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Bolivia complains to France about country's portrayal in Ghost Recon: Wildlands

Ahasverus

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. Likely they don't give two shits about your country anyway, and wouldn't give it a second thought if it weren't in this game.
You say that as if it's not a problem in the long run. If these are the thoughts about a country you're keeping with you, what happens when a guy from said country goes to your company looking for a job? would you say "Oh yeah, Bolivia, I'll check it out on Wikipedia" or will your first instinct to think of it as the game/media told you it was? As I said, this is a problem for the people of that country when going to other countries.
Lol talk about first world problems.
It's literally a third world problem. And it's not as funny when you're trying to manage an international work group. "Is the guy who lives among llamas with no internet trying to lead ME? fuck that".
Happened to me last month.

I'm not saying this game is going to end Bolivian people international aspirations haha but it won't hurt to have a bit more of respect for the setting if you're making a videogame/work of art. At least make it look like it belongs there!
 

Gorilla Shark

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Åesop;231364423 said:
I am from Kazakhstan and I think the movie Borat is f***** hilarious. Why would I care how the country is represented, it's a comedy movie and you're watching it to laugh, not for regional studies

Exactly! I'm Greek and can't imagine being mad about My Big Fat Greek Wedding or whatever.

Also, although somewhat unrelated, I have a good friend who is Bolivian and he introduced me to a liquor from there called Singani. If you ever have a chance, try it. Fantastic stuff.
 

blakep267

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I understand where they are coming from. I have an issue with movies tv shows games etc that portray African countries as nothing more than warlords playgrounds that need outside(sometimes white) saviours to come in and kill everybody.
 

Fisty

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You say that as if it's not a problem in the long run. If these are the thoughts about a country you're keeping with you, what happens when a guy from said country goes to your company looking for a job? would you say "Oh yeah, Bolivia, I'll check it out on Wikipedia" or will your first instinct to think of it as the game/media told you it was? As I said, this is a problem for the people of that country when going to other countries.

This is silly. You're worried about what brain dead mouth-breathing morons view your country as based on a fictional video game.

I mean, if the Travel Channel was doing this, you might be fighting a worthwhile battle here
 

Springy

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You kill tons and tons of Americans who have decided to follow the NK invaders. You kill spies and betrayers, soldiers, all American. The Korean leaders are mostly Americans who have switched sides. Not that I think it matters, but in either case, it is fiction. So I don't think there's a problem killing Bolivians who have started to work for the cartels, or Mexicans who have decided to enslave the populace.
Thank god there are Americans there to decide who can live and who should die. Yet to see any indication of sympathetic or competent Bolivian characters, though did get juicy dialogue regarding their thoughts on effective torture technique and recreational coke use from my squad.

Not even going to ask you what you think of the lack of penalty for shooting civilians, as you already pointed out you have limited knowledge of the game.
 

Crossing Eden

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Feb 14, 2014
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Åesop;231361455 said:
Pathetic.. it's a video game, get over it
Video games can have devastating views on one's perception. Take for instance the rampant sexism in the gaming community due to the constant objectification of women in this medium.
 

Ultime

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Yeah, the whole concept and execution is quite racist, "LatinAmerican people = helpless and savages".

Are there at least Bolivian "good" characters in the game?
 

Warablo

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I am not suprised. I am not Bolivian but I lived there sometime back, and the depiction of the country in the game is as far from reality as possible. They might have just as well named the country something invented.

There are no drug cartels in Bolivia (that's Colombia, Mexico), to begin with. Second, all the "santa muerte" theme and motives (skeleton worshipping, etc.) that could be seen in the trailer comes from Mexican culture, not Bolivian. The "drug lords" look like the Maras (tattoos in the face, hands, everywhere in the body and bald), who are Central American gangs and groups, not South American. The towns look 100% Mexican with Mexican-style architecture. The desertic landscape from the trailer also looks Mexican, Bolivia has cold deserts, and they don't have cactus.

I don't even know why they decided to go with Bolivia at this point.
My thoughts exactly.
 
Oct 11, 2009
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Åesop;231361455 said:
Pathetic.. it's a video game, get over it
Media (all media, tv films books games etc) shapes perception of the people more then you think.
Why do you think most Americans can only think of how the middle east looks like from tv shows and movies and not what it really looks like.
 

OldRoutes

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Yeah, the whole concept and execution is quite racist, "LatinAmerican people = helpless and savages".

Are there at least Bolivian "good" characters in the game?

You team up with a local resistance group called Kataris 26 throughout the game.
 

Springy

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You team up with a local resistance group called Kataris 26 throughout the game.
Is there any evidence they do anything of note in the full game? The beta relegated them as mission-givers, and chatter between the player character, squad and CIA handler showed a complete lack of respect for their goals and abilities. You literally do everything for them.
 

Smokey_Run

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Mar 19, 2015
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I feel like I've seen this before. And I'm pretty sure it was also a Ghost Recon game?

I know Bangladesh threatened to sue Sony for SOCOM 3 because they felt it labeled them a sponsor of terrorism. Therefore, Bangladesh was changed to South East Asia in the game and the game later dropped the Terrorist team name in multiplayer for Mercenaries.
 

Fisty

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Jun 26, 2014
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Is there any evidence they do anything of note in the full game? The beta relegated them as mission-givers, and chatter between the player character, squad and CIA handler showed a complete lack of respect for their goals and abilities. You literally do everything for them.

Have you ever seen or read a Tom Clancy thing before? Because you just described like half his books
 
Dec 11, 2010
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You say that as if it's not a problem in the long run. If these are the thoughts about a country you're keeping with you, what happens when a guy from said country goes to your company looking for a job? would you say "Oh yeah, Bolivia, I'll check it out on Wikipedia" or will your first instinct to think of it as the game/media told you it was? As I said, this is a problem for the people of that country when going to other countries.

It's literally a third world problem. And it's not as funny when you're trying to manage an international work group. "Is the guy who lives among llamas with no internet trying to lead ME? fuck that".
Happened to me last month.

I'm not saying this game is going to end Bolivian people international aspirations haha but it won't hurt to have a bit more of respect for the setting if you're making a videogame/work of art. At least make it look like it belongs there!

Thank god there are Americans there to decide who can live and who should die. Yet to see any indication of sympathetic or competent Bolivian characters, though did get juicy dialogue regarding their thoughts on effective torture technique and recreational coke use from my squad.

Not even going to ask you what you think of the lack of penalty for shooting civilians, as you already pointed out you have limited knowledge of the game.

I've given my opinion. I'm sorry for those who feel they are misrepresented. I don't feel that accurate representation is a standard we can hold up to every piece of fiction we consume. There remains some responsibility on the consumer to understand the difference between reality and fiction. Both posters I quoted have obviously more stake in this than I do so since I've said my peace, I'll stop there.
 

blakep267

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I think it was Mexico before which probably lead to them using fake Bolivia instead.
Like I can easily see how this was a game with the ghosts vs the Mexican cartels but it probably got rejected so they just picked another central/South American country and came up with Bolivia without putting a ton more thought into it
 

kevin1025

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This game has been in development for so long, and its setting has been well known. Why now, five days out?
 

ForkNetwork

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It shows how Ubisoft gets into trouble because of not thinking things straight. Colombia, Mexico, heck even Peru, those countries have drug issues, if you want to do a game based on those concepts just avoid problems and do it in one of those. Making it on Bolivia is not the worst thing in the world, but I do understand how some could feel upset.
 

Fj0823

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This thread reminds me of this gem regarding my country.





San José is nowhere near the beach.

People making entertainment dont give a fuck
 

The Hermit

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I used to be bothered by the videogame representation of Brasil, but recently I don't care.

The country has to deserve a better image, not just say "this place is not that bad".
 

Fisty

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Like I can easily see how this was a game with the ghosts vs the Mexican cartels but it probably got rejected so they just picked another central/South American country and came up with Bolivia without putting a ton more thought into it

iirc they chose Bolivia because it has more diverse terrain than Mexico
 

NolbertoS

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Where does Bolivia think the world get their daily yay-yo fix. They already made a game with Pablo Escobar and the drug wars, I believe. People have the right to artistic liberty.

