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[killer rin]

So I saw this on Reddit. Apperently The Conservatives are going to run this campaign on making it harder for a future government to change the Voting System off of FPTP by making any changes go through a National Referendum format.

Toronto Sun: Tories to require a vote on changing elections

 

[Mr.Mike]

So I saw this on Reddit. Apperently The Conservatives are going to run this campaign on making it harder for a future government to change the Voting System off of FPTP by making any changes go through a National Referendum format.

Toronto Sun: Tories to require a vote on changing elections

I recall reading somewhere that previous parliaments can't bind future parliaments. I think that was in regards to mandating balanced budgets or something, and how that would be unconstitutional. Assuming that's right, it seems like this would also fall under that.

 

[BigJonsson]

Future parliament could probably repeal it

 

[NetMapel]

*Delete ! Wrong post in the topic !

 

[Popstar]

^^^ You're in the wrong thread man.

I think you want http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=948418

 

[matthewwhatever]

I recall reading somewhere that previous parliaments can't bind future parliaments. I think that was in regards to mandating balanced budgets or something, and how that would be unconstitutional. Assuming that's right, it seems like this would also fall under that.

Yeah...there's no way such a law would be constitutional. If that's what they want to do, their only real course of action would be to a) win the next election, and then b) hold a referendum on changing (or not changing, in this case) the electoral system. That doesn't necessarily bind future parliaments to referenda, but it establishes a precedent that changing the electoral system requires a referendum. I may not remember much from my undergrad years, but I remember that a Westminster system is all about established conventions. (Though even then, there'd be no reason for future parliaments to abide by that convention -- they could just as easily ignore it if they chose.)

 

[lupinko]

GSGFlash got banned why?

 

[maharg]

I recall reading somewhere that previous parliaments can't bind future parliaments. I think that was in regards to mandating balanced budgets or something, and how that would be unconstitutional. Assuming that's right, it seems like this would also fall under that.

Yep. Parliament can't be bound by anything other than the constitution. A bill to change the electoral system would just start off by striking out the sections of the election act requiring a referendum.

The only way they could make it binding would be by Reopening The Constitution.

 

[BigJonsson]

And how many voters actually want to have a constitutional fight?

 

[matthewwhatever]

To go by Harper and Mulcair, a lot. People are just clamouring to have a constitutional debate over the Senate, apparently. Though for Harper, I think he'll take anything he can get that stops people from looking at the economy.


Lots and lots of rumours apparently flying around the government that we may see a writ drop this weekend!

 

[BigJonsson]

CBC says the writ is dropping as early as Sunday....

 

[Coldnoodle]

CBC says the writ is dropping as early as Sunday....

79 days of fun.

 

[Pedrito]

I fail to see how it's a good move. Sure, they have more money to spend than the other parties, but do conservatives really think thay have a better chance of winning if people see Harper's mug on tv day after day for more than two months? I would think i'd have the opposite effect.

 

[Dr.Acula]

79 days of fun.

Of course all the campaign finance/donation laws have been fixed so that the C's have the deepest coffers. Fixed election dates are so stupid, no reason we can't have the vote a month from now.

I fail to see how it's a good move. Sure, they have more money to spend than the other parties, but do conservatives really think thay have a better chance of winning if people see Harper's mug on tv day after day for more than two months? I would think i'd have the opposite effect.

I can't wait for the commercials!

"Just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready."

 

[matthewwhatever]

The aim is to bombard the other two parties with negative ads so thoroughly that people are too disgusted to vote for anyone. Conservative voters are the most likely voters on account of their age, plus they're the least likely to switch to someone else. The plan, presumably, is to demotivate all but the most dedicated voters. They have the war chest to do it, and the other two parties don't have the cash to fight back over an extended campaign.

And if this winds up as a fractured minority parliament, and we go through it all again in a year, then the CPC goes into an election where their two rival parties are either broke or heavily in debt.

Of course all the campaign finance/donation laws have been fixed so that the C's have the deepest coffers. Fixed election dates are so stupid, no reason we can't have the vote a month from now.

Technically it was Chretien that changed the laws and got corporate money out of our elections. Harper just skewed it so that the CPC benefited a little more from the changes.

