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Canadian PoliGAF - 42nd Parliament: Sunny Ways in Trudeaupia

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G

gutter_trash

Banned
CPC are in a strange situation because many fiscal conservative red tories can't see themselves voting for the Refo- uh, Canadian Alia-- uh, Conservatives as it stands today

Harper has been the only leader of this new Conservative party and he is the embodiment, spirit, essence, flavor, aura of this new Conservative party. He is the party.

It is highly difficult for them to grow out of their Reformist Western Alienated mold to try to get some P back into their C

Red Tories are long gone. I fail to see how a new leader can try to get some P into that party to remove the Harper mark
 
F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
If we get an MMP system, it might make more sense for there to be several regional conservative parties as opposed to one party, like the Coalition in Australia. So you can have your centrist Tories in Ontario/Quebec/Atlantic Canada and your Wild Rose Tories in Alberta and then have them form up via an informal coalition (with the leader being from the Central/Eastern Canada wing and the deputy being from the Alberta wing).

It'd be one way to contain the "crazy" of the more hardline Conservatives, but also let the richer fiscally conservative Central Canadians feel good about voting for a party of tax cuts and balanced budgets and secret trade agreements.
 
B

Boogie

Member
The Last Emperor said:
Not surprised at the "old stock" Canadians who are pissed at the diversity of the cabinet

"How can Trudeau give national defense to a dude with a brown guy. How do we know he's not an undercover Islamist"

Lmao
Click to expand...

Was in the gym yesterday afternoon with the news on, older known-to-be-crotchety guy also working out, when Sajjan came on the screen.

Guy goes "Oh, the new defence minister is a Sikh? That won't go over very well in the forces."

Me: "Well, actually he was a Lieutenant-Colonel in the Forces himself and did three tours in Afghanistan. He was also a VPD copper for 11 years."

him: "Oh! Well he'll be all right then."

smh




firehawk12 said:
Anyone follow British politics? The British government tried to pass a bill that basically fucks the poor, and the House of Lords punted it back. It's like living in 2009 all over again. They are even threatening to stuff the House with more Conservative peerages or even musing about abolishing the entire House entirely. lol

(The funniest part is that Andrew Lloyd Webber is involved in all of this)
Click to expand...

Why does it always seem like you talk more about British and Australian politics in this thread than Canadian politics? :p
 
F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
Boogie said:
Why does it always seem like you talk more about British and Australian politics in this thread than Canadian politics? :p
Click to expand...
Because it's so similar and funny to see. This year the UK went through a sovereignty election and now a crisis with their "Senate".

Australia's interesting because they use AV for House elections and they've basically boiled it down to two sides. It's like looking into a parallel universe where we didn't feel so terribly beholden to replicating Westminster traditions.
 
G

gabbo

Member
gutter_trash said:
CPC are in a strange situation because many fiscal conservative red tories can't see themselves voting for the Refo- uh, Canadian Alia-- uh, Conservatives as it stands today

Harper has been the only leader of this new Conservative party and he is the embodiment, spirit, essence, flavor, aura of this new Conservative party. He is the party.

It is highly difficult for them to grow out of their Reformist Western Alienated mold to try to get some P back into their C

Red Tories are long gone. I fail to see how a new leader can try to get some P into that party to remove the Harper mark
Click to expand...

Will that actually be a problem? Harper ignored issues that would fall under 'Progressive', you know, social issues, instead focusing on the economic issues full bore. People still voted for him/not the Liberals. It might be detrimental to the next leader to try and change course too much
 
F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
gabbo said:
Will that actually be a problem? Harper ignored issues that would fall under 'Progressive', you know, social issues, instead focusing on the economic issues full bore. People still voted for him/not the Liberals. It might be detrimental to the next leader to try and change course too much
Click to expand...

Well, the other thing is that Harper was a Western boy, so which is probably a huge part of why the Alberta base supported him regardless of his move away from social conservatism.
 
