• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

BusinessInsider.com: Microsoft's Xbox is beating the PlayStation 5 this holiday season for 3 key reasons

Status
Not open for further replies.

adamsapple

Member
You can buy any external SSD for bc/non enhanced games and because of the way the i/o works they are equally as fast as putting them in the internal.

Save the internal for Enhanced games that require it and use any old SSD for the bc games that don't

It amazes me how many ppl don't realize this works.

You can even 'store' SS|SX optimized games on external drives, and copy them over to internal when you need to play them.

I have a 1TB USB SSD attached to my SX. All the non optimized stuff resides there, including some enhanced games I know I Won't be playing any time soon but would rather not need to download the 50~60GB again. The copy/pasting doesn't take that long.
 
So it's existence makes no difference to you, yet here you are complaining about it.

🥱
Who said that...I have a PS5, PC, Series X and OLED switch... I'm stating that I wish Series S was never made...due to its weak hardware..just like Xbox One and PS4 holds back everything..I understand the appeal of the cheaper offerings but they hold back the more powerful offerings.

EDIT: PS5 has the advantage with exclusives due to both SKUs being identical in power...
 
Last edited:
Whatever man, I played Dark Souls on the 360 lmao. It was still an amazing experience. People will play the new Horizon on a PS4 and will have just as much fun as PS5 owners. Not the same experience.. . Give me a break, any way for you all to try to get a pathetic dig at the Series S.
But its not the same experience.
 

Kagey K

Member
Who said that...I have a PS5, PC, Series X and OLED switch... I'm stating that I wish Series S was never made...due to its weak hardware..just like Xbox One and PS4 holds back everything..I understand the appeal of the cheaper offerings but they hold back the more powerful offerings.

EDIT: PS5 has the advantage with exclusives due to both SKUs being identical in power...
I haven't seen one first party game that proves that.
 

Rykan

Member
60 and 120 are both suboptimal as well. Are people experiencing the same game at 60 as PC gamers at 240? I think so. I do prefer 60 to 30 but comparing different generations and the difference between the S and the X is pure hyperbole as is claiming that the same game is VASTLY better because it plays more smoothly. Plain and simple.

I wonder if PC forums have people dissing on 2080ti graphic card buyers since the 3090 exists. This is the same type of shit.
Err...No. Because there is the law of diminishing returns. Much like resolution, the difference in fluidity becomes less perceivable at higher framerates. The difference between 30 fps en 60 fps is much, much larger than the difference between 60 fps and 120 fps. or even 240 fps.

Just like the jump from 480p to 1080p is a significantly bigger perceivable jump than the jump from 1080p to 4k.
 

Kagey K

Member
Ratchet and Clank? Also in the future exclusive games will most likely look better on PS5 (Graphics King)

As of now....Horizon Forbidden West, Hellblade 2, The Matrix Awakens and Marbles RTX are next level.
So supposedly games held back by the PS4 or never released on the PS4 proves Series S is Holding the X back?

How?

You contradict you own point.
 
Last edited:

Papacheeks

Gold Member
You can buy any external SSD for bc/non enhanced games and because of the way the i/o works they are equally as fast as putting them in the internal.

Save the internal for Enhanced games that require it and use any old SSD for the bc games that don't

It amazes me how many ppl don't realize this works.

That’s a good idea. Issue is it doesn’t have a disc drive for all my 360 and oh Xbox games.
 

DavidGzz

Member
Err...No. Because there is the law of diminishing returns. Much like resolution, the difference in fluidity becomes less perceivable at higher framerates. The difference between 30 fps en 60 fps is much, much larger than the difference between 60 fps and 120 fps. or even 240 fps.

Just like the jump from 480p to 1080p is a significantly bigger perceivable jump than the jump from 1080p to 4k.

Er... Yes. They're still suboptimal. Just because they aren't as obvious to you doesn't means jack. Someone used to 144+hz display has a hard time going back to 60. So yeah, consoles will never be optimal. If you're going to be hyperbolic about the S and X difference I can be annoying as well while still being factual. The Series S has a tiny form factor and is $300. Why would it be optimal? The Switch is also FAR from optimal for resolution and frame rates. What's wrong with things being suboptimal? They can still be great experiences.
 

yurinka

Member
When you try to list war and realize it sucks but click post anyway ....

Paris Hilton Reaction GIF
Someone asked about PS holiday games and I replied with some of the best selling PS games in recent sales rankings, plus explained the truth: Sony left the end of the year to the 3rd parties, mostly multis, as they do every year. Plus listed some PS delayed games, that included maybe one or two that maybe were originally planned to be released this holiday season.