 

[Walpurgis]

Technically it was Chretien that changed the laws and got corporate money out of our elections. Harper just skewed it so that the CPC benefited a little more from the changes.

What the hell happened to the Liberal party? They used to be so good.

 

[killer rin]

The aim is to bombard the other two parties with negative ads so thoroughly that people are too disgusted to vote for anyone. Conservative voters are the most likely voters on account of their age, plus they're the least likely to switch to someone else. The plan, presumably, is to demotivate all but the most dedicated voters. They have the war chest to do it, and the other two parties don't have the cash to fight back over an extended campaign.

And if this winds up as a fractured minority parliament, and we go through it all again in a year, then the CPC goes into an election where their two rival parties are either broke or heavily in debt.


Technically it was Chretien that changed the laws and got corporate money out of our elections. Harper just skewed it so that the CPC benefited a little more from the changes

I get why they are doing it, its scummy though. Hopefully the NDP and Liberals decide that they have a better shot of winning if they unite in attacking the CPC instead of each other.

 

[explodet]

I can't wait for the commercials!

"Just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready."

How the FUCK do they know that Justin Trudeau thinks he was born to be Prime Minister?
Are they PSYCHIC?

Okay, I feel better now, sorry for the internet outburst.

I gotta figure out a way to block political ads from youtube.
At least I don't watch television anymore.

 

[Walpurgis]

How the FUCK do they know that Justin Trudeau thinks he was born to be Prime Minister?
Are they PSYCHIC?

Okay, I feel better now, sorry for the internet outburst.

I gotta figure out a way to block political ads from youtube.
At least I don't watch television anymore.

Use adblock. I only see ads on mobile since I can't find a working adblock on Android.

 

[eBay Huckster]

I fail to see how it's a good move. Sure, they have more money to spend than the other parties, but do conservatives really think thay have a better chance of winning if people see Harper's mug on tv day after day for more than two months? I would think i'd have the opposite effect.

yeah, if unlimited money in the States has shown us anything (granted in one high-turnout election so far, but still) it's that there's a saturation level for this before it starts backfiring, and knowing Harper he's gonna plow right through it

 

[matthewwhatever]

What happens at the saturation point, though? People tune out? Because that's pretty much what he's banking on.

What the hell happened to the Liberal party? They used to be so good.

...they've been out of power ten years. It's not like they've been able to do much since?

So are we doing an official #elxn42 OT for this, assuming the writ is indeed dropped on Sunday? I'd volunteer to do it, though I can't guarantee it won't just be pictures of Trudeau with little hearts added all over the place.

 

[SRG01]

CBC says the writ is dropping as early as Sunday....

Hopefully the Conservatives get eviscerated for it, just like the PCs did when they called an early election in Alberta.

 

[Mr.Mike]

What happens at the saturation point, though? People tune out? Because that's pretty much what he's banking on.



...they've been out of power ten years. It's not like they've been able to do much since?

So are we doing an official #elxn42 OT for this, assuming the writ is indeed dropped on Sunday? I'd volunteer to do it, though I can't guarantee it won't just be pictures of Trudeau with little hearts added all over the place.

I feel like a good way to go about this would be to have a new Canada PoliGaf thread started for every election. This one was started at about the beggining of the current governments term, so starting one for the election and using that one until the next election would be a nice way of archiving political "eras", as discussed on Neogaf.

 

[Walpurgis]

Hopefully the Conservatives get eviscerated for it, just like the PCs did when they called an early election in Alberta.

I wasn't following the news but did the country go into recession AFTER they called the early election?

I feel like a good way to go about this would be to have a new Canada PoliGaf thread started for every election. This one was started at about the beggining of the current governments term, so starting one for the election and using that one until the next election would be a nice way of archiving political "eras", as discussed on Neogaf.

I think we should wait for the winner before making a new poligaf thread. However, the election should also get its own thread for Sunday, imo. I don't know the rules but it should probably be kept out of community for the duration.

 

[Slavik81]

I can't wait for the commercials!

"Just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready, just not ready."

It's feels like that already. I'm getting 'stop the cuts' banners following me everywhere and their commercial rolls before every few videos on YouTube. It's somewhat annoying.

Though, the 'just not ready' ads are kind of enjoyable. They're light-hearted and beautifully crafted, yet totally ineffective.

 

[BigJonsson]

We need an election thread, I vote for that

 

[SRG01]

I wasn't following the news but did the country go into recession AFTER they called the early election?

If you meant to ask about Alberta, then no. Alberta was already hard hit when the election was called.

 

[killer rin]

I wasn't following the news but did the country go into recession AFTER they called the early election?


I think we should wait for the winner before making a new poligaf thread. However, the election should also get its own thread for Sunday, imo. I don't know the rules but it should probably be kept out of community for the duration.

I think a new Poligaf thread should be for when we confirm the winner. That way we can have the OP set to whatever cheer and or disappointment necessary. That said, we should definitely do a "Canadian Federal Election 2015 OT" in the main OT, just so we can pull in more people who wouldn't know to check the Community OT for Canadian Election stuff.

 

[Walpurgis]

If you meant to ask about Alberta, then no. Alberta was already hard hit when the election was called.

Why did they call an early election then...?

I think a new Poligaf thread should be for when we confirm the winner. That way we can have the OP set to whatever cheer and or disappointment necessary. That said, we should definitely do a "Canadian Federal Election 2015 OT" in the main OT, just so we can pull in more people who wouldn't know to check the Community OT for Canadian Election stuff.

Then it's settled. matthewwhatever can do the election thread in Off-Topic for Sunday (if he still wants to) and a new poligaf thread will be made in October.

edit: I think the U.K. election thread had a good format.

 

[killer rin]

Why did they call an early election then...?

Then it's settled. matthewwhatever can do the election thread in Off-Topic for Sunday (if he still wants to) and a new poligaf thread will be made in October.

edit: I think the U.K. election thread had a good format.

U.K Election thread does have a good format... we should steal it

 

[matthewwhatever]

Why did they call an early election then...?

Then it's settled. matthewwhatever can do the election thread in Off-Topic for Sunday (if he still wants to) and a new poligaf thread will be made in October.

edit: I think the U.K. election thread had a good format.

Sure, I can put something together. I'll keep the Trudeau gushing to a minimum.

And Prentice called the election early because he thought it would be an easy win. The Wildrose Party had only just picked a new leader, and they hadn't had time to organize (and the NDP was way, way back). It was crassly opportunistic on his part.

 

[SRG01]

Why did they call an early election then...?

Because he was trying to sell his budget (which backfired), eviscerated his only opposition on the right (which also backfired), and generally had a sense of entitlement of which all PCs within the last decade or more had.

The whole federal election could end up looking like the Alberta provincial election for one very important reason: the surging NDP.

Sure, I can put something together. I'll keep the Trudeau gushing to a minimum.

And Prentice called the election early because he thought it would be an easy win. The Wildrose Party had only just picked a new leader, and they hadn't had time to organize (and the NDP was way, way back). It was crassly opportunistic on his part.

Polls already showed that the NDP had decent support in Edmonton and Lethbridge when the writ was dropped. It was just a matter of breakthrough and momentum, especially after the debate.

 

[maharg]

Why did they call an early election then...?.

The realpolitik reasons have been covered, but the official line from Prentice was that he needed a mandate to pass a budget full of cuts. Which is actually not a terrible reason on its own, but the opportunism was clearly a bigger motivator.

 

[matthewwhatever]

The whole federal election could end up looking like the Alberta provincial election for one very important reason: the surging NDP.

Polls already showed that the NDP had decent support in Edmonton and Lethbridge when the writ was dropped. It was just a matter of breakthrough and momentum, especially after the debate.

The NDP has always had decent support in Edmonton -- there's a reason its nickname is "Redmonton". I don't think you could've extrapolated its support there beyond the city limits. As for momentum...I can't find any polling from before the election was called, but I can find plenty of stories from the day Prentice dropped the writ, and every single one of them talks about how the election would be a race for second place. Prentice called the election early because he thought winning was a sure thing.

And I'd think the Alberta lesson would be that elections are extremely unpredictable, and that a lot can change in five weeks. (That was also the lesson in the last Quebec election, the last Ontario election, the last BC election...I'm noticing a trend.) We're about to have an eleven week campaign...that's going to be a lot of unpredictability.

And the Conservatives have fired their first real shots at Mulcair...

On the one hand, I don't care what citizenship someone holds -- it was a stupid line of attack against Dion, and it fed into the obnoxious attacks on Ignatieff being less of a Canadian for having lived outside Canada. On the other hand, Jack Layton thought nothing of parroting Harper on the issue, so I kind of love the karmic aspect of it all.

And I know we talked about this a few pages ago, but that whole "Career Politician" thing is just...wow. And not just because that term fits Harper pretty perfectly, either. It takes a lot of chutzpah (and no sense of irony whatsoever) to bash one of your opponents for not being enough of a politician, and then turning around and saying that another of your opponents has spent too much time in politics. Presumably Harper occupies some crazy middle ground of "just enough of a politician".

 

[SRG01]

The NDP has always had decent support in Edmonton -- there's a reason its nickname is "Redmonton". I don't think you could've extrapolated its support there beyond the city limits. As for momentum...I can't find any polling from before the election was called, but I can find plenty of stories from the day Prentice dropped the writ, and every single one of them talks about how the election would be a race for second place. Prentice called the election early because he thought winning was a sure thing.

And I'd think the Alberta lesson would be that elections are extremely unpredictable, and that a lot can change in five weeks. (That was also the lesson in the last Quebec election, the last Ontario election, the last BC election...I'm noticing a trend.) We're about to have an eleven week campaign...that's going to be a lot of unpredictability.

I think we're actually saying the same thing. Prentice called his election assuming tepid support for his opponents, which turned out to be the opposite once the campaign got started.

 

[killer rin]

And the Conservatives have fired their first real shots at Mulcair...

There was also this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZpPjedslBA ...which is pretty hypocritical considering what the Conservatives have "stolen from taxpayers" dwarfs the numbers they put in the video

 

[Walpurgis]

There was also this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZpPjedslBA ...which is pretty hypocritical considering what the Conservatives have "stolen from taxpayers" dwarfs the numbers they put in the video

I've never heard of this NDP money siphoning thing but, as you said, the Conservatives are one to talk.

Conservatives spent more than $4.7 million fighting 15 losing court cases

The court process to keep mandatory minimum sentences for a variety of gun possession crimes and to keep a measure that abolished early parole has cost $1,076,992. The government lost one mandatory minimum case at the Supreme Court that combined two appeals, lost another at the Ontario Court of Appeal, and lost the appeal to the Supreme Court over early parole abolition.

The list of costs also shows the government spent:

$626,681 on two cases against Omar Khadr.
$852,911 to fight an allegation it unlawfully withdrew diplomatic services from Ronald Smith, a Canadian on death row in Montana.
$332,771 trying to force lawyers to turn over some client information to FINTRAC, the Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada.

I don't even know why they try.

Gov't pursuing a case they know is 'fiction': Khadr's lawyer

"It's fascinating what they say -- Blaney says, Harper says -- because the truth of the matter is they're lying and they know they're lying," said Edney.
“Canada should never have allowed Omar Khadr to be locked away in Guantanamo. Every other western country requested and were granted return of their returnees. The second part of that fiction that they create is that they know that there's no evidence to tie Omar Khadr to having thrown a hand grenade."
Khadr is currently serving an eight-year sentence handed down by a U.S. military commission in 2010. He's accused of killing an American soldier in 2002, but his lawyer argues he was a child soldier at the time. The Canadian citizen was held in Guantanamo Bay Prison until 2012, when he was transferred to a prison in Alberta.
Edney says he is impressed with the government's perseverance in their case against Khadr.
"The rule of law means nothing to this government. And within about five or 10 minutes of the ruling coming out, they obviously took no time to read the decision and immediately said they're appealing. And they're appealing on the backs of the taxpayer," he said.

This is just irresponsible and embarrassing.

 

[lupinko]

The NDP has always had decent support in Edmonton -- there's a reason its nickname is "Redmonton". I don't think you could've extrapolated its support there beyond the city limits. As for momentum...I can't find any polling from before the election was called, but I can find plenty of stories from the day Prentice dropped the writ, and every single one of them talks about how the election would be a race for second place. Prentice called the election early because he thought winning was a sure thing.

And I'd think the Alberta lesson would be that elections are extremely unpredictable, and that a lot can change in five weeks. (That was also the lesson in the last Quebec election, the last Ontario election, the last BC election...I'm noticing a trend.) We're about to have an eleven week campaign...that's going to be a lot of unpredictability.

And the Conservatives have fired their first real shots at Mulcair...



On the one hand, I don't care what citizenship someone holds -- it was a stupid line of attack against Dion, and it fed into the obnoxious attacks on Ignatieff being less of a Canadian for having lived outside Canada. On the other hand, Jack Layton thought nothing of parroting Harper on the issue, so I kind of love the karmic aspect of it all.

And I know we talked about this a few pages ago, but that whole "Career Politician" thing is just...wow. And not just because that term fits Harper pretty perfectly, either. It takes a lot of chutzpah (and no sense of irony whatsoever) to bash one of your opponents for not being enough of a politician, and then turning around and saying that another of your opponents has spent too much time in politics. Presumably Harper occupies some crazy middle ground of "just enough of a politician".

Doesn't surprise me, I mean Harper says this guy isn't Canadian either.

 

[maharg]

I don't even know why they try.

They've probably made double that on panicky fundraising emails about the activist judiciary and evil mainstream media lack of coverage.

 

[lupinko]

lol this pic cracks me up.

 

[Azih]

Alright. Mortgage Mulcair didn't stick and neither did unprincipled con salary seeking Mulcair. Let's see if Frenchie Mulcair is a label that works.

Hope Mulcair fights this bullshit head on. Unlike Dion who folded and gave up his citizenship.


Edit:The Layton quote is inspired though.

 

[matthewwhatever]

There was also this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZpPjedslBA ...which is pretty hypocritical considering what the Conservatives have "stolen from taxpayers" dwarfs the numbers they put in the video

As much as I'm on board with highlighting how the NDP scammed the government out of a few million dollars, I have a hard time seeing any of it sticking as an effective point of attack. Convoluted accounting scandals aren't sexy enough to keep people's attention, and the CPC should know that, having been behind that whole In & Out scandal a few years ago.


Susan Delacourt (Toronto Star) tweeted another way a long campaign helps the Conservatives: it costs news organizations $10k/week to have a single reporter on a party election tour bus. For an 11-week campaign, that's $110k per reporter. With three parties to cover closely, that's $330k, minimum. Not many media organizations have that kind of money. Is there anything about this extra-long campaign that isn't a scummy move on the part of the Conservatives?

 

[Kurdel]

I have a feeling this election wil' be long and painful.

 

[Simon Belmont]

So Harper still has yet to observe the 'fair elections act'?

 

[Pedrito]

So the new supreme court justice is even more awful than first thought:

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/natio...u-unspeakably-awful-hoped-for-harper-majority

And he's only 49 so he could be there for decades. I bet he'll have a fun time writing dissent after dissent.

Spoiler

or he could be a very good judge...who knows

 

[matthewwhatever]

Almost have the Election OT thread finished up. Anyone have any suggestions for a title, or will "Canada's 42nd General Election (OT): Vote October 19th!" suffice?

So Harper still has yet to observe the 'fair elections act'?

Technically, he's not breaking his own law again this time -- he's just taking advantage of the massive loophole he wrote into it that helps his party more than any other.

 

[gutter_trash]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/can...to-pull-out-of-broadcasters-debates-1.3175720

NDP threatens to pull out of broadcasters' debates

LOL why?

 

[mo60]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/can...to-pull-out-of-broadcasters-debates-1.3175720


LOL why?

I think the NDP figured out that it is pointless for mulcair to debate the Liberals without stephen harper being present at the debate. Debating with the liberals without the conservatives in the debate may also hurt their chances of forming government and may help the conservatives instead.

 

[Azih]

Libs and Dips tearing into each other for an hour straight only helps the Cons.

 

[gutter_trash]

http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/e...uceppe-candidat-dans-laurier-sainte-marie.php

Gilles Duceppe candidat dans Laurier-Sainte-Marie

Duceppe has chosen to run in his old original riding again (where I have been living for the last decade)

So Canada GAF; this Liberal supporter will be voting NDP for a 3rd time in a row because my disdain for the Bloc is bigger than my love for the Liberals

I just wish that the Bloc would go away forever so we could finally pick between Left, Center and Right instead of being forced to pick between Yes or No.