EmCeeGramr
Member
help i'm dyign
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Breaking Bad - Season 5, Part 2 - The Final Eight Episodes - Sundays on AMC - OT2
- Thread starter Cornballer
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help i'm dyign
He didn't want all these bad things to happen and yet he put into motion every single one of them. That doesn't make Walt less "evil," just an idiot and a spineless hypocrite.
Totally agree with your posts. If Walter White were completely unsympathetic in every way, the show would be terrible. Our relationship with him is meant to be much more nuanced than that, which is the entire reason Gillian cast Cranston, who can be likeable even as he does miserable things. All this team stuff seemingly started as parody of Twilight fandom, but the parody element seems to have disintegrated for some.
On top of that, one doesn't have to approve of a character's actions to enjoy the character. And enjoying a character who does heinous things has no correlation to one's actual sense of morality. I feel like I'm stating the incredibly obvious, but some of these discussions make me wonder.
The One Who Knocks
Member
I have solved this I believe.
Jesse suddenly enters the Neo-Nazi meth lab. There, he sees before him, sniggering, Gus, Mike, and Jane standing before him, cloaked in the darkness opposite him. Jesse gasps "What's the deal yo?" and turns around to find that Meth Damon is not beside him.
"Join us", they chant in agony.
"No, no, no" Jesse, cries, backing away, being blocked by the corpse-cold metallic gate behind him which has the sole light in the room beaming towards it. He looks up towards the light and catches a brief glimpse of Gale smiling before Major Gale rides away on his rocketship into the light. Jesse finds himself slowly being dragged by the ghosts into the darkness; unable to resist, he finds himself in a void, unable to see anything. He stumbles over what he realises is Tuco's ghost corpse as it tells him Jesse's ass is "tight tight tight" and eventually he becomes very chilly. Before him, a blue throne sits before him, and he shuts his eyes, unwilling to look up at the top. Eventually, a rabid yet easily controllable dog bites him; it's Todd! He runs to the top of the throne and Walter pets him (Ghost Skyler is also a dog since that's a popular opinion), with two large shards of meth protruding from the sides of his head; and ice flames spring up all around him inside the darknes.
"Looks like Mister White is the devil Jesse; you never should have got involved with him maybe" Ghost Gale whispers to Jesse from the shadows.
We are then left to contemplate whether the entire show was Jesse's metaphorical journey into hell after he died as a teenager following Walter's relentless demeaning mockery of him in high school (and failing him), his parent's rejection, Jane stealing all of his sweats, Tuco hitting him with his school bag, Todd physically assaulting to him and tying him to a tree using his underwear, Skyler refusing to date him, and Gale being friendly to him but Jesse had to abandon him due to Gale being considered aloof.
Yep, that's a big one indeed. Skyler's death is still a possibility before Walter returns (but not likely) as Lydia is going to be...displeased (side note: Jesse was never considered as much as Skyler was since the jacket was also considered Todd but yes, the jacket's irrelevant now).
Walter White is completely unsympathetic. That doesn't make the show bad, it makes the show what it is. If there's one thing that this series is about, it's about Walt's lies—and the fact is, at the end of the line, he's the only one left believing his lies. That doesn't make him sympathetic, but it does make him a very compelling character.
Is Humbert Humbert a completely unsympathetic and unlikable character? Yes. And just like Walt, his number one defining characteristic is that he is a liar. Likability, sympathy... I couldn't care less. Give me a compelling character and write them well, and compelling stories will always follow.
Is Humbert Humbert a completely unsympathetic and unlikable character? Yes. And just like Walt, his number one defining characteristic is that he is a liar. Likability, sympathy... I couldn't care less. Give me a compelling character and write them well, and compelling stories will always follow.
Kidnap his baby and a few moments later put his baby back to safety. He ran over two drugdealers about to kill Jesse. Drugdealers who shot a kid. He did not try to frame his brother in law, he was trying to blackmail them into leaving him alone. If he wanted to frame them he would have send the tape to the DEA.
Also the only reason he ordered a hit on Jesse was because he was threatening his family. He would have let him go with that guy from Saul. Its actually what he wanted for Jesse to have a fresh start away from the misery and decay.
Also a few tears? How are you watching this thing anyway? That phonecall scene of Walt trying to act delusion and anger whilst holding back tears will go down in tv-history as one of the greatest scenes ever and you just described it as "just a few tears"
CambriaRising
Member
Flynn is the real monster here, filing a false police report.