If you don't like it or consider list war it's your isuue, not mine. During holidays Sony keeps the focus for the 3rd parties, they typically fill with their games the rest of the year.
 
Last edited:

Rykan

Member
Er... Yes. They're still suboptimal. Just because they aren't as obvious to you doesn't means jack. Someone used to 144+hz display has a hard time going back to 60. So yeah, consoles will never be optimal. If you're going to be hyperbolic about the S and X difference I can be annoying as well while still being factual. The Series S has a tiny form factor and is $300. Why would it be optimal? The Switch is also FAR from optimal for resolution and frame rates. What's wrong with things being suboptimal? They can still be great experiences.
You're not being annoying, you're being ignorant. Yes, 144hz will offer a better experience than 60hz, but the experience is much closer than that of 30 to 60. I've never said that 60hz was optimal, I've said that 60hz offers a better experience. That is a fact.

The problem is that you label everything as "Great" or "Amazing" and when you start doing that, you won't be able to differentiate anymore. 30 FPS is quite literally what we consider to be the lowest possible framerate that is still considered to be playable. It's not a "great" experience and the game plays vastly better in the remastered version.

To put it simply: The 30 FPS becomes the lesser experience the moment that a 60 fps version becomes readily available. No, that doesn't mean that you can't have fun with or that you can't enjoy it, but it is objectively not a "great" experience when a much better experience is easily accessible.
 

Sosokrates

Founder of western console warring.
In the future.

Its apples and oranges. Ebbs and flows.

Sony have TLOU, uncharted, spiderman, god of war, horizon etc and Microsoft have starfield, avowed, DOOM, fable, hellbalde 2 etc

No line up is suprior, just what people prefer. But at this point both portfolios have something for everyone.
Missing a platform out this gen is going to really suck. Because both line ups are so diverse and share a lot of similarities.
 

ReBurn

Gold Member
You're not being annoying, you're being ignorant. Yes, 144hz will offer a better experience than 60hz, but the experience is much closer than that of 30 to 60. I've never said that 60hz was optimal, I've said that 60hz offers a better experience. That is a fact.

The problem is that you label everything as "Great" or "Amazing" and when you start doing that, you won't be able to differentiate anymore. 30 FPS is quite literally what we consider to be the lowest possible framerate that is still considered to be playable. It's not a "great" experience and the game plays vastly better in the remastered version.

To put it simply: The 30 FPS becomes the lesser experience the moment that a 60 fps version becomes readily available. No, that doesn't mean that you can't have fun with or that you can't enjoy it, but it is objectively not a "great" experience when a much better experience is easily accessible.
Objectively

Cary Elwes Disney Plus GIF by Disney+
 

Lognor

Member
The inevitable pc ports will ;)
Yep. With the success Sony has seen with the handful of games they've released on PC they are only going to ramp up efforts. And they will need to make concessions for the PC ports since SSDs are still that common in PCs. So yeah, somehow they will get those games to work on PC. Sony really missed an opportunity to develop a lower end console like Microsoft did. They would be selling way more units right now and with the porting studios they purchased they have the staff to downport those games. Huge missed opportunity.
 

mckmas8808

Ah. Peace and quiet. #ADayWithoutAWoman
Most people don't give a shit about exclusives anyways.

This is a COMPLETE lie!

mckmas8808 mckmas8808 may be referring to the way the article shifts from "Xbox beating PlayStation" in the title to XSS in the article.

I was. Funny enough, I see most people don't want to talk about it though. It's cool, because I feel like the people that noticed, now see the fault with the author's article that the OP posted.

Morgan Freeman Reaction GIF by MOODMAN
awesome and charming vid BTW

Casual gamers and kids simply don't care about the res/FPS etc, they simply want to play Infinite, Horizion, HB2 etc

It's the people on this forum AKA the niche market that see the faults (myself included) and would rather wait for the X or Xs/Xpro etc

And yet people on GAF will still cry about a game being made to play at 30fps in the near future. I wish GAF could make up it's mind.
 
This is what I was having trouble reconciling,

Horizon, GT, God of War are all going to be graphical masterpieces, despite being on PS4, but the series S is Holding Xbox back.....

I just dont get it.
What part of PS5 exclusives aren't shackled by old hardware don't you understand... Example: TLOU II wasn't on PS3 or any other system....It still looks better than almost any game out today...
 
Its apples and oranges. Ebbs and flows.

Sony have TLOU, uncharted, spiderman, god of war, horizon etc and Microsoft have starfield, avowed, DOOM, fable, hellbalde 2 etc

No line up is suprior, just what people prefer. But at this point both portfolios have something for everyone.
Missing a platform out this gen is going to really suck. Because both line ups are so diverse and share a lot of similarities.
I agree..but I'm talking about exclusive games...
 

