BronsonLee
Member
If they used the de-aging tech on Marisa Tomei, she'd look the exact same
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Captain America: Civil War SPOILER Thread - #TeamThanos
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Subpar Spatula
Banned
Those points are just one way this could have went down but all roads after the Sokovia Accord signings eventually lead to the team breaking up with them on different sides. This makes Zemo meaningless to the story of Civil War. If there was no Sokovia Accords, Zemo's plan would have not worked.
formasymphonic
Member
waifu2x
My Spider Sense tingling, if you know what I mean..,
Reizo Ryuu
Member
Otakumegane
Member
Why wasn't Vision and War Machine helping out in Lagos?
Also it's implied that Peter tries to block his Spidey sense. That's why he uses the goggles, to block some sensory input. He can't handle it all quite yet.
Also it's implied that Peter tries to block his Spidey sense. That's why he uses the goggles, to block some sensory input. He can't handle it all quite yet.
Nah, that was even before Whedon with the first Iron Man movie. In every movie almost every character was being sort of funny or joking which ruined the tone as it became artificial and not organic like GotG, Ant-Man, Cap 2-3.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
If Vision was there then there wouldn't be an incident that leads to hastening the Sokovia Accords. Convenient removal of the character is all.
andythinkpad
Member
formasymphonic
Member
Zemo's objective isn't just to separate them. Its to get them to destroy themselves/each other. His actions played the different sides behaviours and induced the escalation of the events.
Because it was a covert op. one guy in a metal suit with jets coming out of his hands and feet and another guy who is purple aren't covert.
Funnily enough, this is actually why i was never super as in to MCU as everyone else. I was ok with it in th eIM films because it was Tony's character, but in everything else it just felt forced. I was fine with it in Ant-man though. to me that is a Paul Rudd comedy in the guise of a Marvel Comic film.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Which was already occurring. This movie would work just as well without Zemo.
Imagine Joe Pesci as Uncle Ben.It would just bring back the hairstyle.
OKAY, OKAY, OKAY. LISTEN, PETAH, WITH GREAT FUCKEN' POWAH COMES GREAT FUCKEN' RESPONSIBILITY, OKAY?
That reminds me of another thing...
Before seeing Batman v. Superman, I had preemptively given that movie points just for being a movie with a new incarnation of Batman in it that finally, finally didn't include the onscreen murder of Bruce Wayne's parents... points that it lost in the opening seconds of runtime (of course, it then went to the trouble of depicting it yet again before the movie ended). Then this movie blows past Spider-man's origin story without even alluding to it. And Peter's own retelling of his "with great power comes great responsibility" lesson/cliché in terms that appeal directly to Stark was pitch-perfect.
Otakumegane
Member
And Captain America and a guy in a wingsuit aren't?
I get the point about being stealthy, but they could have just hidden.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
Sure it could have. There is no reason that the Avengers wouldnt have gone down the same path if Zemo still bombed the UN and framed Bucky for it. He could still leave the trail of breadcrumbs leading the team back to Bucky's origins. There just wouldnt be the initial fracture of the team because of the accords. The team would still be in pieces if Iron Man ever found out that Bucky is the one who killed his parents.
COME ON NOW! Just look at her. You can't just downplay this.
Marisa Tomei SAG Awards Arrivals 2016I
Marisa Tomei The View 1 15 2015
formasymphonic
Member
a couple of pages back someone posted a link to a podcast with the writers of the film, and they pretty much say that they spent a long time debating if the film could stand with just the Accords alone as the entire conflict of the film and just rely on Cap & Tony to be antagonists for each other and they decided against it because t wouldn't have given them all of the things that they needed.
B-Movies Podcast
PHOENIXZERO
Member
Wait, was there actually a post-credits scene besides Bucky being put back under?
If so I didn't stick around to see it, d'oh!
If so I didn't stick around to see it, d'oh!