A

Alavard

Member
firehawk12 said:
Well, the other thing is that Harper was a Western boy, so which is probably a huge part of why the Alberta base supported him regardless of his move away from social conservatism.
Click to expand...

I'm always amazed that people saw him as such a genuine 'Western boy', since he lived in Toronto until he was at least 18.
 
D

Dr.Guru of Peru

played the long game
Alavard said:
I'm always amazed that people saw him as such a genuine 'Western boy', since he lived in Toronto until he was at least 18.
Click to expand...

Aren't most Albertans originally from somewhere else? I think after 30+ years in a place, you can start being considered a local.
 
M

Madness

Member
A few people on my facebook feed didn't like the diversity in some of the new cabinet members, especially guys like Harjit Sajjan the new defense minister. Pisses me off though. The guy did 3 tours in Afghanistan, was a member of the VPD gang task force for over a decade, peacekeeping in Bosnia, and yet completely invalidated because of the color of his skin by these guys. Guys who probably would never once step out of BC to fight for Canada overseas etc.
 
A

Alavard

Member
Dr.Guru of Peru said:
Aren't most Albertans originally from somewhere else? I think after 30+ years in a place, you can start being considered a local.
Click to expand...

There's often a difference in perception between a 'local' and someone who was born in raised in an area. And yet, Harper has never really been affected by that, which has always surprised me a little.
 
G

gabbo

Member
Madness said:
A few people on my facebook feed didn't like the diversity in some of the new cabinet members, especially guys like Harjit Sajjan the new defense minister. Pisses me off though. The guy did 3 tours in Afghanistan, was a member of the VPD gang task force for over a decade, peacekeeping in Bosnia, and yet completely invalidated because of the color of his skin by these guys. Guys who probably would never once step out of BC to fight for Canada overseas etc.
Click to expand...

A few on mine are up in arms about "diversity over merit" being sexism. These tend to be of the 'libertarian' persuasion
 
M

matthewwhatever

Member
The census returns in about 10 minutes: An announcement from Canada's newly minted innovation minister on "access to high-quality data"?

Madness said:
A few people on my facebook feed didn't like the diversity in some of the new cabinet members, especially guys like Harjit Sajjan the new defense minister. Pisses me off though. The guy did 3 tours in Afghanistan, was a member of the VPD gang task force for over a decade, peacekeeping in Bosnia, and yet completely invalidated because of the color of his skin by these guys. Guys who probably would never once step out of BC to fight for Canada overseas etc.
Click to expand...

That's when you know it's time to lose the people on your FB feed!

And speaking of crazy bigots, the Sun not only gave their best wishes to Trudeau -- unsarcastically, too! -- they ran an opinion piece saying that he'd picked a strong cabinet. These are crazy times we're living in!
 
S

Silver Arrows

Banned
Madness said:
A few people on my facebook feed didn't like the diversity in some of the new cabinet members, especially guys like Harjit Sajjan the new defense minister. Pisses me off though. The guy did 3 tours in Afghanistan, was a member of the VPD gang task force for over a decade, peacekeeping in Bosnia, and yet completely invalidated because of the color of his skin by these guys. Guys who probably would never once step out of BC to fight for Canada overseas etc.
Click to expand...

I know my dad is probably seething on the inside, considering he hates Hindus and Sikhs (That mostly come from his times as a truck driver)

Considering his qualifications, he is well suited for the job.
 
M

massivekettle

Member
Stet said:
*Dion seen as a farce in his native Quebec*
*Was elected with 61% of the votes in his native Quebec*
*Has been the MP for his riding since 1996 in his native Quebec*
Click to expand...

You obviously missed the point. In 2008, the Bloc won like 50 seats when Dion ran for PM (Liberals got shut out of Quebec). Voting in his riding is irrelevant.
 
S

Silexx

Member
ksharp said:
You obviously missed the point. In 2008, the Bloc won like 50 seats when Dion ran for PM (Liberals got shut out of Quebec). Voting in his riding is irrelevant.
Click to expand...

