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[Cyframe]

We can't form solidarity on economics issues because for centuries, poor and middle-class white people in this country overwhelmingly favor class warfare on the poor because they presume it'll stop lazy minorities from stealing money. The very thing most of the population has in common with one another is off the table because of racism, and that racism by and large isn't coming from inner city black folk; it's coming from suburban and rural whites who think they have more in common with Trump than they do their black neighbors a block away.

Mhm. And that's exactly why I pay no heed to those who believe that economic status links people more than race. There are far too many people who believe that things like Black people using SNAP is somehow increasing the US's national debt and is a leading cause of it.
----
After the election, I remember seeing a ton of pieces on how "identity politics" cost democrats the election. That we should tone down the message of things like police reform. There was no consideration for how those articles could affect the morale of minorities. We're just expected to take it and bend.

And going back to the former point that I made, if a person is making a minority so uncomfortable that they don't want to talk to them, that's the biggest signal of self-reflection a person can get and more often than not they fail at that.

Coming up to someone who may have dealt with racial harassment that day and expecting and feeling entitled to debate about the n word or anything race related is insidious honestly. You can't approach someone with a certain attitude and expect them to respond cordially all the time. I've had too many encounters with white people who got offended when I just said: I don't want to talk about whatever racial thing they wanted to discuss atm. They literally lost their shit because I didn't want to engage with them.

Articles like the OP presented are extremely demoralizing to minorities and some can't see why.

 

[BigRedOne]

Is this an explanation of barstool?

 

[Chmpocalypse]

I did not say that I personally should be able to. The closest I came to saying that was literally me proposing a what if scenario. Or possibly that I have had those conversations with people in the past. That doesn't mean I think I should be a part of it literally every time it happens.

I also never said I should be able to go around giving my opinion unsolicited. The closest I came to that was saying that if the subject is brought up in a public forum, that people have the right to speak about it. On a public forum, like GAF, posting a thread is soliciting opinions of a community. You may not personally care about my opinion, which is fine, you're not obligated to.

I merely said that you shouldn't automatically assume someone can't give an informed opinion about a subject because of the way they look, even if it's about a subject that they themselves can't have direct experience with.

I specifically said as much in the second post I made in this thread.



I also hope you appreciate the irony in the fact that the only reason we are talking about the N word in the first place is because someone solicited my opinion about something related to it.

I don't think you understand the objection.

As a non-POC, you literally cannot have an informed opinion on the subject of the n word. You are not black.

 

[GKnight]

The author reads like an oblivious upper class... "We invented insulin so forget about racism."

That said, if someone tells me my opinion is invalid because I am a white male I instantly see them as not intelligent enough to discuss the issues with me.

The problems of the country have to be addressed with the cooperation of the 70% majority of that population (male side and Im referring to Canada).

Shutting white males out of your discussions and decision making is a sure fire way to stop the majority of white males from agreeing with your decisions.

When you include someone in the decision making process they are far more likely to not complain about the decision.

 

[excelsiorlef]

The author reads like an oblivious upper class... "We invented insulin so forget about racism."

That said, if someone tells me my opinion is invalid because I am a white male I instantly see them as not intelligent enough to discuss the issues with me.

The problems of the country have to be addressed with the cooperation of the 70% majority of that population (male side and Im referring to Canada).

Shutting white males out of your discussions and decision making is a sure fire way to stop the majority of white males from agreeing with your decisions.

When you include someone in the decision making process they are far more likely to not complain about the decision.

White males aren't being actually silenced

 

[Zen_Arcade]

I don't think you understand the objection.

As a non-POC, you literally cannot have an informed opinion on the subject of the n word. You are not black.

I'm aware I'm not black, I also have repeatedly said that I personally don't need to be involved in discussing the subject. I didn't even bring it up. And we aren't in a thread that has the N word as it's focus. Someone asked me if there were white people who's input was valid to the discussion and I said yes. Because I don't think you need to be a part of a community to understand perspectives that come from it.

 

[K.Jack]

We can't form solidarity on economics issues because for centuries, poor and middle-class white people in this country overwhelmingly favor class warfare on the poor because they presume it'll stop lazy minorities from stealing money. The very thing most of the population has in common with one another is off the table because of racism, and that racism by and large isn't coming from inner city black folk; it's coming from suburban and rural whites who think they have more in common with Trump than they do their black neighbors a block away.