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Yeah. Peter checking out a new gizmo from Tony that projects the Spider Signal on his ceiling. I was expecting a design for the Iron Spiderman Suit myself, and was a little let down that it was just the signal.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
The Accords are definitely not enough to keep the team fractured. There are times in the movie where both Iron Man and Cap both almost switch sides or admit they were wrong. It's pretty obvious that without the fact that Bucky killed Iron Mans parents that the two sides could have eventually worked out a compromise.
Marvel always does a mid-credit after the animated credits sequence, then an after credit after the entire credit scrawl.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
That's some silliness, then. What do you think the natural progression of the Sokovia Accords is? You could replace Zemo with any bomber and it would still occur. Zemo's plan wasn't his plan, he didn't achieve anything. He's that guy who takes credit for something he had very little to do with.
jedihunter505
Member
So, my biggest issue with this movie is the misleading title of the film. It is definitely not a Captain America film which breaks my heart. He is my favorite comic book character ever and he isn't really even the one who drives the narrative of this movie forward.
This movie has Cap elements in it for sure, but when it comes to his opinions on the Sokovia Accords, he doesn't really state his case all that efficiently against Tony. The writers do a good job balancing all the other characters and their motivations, but Cap just kind of goes along for the ride and when Bucky gets involved he pivots from the discussion and goes after Bucky. The way the movie is presented, you never feel he cares much about the Accords one way or the other.
Cap in The Winter Soldier is a much stronger character and states his beliefs quite firmly against Nick Fury: "Holding a gun to everyone's head and calling it protection? This isn't freedom, this is fear." The Cap in this movie doesn't really say a whole lot against the Accords when they are having a discussion. We all know he is a strong character with a strong moral compass, but this movie somewhat fails to show this apart from his one line saying: "This document shifts the blame. It is run by people and people have agendas. Agendas can change."
Even the villain of the movie isn't a true Cap villain. Barron Zemo is a cap villain in the comics, but in this movie he is used more like an Avengers villain. He doesn't have a personal beef with Cap only, he has a personal vendetta against the whole Avengers team for the death of his family in Sokovia, which, is basically all Stark's fault anyway. So it's not like the villain in cap's movie, is even exclusively a Captain America villain.
The movie has two distinct storylines going through it that don't quite mess together. The Cap and Bucky story and the Civil War story. The problem is, each story is never really given full attention and so the both end up suffering. It's not monumental or anything as what we got is still a fun movie, but it feels like a Jack of all Trades, Master of None situation.
This movie has Cap elements in it for sure, but when it comes to his opinions on the Sokovia Accords, he doesn't really state his case all that efficiently against Tony. The writers do a good job balancing all the other characters and their motivations, but Cap just kind of goes along for the ride and when Bucky gets involved he pivots from the discussion and goes after Bucky. The way the movie is presented, you never feel he cares much about the Accords one way or the other.
Cap in The Winter Soldier is a much stronger character and states his beliefs quite firmly against Nick Fury: "Holding a gun to everyone's head and calling it protection? This isn't freedom, this is fear." The Cap in this movie doesn't really say a whole lot against the Accords when they are having a discussion. We all know he is a strong character with a strong moral compass, but this movie somewhat fails to show this apart from his one line saying: "This document shifts the blame. It is run by people and people have agendas. Agendas can change."
Even the villain of the movie isn't a true Cap villain. Barron Zemo is a cap villain in the comics, but in this movie he is used more like an Avengers villain. He doesn't have a personal beef with Cap only, he has a personal vendetta against the whole Avengers team for the death of his family in Sokovia, which, is basically all Stark's fault anyway. So it's not like the villain in cap's movie, is even exclusively a Captain America villain.
The movie has two distinct storylines going through it that don't quite mess together. The Cap and Bucky story and the Civil War story. The problem is, each story is never really given full attention and so the both end up suffering. It's not monumental or anything as what we got is still a fun movie, but it feels like a Jack of all Trades, Master of None situation.
