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Breaking Bad - Season 5, Part 2 - The Final Eight Episodes - Sundays on AMC - OT2

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J

jtb

Banned
Azula said:
Sure, I understand the rationale of why she did it. But it doesn't change the fact that - there was still a better choice that could have been made, and wasn't. That is a theme you see throughout the show. Walt should have listened to Jesse in the arcade room, instead of killing Gale - they should have went to the DEA, and took a plea deal by giving up Gus.

And so I go back to the scene where Walt was willing to turn himself in, and Skyler encourages him not to. I mean think about that. Walt, was actually willing to turn himself in. That a was pretty big moment in the series, I never thought Walt was capable of this. I figured with the arc of Walt, he was beyond that sort of thing. That he would rather die, then let himself be taken in by the cops. That his ego/hubris and his need for control, would never allow him to consider that a viable option.

Yet here we are. And he's willing to turn himself in. Even in the episode before this one, he would rather go in handcuffs, then fight his brother in law.

Yes, Walt is evil. Of course. But we have to acknowledge these other aspects of Walt. It's what makes him interesting. That even has lines he won't cross.
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I agree, to a certain extent. Inaction and its consequences is a big recurring theme in this series, Walt and Jane comes to mind. Skylar thinks that she can maintain the facade of the status quo up, despite the glaring fact that it's built on blood and illegally acquired money.

Having said that, I don't really agree with the whole crossing lines bit. He has lines he thinks he won't cross, lines that he doesn't want to cross, but he doesn't realize that every action he has ever taken in this series has placed his family in extreme danger. His brother in law is a DEA agent ffs, it's not like this is a huge leap in logic to expect that the two might cross paths. Not to mention illegal drug production isn't exactly the safest career choice for any family, period. Skylar believed her own lies when she tried to maintain the status quo, but Walt has been believing his own lies all series long. He thinks he can control the consequences of his actions, but that's only because he refuses to see all the consequences.
 
M

Mononoke

Banned
jtb said:
I agree, to a certain extent. Inaction and its consequences is a big recurring theme in this series, Walt and Jane comes to mind. Skylar thinks that she can maintain the facade of the status quo up, despite the glaring fact that it's built on blood and illegally acquired money.

Having said that, I don't really agree with the whole crossing lines bit. He has lines he thinks he won't cross, lines that he doesn't want to cross, but he doesn't realize that every action he has ever taken in this series has placed his family in extreme danger. His brother in law is a DEA agent ffs, it's not like this is a huge leap in logic to expect that the two might cross paths. Not to mention illegal drug production isn't exactly the safest career choice for any family, period. Skylar believed her own lies when she tried to maintain the status quo, but Walt has been believing his own lies all series long.
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So why didn't he just kill Hank? I believe family was definitely a line he never would cross.
 
J

jtb

Banned
Azula said:
So why didn't he just kill Hank? I believe family was definitely a line he never would cross.
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But I'm saying that's a superficial line. He didn't want to kill Hank. But he still got Hank killed. He literally dug Hank's grave.

He's been lying to himself this whole time (again, not unlike Humbert Humbert). That's why he's so compelling, not because he has an iota of "good" left in him. But because he's a liar and liars make for fascinating characters.
 
R

rekameohs

Banned
blitzcloud said:
wasn't anyone surprised at how walt Jr. was able to grab Walt and throw him away from his mom?

season 6 spoilers:
Starts with Walt Jr.saying he's going out with some friends (retrospective).
we see him driving to somewhere out of the town. He enters the building.
We see him entering a fight ring with a luchador mask
*breaking bad intro*
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Well his dad, who he literally called his hero on television in the last year, just confessed that he killed his uncle, so...
 
I

iammeiam

Member
Skyler's responsible for Hank's death like Walt's responsible for the plane crash. They both made bad choices that ended in something they never could have foreseen.

Difference is Skyler will likely blame herself for her involvement for the rest of her life.
 
B

Blader

Member
Brera said:
I disagree that Walt is evil.

He has done some very bad things but they have always been for self preservation or to save someone else. Usually Jessie.

He went out of his way and got into serious shit because other people were fucking shit up by being dumbasses (Skylar, Hank, Jessie).

He was just a desperate dude in over his head! He was always reluctant but his hands were tied. He was pushed too far when jessie betrayed him and caused the death of hank.

Remember, Jessie set this whole thing up. WW told the Nazis not to come and was willing to go down.
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Doing bad things out of self-preservation doesn't make it any less bad. Evil is typically born in self-preservation and desperation.
 