HeisenbergFX4

Gold Member
Cool, so about or more than two thirds of the stock was sold. In the absence of SX and PS5s, if this is an indicator of how sales went across big retail chains, Series S will probably be making bank and pushing units.
Yeah thought that was a nice amount of sales for my small town and my Game Stop had zero left and the manage in there said they sold about a dozen of them since Black Friday
 

DarkMage619

Member
Cool, so about or more than two thirds of the stock was sold. In the absence of SX and PS5s, if this is an indicator of how sales went across big retail chains, Series S will probably be making bank and pushing units.
So smart of MS to have a dual SKU. They can target both hardcore and casuals. This generation will clearly be different than last. Most importantly they are focused on games as evidenced by the outstanding reviews their games received this year. Gamers will benefit.
 

adamsapple

Member
I live in a suburban area bordering right next to a big city and I haven't seen a single one of either of the 3 next-gen consoles in the store shelves in any store I've recalled visiting in the last year. Target, Walmart, Costco, Gamestop, Best Buy etc ... none of them have had units in stock. Even I lucked out with an online order via Best Buy in one of their 3AM stock updates when the consoles first launched.
 
Last edited:

dcmk7

Member
Is Forbidden West the same on PS4 and 5?....NO.
Will have to see about this. HFW could end up being held back by last gen. I hope not but don't see how it couldn't in some respects.

But when the time comes for the last generation to be dropped completely. The PS5 won't be held back at all by the other SKU, the DE. Best bang for buck around at the moment and it helps that you get the same experience as the premium model.
 
Last edited:

DavidGzz

Member
You're not being annoying, you're being ignorant. Yes, 144hz will offer a better experience than 60hz, but the experience is much closer than that of 30 to 60. I've never said that 60hz was optimal, I've said that 60hz offers a better experience. That is a fact.

The problem is that you label everything as "Great" or "Amazing" and when you start doing that, you won't be able to differentiate anymore. 30 FPS is quite literally what we consider to be the lowest possible framerate that is still considered to be playable. It's not a "great" experience and the game plays vastly better in the remastered version.

To put it simply: The 30 FPS becomes the lesser experience the moment that a 60 fps version becomes readily available. No, that doesn't mean that you can't have fun with or that you can't enjoy it, but it is objectively not a "great" experience when a much better experience is easily accessible.


Easily accessible except no one can find these new consoles and they are more expensive to boot. Since availability and money is no object a PC with a 3080 is even more easily accessible right now. Quit playing suboptimally, man. We enjoyed the shit out of 30 fps for several years. I didn't even know Halo was 30 fps back in the day vs. CoD's 60 until I joined internet forums. Forums that most casuals never ever visit. You never said that the new consoles were optimal but you started claiming the Series S was suboptimal so naturally anyone can claim that even the higher end consoles are suboptimal as well.

Coming in and dissing on a $300 console for not being an optimal gaming experience is ignorant imo. Do you go into Switch threads and do the same? They are the same price. It's ok to be salty that the S is selling like hotcakes. I don't understand why the Switch sells but I don't go into their sales threads and start to downplay it.
 

Rykan

Member
Easily accessible except no one can find these new consoles and they are more expensive to boot. Since availability and money is no object a PC with a 3080 is even more easily accessible right now. Quit playing suboptimally, man. We enjoyed the shit out of 30 fps for several years. I didn't even know Halo was 30 fps back in the day vs. CoD's 60 until I joined internet forums. Forums that most casuals never ever visit. You never said that the new consoles were optimal but you started claiming the Series S was suboptimal so naturally anyone can claim that even the higher end consoles are suboptimal as well.

Coming in and dissing on a $300 console for not being an optimal gaming experience is ignorant imo. Do you go into Switch threads and do the same? They are the same price. It's ok to be salty that the S is selling like hotcakes. I don't understand why the Switch sells but I don't go into their sales threads and start to downplay it.
It's pretty much impossible to have a reasonable discussion with people like you. You are unable to talk or think in anything other than complete hyperboles. Everything is "Great" "Amazing" or "Enjoyed the shit out of". You may not have known that Halo was 30 fps, but you sure could feel it. So did everyone else, which is why CoD became the best selling FPS franchise of that generation. It sold better than any other FPS because it ran better than every other FPS.

Yeah these consoles are hard to find NOW, but everyone who has a PS4 is going to upgrade eventually.

I didn't say the Series S was suboptimal, I've said that your examples of playing games at 30 fps were suboptimal.
 
