gutter_trash
Banned
wow, thread has gone to the dogs with the arguments why separation would be "good"
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Canadian Election 2011: Blue ocean, orange crush, and a red tide washed out to sea.
- Thread starter Zombie James
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Ether_Snake
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MalboroRed said:
The Canadian government will give 4 billion to Newfoundland to compete with Hydro Quebec, that means using our tax dollars to compete with ourselves when it never financed HQ, the Canadian government is not giving us the 2 billion for the tax harmonization that it has given the rest of Canada, and so on and so forth. We have been paying for the rest of Canada's growth with our taxes since forever, so don't pretend we're the ones who will lose something. Our money is paying for the development of oil sands in Alberta, it could go back to fund our own energetic development. We have everything to gain. We won't go bankrupt, everything checks and clicks.
BladeWorker
Member
I'm from Toronto, and a Leafs fan.gutter_trash said:
If not for Quebec, and specifically Montreal, I'd have to stay up really really late to watch the hockey playoffs.
Also, I don't want to have to go through customs just to get some delicious smoked meat and icewine.
Ether_Snake said:
You do realize that a lot of multinational corporations moved their headquarters to Ontario because of language laws. This is part of the reason why Toronto outgrew Montreal over the past few decades.
I'm very curious about about your portrayal of Quebec finances. Do you have any data that shows that there has been a net transfer of money out of Quebec into the rest of Canada? Last year, Quebec received $8 billion in equalization payments alone. That's more than half of the pot.
MalboroRed
Banned
Ether_Snake said:
Yeah forget about all the equalization payments Quebec has been receiving for years, if Quebec is such a "have" province it wouldn't be receiving the most out of all of the provinces, you're not financing shit with your taxes, you can take your taxes and the rest of us can save ourselves from having to fund all your programs, just go ahead and separate already.
gutter_trash
Banned
my dad says this:Draff said:
Mayor Jean Drapeau built Montreal,
Rene Levesque built Toronto
meaning that Levesque's 80 Referendum pushed so many business to flee to Toronto
Ether_Snake
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MalboroRed said:
Until Ontario was added, per-capita we are the province that receives the lowest share of of equalization payments.
PE: $2,422
NS: $1,672
NB: $2,257
QC: $1,071
ON: $27
MB: $1,700
You pretend that we get our proper share in the rest of the budget to make the half-truth claim that we get more than we deserve with equalization payments. For Defense, we get only 15% of the budget. For First Nations, we get only 9%. Fishing, 11% of the four billions. For agriculture, 11% of the 6 billions. We have 0% for the development of the Agence de développement des maritimes, and zero for lAgence de développement de lOuest.
Meanwhile we have to finance Hydro Quebec ourselves but the fed will give 4B to NL so they can sell their electricity to the US. Yet that money includes our money we pay in taxes. So we are paying to compete against ourselves to finance something through the federal government for NL that we had to pay for ourselves from A to Z.
This is just the tip of the iceberg really.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Old news? Iggy got a job teaching at UofT.
At Issue Panel Bonus twitter Q&A
Today's broadcast of course will be made available tomorrow morning. I thought the discussion they had more or less reflected things discussed in this thread.
Yeah he got the offer today.
Actually, CBC has a great piece giving a bit of background. The Munk Centre had offered him another position last year and the Liberals shot it down as Ignatieff still wanted to be Prime Minister.
But it's good that someone who failed at an election can get a job right away in this economy.
Today's broadcast of course will be made available tomorrow morning. I thought the discussion they had more or less reflected things discussed in this thread.
firehawk12 said:
Yeah he got the offer today.
Actually, CBC has a great piece giving a bit of background. The Munk Centre had offered him another position last year and the Liberals shot it down as Ignatieff still wanted to be Prime Minister.
But it's good that someone who failed at an election can get a job right away in this economy.
I kid I kid
MalboroRed
Banned
Ether_Snake said:
God forbid you get fewer handouts "per capita" than the smaller east coast provinces surviving on seasonal industries, the fact that Ontario received fewer handouts and Alberta receiving none, and you're bitching about Quebec not getting enough pretty much says it all about the ridiculousness of the notion that Quebec is somehow financing the rest of Canada.
Like I said, go ahead and hold another referendum, let's see what happens when we cut you off completely.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Hah, the abortion issue came up again.Deku said:
I can't believe I agree with Coyne on this issue, even though I generally disagree with him.
