Dragon battle (while hated by many) is all about positioning. Switching from mid to long range when he prepares to fly up and breathe fire down and back to mid range again afterwards, or switching from mid to short range when leaves himself open by using other attacks and back again to mid range afterwards.
OK, you would have needed to level it higher if you wanted as many i-frames as in DaS. Also, you didn't tell me what you kept your equip weight at. Judging from your first post, I still reckon you kept it very close to 70 %. Did you or did you not?
I can see how that can be argued, but I don't agree with it. The way ADP works makes for a greater diversity of builds at low-to-mid SLs. Would have done it for high SLs as well, if it weren't for the stupidity of SM (the one point where they really screwed up with DaS II).
indigo-cyclops
Member
The guide was based off the original Demon's Souls wiki that me and few other folks built and moderate. The guy that compiled everything used it as a framework and credited us. So I didn't technically write the guide
Imru al-Qays
Banned
The fact that a lot of very smart people have put together very in-depth YouTube videos explaining why exactly they prefer DS1 and no one has done that for DS2 might suggest that the reasons for preferring DS2 aren't very articulatable.
I don't know that anyone's tested it. I logged in and tested it myself just now with a light roll DS1 character and a DS2 character at 25% encumbrance and wasn't actually able to find a measurable difference either way, so I'll concede the point that at lower encumbrance levels roll distance is largely unchanged.
Of course, staying at lower encumbrance levels is harder in DS2 because encumbrance has been split off into its own otherwise worthless stat. It requires heavy investment in two separate stats to duplicate what you could achieve effortlessly in DS1 - early on your roll is just going to be worse, period.
I platinumed both games and didn't have difficulty with any boss except Smelter and Rat Authority on my first playthrough. I'd say I was up to the task.
The sort of positioning you're describing isn't what I had in mind, really. You're talking more about using the environment to your advantage: choke points, running away, etc. That's all well and good, but the reason you have to do that in Dark Souls 2 is because the close-quarters positioning is so much clumsier. I watched a friend play Undead Burg for the first time the other day (first time playing a Souls game), and he got to the room right after the firebomb bridge that's full of hollows (what great level design, by the way - I can't remember anything like it in FotFG). He got swarmed, almost died, some miraculously lucky rolls got him through to the other side of the room where he could pop an estus, turn around, and re-engage. If he had tried that in Dark Souls 2 he would have died: at the beginning of the game his rolls wouldn't have had enough i-frames to be even worth using in a situation like that, he probably would have been block-stunned at some point, and he wouldn't have been able to use an estus without retreating from the room entirely (the point of this room in DS1 is precisely that you can't retreat from it, you have to position yourself properly within it).
Of course, there aren't any situations like that in Forest of the Fallen Giants. You're never caught between four enemies who surround you in close quarters with your only way out being a bridge that's being pelted with firebombs. And I think the reason for that is clear: your character in DS2 just isn't up to the task of negotiating that sort of situation, because he's been rendered so slow in order to make the game "harder." It's harder, after a fashion, but it's also easier, because your character's weakness means the designers didn't feel comfortable implementing enemy configurations that they would have had no compunction about implementing in DS1.
It's a pattern with the boss fights too. Compare a fight like TWTD to the O&S fight. Arguably TWTD is a harder fight, but it's harder for the wrong reasons: because you have to constantly retreat and wait for your opening to deal damage or heal, or you'll be punished. It's a very defensive fight against two largely identical enemies. O&S is totally different: they actively try to flank you, and Ornstein is constantly dashing around the arena, requiring you to remain mobile. It's a fight that has a greater likelihood of something unexpected happening to you, and your ability to beat them will depend on your ability to react quickly to those unexpected occurrences.
DS2 is numbers-hard, but that makes it design-simple.
I played at relatively low encumbrance (in the 30s) for most of the game because I approached it like Dark Souls, then I respecced to a low-vitality build because armor seemed useless and kept my encumbrance around 70. My current character runs around 45% depending on my weapon.
It makes for greater diversity of builds, sure. It also makes for inferior gameplay, as people have to deal with inconsistent i-frames as they level up their characters. I'd say the latter outweighs the former. Diversity of builds isn't really something I value in itself, especially if it comes at the cost of the core mechanics.
The guide was based off the original Demon's Souls wiki that me and few other folks built and moderate. The guy that compiled everything used it as a framework and credited us. So I didn't technically write the guide
Oh right, forgot that it was basically community made, which in a way makes it more special and earnest. Never used the guide to play through the game, but it was nice and accessible when you wanted to read up on weapons stats, what the heck 'World Tendency' is (the WT system really mindboggled me in my 1st playthrough, I hope something like it returns in Bloodborne) and whatnot. Definitely made my first playthrough in Demon's Souls very unique and gave it a real old school feel to it. My only wish for Bloodborne is it to evoke the same sense of wonder and uncertainty DeS gave me the first time in how it works and plays.
You have my thanks for contributing to the DeS wiki (great site) and indirectly the guide!
Jimmyfenix
Member
I need to know if snuggly the crow will return.
semiconscious
Gold Member
NavyPharaoh
Member
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
I agree with you.
The guide was based off the original Demon's Souls wiki that me and few other folks built and moderate. The guy that compiled everything used it as a framework and credited us. So I didn't technically write the guide
Which wiki? When i was playing DeS the only wiki that I recall being fleshed out was wikidot.
Dhruv_hanom
Member
Every to gamescom!
Muchi Muchi Pink
Member
I guess there won't be any magic, that's why they use firearms instead.
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