Reizo Ryuu
Member
I'm not downplaying anything, if you take care of yourself you'll look like that at that age
jedihunter505
Member
That's because Cap IS stronger than BP.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Are you here just to be contrarian? This is what I noticed with almost every single post of yours in here.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
How was it not his plan? He's the one who thought to find an ex Hydra member who helped run the Winter Soldier program. He's the one who thought to frame Bucky. He's the one who studies Russian to trigger WS. He's the one who thinks to knock out the power to get alone time with WS. He's the one who thinks to lead both Tony and Steve to the same place and reveal the secret that only he and a handful of other people know.
As for Zemo being anyone, yeah, that's totally true. Zemo even says that stronger men then him have tried to do what he did and that all it takes to do what he did was patience and experience. That's what's great about him, he didnt beat the team with huge invasions or grand destruction. He beat them with his mind. He beat them with manipulation. It doesnt matter if anyone could do what he did. He was the one smart enough to put the pieces together and actually accomplish it.
formasymphonic
Member
But they didn't put any bomber, they put Zemo. They put him in with the motivations they did and the objective they did. If Zemo doesn't work for you on a personal level thats fine. I didn't write the movie and I have no interest in defending it to that level. But what they wrote and films is what they wrote and filmed.
EDIT: podcast link one more time for anyone who wants it - its long but a good listen
BronsonLee
Member
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
So i decided to google Marisa Tomei and google imagies suggested to me somthing called the "wrestler gif"....
Here's the spot I was referencing by the way. It's at the end of the commercial. It seems to show that at the very least, Cap and BP are comparable in strength.
https://youtu.be/mz-WObmGFBU
BP = Black People . It all makes sense now.
Yeah, they probably didn't want to upstage the main character in his own movie.
That kind of killed the last fight to me. I ignored all the leaps of logic in the airport fight but I was at my limit at the end of the movie. Tony was holding back less on Steve, and going all out on Bucky. Bucky shouldn't be pushing him into a wall at all.
This isn't a movie I could watch again because it would just fall apart for me. I'm afraid that its going to be like the first avengers movie where I love it on the first viewing and liked it less on every re-watch.
Yeezus H. Christ
Banned
Zemo is one of the best MCU villains easily.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Well im not against them using the parent death thing in BvS, specially since it plays a part in the story, the thing people didnt want was just another orgin story, how he became batman even though we all know how he became batman, that was the problem.
We get a movie thats based on batman thats actually more closer to the end of his career if anything, like he is gonna spend some years in the justice league probably behind a computer more and more and then hang up the cowl.
crimsonheadGCN
Banned
There was also the scene where Peter Parker was first introduced. Tony threw the webbing canister at Peter and Peter caught it without even looking in the same direction as Tony.
User 73706
Banned
Falcon is more suited for reconnaissance, surveillance, etc. so it makes sense that he'd go on this mission. War Machine doesn't exactly have a lot of gadgets that can be used in marketplace-type settings that are so dense with civilians - even if he relied on conventional arms fire, I doubt a gatling gun is going to be the optimal weapon of choice to dispatch a couple mooks in a totally crowded area.
As for Vision, he was too busy shopping for clothes and paprika.
Hey, neat, I just realized that the clandestine group led by Cap for the time being will basically be the MCU's incarnation of the Secret Avengers. Apologies if this was super obvious to all and discussed already.
Falcon, Hawkeye, Scarlet Witch, Ant-Man, Black Panther and I would guess Sharon Carter are operating outside the law under Captain America's leadership. If and when Nick Fury resurfaces in the MCU I would sense that he'd work with them as well.
Meanwhile Iron Man, War Machine, Vision, Spider-man and maybe Black Widow (I'm actually not fully sure where her position lies at the end of this film) are "the Avengers." Thor and Hulk are wildcards with pretty compelling reasons to wind up in either group.
Falcon, Hawkeye, Scarlet Witch, Ant-Man, Black Panther and I would guess Sharon Carter are operating outside the law under Captain America's leadership. If and when Nick Fury resurfaces in the MCU I would sense that he'd work with them as well.
Meanwhile Iron Man, War Machine, Vision, Spider-man and maybe Black Widow (I'm actually not fully sure where her position lies at the end of this film) are "the Avengers." Thor and Hulk are wildcards with pretty compelling reasons to wind up in either group.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Gosh I hope he's Nomad!
formasymphonic
Member
Cap stayed in a building calling the shots while Falcon mostly used his drone and stayed out of sight. The real reason though is just that they aren't written in for that set piece. A better question would be why Cap and his team seriously believed that Crossbones would be aiming for a police station, instead of that Centre for Infectious Disease building that was down the road...
It's been portrayed sooooo many times, and the part it plays in the story was... tenuous. I have to also bring up that it wasn't just his parents being killed, but also his fall into the well on Wayne Manor grounds and seeing the cave full of bats that is depicted in those opening moments. I mean, The Dark Knight Returns (which BvS is drawing the most from) completely ignores all of this and just shows the older Batman as he is. I am certainly glad the movie did not depict Bruce Wayne training in the ways of the ninja and designing his first bat-shaped throwing stars, though.
edit: Ehhh maybe there is a flashback/vision of the Waynes being killed in TDKR actually. I feel like I've seen it in some really good animated Batman movie and I can't think of what else it would have been. I guess it's unavoidable, lol.
I saw it this morning. My favorite scenes in the order I can recall them:
- T'Challa seeming to transform on that bench while delivering his lines (almost a soliloquy, as he stopped seeming to address anyone in particular by the end). "I am not my father".
- The big chase scene from the apartment through the tunnel.
- The introduction of Peter Parker. I couldn't believe what I was watching. The comics coming to life in a way they just haven't before.
- Everything with Ant-Man. Even the little quip from Tony, "who are you?".
- Cap and Spider-Man's little moment.
- Stark going off on Buckey.
The conclusion was a bit of a drag, but I guess it will be a good jumping off point for the next film those characters are needed in. It will force them to take the viewers back and remind them how it ended without clumsy exposition.
- T'Challa seeming to transform on that bench while delivering his lines (almost a soliloquy, as he stopped seeming to address anyone in particular by the end). "I am not my father".
- The big chase scene from the apartment through the tunnel.
- The introduction of Peter Parker. I couldn't believe what I was watching. The comics coming to life in a way they just haven't before.
- Everything with Ant-Man. Even the little quip from Tony, "who are you?".
- Cap and Spider-Man's little moment.
- Stark going off on Buckey.
The conclusion was a bit of a drag, but I guess it will be a good jumping off point for the next film those characters are needed in. It will force them to take the viewers back and remind them how it ended without clumsy exposition.
AnotherDayAnotherDollar
Banned
Superior military training and weapons knowledge. They could be on the same level though, but Punisher handled DD in their first and second fight on the TV Show.
This reminds me, what's the timeline on this?
Spidey says he's had these senses for 6 months or so. When does DD season 1 and 2 and JJ take place in comparison to CA:CW?
boclfon479
Member
Well in the fight between him and Bucky, when Bucky threw the sign at him, you can see his eyes change size right before he dodges the sign.
But yea he mentioned when he talked to tony that he has only had powers for 6 months
Jeff Stephen
Member
DD is right after the first Avengers movie. JJ is shortly after DD S1.
Yeezus H. Christ
Banned
Black Widow and Hawkeye would most definitely not lose to Punisher. They are in another league from his area of combat efficiency.
mrhyderager
Member
It did happen. It's just that the way they cut the trailer made it look like Cap was having more trouble with BP than he ended up having in the movie. It happened in the Airport scene when Cap and BP had their 1v1
Edit: And actually, now that I'm thinking about it, I actually recall being very impressed because BP's Vibranium claws left scratch marks on the shield that persisted throughout the rest of the movie. A+ to the props team.
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