MalboroRed
Banned
firehawk12 said:
Harper is too much of a pragmatist to even touch the abortion issue but I agree with Coyne that it should be debated, let people have their voice and LET THE MAJORITY WIN OUT, that's how democracy works.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
It'd be a great way to also crap on the Liberal party since I'm sure some of them would vote to criminalize abortion. And who knows how many of these new NDP members might have crazy ideas about abortion either?MalboroRed said:
Coyne also keeps insisting that the Liberals will never merge with the NDP. Well, the reality is that either something happens or both parties will end up fighting for official opposition status next time around.
MalboroRed
Banned
firehawk12 said:
I think there are two camps, you'll have the centrist liberals refusing to merge to preserve the party and leftists and opportunists like Bob Rae who would love to merge given Layton is suffering from prostate cancer and might be on borrowed time and he can essentially take over the party as the leader of the opposition while someone like Justin Trudeau might not be as comfortable in a party that isn't daddy's, a party that might not be so eager to groom him like a crown prince.
I don't think right now is a good time to merge for the Liberals because the NDP side would have way too much leverage and their popularity right now is way too inflated as their sweep of Quebec might very well be a huge fluke.
gutter_trash
Banned
i find the thing about Ruth Ellen Rousseau to be hilarious;
don't blame the candidate if she wins by 6000 votes; blame the voters.
this exposers voters to be compeltely badly informed and exposes them for not knowing what they are voting for..epecially Quebeckes.
if a clown runs for MP and wins by a large count; then the clown won. Democracy = Democracy
the NDP didn't expect to win as big as they did and like ALL parties; they usually fill up ''UN-Winnable'' ridings with lamp-post candidates
but when these actually win LOL .. hey that's democracy. You voted for that, that's what you got
people wanting her to resign should SHUT THE FUCK UP and only blame themselves.
Get informed BEFORE voting, not after
Ruth Ellen Rousseau got elected, and that's democracy.
don't blame the candidate if she wins by 6000 votes; blame the voters.
this exposers voters to be compeltely badly informed and exposes them for not knowing what they are voting for..epecially Quebeckes.
if a clown runs for MP and wins by a large count; then the clown won. Democracy = Democracy
the NDP didn't expect to win as big as they did and like ALL parties; they usually fill up ''UN-Winnable'' ridings with lamp-post candidates
but when these actually win LOL .. hey that's democracy. You voted for that, that's what you got
people wanting her to resign should SHUT THE FUCK UP and only blame themselves.
Get informed BEFORE voting, not after
Ruth Ellen Rousseau got elected, and that's democracy.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
Likely old news, but I was disappointed when the clock struck 7:00PM on Monday and then we immediately saw the Conservatives with over 100 seats. I guess elections aren't terribly dramatic.
MalboroRed
Banned
Socreges said:
I'm frankly baffled by the fact that the NDP didn't even try to stick a cardboard cut-out or somebody's pet dog on the ballot in a Quebec riding, because it might have won.
MalboroRed
Banned
maharg said:
I read in the national post that they get severance pay for being kicked out of office, either way it's going to be pretty sweet, all for doing jack shit.
gutter_trash
Banned
I firmly believe that the media is overflowing this since this is a slow news week since the campaign shut down.
Denis Coderre is a total moron for making a complaint against Ruth Ellen Rousseau.
I'm a traditional Liberal and i hate Coderre; he is an inflated controversy chaser and has it super easy sitting an traditional Liberal riding populated by Italian-Canadians.
fuck Denis Coderre and he better stay out of the leadership race
Ruth Ellen Rousseau was democratically elected and deserves it; you just don't win by 6000+ votes as a fluke. She won; who cares if she is a n00b; that's democracy
first interview with her:
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/le-nouvel...2_acc-manchettes-dimanche_369233_accueil_POS2
sound link included
Denis Coderre is a total moron for making a complaint against Ruth Ellen Rousseau.
I'm a traditional Liberal and i hate Coderre; he is an inflated controversy chaser and has it super easy sitting an traditional Liberal riding populated by Italian-Canadians.
fuck Denis Coderre and he better stay out of the leadership race
Ruth Ellen Rousseau was democratically elected and deserves it; you just don't win by 6000+ votes as a fluke. She won; who cares if she is a n00b; that's democracy
first interview with her:
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/le-nouvel...2_acc-manchettes-dimanche_369233_accueil_POS2
sound link included
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Yeah, I saw that soon after. I dunno, as much power that the NDP have now, they must know it's fleeting. I just don't want to live in a country that will have had 15+ years of Conservative rule just because of a crappy opposition.Deku said:
mentalfloss
Banned
EvilMario said:Another photo too. It's really coming together for her now.