V

Veelk

Banned
Azula said:
Yeah, people fail to realize that Walt wanting to leave behind money for his family - is about himself feeling his life had meaning. That his life had worth. So while the object is to leave money for his family, the motivation is really selfish in that it's about proving his life had a real impact/purpose.
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One conversation I remember is with him and Jr, when he recounts how he viewed his father as pathetic, being stuck in a hospitol bed and being unable to provide for his family. He feared that more than anything, because he thought his family would view him the same way he viewed his father in that instance. It's how he'd view himself.

But walt jr. says that's not true at all. He would not look at walt with any kind of shame for being brought down by cancer. He would only do that if Walt was not there for him, loving him and skyler as a father and husband should.

Walt pretty much disregards this completely. It's not Walt Jr views that matter to him, it's his. He decides what kind of love Walt jr needs, not Walt Jr. You can't argue that he isn't doing it for himself if he doesn't listen when Walt Jr tells him what he wants out of a father.
 
M

Mononoke

Banned
SeanR1221 said:
I understand your point.

My point was turning themselves in wasn't an option while Gus was around.
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Sure. And I agree that was a very possible outcome. But I don't think Walt was concerned with that. If you listen to the conversation he had with Jesse in the arcade "Not the DEA. NEVER the DEA" - it was more so about him not wanting Hank or his family to find out. He was unwilling to accept that kind of help - because of his fear of his family finding out who he really was.

He had that option, and chose not to take it.
 
C

crozier

Member
Tookay said:
Skyler's causation is very attenuated. She has a part to play, but it isn't as direct as Walt's, nor has she been able to exercise the control he has over the situation or even put the wheels in motion the way he has.
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Really?

How have the White's hidden their finances? The business was Skyler's idea, she handled the negotiations, she launders the money. She helped create the blackmail tape. She ordered the hit on Jesse. She has every bit as much control over the business as Walter at this moment, if not more. The business cannot survive without her direct control and influence, so yes, she is just as culpable.
 
E

EmCeeGramr

Member
crozier said:
Really?

How have the White's hidden their finances? The business was Skyler's idea, she handled the negotiations, she launders the money. She helped create the blackmail tape. She ordered the hit on Jesse. She has every bit as much control over the business as Walter at this moment, if not more. The business cannot survive without her direct control and influence, so yes, she is just as culpable.
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pfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
 
T

Tookay

Member
Brera said:
I disagree that Walt is evil.

He has done some very bad things but they have always been for self preservation or to save someone else. Usually Jessie.

He went out of his way and got into serious shit because other people were fucking shit up by being dumbasses (Skylar, Hank, Jessie).

He was just a desperate dude in over his head! He was always reluctant but his hands were tied. He was pushed too far when jessie betrayed him and caused the death of hank.

Remember, Jessie set this whole thing up. WW told the Nazis not to come and was willing to go down.
Click to expand...

This begs the question of what you think evil actually is.

Because I think it can be something just as mundane as acting in self-preservation and being stupid enough to not think through the consequences of your actions.
 
M

Mononoke

Banned
Veelk said:
One conversation I remember is with him and Jr, when he recounts how he viewed his father as pathetic, being stuck in a hospitol bed and being unable to provide for his family. He feared that more than anything, because he thought his family would view him the same way he viewed his father in that instance.

But walt jr. says that's not true at all. He would not look at walt with any kind of shame for being brought down by cancer. He would only do that if Walt was not there for him, loving him and skyler as a father and husband should.

Walt pretty much disregards this completely. He decides what kind of love Walt jr needs, not Walt Jr. You can't argue that he isn't doing it for himself if he doesn't listen when Walt Jr tells him what he wants out of a father.
Click to expand...

Yep, that was a brilliant scene - and showed what a fool Walt really is. That he didn't even recognize his family, the father he was - as his life having meaning. That he really didn't understand the kind of love his son had for him.

That scene was brutal for me. And nicely ties back into all of this. Great job bringing that back up. Such a key moment.
 
K

kehs

Banned
I hope we get a cold opening or flashback that shows that his cancer was cause through some insane self experimentation during his undergrad days.
 
R

Raiden

Banned
Also an incredible scene, did a minor recap. I loved this part.



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R

RedRedSuit

Member
Azula said:
Walt's motivation to Break Bad might have been surface level about providing for his family after he was gone, but deep down it was about pride, and the fact that he was going to die with nothing to show for his life. It was his anger that he never achieved his potential in life.
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100% true.