Last edited:

yurinka

Member
Sony really missed an opportunity to develop a lower end console like Microsoft did.
They already have it, it's called PS4 (or PS4 Pro if you prefer it). If they want low end friendly games to get a bigger userbase they have the crossgen option, which is what they are doing. Once they have their next gen engines and userbase ready, they will be able to get rid of the ancient hardware to take full advantage of the horsepower.

Regarding a cheaper next gen sku than the standard console, they already have the discless edition. Which no horsepower issues, which is a bettere idea.

HFW could end up being held back by last gen.
HFW was started to be developed back in 2017, when they had no fucking idea of how the next gen was going to be and its technology still didn't exist. So it has been designed and developed primarly as a last gen game, with additions in its second half of the development to make it look slightly better in next gen.

So Horizon 3 will be the one designed from the start for the next gen, knowing its hardware and having an engine capable of taking full advantage of everything, stuff like the one mentioned by Cerny on his talk or seen in the Unreal 5 demos. Not Horizon 2. When released pretty likely Horizon 2 will look better than anything in the market, but will continue being primarly a game designed for the previous gen.
 
Last edited:

nush

Gold Member
So smart of MS to have a dual SKU. They can target both hardcore and casuals. This generation will clearly be different than last. Most importantly they are focused on games as evidenced by the outstanding reviews their games received this year. Gamers will benefit.

There's a precedent for this actually working. In Europe the Master System was successful and so Sega kept selling it alongside the Megadrive almost to the end. I worked in a game shop and I'd have lots of parents coming asking for "A Sega" for their kids. I know that kid wanted a Megadrive, that's what I'd offer. However there were a noticeable number of these parents that looked at the price and thought "A Sega" was much cheaper. They walked out the shop with a Master System.

However rolling around to next Christmas and getting their kid that years present they came back for a Megadrive and it was an easy sell to give them a Master System Adapter if they were not trading in the old "Sega".

What a lot of people here don't think about is that a vast number of sales of ANY console are actually made by parents.

Buy a Series S this year,

Next years present for the kids is a Series X that you can play all your old games on AND could have come down in price.

I'm sure there are other examples like this in the home micro, IOS/Android or PC space.
 

Lognor

Member
They already have it, it's called PS4 (or PS4 Pro if you prefer it). If they want low end friendly games to get a bigger userbase they have the crossgen option, which is what they are doing. Once they have their next gen engines and userbase ready, they will be able to get rid of the ancient hardware to take full advantage of the horsepower.

Regarding a cheaper next gen sku than the standard console, they already have the discless edition. Which no horsepower issues, which is a bettere idea.


HFW was started to be developed back in 2017, when they had no fucking idea of how the next gen was going to be and its technology still didn't exist. So it has been designed and developed primarly as a last gen game, with additions in its second half of the development to make it look slightly better in next gen.

So Horizon 3 will be the one designed from the start for the next gen, knowing its hardware and having an engine capable of taking full advantage of everything, stuff like the one mentioned by Cerny on his talk or seen in the Unreal 5 demos. Not Horizon 2. When released pretty likely Horizon 2 will look better than anything in the market, but will continue being primarly a game designed for the previous gen.
Nah. The PS4 is not a good comparison to the Series S. That is last gen and Sony will soon stop manufacturing them (if they haven't already). All the compromises developing for the PS4 affects the PS5 games. We have a ton of upcoming cross gen games from Sony. Imagine if they were PS5 exclusive. Maybe if Sony had been able to sell more consoles (via a lower end console) they could have more easily moved to PS5 only. I mean, Jim Ryan said they believe in generations. And he probably did mean that at the time, but they had to backtrack since they haven't been able to sell enough consoles and now we're left with countless upcoming cross gen games (HZD2, GT7, GoW2, etc).
 

Topher

Gold Member
Nah. The PS4 is not a good comparison to the Series S. That is last gen and Sony will soon stop manufacturing them (if they haven't already). All the compromises developing for the PS4 affects the PS5 games. We have a ton of upcoming cross gen games from Sony. Imagine if they were PS5 exclusive. Maybe if Sony had been able to sell more consoles (via a lower end console) they could have more easily moved to PS5 only. I mean, Jim Ryan said they believe in generations. And he probably did mean that at the time, but they had to backtrack since they haven't been able to sell enough consoles and now we're left with countless upcoming cross gen games (HZD2, GT7, GoW2, etc).