Edit: how about call of juarez. Thats also a game about the juarez drug cartel
 

Eila

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I remember a few years back Ciudad Juarez was pretty offended by Call of Juarez: The Cartel. Didn't help the game was crap.
 

Sakujou

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Its a videogame. On one hand, i like seeing new places, where the story takes place, but i also cant stand seeing when the american troops are always the good guys (where in fact they have fucked up so many occasions).

so anyway, its a work of fiction, as long as no one personal gets discriminated, i dont see a problem. in fact, this raises my interest in going to bolivia sometime in the future, just to see if it is really as bad as it got depictured (there are tons of beautiful places on this planet).
 

ReaperXL7

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I feel like this sets a potentially problematic scenario. A very large amount fictions take place in a non realistic version of places that are real, if Bolivia were aloud to dictate that video games cannot be set in its country what would stop other countries from following suit?

The U.S, many countries in Europe, and a number of other governments would have a field day with something like this. I'm sure Trump would love to sue other countries that portray America as less then paradise.
 

OldRoutes

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Is there any evidence they do anything of note in the full game? The beta relegated them as mission-givers, and chatter between the player character, squad and CIA handler showed a complete lack of respect for their goals and abilities. You literally do everything for them.

They're found randomly fighting the cartels sometimes, but, yeah, you do help them.
 

Xtars

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It's not only that it's a game, it is a work of fiction.

Movies, Books and Art in general have through the ages taken extreme liberties in their portrayal of places and events to convey their narrative in an appealing way.

This should not be an issue.
 

Hagi

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Jun 8, 2009
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Not sure why they bother tbh. It's a game.

I mean if we germans are in games we are usually nazis

In games set in and around WW2 what else would Germans be? there's a slight difference between historical fact and made up bullshit.

I get why they'd be annoyed but at the same time I don't think it should be changed.
 
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You guys thinking this doesn't affect the country haven't been asked if you have internet in your dirt roaded towns.

So what, I get asked if I have an underage sex slave in my basement because I live in Vienna. At some point you just need to understand that these prejudices exist and in fact give those that hold them a worse look than they try to bestow upon you.
 

StoveOven

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I don't see what basis they'd have for legal action, but I can see why they'd be kinda pissed

This was my thought too. It's totally valid to complain about misconceptions about your country, and a poor representation of a real place is a valid criticism of a game.

However, I have no idea what legal action they could possibly take. If there's anyone in here who does I'd be interested in hearing it.
 
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I am not suprised. I am not Bolivian but I lived there sometime back, and the depiction of the country in the game is as far from reality as possible. They might have just as well named the country something invented.

There are no drug cartels in Bolivia (that's Colombia, Mexico), to begin with. Second, all the "santa muerte" theme and motives (skeleton worshipping, etc.) that could be seen in the trailer comes from Mexican culture, not Bolivian. The "drug lords" look like the Maras (tattoos in the face, hands, everywhere in the body and bald), who are Central American gangs and groups, not South American. The towns look 100% Mexican with Mexican-style architecture. The desertic landscape from the trailer also looks Mexican, Bolivia has cold deserts, and they don't have cactus.

I don't even know why they decided to go with Bolivia at this point.
so they didn't even research Bolivia and just made a Mexican environment and called it Bolivia?

that's some "all Brown countries look alike" type of bullshit.
 

Demicore

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Man, imagine the army of lawyers that would be required if France took legal action each time it or its citizens are portrayed through the lens of a negative stereotype in works of art.
 

Madrugador

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I remember that in Hitman: Blood Money Chile was a selvatic country runned by narcos.

It was kinda cool and funny to be honest. There isn't even jungle here, makes me think Eidos didn't even google the country :lol
 

Hierophant

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i played the beta but the stink of "I'm playing as a bunch of paramilitary assholes doing super illegal operations in a foreign country with no official backing" never left my nose, i know they comment on it in game but the writing is so bad and I couldn't take any of their observations seriously, all I saw were US invaders. also I thought the depiction of the country was a bit shitty, why not create a fictional nation since they obviously didn't base it on reality
 

Head.spawn

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I am not suprised. I am not Bolivian but I lived there sometime back, and the depiction of the country in the game is as far from reality as possible. They might have just as well named the country something invented.

There are no drug cartels in Bolivia (that's Colombia, Mexico), to begin with. Second, all the "santa muerte" theme and motives (skeleton worshipping, etc.) that could be seen in the trailer comes from Mexican culture, not Bolivian. The "drug lords" look like the Maras (tattoos in the face, hands, everywhere in the body and bald), who are Central American gangs and groups, not South American. The towns look 100% Mexican with Mexican-style architecture. The desertic landscape from the trailer also looks Mexican, Bolivia has cold deserts, and they don't have cactus.

I don't even know why they decided to go with Bolivia at this point.
so they didn't even research Bolivia and just made a Mexican environment and called it Bolivia?

that's some "all Brown countries look alike" type of bullshit.

Correct me if I'm wrong, I don't have the game but I remember reading that the entire premise of the game is that in a fictional future, Mexicans Drug cartels move their operations and invade Boliva to set up shop.

The interview I read said something along the lines of 'real life Bolivia' produces the worlds largest supply of Coca plant in the entire world... "what if the Mexican drug cartels took advantage of that in the future". That was the premise IIRC. Therefore the reason for the drugs and the Mexican references in game.
 
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This was my thought too. It's totally valid to complain about misconceptions about your country, and a poor representation of a real place is a valid criticism of a game.

However, I have no idea what legal action they could possibly take. If there's anyone in here who does I'd be interested in hearing it.

Basis for legal action against France generally? Zero.
Basis for legal action against Ubisoft? Zero. Need to prove some damages have occurred. The "it's fiction" defence pretty much prevents any legal standing. If Ubisoft was saying "looks this is what Bolivia is like" then I could see some clever lawyer trying to spin a defamation argument but saying a whole country was defamed is a big hill to climb.


*based on an understanding only of Canadian law
 

Fisty

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Man, imagine the army of lawyers that would be required if France took legal action each time it or its citizens are portrayed through the lens of a negative stereotype in works of art.

Meh, they probably just fart in the offender's general direction 😂
 

bryanee

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Correct me if I'm wrong, I don't have the game but I remember reading that the entire premise of the game is that in a fictional future, Mexicans Drug cartels move their operations and invade Boliva to set up shop.

You are correct.
 
Mar 27, 2015
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I can't agree with some of you in here or Bolivia. Fiction is fiction and it isn't suppose to portray it realistically, even if they wanted to that is impossible in games now.

We can have zombies, cop killing, murder, war, nukes, death of all people in other games and areas (real countries etc) but can't do it here? I mean, I understand his concern but he should be aware that no one is playing the game assuming this represents the country. This would have never ever came up (and if it does, on rare and non warranted causes) if he had not said anything. The only ones making it into something is him honestly.
 

godhandiscen

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Åesop;231361455 said:
Pathetic.. it's a video game, get over it

It hurts tourism in the nation.
 

Shredderi

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You guys thinking this doesn't affect the country haven't been asked if you have internet in your dirt roaded towns.

Funny thing is, that I have actually been asked if we have polar bears and proper electricity here in Finland. This was in the early 2000 but it was pretty funny. Oh and it was over internet too.
 

Lautaro

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Aug 8, 2013
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A public complaint is fine but taking it to french embassy is absurd. But of course, that's pretty much how Evo and his gang do politics, turn everything into an outrage and an attack in the country so he can distract the people while he keeps trying to modify the constitution to be reelected indefinitely (we chileans, know this from firsthand experience).

Don't fall for their tricks.
 

Wulfram

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Correct me if I'm wrong, I don't have the game but I remember reading that the entire premise of the game is that in a fictional future, Mexicans Drug cartels move their operations and invade Boliva to set up shop.

Its 2019, that's only barely the future. Its hard not to see it as implying something about the current state of Bolivia when its set so immediately and doesn't have an obviously fantastic element.