If it were about his family in a selfless way, he'd have accepted help when it was offered. He repeatedly declined things that would help his family out of pure selfish pride.
 
M

maharg

idspispopd
Fatalah said:
Just thinking about how hard the networks will go after Vince Gilligan for his next series.

Holy guacamole.
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I really kind of hope he takes a break. People who produce something this good have a habbit of having their next project flop because they can't get the last project out of their head.
 
B

blitzcloud

Banned
crozier said:
Really?

How have the White's hidden their finances? The business was Skyler's idea, she handled the negotiations, she launders the money. She helped create the blackmail tape. She ordered the hit on Jesse. She has every bit as much control over the business as Walter at this moment, if not more. The business cannot survive without her direct control and influence, so yes, she is just as culpable.
Click to expand...

not as much if her life was threatened, which is the point that he tried to make clear in the phone call. If you do something illegal under coercion (say, at gunpoint), are you guilty of it?
 
M

Mononoke

Banned
RedRedSuit said:
100% true.

If it were about his family in a selfless way, he'd have accepted help when it was offered. He repeatedly declined things that would help his family out of pure selfish pride.
Click to expand...

I should have followed up that, by saying it wasn't even true. That Walt did leave something behind -- his family. That his life did in fact have meaning. But my post was looking at how Walt viewed things, which shows his own pride and ignorance. That he really thought his life had no value or meaning.

I really don't get why fans believe that Walt broke bad 100% for the family, and for sacrificial reasons. It was made pretty clear early on, that, that wasn't really the case.
 
N

No Love

Banned
So I'm thinking the Breaking Bad crew + AMC should start working on launching a Schraderbrau beer line to capitalize on the show's insane popularity. Make it the exact same logo as the show, have a big launch event across the country with Dean Norris promoting it in-character and signing people's bottles, and start stocking that shit in liquor stores all over America.

Hell, I'd buy it if it were good stuff.
 
C

Cornballer

Member
inm8num2 said:
Next Sunday.

Z6f8um7.gif
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Here's the list of the Emmys that Breaking Bad was nominated for:
Outstanding Directing For A Drama Series - 2013
Breaking Bad Gliding Over All
Michelle MacLaren, Directed by

Outstanding Drama Series - 2013
Breaking Bad

Outstanding Lead Actor In A Drama Series - 2013
Bryan Cranston, as Walter White

Outstanding Supporting Actor In A Drama Series - 2013
Jonathan Banks, as Mike Ehrmantraut

Outstanding Supporting Actor In A Drama Series - 2013
Aaron Paul, as Jesse Pinkman

Outstanding Supporting Actress In A Drama Series - 2013
Anna Gunn, as Skyler White

Outstanding Writing for a Drama Series - 2013
Breaking Bad Dead Freight
George Mastras, Written by

Outstanding Writing for a Drama Series - 2013
Breaking Bad Say My Name
Thomas Schnauz, Written by
Click to expand...
 
G

.GqueB.

Banned
Blader said:
Doing bad things out of self-preservation doesn't make it any less bad. Evil is typically born in self-preservation and desperation.
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I think what you quoted was wrong. He doesn't do it out of self-preservation, he does it for himself as well as those around him. He was ready to give up 80 mil for Hanks life. The 80 mil was the point but in that moment, Hank was more important to him and his family
 
C

Cornballer

Member
Content Round Up - Episode 6 - Ozymandias

4xJLFfm.jpg


Videos:
Reviews:
Other:
- Warming Glow: ‘Breaking Bad’ GIF Highlights: Ozymandias
- AMC Q&A: Dean Norris
- The Limeliters - Times are getting hard boys (barrel rolling song)
- NY Mag: This Week’s Breaking Bad GIFs: OMG Faces Galore
- Breaking Bad Insider Podcast
- Warming Glow: On Visiting The ‘Breaking Bad’ Set The Day ‘Ozymandias’ Was Filmed
- THR: 'Breaking Bad' Cast to Appear on 'Conan' Next Week
- THR: AMC Releases Ad to Thank Cast, Crew
- Verne Gay @ Newsday: 'Breaking Bad,' 'Ozymandias, 'The Sopranos' and the endgame
- NY Mag: See Director Rian Johnson’s Behind-the-Scenes Photos From Last Night’s Breaking Bad
- Rolling Stone: Aaron Paul Q&A
- Rolling Stone: Bryan Cranston Q&A
- EW: 'Breaking Bad' tribute: Hank's journey from plot device to hero
- Rolling Stone: 'Breaking Bad' Q&A: Rian Johnson on Directing One of the Last Episodes
- EW: The show's 10 most effective F-bombs
- Fairy Tales from Breaking Bad's Mike Ehrmantraut (youtube)​
 
C

Cagey

Banned
Tookay said:
Maybe this is just the law school student in me, I think you need to look up the legal definition of proximate cause.

Skyler's causation is very attenuated. She has a part to play, but it isn't as direct as Walt's, nor has she been able to exercise the control he has over the situation or even put the wheels in motion the way he has.

She isn't "just as culpable." That's really intellectually dishonest to flatten their actions along the same moral plane.
Click to expand...

Excellent post.
 
E

EmCeeGramr

Member
crozier said:
That's exactly what she did. She may have said it as some lame mafia cliche like, "make sure he's sleeping with the fishes" or something, but her meaning was crystal clear: Walt, kill Jesse
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She did not order a hit on Jesse any more than Saul ordered it.

Walt ordered it, and him alone.
 
S

SeanR1221

Member
maharg said:
I really kind of hope he takes a break. People who produce something this good have a habbit of having their next project flop because they can't get the last project out of their head.
Click to expand...

Yup. Take a nice long break and get scooped up by hbo.

One can dream
 
J

jtb

Banned
.GqueB. said:
I think what you quoted was wrong. He doesn't do it out of self-preservation, he does it for himself as well as those around him. He was ready to give up 80 mil for Hanks life. The 80 mil was the point but in that moment, Hank was more important to him and his family
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That 80 million dollars was illegally acquired in the first place, and cost a hell of a lot of blood to get there too. It's like selling off a stolen car to pay for stolen gas. /socialnetwork

But in all seriousness, he tried to atone for one sin by sinning again. That's just digging the hole even further.
 
I

IceCold

Member
The problem is that too many gaffers see everything in either black or white. It happens in practically every single thread, you always see people unable to see the moral shades in life.

But I see this show for what it is, a work of fiction and I'm on team Walt because he's a badass. But even then, all this team crap is stupid, everybody broke bad and all I want is for the show to be entertaining.
 
E

Edwards_Omatic

Member
Just finished watching the latest episode maybe 5 minutes ago...
I think that may have been the greatest hour of TV I've ever witnessed, absolutely phenomenal.
 
M

Mononoke

Banned
jtb said:
That 80 million dollars was illegally acquired in the first place, and cost a hell of a lot of blood to get there too. It's like selling off a stolen car to pay for stolen gas. /socialnetwork
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Sure. But the money is everything to Walt. It's literally how he defined his self worth, and his life having meaning. The fact he was willing to give that all up for Hank, is something we must acknowledge. It doesn't mean that redeems walt, or excuses his actions. But the fact is, Walt was willing to give up all of that for Hank.

It goes back to my post on the last page. The fact that Walt was actually willing to turn himself in. Walt is a complex character, that isn't just a cartoon villain that is evil incarnate. Those that are painting Walt that way, are just as bad as those trying to justify all of Walt's actions, and prop him up as a hero.

But you are right -- it's like Walt setting someone house on fire, the person suffering severe burns, but the he puts the fire out. That doesn't change the fact that he started the fire in the first place. Him putting out the fire doesn't redeem him.
 
T

Tookay

Member
CrimsonCommie said:
It's ok to hate a character but verbally assaulting anybody that likes the character is taking it way too far.
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Liking the character is one thing. He's a great character.

Justifying his immoral actions because you "like" said character I think reflects a deficit of critical thinking and just plain ignorance of what the show and its writers have been trying to tell you after 50 hours of television.
 
U

ultron87

Member
IceCold said:
The problem is that too many gaffers see everything in either black or white. It happens in practically every single thread, you always see people unable to see the moral shades in life.

But I see this show for what it is, a work of fiction and I'm on team Walt because he's a badass. But even then, all this team crap is stupid, everybody broke bad and all I want is for the show to be entertaining.
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That was pretty bad ass when he stole a baby and ran away.
 
E

EmCeeGramr

Member
crozier said:
Saul didn't have the authority to order it while Skyler did. She's a partner in the business and an equal in their family's affairs while Saul was not.
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Skyler does not have the authority to order any hit, which is why she didn't and Walt did, and then Walt called them again. Skyler has no idea who the Nazis even are.


This... this is a troll, right? This has to be a parody.
 
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