Damn.
gutter_trash
Banned
what a corporate sell out with a pudgy faceDeku said:
BladeWorker
Member
gutter_trash said:
He's centre right and has always been. I've always liked him. It's pretty amazing what people tolerated when there is Liberal paint
He was Finance Minister, Foreign Affairs minister and Deputy Prime Minister in his time under the old Chretien coalition.
The faux strikeout conservative bit is if this came from a Conservative candidate, he would be criticized unfairly for being far right.
BladeWorker
Member
I liked the part where he talked about the federal government not knowing beans about how to run health care.Deku said:He's centre right and has always been. I've always liked him. It's pretty amazing what people tolerated when there is Liberal paint
He was Finance Minister, Foreign Affairs minister and Deputy Prime Minister in his time under the old Chretien coalition.
The faux strikeout conservative bit is if this came from a Conservative candidate, he would be criticized unfairly for being far right.
demonstrated a lucid understanding of the federal role in health care - setting the national priorities, not the process rites - not heard for years.
dragonfart28
Banned
Just wanted to post about a Canadian forum in here:
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/
It's a pretty good alternative to the OT, especially regarding politics.
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/
It's a pretty good alternative to the OT, especially regarding politics.
BladeWorker
Member
I'll have to spend a little bit more time browsing there, but the gun control thread made me want to vomit.dragonfart28 said:
Pardon me for believing that things that have no purpose other than killing should be heavily restricted, and the more dangerous of the lot banned altogether for the general population.
dragonfart28
Banned
BladeWorker said:
Yea, it has its share of crazy conservatives but I have a feeling it's the most widely viewed public Canadian forum and that holds a lot of sway. That's why we need some gaffers in there.
Zombie James
Banned
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2011/05/12/clement-gasoline-prices.html
Feeling another 0.5% better. I hope to get to 5% by 2015.
Feeling another 0.5% better. I hope to get to 5% by 2015.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Man, I haven't been paying attention but the massive LibDem defeat in the UK has me a bit worried about what will happen to the NDP down the line. Of course, the dynamics are different, but now I'm starting to have a feeling that there's nowhere to go but down for them now.
Of course, the massive defeat of AV is disappointing as well.
Oh yeah, the fact that the SNP won is also kind of interesting as well... especially since people think a PQ victory in Quebec is almost assured next time around. Both countries will be going through separation/independence pains in the coming years, surely.
Of course, the massive defeat of AV is disappointing as well.
Oh yeah, the fact that the SNP won is also kind of interesting as well... especially since people think a PQ victory in Quebec is almost assured next time around. Both countries will be going through separation/independence pains in the coming years, surely.
Ether_Snake
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firehawk12 said:
Liberals will go to the right to get back Conservative votes. NDP will lose a few seats at least in the next elections as a result, maybe even a return of the Bloc. Which means Conservative minority in four years (or worst, majority), and then potentially a coalition.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Where do the Liberals come back from though? They don't really have a base to build on, even if they decide to lean on John Manley/Paul Martin Liberals.
But really, I just have a feeling that the protest vote won't last. It took a little over a year for the LibDems to lose all the support they gained and chances are they're going to become irrelevant again after the next election... and that's with their party as part of the government. In official opposition, the NDP are even more irrelevant. Although I guess Quebec should be used to that after a couple of decades of the Bloc. :lol
But really, I just have a feeling that the protest vote won't last. It took a little over a year for the LibDems to lose all the support they gained and chances are they're going to become irrelevant again after the next election... and that's with their party as part of the government. In official opposition, the NDP are even more irrelevant. Although I guess Quebec should be used to that after a couple of decades of the Bloc. :lol
dragonfart28
Banned
TheRagnCajun
Member
dragonfart28 said:
oh comeon this will be fun!
It begins:
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news...ent+moving+party+subsidies/4817037/story.html
Party subsidies being turfed. Bah.
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news...ent+moving+party+subsidies/4817037/story.html
Party subsidies being turfed. Bah.
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