Actually, he picked up a seat in QC compared to the last election. :p

Point is, under Dion, Quebec is the only province the Liberals actually maintained or improved on, they saw losses in every other province. So I don't quite understand your fixation on Dion's image in Quebec.
 
G

gutter_trash

Banned
ksharp said:
You obviously missed the point. In 2008, the Bloc won like 50 seats when Dion ran for PM (Liberals got shut out of Quebec). Voting in his riding is irrelevant.
Click to expand...

the leader of the Bloc lost twice in Laurier-Ste-Marie (2011 and 2015)

2006 was the culmination of the Gomery Commision that hiked the Bloc vote up. 2008 was still fresh and the Sponsorship Scandal sour taste was still in their mouthes.

2015 nearly 9 years later, most of the old faces are gone. Only a few veterans were selected in Trudeau's cabinet, and of those old timers that Trudeau picked are the ones who were the cleanest.

The Bloc by popular vote performed worse in 2015 than in 2011, they are on the same decline as the Social Credit or le Credit Social

Do you remember the Créditistes? Nope? well the same will happen to the Bloc
 
P

Pedrito

Member
Dion was/is seen as an awkward nerd in Quebec and he pissed off a bunch of separatists a few years back, but no one who isn't a partisan hack doubts his intellegence or competence.
 
G

gutter_trash

Banned
Pedrito said:
Dion was/is seen as an awkward nerd in Quebec and he pissed off a bunch of separatists a few years back, but no one who isn't a partisan hack doubts his intellegence or competence.
Click to expand...

his green thumb environmental stances outweigh his staunch Canadian Unity stance.

Young people of today are more concerned on the fate of the planet than the fate of imaginary borders
 
M

Madness

Member
gabbo said:
A few on mine are up in arms about "diversity over merit" being sexism. These tend to be of the 'libertarian' persuasion
Click to expand...

Yeah that argument is being used a lot. "What happened to hiring someone based on their ability and not their gender or skin color". Just sad. I mean a lot of these members have never been this experienced with what they've been tasked. It's not like Trudeau placed randoms into these positions.

Silver Arrows said:
I know my dad is probably seething on the inside, considering he hates Hindus and Sikhs (That mostly come from his times as a truck driver)

Considering his qualifications, he is well suited for the job.
Click to expand...

That's sad, I mean I don't give your dad grief for why he thinks what he thinks, but don't see why his issues with Sikhs or Hindus in the trucking business would apply to everyone. I hate that generalization. And people of colour suffer the most from it. But yeah, even some comments were dumb things like "I guess beef is banned in army barracks now", "ISIS will probably love the familiar curry smell" etc. It is what it is though. You'd think a guy who spent over a decade in one of the largest cities dealing with gangs, who was lauded for how he approached and studied the Taliban in Kandahar and did three tours there, he'd know a thing or two about being defense minister, what Canada's role should be in world policing/peacekeeping duties.
 
G

gabbo

Member
Madness said:
Yeah that argument is being used a lot. "What happened to hiring someone based on their ability and not their gender or skin color". Just sad. I mean a lot of these members have never been this experienced with what they've been tasked. It's not like Trudeau placed randoms into these positions.
Click to expand...

I secretly think those people are just using that argument to cover for misogynist/racist feelings, because they all seem suited to their ministries
 
S

Simon Belmont

Banned
Madness said:
That's sad, I mean I don't give your dad grief for why he thinks what he thinks, but don't see why his issues with Sikhs or Hindus in the trucking business would apply to everyone. I hate that generalization. And people of colour suffer the most from it. But yeah, even some comments were dumb things like "I guess beef is banned in army barracks now", "ISIS will probably love the familiar curry smell" etc. It is what it is though. You'd think a guy who spent over a decade in one of the largest cities dealing with gangs, who was lauded for how he approached and studied the Taliban in Kandahar and did three tours there, he'd know a thing or two about being defense minister, what Canada's role should be in world policing/peacekeeping duties.
Click to expand...

I used to work at the border dealing with tonnes of truck drivers. I rarely had trouble with Sikhs and Hindus. It was mostly white folks that gave me grief.

