I don't agree with this poster. But I'm curious what your thoughts on Skyler are, for telling Walt to not turn himself in - and suggesting to Walt that he should put a hit on Jesse. While she's not physically making calls or doing these things, doesn't she morally have a responsibility to a degree?
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Breaking Bad - Season 5, Part 2 - The Final Eight Episodes - Sundays on AMC - OT2
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I don't agree with this poster. But I'm curious what your thoughts on Skyler are, for telling Walt to not turn himself in - and suggesting to Walt that he should put a hit on Jesse. While she's not physically making calls or doing these things, doesn't she morally have a responsibility to a degree?
She isn't an equal. She's a captive who occasionally gains a little bit of power over Walt, but not enough to break free without a lot of collateral damage. That was the whole point of "Fifty-One."
Todd is incredible. But I would prefer that if Jesse is going to die that Walt do it.
I disagree.
Good people do bad things sometimes.
Evil people do it for shits and giggles/mental illness. WW is neither.
He's a good guy backed into a corner. Most of us would do the same.
He did everything to stop Hank dying.
CrimsonCommie
Member
People justify every characters' immoral actions in the show.
I literally I cannot believe that anyone has seen how Walt does everything in his power to manipulate, control, and threaten skyler whenever she does something he doesn't like and call that a relationship equal.
Seriously, how do people distort the things they see to this extent? This has to be studied as a psychological phenomenon.
When she is involved in the business, she comes off as an advisor to walt on the financial aspects of the business, but he is the one who makes the decisions. The only time I think she took control is when walt gave up on the car wash while she refused and managed to get it anyway. That was the only passing moment where they were working as partners instead of captive and warden.
Todd only tortured Jesse and made him a meth cooking slave for his true love, Lydia. Jesse pretty much made him do it!
CambriaRising
Member
Can't unsee him as Landry from Friday Night Lights.
(Mustache Nazi was also in that show)
cubicle47b
Member
Jar Jar Binks and characters of that type.
I love how we don't notice the knifes in the cold open even though they are right there!
Ninja Scooter
Member
Hitler didn't do bad things for shits/giggles. He did it because in his mind he thought he was in the right. Walter White thinks he is in the right.
Walt never listens to Skyler's authority and didn't here. Walt didn't order the hit until Jesse made it clear conversation wouldn't work. Had Walt listened to Skyler and treated her like a partner, that dad at the meeting would have been an actual hitman.
Wat.
This episode killed me, I felt so sad for Jessie, his life is just a continual downward spiral. Seeing him tortured and using brock as leverage against him );
Clarify what you mean by rad. This is the same guy that murdered a kid a while back. One could say that he has boyish like insanity, but to characterize him as rad seems odd.
I'm assuming you just mean that he's a really interesting character.
I cannot help but feel your take on evil is extremely limiting and barely applicable in the real world.
But I can't really take that seriously or on face value when Walt was so deluded as to what the situation was. He had zero clue who was in charge. It's very convinient to say and want to do the right thing when you have no agency, yet every occasion Walt does have agency, he is a force of destruction. The fact that he can't reconcile his intent with his own actions and the consequences of those actions just makes him a liar.
And to that end, I hold Walt responsible for the Nazis raiding them. He called the hit, and he made it very explicit that he would happily backstab the Nazis and that he was in a position of need. Not to mention, they're fucking Nazis. to expect anything other than what actually happened, well... as Hank mentions, that's just a special kind of stupid. That's the thing—it's not just consequences that have turned out bad from would-be good actions. It's bad actions (namely, producing meth) leading to bad consequences. Just because Walt thinks he's exempt from his actions having the same bad consequences as they do for everyone else, doesn't mean he is.
Well he did the right thing with the baby in the end. He was seeing red at that point which is why he did what he did. but I'm not gonna switch teams after all this time. I'm on a sinking boat and I'm staying on it.
So, do we think that Skyler succumbed to Walt's abuse, and had stockholm syndrome? Her telling Walt to not turn himself in, and helping him create that video about Hank, is some alarming actions by her.
Yeah, I get that she could be brought down for Walt's crime, so to a degree she's motivated by self-preservation. But she also didn't seem scared of Walt, or grossed out by him in the second half of this season (like she was in the first half).
EmCeeGramr
Member
Skyler is a victim who just wants this all to be over with. If Walt dies before getting arrested or turning himself in, then she's free and her son doesn't have to know the truth. If some junkie maniac is apparently out to get their family, then why is Mr. I-Do-Terrible-Things-But-Only-For-My-Family so reticent about his reasons for not dealing with it? She has a responsibility, and she's failed in that (until the end of Ozymandias), but it's easier to sympathize with that when she's been emotionally abused and manipulated by the dangerous maniac who lives in her house.
ZedIndyLil
Member
I'm no gun expert, but the muzzle flash looked a little CG'd:
Makes sense due to the close proximity of Dean Norris' body to the gun.
Makes sense due to the close proximity of Dean Norris' body to the gun.
Kano on the Phone
Member
Walt sympathy is the new "tortured animals as a child."
Of course. I'm not saying Walt isn't responsible. He is. I'm not saying that Walt should be forgiven or looked redeemed because he was willing to give up all his money. But the fact still is, Walt was unwilling to kill Hank when it would have been convient to do so. He didn't have the Nazis come to wipe out Hank and Gomez, but instead chose to turn himself in. And he was also willing to give up all his money, to save his life.
Clearly, Walt had a line that he wouldn't cross with family.
Yep. God damn, that scene. The moment Walt breaks down, tears in his eyes, I got all misty eyed as well.
If Cranston doesn't get every possible award this year, something is horribly wrong.
Can't argue with this. I still think that Skyler should have allowed Walt to turn himself in. But I understand why she didn't. But I agree that she is a victim. I guess it just bugs me that Skyler was willing to make that tape smearing Hank, and that she so casually was able to suggest killing Jesse.
Even if she's just trying to get out of this nightmare, it's a moral compromise on her part. And so I don't know if I can 100% clear her of all blame for these actions. Although I also admit, that Walt is the cause for her being in this position to make these decisions.
So fair enough.
I know that this was addressed to EmCee and he did a fine job answering it, but I don't think anyone here is saying she lacks moral responsibility for what's happened.
It's just that this responsibility isn't as great as Walt's. That's how this conversation started, with someone equating the two of them.
This show isn't about good and evil as you said earlier. It's more cause and effect. Shades of gray. However, Walt is a very, very dark shade of gray.
Walt is the cancer. His choices, his actions, have led to numerous destructive and damaging consequences. The way he constantly lies to himself and to others shows his true nature imo.
Maybe some people are mistaking sympathy for pity.
Ninja Scooter
Member
He was desperate and thinking irrationally in that moment (otherwise it would have been obvious that the Nazis could kill Hank and still Debo him for his money). Had it somehow worked, I have no doubt that he would have just gone further and further down the rabbit hole to try and keep Hank quiet and get his money back from the Nazis.
If Walt had died of cancer in Season 1, everybody on the show would have been better off.
Yeah, note I said equal in the family...she's a business partner.
I definitely wouldn't label her as a "captive" either. Jesse is a captive while Skyler is a willing participant, albeit one who arrived there through unfortunate circumstance rather than effort. No onehas a gun to her head, though. No one is coercing her.
TrumanBurbank
Member
I can't get over how psychotic Todd is.
When he dies I will celebrate like I won the lottery. I will also watch it on loop for hours.
When he dies I will celebrate like I won the lottery. I will also watch it on loop for hours.
Well said! Astute observation.
Exactly. This is analogous to Walt's relationship with Jesse.
Remember, he EXPLICITLY says: "Jesse is family." And then promptly orders a hit on him.
I think its interesting that Walt pleads for Hanks life and says he is "family" just last week he said that Jesse was family while ordering the hit.
Also interesting was Hank and Walts 1st confrontation. Walt tries to warn Hank not to mess with him, but it is Walt who really doesn't understand who he is messing with when he hires Nazi hit men. Hank knows he is a goner immediately when Jack racks a round in his gun. Walt is still delusional enough to think he can talk him out of killing Hank.
Also interesting was Hank and Walts 1st confrontation. Walt tries to warn Hank not to mess with him, but it is Walt who really doesn't understand who he is messing with when he hires Nazi hit men. Hank knows he is a goner immediately when Jack racks a round in his gun. Walt is still delusional enough to think he can talk him out of killing Hank.
I really, really hope that Jesse kills him, without remorse. It would certainly be an interesting turn.
Not gonna lie, Todd scares the shit out of me. Dude doesn't give a single fuck.
Cornballer
Member
Walt thought saving Hank's life would bring him in line.
He digs Hank more?
There are ways to coerce somebody beyond physical intimidation. Walt deploys emotional terrorism to keep Skyler his captive (and make her complicit in what he does).
Once again, this was the whole point of the Walt-Skyler bedroom argument in Fifty-One that very clearly laid out that, while she was compromised, she also has fewer options to make it better without hurting a lot of people.
They aren't equals in the family or the business. Walt gives her (and apparently some viewers) an illusion that she is.
Her flaw is that she still loves the "Walt" side of his personality. I believe Anna Gunn said that is her interpretation of the character as well. That's why she had hope at a revival of their old relationship when Walt finally said he was giving up the business for good, and why she went out of her way to tell Lydia to fuck off when she came to tempt Walt back into service. With hank found out, she is of the mindset that things can go back to normal if hank just forgets this happened. But hank dying due to walt's actions kind of made her realize that Walt is gone forever, and there is no going back to their past relationship.
They way I see it, Walt uses family as an excuse to do what he wants to do to empower himself. But skyler genuinely does everything she does for family. First she wants to maintain normalcy by divorcing walt without the world finding out their criminal activities. Then she tries to work with walt, so they can be a criminal family, become part of the fantasy walt is living in since resisting it proved ineffective. But she soon realizes how reprehensible this is and opts out when he murders gus via bomb in nursery home. Then she just tries to seperate walt from the children quietly and wait for him to die of cancer, because at that point she gave up on her walt coming back. She can't resist, but she can't join in this sick game any longer either. But then there was this last spark of hope, with Walt giving up the drug trade. Maybe things can go back to the way they were and they can just forget it ever happened. Then hank finds out. Then hank dies as a result of walt. This is where she just realizes she needs to end it, by any means necessary.
This is my interpretation of skyler's character and feel she ought to come clean to the police and not take Walt's exonerating phone call. She can never be free of him if she colludes with him in this, as she has done for the last 3 seasons.
DataStream
Member
I don't have time to go through all the roundup reviews, but I'm curious if anyone found one that was negative of the episode. I'd like to read one that came down on the other side.
You say irrationally I say emotionally. And "duh" on the bolded.
BabySlayer
Banned
PastorOfMuppets
Banned
I've given up trying to debate with Team Walt. At this point he could join the Nazis and start lynching black people and people would still try to rationalize his behaviour.
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