”I'll tell you what's at the bottom of it," he said. ”If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

- Lyndon B. Johnson

This is maybe the greatest observation in American history.

 

[Angelus Errare]

White males aren't being actually silenced

To them not being able to lead and dictate discussions is the same as being silenced

 

[Chmpocalypse]

The author reads like an oblivious upper class... "We invented insulin so forget about racism."

That said, if someone tells me my opinion is invalid because I am a white male I instantly see them as not intelligent enough to discuss the issues with me.

The problems of the country have to be addressed with the cooperation of the 70% majority of that population (male side and Im referring to Canada).

Shutting white males out of your discussions and decision making is a sure fire way to stop the majority of white males from agreeing with your decisions.

When you include someone in the decision making process they are far more likely to not complain about the decision.

Why, in the actual fuck, would people laboring under a white supremacist society invite those benefiting from that privilege to decide what to do about that privilege?

Do you not see that robbing the oppressed of their self-determination by insisting the beneficiaries of the oppressive system have a say is itself asserting white privilege?

 

[GKnight]

White males aren't being actually silenced

I didn't say they were but I have had that said to me and it elicits a strong eye rolling.

 

[lvl99 Pixel]

He just connected me to Hitler in the opening paragraph o_o

 

[excelsiorlef]

I didn't say they were but I have had that said to me and it elicits a strong eye rolling.

Ok.

But then you launched on a spiel about how we can't shut the white man out.

So.

 

[GKnight]

In reference to the above,my spiel was not about the white man being shut out, it was about solutions being more reliable when people work together, which is why I cant take seriously people who say white male as a dismissive in conversations.

As for white men being shut out, obviously white men still hold more power than they should in a fair and just society.

But the end goal is that, a fair and just society. To achieve a fair and just society we have to work together.

Why, in the actual fuck, would people laboring under a white supremacist society invite those benefiting from that privilege to decide what to do about that privilege?

Do you not see that robbing the oppressed of their self-determination by insisting the beneficiaries of the oppressive system have a say is itself asserting white privilege?

Because we live in reality, not fantasia?

How are you going to enact change without the help of the majority of the people in your country?

Also by saying that you are basically saying you think all white males want to maintain the status quo which couldn't be farther from the truth.

And dont get me wrong, dealing with white privilege is definitely an issue in this regard, but just because someone is white does not mean they cannot come up with creative, helpful and viable solutions to the issues groups of other races face.

The same way white people shouldn't put their heads in the sand when people of colour come up with viable and ingenious solutions to problems they are facing.

 

[finowns]

The author reads like an oblivious upper class... "We invented insulin so forget about racism."

That said, if someone tells me my opinion is invalid because I am a white male I instantly see them as not intelligent enough to discuss the issues with me.

The problems of the country have to be addressed with the cooperation of the 70% majority of that population (male side and Im referring to Canada).

Shutting white males out of your discussions and decision making is a sure fire way to stop the majority of white males from agreeing with your decisions.

When you include someone in the decision making process they are far more likely to not complain about the decision.

That has to be fairly rare in actual interaction in the world. Outside of a college or the internet I would be surprised if I got such a response. But it would also just signal that there isn't a conversation to be had.

 

[GrizzleBoy]

]

That has to be fairly rare in actual interaction in the world. Outside of a college or the internet I would be surprised if I got such a response. But it would also just signal that there isn't a conversation to be had.

I think there's a good reason why in hundreds of years, there's never been a consensus of "man we could stop this inequality if only minorities would let us join their communities and race discussions

For the obvious reasons of:

A:
Minorities excluding white people from race talks literally is not a thing on any meaningful way. White BLM protesters don't get told to go home cause nobody wants them. White people marching with civil rights activists weren't told to go home because nobody wants them. White people who genuinely campaign or support equality in any way are pretty much never turned away and the 1% of anecdotes isn't going to change that fact. The vast majority of the time people are called out on their racial background for ignorance or dismissiveness, usually from a viewpoint that there is no discussion to be had and that minorities are their own problem and everyone has the same opportunity etc etc etc.

Which leads to point,

B:
If the majority of the population actually ever got serious about ACKNOWLEDGING there is inequality ro be dealt with, let alone being any kind of interested in having discussions about it, to be able to be getting dismissed against their wishes in any meaningful way....were actually saying that minorities would turn that down and not rejoice?......the assertion from that mindset is that it's actually minorities fault that the majority can't understand them and won't push for equality with them, when in actuality there isn't any evidence that the majority are interested in that push for equality. Right now, simply getting the majority to even acknowledge there is an issue is the first step, but that would involve explaining how a system of supremacy toward one race affords privilege based on race, but we know what the reaction to that will be so.....



This article and all the "but why won't you engage though!?" Posts are an argument about nothing, for barely any reason, because this reality basically doesn't exist outside of thus thread.

 

[Sanojio]

Mhm. And that's exactly why I pay no heed to those who believe that economic status links people more than race. There are far too many people who believe that things like Black people using SNAP is somehow increasing the US's national debt and is a leading cause of it.
----
After the election, I remember seeing a ton of pieces on how "identity politics" cost democrats the election. That we should tone down the message of things like police reform. There was no consideration for how those articles could affect the morale of minorities. We're just expected to take it and bend.

And going back to the former point that I made, if a person is making a minority so uncomfortable that they don't want to talk to them, that's the biggest signal of self-reflection a person can get and more often than not they fail at that.

Coming up to someone who may have dealt with racial harassment that day and expecting and feeling entitled to debate about the n word or anything race related is insidious honestly. You can't approach someone with a certain attitude and expect them to respond cordially all the time. I've had too many encounters with white people who got offended when I just said: I don't want to talk about whatever racial thing they wanted to discuss atm. They literally lost their shit because I didn't want to engage with them.

Articles like the OP presented are extremely demoralizing to minorities and some can't see why.

what do you suggest to do ?

 

[digdug2k]

The author reads like an oblivious upper class... "We invented insulin so forget about racism."

That said, if someone tells me my opinion is invalid because I am a white male I instantly see them as not intelligent enough to discuss the issues with me.

The problems of the country have to be addressed with the cooperation of the 70% majority of that population (male side and Im referring to Canada).

Shutting white males out of your discussions and decision making is a sure fire way to stop the majority of white males from agreeing with your decisions.

When you include someone in the decision making process they are far more likely to not complain about the decision.

Yeah, white males have lots of voices in the game. I'm sure you think you have something totally unique and amazing to contribute. You don't. Neither do I. You're basically standing in a room with a thousand white guys and one woman, and when the woman says "Hey, that's enough. We don't need to hear from more white guys!" you're saying "Wait! My opinion matters too."

 

[GrizzleBoy]

what do you suggest to do ?

Youre not going to get an answer with such an open question.

Do about what, specifically?

 

[Hero]

What was the subtext? "Shut up," or "listen," or "you are inherently bad" or what?



That fucking guy couldn't handle being black for 2.4 seconds.

It was kind of along the lines of "haha you're white so your opinion means less." It was a social setting and it was totally not worth the time, effort, or energy to correct them or delve further. I just said I'm sorry you feel that way, said it was nice meeting them, and moved along.

 

[finowns]

Yeah, white males have lots of voices in the game. I'm sure you think you have something totally unique and amazing to contribute. You don't. Neither do I. You're basically standing in a room with a thousand white guys and one woman, and when the woman says "Hey, that's enough. We don't need to hear from more white guys!" you're saying "Wait! My opinion matters too."

Using your metaphor the solution isn't getting 'white guys' to stop talking it would be to get more women in the room.

Edit-- Now don't come back with room occupancy size

 

[Miles X]

The article in the OP is BS. I will add though, I don't like villianizing entire groups of people 'whites lol' 'white males' I don't think it gets us anywhere and can only imagine it teaches young girls and young POC to look badly at them. I see it a lot here anyway, I don't get why people don't just say 'racists' ... those are the scum that need to be targeted ..

Also as a gay guy I welcome straight people having an opinion on my/lgbt struggles. Just saying.

 

[Psychoward]

I didn't say they were but I have had that said to me and it elicits a strong eye rolling.

Again, nobody has actually provided context for this so until proven otherwise I'm gonna assume it was justified.

 

[GKnight]

Yeah, white males have lots of voices in the game. I'm sure you think you have something totally unique and amazing to contribute. You don't. Neither do I. You're basically standing in a room with a thousand white guys and one woman, and when the woman says "Hey, that's enough. We don't need to hear from more white guys!" you're saying "Wait! My opinion matters too."

This mostly happened in University where there were 80% or more female students in the class and a good proportion whom were people of colour.

Thankfully the teachers of my women centered courses all discouraged that kind of language as it just kills discussion and really doesn't lead to any kind of intellectual debate.

Also you re an individual with unique capabilities and your opinion does matter.

 

[pablito]

LMAO this article literally said if it wasn't for white people we'd be doing the Nazi salute.

See the thing about Nazis is...

Spoiler

They're white.

 

[excelsiorlef]

LMAO this article literally said if it wasn't for white people we'd be doing the Nazi salute.

See the thing about Nazis is...

Spoiler

They're white.

And like really proud of it

 

[Darth Ghandi]

This mostly happened in University where there were 80% or more female students in the class and a good proportion whom were people of colour.

Thankfully the teachers of my women centered courses all discouraged that kind of language as it just kills discussion and really doesn't lead to any kind of intellectual debate.

Also you re an individual with unique capabilities and your opinion does matter.

Plenty of white people understand and partake discussions regarding race.
This picture you are painting of white people not being welcome is false.

What I think you and many white people get hurt by is if you get called out for shitty views.
Cause white dudes aren't used to not being in the center of the world, and it irks them to no end if you point they may not be the white saviours they think they are.
It irks them to point that their lives are playing it on easy.

 

[GrizzleBoy]

The article in the OP is BS. I will add though, I don't like villianizing entire groups of people 'whites lol' 'white males' I don't think it gets us anywhere and can only imagine it teaches young girls and young POC to look badly at them. I see it a lot here anyway, I don't get why people don't just say 'racists' ... those are the scum that need to be targeted ..

Also as a gay guy I welcome straight people having an opinion on my/lgbt struggles. Just saying.

Agree article is BS.

Also agree with not villianizing.

That said, the problem with racism is not just racists, but racists and their supporters.

It's fine targeting racists, but if "non racists" will support racists, stay silent about the racism and also get upset that someone considers their support and vote for a racist person or party as a reflection of whether they actually care about racism or not, then "targeting" only overt racism and racists is quite literally pointless.

To quote MLK:
"History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people"

"Good people" in this instance being those that wouldn't do anything directly racist, but are the ones who give the racists the power. Trump referenced his support from the "silent majority" during the campaign.

The majority of America are silent to the racism.

You don't get an entire racist major political party, a law system that in pretty much every study in history agrees targets minorities unfairly, and the worst of every kind of bigotry rolled into a person and hoisted into the white house without the support or apathy of the majority of Americans.

It's like being asked to knock down a building owned by the KKK by only taking off the roof tiles. You can remove the roof, but the rest of the building will still easily support a new roof without much effort. The people who want that structure to exist will just build a new roof.

You can't just keeping removing the roof. The roof is actually the easiest part to access and remove.

So how do we get people to remove the actual support structures?

First youd have to establish that unfairness is taking place in the first instance, which is a monumental task in its own right.

People would then have to acknowledge their privilege and also agree that it's unfair. Again, another monumental task.

America just elected a "fuck everyone except white persons" president.
That's what America thinks about the existence of racial privilege and fairness at the moment. There isn't an appetite to remove it, theres an appetite to embolden it more than anything.

So in conclusion, if we want to actually tackle the problem, talking only about people with white hoods and swastika tattoos isn't gonna do a thing.

Until the majority of America decides that maybe the countless studies of systemic racism, general inequality, racist political parties and leaders are something they wont tolerate to such a high level that it's just a way of life, well just have to wait. Apparently.

 

[luchadork]

Agree article is BS.

Also agree with not villianizing.

That said, the problem with racism is not just racists, but racists and their supporters.

It's fine targeting racists, but if "non racists" will support racists, stay silent about the racism and also get upset that someone considers their support and vote for a racist person or party as a reflection of whether they actually care about racism or not, then "targeting" only overt racism and racists is quite literally pointless.

To quote MLK:
"History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people"

"Good people" in this instance being those that wouldn't do anything directly racist, but are the ones who give the racists the power. Trump referenced his support from the "silent majority" during the campaign.

The majority of America are silent to the racism.

You don't get an entire racist major political party, a law system that in pretty much every study in history agrees targets minorities unfairly, and the worst of every kind of bigotry rolled into a person and hoisted into the white house without the support or apathy of the majority of Americans.

It's like being asked to knock down a building owned by the KKK by only taking off the roof tiles. You can remove the roof, but the rest of the building will still easily support a new roof without much effort. The people who want that structure to exist will just build a new roof.

You can't just keeping removing the roof. The roof is actually the easiest part to access and remove.

So how do we get people to remove the actual support structures?

First youd have to establish that unfairness is taking place in the first instance, which is a monumental task in its own right.

People would then have to acknowledge their privilege and also agree that it's unfair. Again, another monumental task.

America just elected a "fuck everyone except white persons" president.
That's what America thinks about the existence of racial privilege and fairness at the moment. There isn't an appetite to remove it, theres an appetite to embolden it more than anything.

So in conclusion, if we want to actually tackle the problem, talking only about people with white hoods and swastika tattoos isn't gonna do a thing.

Until the majority of America decides that maybe the countless studies of systemic racism, general inequality, racist political parties and leaders are something they wont tolerate to such a high level that it's just a way of life, well just have to wait. Apparently.

good luck with that. you want white people to accept blame for being born a certain skin colour, to admit that they have a great life (even if they dont), and be willing to give up some sort of power (even if they are just some depressed schmuck sitting in a cubicle typing away into a spreadsheet). and you want them to do that without offering any opinions you disagree with. and while also ignoring a large part of them because they were stupid enough voted a certain way in one particular election.

 

[GrizzleBoy]

good luck with that. you want white people to accept blame for being born a certain skin colour, to admit that they have a great life (even if they dont), and be willing to give up some sort of power (even if they are just some depressed schmuck sitting in a cubicle typing away into a spreadsheet). and you want them to do that without offering any opinions you disagree with. and while also ignoring a large part of them because they were stupid enough voted a certain way in one particular election.

If that's what you think I'm saying, then sure.

 

[Angelus Errare]

good luck with that. you want white people to accept blame for being born a certain skin colour, to admit that they have a great life (even if they dont), and be willing to give up some sort of power (even if they are just some depressed schmuck sitting in a cubicle typing away into a spreadsheet). and you want them to do that without offering any opinions you disagree with. and while also ignoring a large part of them because they were stupid enough voted a certain way in one particular election.

Talk about reading without comprehension

 

[GKnight]

Plenty of white people understand and partake discussions regarding race.
This picture you are painting of white people not being welcome is false.

What I think you and many white people get hurt by is if you get called out for shitty views.
Cause white dudes aren't used to not being in the center of the world, and it irks them to no end if you point they may not be the white saviours they think they are.
It irks them to point that their lives are playing it on easy.

Please explain how believing that everyone should work together to achieve common goals is a shitty view.

It has nothing to do with saviours of any race. Any person can come up with a good idea at any time it doesn't matter where they are from.

 

[guggnichso]

He's not wrong that "White Male" shouldn't be used as a pejorative, but that's all he gets right. What people mean use the words "White Male", they're doing so to shame a person into recognizing how privileged they are and lead them to take action. This writer is just too stupid/self-absorbed to realize this, as evidenced by how he identifies as a "meninist"

Also, whataboutismstartedintheUSSR.jpeg

Well, it IS at least used as an easy way to try to shut down discussion or paint people you don’t agree with as inferior or not discussion worthy by some people. Even on this forum here. The text linked in the OP however is just stupid bullshit.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

If you think "White Males" is a phrase used outside of intellectual circles and debates you're already a lost cause. Never in the entirety of my life have I engaged in a discussion with white people and was like "you know the real problem is white males wanna be the certain of attention. Fuck white people". Like jesus christ, it's almost offensive to me even hearing people bitch about this like their everyday interactions actually occur like that.

I'm more likely to roll my damn eyes and drop a topic than engage in a discussion with my peers and friends where I actually need to even address "white people" or "white males" as a relevant topic. That being said, it shouldn't be offensive that being white affords you some different experiences that may make you lack perspective. Like I'ma guy. When women explain certain aspects of bar culture or even work place experince I'm not trying to pretend like I could fully understand cause I cant. That's doesn't mean I dont educate myself. It just means like, accept there is shit you may not truly get. That isn't offensive. That isn't a call out.

 

[Always-honest]

Please speak for yourself, person.

 

[Chmpocalypse]

good luck with that. you want white people to accept blame for being born a certain skin colour, to admit that they have a great life (even if they dont), and be willing to give up some sort of power (even if they are just some depressed schmuck sitting in a cubicle typing away into a spreadsheet). and you want them to do that without offering any opinions you disagree with. and while also ignoring a large part of them because they were stupid enough voted a certain way in one particular election.

It's clear from your response that you don't understand what white privilege is. It's not "having a great life". It's the advantage you get that others don't simply because you're white - and yes, every single white person in America is afforded that privilege. It's been discussed and explained enough in this thread alone that your inability to admit its existence is willful at this point.

Pretending it doesn't exist has no bearing on the fact that it does.

 

[GrizzleBoy]

South Park worked out this issue a loooooooooooong time ago.

If more poeople entered debates on topics they don't have any experience of in this way, things would be a lot easier.

It's clear from your response that you don't understand what white privilege is. It's not "having a great life". It's the advantage you get that others don't simply because you're white - and yes, every single white person in America is afforded that privilege. It's been discussed and explained enough in this thread alone that your inability to admit its existence is willful at this point.

Pretending it doesn't exist has no bearing on the fact that it does.

Like I said earlier.

Its like a disabled person wanting to bring up the issue of equal rights for disabled people by highlighting how a world overly designed for the benefit of able bodied people, puts disabled people at a disadvantage.

Only to be met with "WHAT so you think it's my fault you were born like that? MY JOB SUCKS! Fuck do you mean I have advantages in life you don't? Able bodied people are suffering right now and you want us to think about YOU? You think you can try and tell me just because I'm able bodied and you're not gives me more opportunities and less things to consider in my daily life and I'm gonna want to help you?

Good luck with THAT!

Or to be even more specific (replaced "white people" with "able bodied peoole")

Originally Posted by luchadork

good luck with that. you want able bodied people to accept blame for being born without a disability , to admit that they have a great life (even if they dont), and be willing to give up some sort of power (even if they are just some depressed schmuck sitting in a cubicle typing away into a spreadsheet). and you want them to do that without offering any opinions you disagree with. and while also ignoring a large part of them because they were stupid enough voted a certain way in one particular election.

That's basically what it is. It's like me deciding that disabled people not being able to enjoy the privileges able bodied people docouldn't possibly be a thing and is basically an insult, because I lost my job last week. I am jobless, therefore how can disabled people having less opportunities than me be a problem or even exist?

That's the level of disconnect we're gonna need to break through before we can ever get to breaking down major equality barriers.

"Good luck with that" indeed!

 

[Nepenthe]

good luck with that. you want white people to accept blame for being born a certain skin colour, to admit that they have a great life (even if they dont), and be willing to give up some sort of power (even if they are just some depressed schmuck sitting in a cubicle typing away into a spreadsheet). and you want them to do that without offering any opinions you disagree with. and while also ignoring a large part of them because they were stupid enough voted a certain way in one particular election.

And this is why white supremacy will never be solved. Too many white people who take personal offense to the fact that there exists a problem only they are truly capable of fixing because they think acknowledgement of the problem means they're bad people or that they'll lose out on something. They think their theoretical souls and the feeling of power of others are worth more than the actual needless suffering of their fellow citizens.

Thanks for nothing.

 

[freeofgreed]

We can't form solidarity on economics issues because for centuries, poor and middle-class white people in this country overwhelmingly favor class warfare on the poor because they presume it'll stop lazy minorities from stealing money. The very thing most of the population has in common with one another is off the table because of racism, and that racism by and large isn't coming from inner city black folk; it's coming from suburban and rural whites who think they have more in common with Trump than they do their black neighbors a block away.

Damn good post.

EDIT:

And this is why white supremacy will never be solved. Too many white people who take personal offense to the fact that there exists a problem only they are truly capable of fixing because they think acknowledgement of the problem means they're bad people or that they'll lose out on something. They think their theoretical souls and the feeling of power of others are worth more than the actual needneedless suffering of their fellow citizens.

Thanks for nothing.

Damn another good one. Said exactly what I was thinking.

 

[Psychoward]

good luck with that. you want white people to accept blame for being born a certain skin colour, to admit that they have a great life (even if they dont), and be willing to give up some sort of power (even if they are just some depressed schmuck sitting in a cubicle typing away into a spreadsheet). and you want them to do that without offering any opinions you disagree with. and while also ignoring a large part of them because they were stupid enough voted a certain way in one particular election.

Oh wow big surprise you don't understand white privilege

 

[luchadork]

And this is why white supremacy will never be solved. Too many white people who take personal offense to the fact that there exists a problem only they are truly capable of fixing because they think acknowledgement of the problem means they're bad people or that they'll lose out on something. They think their theoretical souls and the feeling of power of others are worth more than the actual needneedless suffering of their fellow citizens.

so you agree with me? at least in so far as this 'solution' has no chance in hell.

 

[cartographer]

Yeah, white males have lots of voices in the game. I'm sure you think you have something totally unique and amazing to contribute. You don't. Neither do I. You're basically standing in a room with a thousand white guys and one woman, and when the woman says "Hey, that's enough. We don't need to hear from more white guys!" you're saying "Wait! My opinion matters too."

The idea that sometimes my opinion doesn't matter or is inherently less informed or lacking perspective is something I just didn't understand for a long time. Which is just plain crazy, honestly. It's such a simple thing but it's a huge barrier because of society reinforcing that privilege on every level.

 

[old manatee]

 

[freeofgreed]

so you agree with me? at least in so far as this 'solution' has no chance in hell.

So what is your solution?

 

[Nepenthe]

so you agree with me? at least in so far as this 'solution' has no chance in hell.

I agree with you only insofar as white America is too incapable of not being selfish and/or apathetic for just, like, a week to bother with implementing it, and that selfishness and apathy is the result of a need to hold on to the worldview that says racism is only an act of deliberate, conscious evil and the inequalities present in American society either don't exist or are the result of the moral failures of minorities, because to believe the reality staring them in the face pops their bubbles and exposes them to the horror that perhaps they're not the blessed little children they really think they are, that they're fine with letting their fellow Americans suffer as a result of their own need to feel comfortable and special in the eyes of the rich and God, and that this desire for comfort is inherently worthy of condemnation as well.

However, it's nonetheless the only solution that's actually viable. So yeah.

 

[GrizzleBoy]

So what is your solution?

Well, if acknowledging the fact that inequality exists Ina way that advantages them and disadvantages others and deciding to make that not be the reality anymore is not the solution.....because people won't stand for it,, ,

Then the solution must be to ignore the fact that inequality exists in a way that advantages them and disadvantages others, but somehow find a way to make that not be the reality, despite the fact acknowledging that there's a reality that needs changing in the first place is off the table.

Essentially, the problem is, how do you make someone pay to fix a problem with their fridge that's causing your power to keep cutting out, if they don't believe there is a problem with their fridge. And you're not allowed to tell them there is a problem wit their fridge and that it's affecting your electricity.

So, magic. We do it with magic.

 

[Nepenthe]

The implied solution to the fridge problem is that it's your job to pay for the (supposedly) broken fridge if you want it fixed so badly.

Which coincidentally is basically the shit white people tell minorities all the time, in various ways.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

A Canadian invented insulin. If the author is going to separate people by their achievements then he can at least acknowledge it was a Canadian.

 

[Chmpocalypse]

South Park worked out this issue a loooooooooooong time ago.

If more poeople entered debates on topics they don't have any experience of in this way, things would be a lot easier.



Like I said earlier.

Its like a disabled person wanting to bring up the issue of equal rights for disabled people by highlighting how a world overly designed for the benefit of able bodied people, puts disabled people at a disadvantage.

Only to be met with "WHAT so you think it's my fault you were born like that? MY JOB SUCKS! Fuck do you mean I have advantages in life you don't? Able bodied people are suffering right now and you want us to think about YOU? You think you can try and tell me just because I'm able bodied and you're not gives me more opportunities and less things to consider in my daily life and I'm gonna want to help you?

Good luck with THAT!

Or to be even more specific:


That's basically what it is. It's like me deciding that disabled people not being able to enjoy the privileges able bodied people docouldn't possibly be a thing and is basically an insult, because I lost my job last week. I am jobless, therefore how can disabled people having less opportunities than me be a problem or even exist?

That's the level of disconnect we're gonna need to break through before we can ever get to breaking down major equality barriers.