But, what can you expect from the Breakfast Kingpin of ABQ?
But, what can you expect from the Breakfast Kingpin of ABQ?
Dark_AnNiaLatOr
Member
HO LEE FUCKING SHIIIIIIIIIIIT, FUCKING FUCKASS THAT EPISODE! : my immediate reaction
lol never
also when he said to Jesse the truth about Jane i'm thinking that it was his way to prepare him for what has to come
hell not that i'm trying to figure what the fuck is going to happen next, but now that Jesse is still alive, he'll be the one to kill Walt
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
Man, that shot with the old pair of pants is gonna make one HELL of a good blooper, you just know Bryan did something hilarious there.
I think Walt may periodically check in with Saul, and that's how he might learn something that leads to him buying an M60.
That seems pretty likely, too.
I can't see Jesse dying at this point. He's come too far and suffered too much. He has very big reasons to see through this alive and make sure that Walt's reign as Heisenberg comes to a true end. That's why I gravitate toward Jesse escaping and Walt putting an end once and for all to his meth empire.
I'd almost love to see a scene with Walt just sitting by himself somewhere after he's killed Lydia and the Nazi bunch, then Jesse shows up. They talk for a little bit then Jesse shoots him. Jesse ponders for a moment and walks away. Cut to black.
civilstrife
Member
Wow. Just wow. Some people are clearly watching an entirely different show. And their show is pretty inferior to ya know... The show.
well said
2 hour later, still shaking here lol
I think everybody recognizes that Walt is a great character, who drives a lot of story. He's probably one of the best conceived characters ever.
It's when you've got people saying "I HOPE WALT KILLS THAT SNITCH JESSE" or "Skyler is a BITCH" or "everybody on this show is grey so we cannot distinguish between shades or even consider Walt a bad guy" - ie, interpreting the story in ridiculous ways that the writers clearly never considered to suggest a bizarre morality behind Walt's actions - that others get a little irked.
Anybody who thinks that Skyler is a bitch hasn't been watching the show.
EmCeeGramr
Member
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You don't think a fugitive drug dealer/murderer, trying to talk his way out of Hank being dead, trying to get his family to go on the run with him and starting a new life is bad? Kidnapping his own daughter with the intention of disappearing with her, stealing her from her family for the foreseeable future (before thinking better of it)?
If you only look at things from his perspective it's easy to feel sympathetic, I mean he just wants to keep the family together, to keep things normal and move on, to get a fresh start. But you need to realize how delusional Walt is at this point, and looking at it from any outside perspective shows how bad nearly all of Walt's actions are, outside of begging for Hank's life, before the phone call to Skyler.
Cornballer
Member
I don't think Kenny is his son, but he does wear the 'stache well. I imagine he'll get a little more screen time in the final two.
Just to show even we're always ten steps behind the writers.
Walt actually admitting that he is at least partly responsible for everything that happened would be the first step towards making him in any way sympathetic. That's the kind of realization he'd need to come for it to actually make any sense for him to come back for Jesse, who he currently entirely blames for Hank's death and everything going to shit.
You are assuming everyone that is #teamwalt thinks he's a sympathetic hero. Some support Walt because he's a villain. In that case him telling Jesse about Jane was awesome.
i just watched it, i don't even know what i'm trying to say :<
@Skyler is awesome wtf
Exactly.
It actually makes me wonder how some people watch films or series with the focus on the anti-hero at all.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
It ain't redemption by any stretch, but it does show that there is a shred of humanity in there.
TheSadRanger
Banned
Yup. Here's a slightly clearer cap:
The belt's a lot clearer in motion.
I thought it would have been great if he had rolled it to the house of the janitor from S1 who got wrongfully accused of stealing the High School's chemistry supplies that Walt took to cook meth.
Walt's complete refusal to accept that his actions have consequences doesn't make him sympathetic in any way. I'm just baffled by people suggesting him begging for Hank's life is somehow redeeming him as a character. He dug Hank's grave long ago, but when Walt suddenly realizes what this entails, he frantically backpedals because he's a coward. Hell, the episode couldn't be any more blunt about this—Hank didn't beg, Walt did.
That's not humanity, that's not "good", that's just hypocrisy. He wanted all the perks of being a drug kingpin but wasn't prepared to also accept the costs of getting what he wanted.
That's not humanity, that's not "good", that's just hypocrisy. He wanted all the perks of being a drug kingpin but wasn't prepared to also accept the costs of getting what he wanted.
ItAintEasy
Member
Damn. That episode. This is why shows need to end when they are ready to end and on the writer's terms. I've never wanted to see "the next episode" of a series more....and I get that feeling every week I watch. This last season has been one hell of a punctuation mark on a great ride of a show.
Why shouldn't he "talk his way out of Hank being dead?" He had no idea that Hank would show up and did everything in his power to save him once he did.
Skyler is literally just as culpable in Hank's death as Walter is.
cubicle47b
Member
Enabler!
Seriously.
But i have to be honest here. For the first few seconds of that phonecall i thought oh my god he's gone completely insane now. And then it hit me the same time it hit Skyler.
And i teared up.
Like a man i must say.
Hank's final word's to Walt really mirrors his first toast to Walt at the party of the series pilot. But the contrast in the 2nd part of both quotes is devastating.
Hank's last words to Walt carried a deep, deep disappointment in Walt, mixed with some genuine pity for his naivete. Doesn't matter where your heart is, Walt, the shit you've done cannot be fixed.
RIP Hank
Especially considering his final words to Walt are a response to Walt's plea (also from his "heart"!) to spare Hank by offering up the money. Hank's knows he's a dead man. Gomie's corpse is next to him. He's looking at Walt, who's thinking he can actually still straighten out everything with his money and good intentions. Even though all that's happened is the result of Walt's actions.
Hank's last words to Walt carried a deep, deep disappointment in Walt, mixed with some genuine pity for his naivete. Doesn't matter where your heart is, Walt, the shit you've done cannot be fixed.
RIP Hank
EmCeeGramr
Member
This is it.
This is What Team Walt Actually Believes: The Post.
Gild this post and mount it in a place where the people gather, so that we may never forget.
No.
She isn't.
She's done bad things. But not nearly as bad as Walt.
It's like some of you guys are incapable of making distinctions.
Skyler's world came to an end when Marie informed her of Walt's arrest.
For a good while, Skyler came to terms with the fact she was an accomplice to her husband. She even confronted her worst fear -- telling Walt Jr.
The moment Walt walked in the house, Skyler was handed a second chance to choose good, and damn did she ever.
For a good while, Skyler came to terms with the fact she was an accomplice to her husband. She even confronted her worst fear -- telling Walt Jr.
The moment Walt walked in the house, Skyler was handed a second chance to choose good, and damn did she ever.
But even then it wasn't his fault that he was caught or that he was going to get punished. In his mind it was all Jesse.
EmCeeGramr
Member
It is pretty crazy. I'd say that a large part of that is testament to how well she and Cranston have played their characters, as well as the writers doing such a great job with them. But I think it's also that some people are incapable of rational thought.
He was protecting his mother. I know it's only Skylar, but any son would do the same for their mother, it's instinct. Admittedly, though, I did still want to punch him. He may be the most innocent out of every character in the show, but he's preventing #TeamWalt from walking away as the winner.
I share the 'HOLY FUCKBALLS' response to this episode that many had.
Also
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12HZ6IQvo0k
Also
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12HZ6IQvo0k
timetokill
Banned
That's possible, though maybe a little forced. I doubt Saul would be keeping tabs on the White family, but maybe Walt paid him to keep the info flowing to him so he could ensure their future and live as a father vicariously through that info.
Yeah, I don't see Jesse dying either. Just like I felt like Hank's time had come up, I feel like Jesse's opportunities to die have passed him by. I think he makes it out, but the big question is: does he make it out as Jesse, or does he turn into a cold, black shell that ends up carrying on the empire that Walt is now setting out to destroy?
Walt's confession about Jane, along with the deal with Brock, could end up destroying that thread of humanity tying Jesse together, and in killing Todd (seems likely) he could finally snap. It would be the last corruption by Walt, finally turning Jesse into the meth kingpin he always pretended to be at the beginning, and a truly tragic arc for his character.
In that sense, we could be seeing Walt going back to take down the nazis, but come to realize the nazis aren't in charge and haven't been for some time. It's Jesse, in all the glory that Walt built for him. He's become the ultimate monster Walt has unleashed upon the world.
I don't expect that to happen, but it would provide one last mega-twist for the writers
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