sixteen-bit
Member
Still hurt over Vampire 4Wiseblade said:
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Capcom's Yoshinori Ono X shidoshi = A conversation about Poison
- Thread starter mollipen
- Start date
Criminal Upper said:
Goggle Futanari and watch Bible Black. Your welcome. Guess I understand why people outside of Japan would confuse Poison as transgender since she's a woman with a dick, but in Japan they've had the whole Girl's with dicks for many years in hentai/doujins work. They call it Futanari now. There not male's turn into transgender.
sixteen-bit
Member
His welcome?ZoddGutts said:
vocab, I would avatar quote you, but i didn't wanted to get my mouse near your post because it would get dirty =P
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I'm the only person here a little concerned with the GLAAD thing ?
Theoricaly the most "politicaly correct" form would be ... giving no references to this at all.
I mean ... there are very few ways that i can think that you can give a good reference to that kind of backstory without sounding like "i'm not a real woman" ...
Maybe something like "Ryu ! I was your fan since i was a little boy" or some crap forced agenda thing like "Ok, fight is over, time to take my hormones" ...
Also ... why took so long to get it published ?
---------
I'm the only person here a little concerned with the GLAAD thing ?
Theoricaly the most "politicaly correct" form would be ... giving no references to this at all.
I mean ... there are very few ways that i can think that you can give a good reference to that kind of backstory without sounding like "i'm not a real woman" ...
Maybe something like "Ryu ! I was your fan since i was a little boy" or some crap forced agenda thing like "Ok, fight is over, time to take my hormones" ...
Also ... why took so long to get it published ?
dragonlife
Member
Good read. Thanks for posting it on GAF, or I would have surely missed it 
sixteen-bit
Member
An engine doesn't generate or dictate character models.Korigama said:
Hell, your beloved MvC3 and SFxTK use the same engine.
Not seeing the need to get so defensive about it (seriously, not that big a deal). Either way, it is indeed about the art style (it's my opinion that it doesn't suit the Tekken cast any better than Capcom's crew as it is, and wouldn't really be suitable for SNK either)._dementia said:
Projectjustice
Banned
Here's the answer in Japan Poison is a girl. When I played Final Fight in the 90s in the arcade she was a girl. She is a girl.
End of story.
End of story.
AquaticSquirrel
Member
Hmm it is certainly an interesting issue but I can't say it's really something of great importance either way.
On the one hand it seems that Ono wants Poison to be transgendered for diversity in roster etc... however the marketing control at Capcom doesn't want to offend people so they have tied his hands in regards to that.
I mean if they make her trans, then Capcom could easily offend that community by her portrayal if they are not careful. Then you also have the risk of alienating people who although immature might have an issue with that so Capcom is protecting their brand/potential sales.
On the other hand this whole situation is a like remnant of bad design decisions during localization of Japanese games in the west. The character was a woman when created by the original dev team and silly outside interference by marketing caused a change. So it is somewhat ironic that the same reason that this Poison situation exists in the first place is the same reason she won't be officially trans now: Marketing.
I tend to be a purist when it comes to people messing with other peoples work so I'm inclined to believe that due to Poison being a woman originally and the trans situation being the result of silly localization issues that she is a woman, was then and is now. At least that is my view on it.
I think allot of this situation and people putting so much emphasis on it comes from a certain level of projection. I don't mean that in a derogatory way, I view it more like the Bert and Earnie thing from Sesamee St.
I mean here you have two puppets from a children's TV show from god knows how many years ago now who happen to share the same bed, it's completely innocent. And yet there are people who latch onto the idea that they are gay and as such the idea gained so much momentum that they are now considered symbols of the Gay and Lesbian community.
I think it is a similar situation with Poison, at least partially anyway.
I think it's great that such icons exist, but I'm not mad on the idea of distorting someone else's creation/image/message/character/work etc... into something it was not intended to be even if that newer image helps lots of people feel more represented in society.
I guess it's just an issue of original intent for me. But it's the same reason I watch films in their original language with subs etc... I hope I've explained my points correctly because I'd hate for anyone to misunderstand and take offense by anything I've said.
Of course in general it doesn't bother me what the official stance on the character is, either trans or a woman, either one wouldn't stop me from picking that character in the game. However I think in the grand scheme of things there are bigger issues for the trans community to focus on than this and trying to make it into some sort of equal representation issue just seems intellectually dishonest to me at least.
On the one hand it seems that Ono wants Poison to be transgendered for diversity in roster etc... however the marketing control at Capcom doesn't want to offend people so they have tied his hands in regards to that.
I mean if they make her trans, then Capcom could easily offend that community by her portrayal if they are not careful. Then you also have the risk of alienating people who although immature might have an issue with that so Capcom is protecting their brand/potential sales.
On the other hand this whole situation is a like remnant of bad design decisions during localization of Japanese games in the west. The character was a woman when created by the original dev team and silly outside interference by marketing caused a change. So it is somewhat ironic that the same reason that this Poison situation exists in the first place is the same reason she won't be officially trans now: Marketing.
I tend to be a purist when it comes to people messing with other peoples work so I'm inclined to believe that due to Poison being a woman originally and the trans situation being the result of silly localization issues that she is a woman, was then and is now. At least that is my view on it.
I think allot of this situation and people putting so much emphasis on it comes from a certain level of projection. I don't mean that in a derogatory way, I view it more like the Bert and Earnie thing from Sesamee St.
I mean here you have two puppets from a children's TV show from god knows how many years ago now who happen to share the same bed, it's completely innocent. And yet there are people who latch onto the idea that they are gay and as such the idea gained so much momentum that they are now considered symbols of the Gay and Lesbian community.
I think it is a similar situation with Poison, at least partially anyway.
I think it's great that such icons exist, but I'm not mad on the idea of distorting someone else's creation/image/message/character/work etc... into something it was not intended to be even if that newer image helps lots of people feel more represented in society.
I guess it's just an issue of original intent for me. But it's the same reason I watch films in their original language with subs etc... I hope I've explained my points correctly because I'd hate for anyone to misunderstand and take offense by anything I've said.
Of course in general it doesn't bother me what the official stance on the character is, either trans or a woman, either one wouldn't stop me from picking that character in the game. However I think in the grand scheme of things there are bigger issues for the trans community to focus on than this and trying to make it into some sort of equal representation issue just seems intellectually dishonest to me at least.
voodoopanda
Member
Awesome interview. I've found fighting games, due to their large cast, are one of the best places for diversity in games, which I think is great. Every character gets pretty much the same amount of development, and you see so many different kinds of people represented. In a video game universe full of white, male, heterosexual main characters, it's refreshing.
dragonlife
Member
Obviously it is or people wouldn't even be talking about it.Ryujin said:
Red Liquorice
Member
Great interview, thanks for putting this too them! I'm so glad (glaad?!) Poison is finally a playable character in an SF game. I just hope we see her in the mainline series and that her inclusion here isn't just a "now will you shut up about her" kind of gesture.
The same goes for Mika - I think they are more open to adding these type of 'comedy' or 'oddball' characters to the roster of a VS game than a main series SF game - maybe because they are scared of receiving the "too many weirdos" reception that SF3 got.
The same goes for Mika - I think they are more open to adding these type of 'comedy' or 'oddball' characters to the roster of a VS game than a main series SF game - maybe because they are scared of receiving the "too many weirdos" reception that SF3 got.
No. The design of the character is, IMO, unique and fun, sexy, cool. Regardless of gender. That she is a transsexual is the icing on the cake.Hellion said:
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
shidoshi said:
No black character in any video game has come close to representing me, in the sense of connecting with them. Nor would I want them to. I play video games to suspend my disbelief and entertained, not find allegories of my real life. I've got better things to do with my time than worry about such things and even if I didn't, I still would be looking for these things in the genre least equipped to provide them of all.
Comparing no female characters in any videogame period with a female/shemale controversy in a fighting game is kinda comparing apples and oranges. Even if poison is transgender it doesn't change how the game is experienced in any significant way. There will be minimal plot and even if sf x t went to mk9 levels, poisons gender would have no impact on story progression or overall narrative. For example, zangief being gay means nothing in the wider scheme of things.
I'm sorry but it really is just a storm in a teacup to me...arguably less than that. I very much doubt the transgender community are up in arms just because capcom can't make up their mind what poison is. It's just a waste of time and energy, especially considering their are much more sensible places to argue for the inclusion of LGBT characters, even within gaming, but entertainment in general.
Beelzeboss
Member
So Poison can be anything you want her to be?
I guess that makes sense since she's not real and such.
I guess that makes sense since she's not real and such.
AquaticSquirrel
Member
ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
My thoughts exactly
CountAntonius
Member
I would prefer SF x KoF over Capcom vs SNK, personally.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
How about you try speaking to people in the transgender community? Because they kind of are.
Maybe you don't care if your race/gender/sexuality/etc. is represented in video gaming, but a lot of people do. It's a big deal to a wide variety of people, and not something that should just be brushed aside because others don't understand the reasoning.
Projectjustice said:
And as I keep bringing up, Birdie was white when you played Street Fighter. So is he still white?
Gravijah said:
Oh, I'm long past the point of needing to!
LeonSKennedy90
Banned
I will never understand this fascination, borderline obsession, with seeking representation of your race, sex, religion, or otherwise in forms of fictional entertainment. I've never in my life read a comic or watched a movie or played a video game and thought, "This is cool and all, but where are the brothas that GET ME!?" Why the constant need to find someone like yourself in entertainment?
voodoopanda
Member
Fighting games spend time creating characters with backstories, etc. It's just nice having some diversity there. It isn't necessarily always about you, but other people. "I don't need or care about any kind of representation in game" is fine, but other people out there do. If you don't care about character's backgrounds, you can continue not caring. A lot of hardcore fighting game fans sometimes sound like they'd be fine if every character was a stick figure with no identity other than unique moveset.
Just like Chun-Li is awesome for being the strongest woman in the world, it's cool to have something for the many different kinds of people out there to relate to. Even if its just a little bit.
Just like Chun-Li is awesome for being the strongest woman in the world, it's cool to have something for the many different kinds of people out there to relate to. Even if its just a little bit.
LeonSKennedy90
Banned
shidoshi said:
That'd be kinda odd, and wouldn't really work in the context of certain video games, but I don't think I'd lose sleep over my lack of big black power fantasy characters to represent me.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
shidoshi said:
I honestly do not believe that. At all. However, next time I do come across a member of the trans community, I will specifically talk to them about this situation and ask how they feel about it. I bet the hat on my head they wouldn't give a shyt, unless they are one of these people who have never played street fighter and are just reacting on principle.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
"You may not know much about Japanese intersexual fetishes, but I'm an expert..."ZoddGutts said:
Projectjustice
Banned
shidoshi said:
Poison being replaced in the SNES version of FF with a dude is what happened. Does MK have no blood? I remember the SNES version being super cleaned up. Different era, different culture. Go to Japan and ask any fan if she's a tranny. They will tell you shes a female.
You want a real gay SF character? Eagle is already there for you.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
Projectjustice said:
And zangief.
voodoopanda
Member
I can understand not really caring about this, but I have trouble understanding not caring to the point where you're against it. If you don't care about representation, then there's nothing wrong with the developers making all sorts of characters with all sorts of backgrounds, right? Unless you do care and are against it for other reasons.
LeonSKennedy90
Banned
voodoopanda said:
Is anybody in this thread against it?
Projectjustice
Banned
Only reason Capcom doesnt end this dumbass discussion is cause it brings in attention and sales. They dont want to offend anyone cause they will end up not buying the product. Ono even said it, they put themselves in this situation 20+ years ago by mistake.
Great interview though, good read.
Great interview though, good read.
AquaticSquirrel
Member
voodoopanda said:
Careful now, that's a slippery slope you're on there.
To clarify, caring to any degree if Poison is trans or not and making a decision based on the details we have of whether or not you think Poison is trans or not are two COMPLETELY different things.
Hence a person can have an opinion on whether they think she is trans or not and not really care what the offical decision by Capcom is. What I mean by that is just because a person says they think she is a woman does not mean they are against her being trans or against trans people in general.
To be honest I think even suggesting such a thing is a shitty thing to do and only serves to complicate the situation and create a scenario where anyone who disagrees with your point of view is labeled some sort of bigot and in any form of reasoned and logical debate that is something that should be discouraged at all costs.
diffusionx
Gold Member
I'm not surprised Capcom is making sure they get this one right. I mean, Ono's gay right?
ThoughtsOfSpeaking said:
Here's one reply I've gotten today on twitter from somebody who is trans (and a player of Capcom fighting games):
If you'd like more opinions, there's a thread on NeoGAF for members who are transgender. Why not go in there and ask? I bet you'd get enough responses to make you feel otherwise.
Projectjustice said:
What does a gay character have to do with a discussion about transgender characters?