"Good luck with that" indeed!

Yep. Your analogy is exactly right. It's a great way of condensing and illustrating the point.

 

[Cyframe]

what do you suggest to do ?

Not writing Op-Ed's like this is a start and someone reevaluating themselves if they do this:

The author reads like an oblivious upper class... "We invented insulin so forget about racism."

That said, if someone tells me my opinion is invalid because I am a white male I instantly see them as not intelligent enough to discuss the issues with me.

The problems of the country have to be addressed with the cooperation of the 70% majority of that population (male side and Im referring to Canada).

Shutting white males out of your discussions and decision making is a sure fire way to stop the majority of white males from agreeing with your decisions.

When you include someone in the decision making process they are far more likely to not complain about the decision.

So while this poster understands some underlying issues with the article. They immediately get defensive and gives the impression that minority groups haven't lead the charge when it comes to intersectional efforts and go's into a gaslighting tangent. I don't want to have a conversation with someone who is giving the impression that they don't have a good grasp on the material.

BLM is on par with the KKK in the eyes of too many white people, and they were certainly invited to take a stand against things like police brutality but refuse. All Lives Matter people don't care and BLM brought cases where white people killed by police didn't get attention to the front.

Maybe this is a better analogy for some people in this thread. Imagine eating dinner, someone you haven't invited and you don't know sits down and begins eating and asks you to pass the chicken. You would feel shocked at something like that, but this very common sense scenario occurs all too often with the white populace and they are blind to the imposition they are putting on others when they give very intrusive opinions in intraracial conversations (eg, n-word conversations).

I also want to highlight this post:

If you think "White Males" is a phrase used outside of intellectual circles and debates you're already a lost cause. Never in the entirety of my life have I engaged in a discussion with white people and was like "you know the real problem is white males wanna be the certain of attention. Fuck white people". Like jesus christ, it's almost offensive to me even hearing people bitch about this like their everyday interactions actually occur like that.

I'm more likely to roll my damn eyes and drop a topic than engage in a discussion with my peers and friends where I actually need to even address "white people" or "white males" as a relevant topic. That being said, it shouldn't be offensive that being white affords you some different experiences that may make you lack perspective. Like I'ma guy. When women explain certain aspects of bar culture or even work place experince I'm not trying to pretend like I could fully understand cause I cant. That's doesn't mean I dont educate myself. It just means like, accept there is shit you may not truly get. That isn't offensive. That isn't a call out.

 

[GKnight]

So while this poster understands some underlying issues with the article. They immediately get defensive and gives the impression that minority groups haven't lead the charge when it comes to intersectional efforts and go's into a gaslighting tangent. I don't want to have a conversation with someone who is giving the impression that they don't have a good grasp on the material.

I also want to highlight this post:

In no way have I said anything about minority groups and intersectionality. You are looking for a reason to be offended if that's what you see. All I said is everyone can have a valuable input.

I'm addressing specifically anyone who would disregard the view of a white person in a conversation because of their race. I'm not saying this is a large population, but it does exist in a small numbers.

I would say the same thing to anyone who would disregard someone's opinion on any matter because of their race and/or gender.

You say I need to reevaluate myself but if you actually discussed it with me I'm sure a large majority of our opinions on this matter would coincide. That is where you have to get to have a productive conversation.

There is no point to this thread existing if it is just hundreds of people saying bad things about the writer of the article even though his article was ridiculous. So I posted my opinion based on actual experience. It's not defensive from me so there is no reason for you to attack my opinion in return.

Imagine eating dinner, someone you haven't invited and you don't know sits down and begins eating and asks you to pass the chicken. You would feel shocked at something like that, but this very common sense scenario occurs all too often with the white populace).

I love analogies but this is kind of silly because it seems like it infers that just because someone is white it means they aren't close to people who happen to be people of colour be they family members or close friends etc. Obviously if you are close with somebody you will want to help with their causes, it doesn't even have anything to do with being an 'ally' that's just being a friend.
I'm not going to touch on the n-word thing because if a white person is doing that they aren't even worth talking to.

That said I understand your point from a sociological perspective, there are a lot of culturally insensitive white people out there.
But that's sociological. On a psychological level there are many individuals who understand and only want to help, and I'm sure you know this and other posters have commented on it as well.