Edit: Hey the Census is officially back!
 
K

killer rin

Member
That's amazing news! So far so good

Silexx said:
Nitpicking time!

Bains says that they are not going to bring back the theoretical jail penalty for the mandatory form. He's also not said what, if any, penalties they would impose on those who would refuse to fill in the form. Basically, it doesn't seem all that mandatory.
Click to expand...
Eh, they'll probably just slap people with a thousand dollar fine. That'll get em to respond
 
P

Pedrito

Member
Silexx said:
Nitpicking time!

Bains says that they are not going to bring back the theoretical jail penalty for the mandatory form. He's also not said what, if any, penalties they would impose on those who would refuse to fill in the form. Basically, it doesn't seem all that mandatory.
Click to expand...

Well he probably doesn't want to end up on the front page of Toronto Sun on his third day in office with the headline:

"Immigrant will put you in jail for not divulging your deepest secrets".
 
S

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
Silexx said:
Nitpicking time!

Bains says that they are not going to bring back the theoretical jail penalty for the mandatory form. He's also not said what, if any, penalties they would impose on those who would refuse to fill in the form. Basically, it doesn't seem all that mandatory.
Click to expand...

I'm not too troubled, they can almost certainly get the information they need even if there is a shirking rate. Followups, reminders, and leaning on people + a general norm of participation will get compliance. I think we'll do it. Canadians want to help out with this stuff. If Farmers Who Mow Messages Into Their Crops So Passing Planes See That They Really Like Guns want to live free or die their way out of the census pool, *shrug*
 
M

MeBecomingI

Member
Boogie said:
Oh yay, Goodale is talking about what a steep learning curve he has. :-/
Click to expand...

Boogie said:
I think, reading more about Sajjan, that with his mix of experience of 11 years as a VPD police officer, in addition to being an intelligence officer in the army when in Afghanistan, I would have liked to see him as Public Safety, because of the mix of security agencies it is responsible for (RCMP, CSIS, CBSA), and then thrown Andrew Leslie in as Defence Minister.

Ah well.
Click to expand...

I'd rather him be honest and open about the challenges he faces in his position than put on some facade about how super easy it will be to responsible for the RCMP, CBSA, Correctional Service of Canada, National Parole Board, etc. Yeah, it's gonna be a tough job, especially considering he is ultimately responsible for fixing C-51 and that wouldn't be an enviable position to be in considering how sensitive the topic is. Not surprisingly, a lot of people are saying Goodale in this role is a fantastic choice because he doesn't carry much baggage, if any at all, with him into the role and because we're gonna have someone who is going to be much more sensitive to civil liberties because of his experience in public office as opposed to police or some intelligence agency. This isn't some simple, easy job. Trudeau put in one of the most well respected politicians in our country to head Public Safety... which is a pretty important position (especially in a security sensitive world) and definitely shows that Trudeau is taking security and safety seriously. It's also a position that keeps Goodale in Trudeau's close cabinet, which is good.

The choice has grown on me for sure. I was surprised at first, but he is a good choice.
 
C

CitizenVectron

Member
Silexx said:
Nitpicking time!

Bains says that they are not going to bring back the theoretical jail penalty for the mandatory form. He's also not said what, if any, penalties they would impose on those who would refuse to fill in the form. Basically, it doesn't seem all that mandatory.
Click to expand...

Something like a $50 fine would be enough for most people to do it. Also, even if you just call it mandatory people will tend to do it.
 
S

SRG01

Member
Silexx said:
Nitpicking time!

Bains says that they are not going to bring back the theoretical jail penalty for the mandatory form. He's also not said what, if any, penalties they would impose on those who would refuse to fill in the form. Basically, it doesn't seem all that mandatory.
Click to expand...

Just give everyone a small nominal gift like a $10 Tim Horton's card and I guarantee you everyone will be lining up to fill out the long-form every year.
 
L

Layell

Member
Silexx said:
It is apparently unclear at this moment if Defense Minister Harjit Sajjan is still a member of the Canadian Forces, which would be an interesting dilemma since as a Lt Colonel he would still be obligated to take orders from the Chief of the Defence Staff Gen. Jon Vance.

the Chief of the Defence Staff Gen. Jon Vance
Click to expand...

want to edit that url there?

Anyways it is clear Minister Sajjan is in a new league of Defense Minister: http://www.nationalobserver.com/201...a-how-badass-trudeaus-defence-minister-really

A 2006 letter of appreciation for Sajjan's services from the commander of Canada’s Coalition Task Force in Afghanistan has surfaced, and it reads like a Bourne Trilogy movie script.

Sajjan was considered “the best single Canadian intelligence asset in [war] theater” whose "hard work, personal bravery and dogged determination undoubtedly saved a multitude of Coalition lives," according to the letter, recently obtained by National Observer.

He's further credited with providing the intelligence foundation for a military operation resulting in the "kill or capture" of 1,500 Taliban fighters.
Click to expand...

Who is dare going to say the man isn't qualified?
 
M

matthewwhatever

Member
Apparently the Conservatives are still in caucus, trying to pick an interim leader. Harper showed up at the beginning, gave a speech, and then bolted from the room through a back door after ten minutes.
 
P

PumpkinSpice

Banned
matthewwhatever said:
Apparently the Conservatives are still in caucus, trying to pick an interim leader. Harper showed up at the beginning, gave a speech, and then bolted from the room through a back door after ten minutes.
Click to expand...

I really hope they pick someone good for the job. Even though I like Trudeau and voted Liberal it's very important to have a strong opposition in any parliament.
 
M

matthewwhatever

Member
SheepyGuy said:
I really hope they pick someone good for the job. Even though I like Trudeau and voted Liberal it's very important to have a strong opposition in any parliament.
Click to expand...

Agreed. As much as I want one party to win, at some point they're not going to, and when that happens I'd like the alternatives to be as sane and intelligent as possible.
 
S

Sean C

Member
matthewwhatever said:
Agreed. As much as I want one party to win, at some point they're not going to, and when that happens I'd like the alternatives to be as sane and intelligent as possible.
Click to expand...
When that doesn't happen, you end up with the American system, where the alternative to the Democrats is a band of sociopathic morons. Just watch a single GOP debate and be utterly terrified at the prospect of any of them with the nuclear launch codes.

Since the cabinet prediction game is over, I'm going to guess that Rob Nicholson is elected as interim leader.
 
C

CitizenVectron

Member
Line of "succession" is announced in case something happens to Trudeau (of course these people in this order wouldn't become PM, they'd simply assume his responsibility until a new PM is selected, or he is able to resume work: http://www.pco-bcp.gc.ca/oic-ddc.as...+/+List&pg=7&viewattach=31592&blnDisplayFlg=1

The Honourable Ralph Goodale
The Honourable Lawrence MacAulay
The Honourable Stéphane Dion
The Honourable John McCallum
The Honourable Carolyn Bennett
The Honourable Scott Brison
The Honourable Dominic LeBlanc
The Honourable Navdeep Singh Bains
The Honourable William Francis Morneau
The Honourable Jody Wilson-Raybould
The Honourable Judy M. Foote
The Honourable Chrystia Freeland
The Honourable Jane Philpott
The Honourable Jean-Yves Duclos
The Honourable Marc Garneau
The Honourable Marie-Claude Bibeau
The Honourable James Gordon Carr
The Honourable Mélanie Joly
The Honourable Diane Lebouthillier
The Honourable Kent Hehr
The Honourable Catherine McKenna
The Honourable Harjit Singh Sajjan
The Honourable MaryAnn Mihychuk
The Honourable Amarjeet Sohi
The Honourable Maryam Monsef
The Honourable Carla Qualtrough
The Honourable Hunter Tootoo
The Honourable Kirsty Duncan
The Honourable Patricia A. Hajdu
The Honourable Bardish Chagger

Not surprised to see Goodale at the top. Poor Bardish Chagger, lol.
 
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