PS4 compromises PS5 games but XSS does not compromise XSX games?
 

skit_data

Member
Imagine if they were PS5 exclusive. Maybe if Sony had been able to sell more consoles (via a lower end console) they could have more easily moved to PS5 only.
I think these games being crossgen has more to do with those games having been in production for several years before the PS5 hardware was finalized and less to do with the fact that they chose to go with a single spec.
 

yurinka

Member
Nah. The PS4 is not a good comparison to the Series S. That is last gen and Sony will soon stop manufacturing them (if they haven't already). All the compromises developing for the PS4 affects the PS5 games. We have a ton of upcoming cross gen games from Sony. Imagine if they were PS5 exclusive. Maybe if Sony had been able to sell more consoles (via a lower end console) they could have more easily moved to PS5 only. I mean, Jim Ryan said they believe in generations. And he probably did mean that at the time, but they had to backtrack since they haven't been able to sell enough consoles and now we're left with countless upcoming cross gen games (HZD2, GT7, GoW2, etc).
Multis or exclusive, AAA games now take 4-6 years of development unless they are a quick rehash of another game. This means games like Horizon 2, GoWR or GT7 were start to be developed in 2017 or 2018. And back then they didn't have or know what and how was going to be the new hardware, so couldn't design the games to take full advantage of it, couldn't make engines to take advantage of it, etc. So they did design the games being released in 2021 and 2022 as previous gen games, and only have extra some shiny stuff on top to make them look a bit better in next gen. To drop PS4 versions wouldn't have make games like Horizon 2, Gowr, GT7 or any other crossgen game pretty different. Same goes for MS or any 3rd party.

In the 'we believe in generations' Jim Ryan said they were continue supporting PS4 during for at least a couple of years more after PS5 release -something they did for all their consoles- because even if PS5 sells at gaming history records levels (as it is the case) the big majority of the fanbase will need some years to upgrade to the next gen and they don't want to let them behind. He also said that he wanted to see the games taking advantage of the next gen only features like haptics, adaptative triggers, 3D audio and super fast loading times. As it is the case.

Devs got the next gen specs and early devkit prototypes during 2019 and in a few 1st party cases end of 2018. Engines that take full advantage of the next gen stuff like Unreal Engine 5 still aren't ready, so games taking full advantage of these engines even less. Big AAA games (and the engines they use) aren't made in 3 months, they require many years and every generation require more work and longer times.

This means we'll continue getting crossgen games until at least 2023 or 2024, specially considering covid caused extra delays in game development and consoles manufacturing. And that until then, next gen only games will be basically previous gen games with only an extra layer of paint so to don't release the in previous gen consoles will only mean to avoid getting extra money from the majority of players who would buy these games in platforms that perfectly can run them.


You're not being annoying, you're being ignorant. Yes, 144hz will offer a better experience than 60hz, but the experience is much closer than that of 30 to 60. I've never said that 60hz was optimal, I've said that 60hz offers a better experience. That is a fact.

The problem is that you label everything as "Great" or "Amazing" and when you start doing that, you won't be able to differentiate anymore. 30 FPS is quite literally what we consider to be the lowest possible framerate that is still considered to be playable. It's not a "great" experience and the game plays vastly better in the remastered version.

To put it simply: The 30 FPS becomes the lesser experience the moment that a 60 fps version becomes readily available. No, that doesn't mean that you can't have fun with or that you can't enjoy it, but it is objectively not a "great" experience when a much better experience is easily accessible.
Looking at sales, the big majority of players buy AAA games for consoles, so they don't seem to care about playing them in 30fps. And in Steam most of them have low or mid level hardware. So considering there's a hardware constrain for the majority of players, devs must decide if to go for striking visuals at 30fps or less good visuals at 60fps.

Outisde a few genres like fighting games, players seem to prefer 30fps with better visuals in most AAA genres like action adventures, open worlds, etc. Same goes with resolution, most people still don't have 4K displays so prefer games looking better using a lower resolution than to have native 4K support.
 
Last edited:

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
I think these games being crossgen has more to do with those games having been in production for several years before the PS5 hardware was finalized and less to do with the fact that they chose to go with a single spec.
That’s a good point, it’s the price you pay when you had many more IPs in the pipeline.
 

Lognor

Member
I think these games being crossgen has more to do with those games having been in production for several years before the PS5 hardware was finalized and less to do with the fact that they chose to go with a single spec.
So you're saying Jim Ryan was lying when he said he believes in generations then? Nah, I don't think he would lie like that.

And just because a game has been in development for several years doesn't mean it couldn't be developed exclusively for the PS5. I mean, Returnal was in development for several years before the PS5 hardware was finalized. So was Ratchet and Clank. So was Demons Souls. Why wouldn't these games be on PS4 then? I think they changed course mid development because they knew they would not be able to sell enough consoles quickly enough due to supply shortages. A lower end console could have fixed that.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom