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Captain America: Civil War SPOILER Thread - #TeamThanos

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I just watched the movie and I think it was great. I didn't however, like the ending all that much as I felt like Cap basically didn't give a crap about the Starks. He didn't try to relate to how Tony was feeling and end the end just threw the shield at Tony which said "I don't give a shit about that." It's crazy considering that Tony's dad really had a soft spot for Cap and in the end, all that mattered was Bucky. I get that it was his friend, but Tony was his friend, too. Also, Bucky didn't try to diffuse the situation, either. At no point does he really try to empathize with Tony and own up to what he did. I just felt like they wanted all three of them to fight and that was the best way for it to happen.

That said, in some way it fits with the Captain because he just doesn't try to solve things without getting into a fight. Which I thought was interesting when Black Widow basically asks him if they're going to end up fighting. It's the Cap, that's what he does.

I think they let the Captain get away with a lot of stuff because it was his movie. Still, I enjoyed it and felt like the Black Panther and Spidey were awesome. Can't wait to see their stand alone movies.
 
Subpar Spatula said:
Character development shows Tony Stark would indeed look into those HYDRA files like any sane person who could. This is never mentioned or brought up. A single line would remove this. We've both said our pieces.
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IM3 says he wouldn't. AoU shows he wouldn't.

Didn't read my comments. Since when is SHIELD data files leaked HYDRA files?
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They are one and the same. Nearly all of it heavile encrypted. Even Fury didn't know about that stuff and he had top clearance.
 
EDarkness said:
I just watched the movie and I think it was great. I didn't however, like the ending all that much as I felt like Cap basically didn't give a crap about the Starks. He didn't try to relate to how Tony was feeling and end the end just threw the shield at Tony which said "I don't give a shit about that." It's crazy considering that Tony's dad really had a soft spot for Cap and in the end, all that mattered was Bucky. I get that it was his friend, but Tony was his friend, too. Also, Bucky didn't try to diffuse the situation, either. At no point does he really try to empathize with Tony and own up to what he did. I just felt like they wanted all three of them to fight and that was the best way for it to happen.

That said, in some way it fits with the Captain because he just doesn't try to solve things without getting into a fight. Which I thought was interesting when Black Widow basically asks him if they're going to end up fighting. It's the Cap, that's what he does.

I think they let the Captain get away with a lot of stuff because it was his movie. Still, I enjoyed it and felt like the Black Panther and Spidey were awesome. Can't wait to see their stand alone movies.
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I agree with all of this, except I liked the ending as it exposed Cap for the basic thug he is. He doesnt care about people other than those in his inner circle, and he doesnt care about helping others, he only cares about doing the right thing (his own version of the right thing, and only when it lines up to fit him or his friends needs). Stark cares about the reasons for things and the people outside of the inner circle.
 
Subpar Spatula said:
Didn't read my comments. Since when is SHIELD data files leaked HYDRA files?
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Since always.

Spell out your nitpick now because like ALWAYS, you change your arguments based on how you're being refuted.

Is it that Tony didn't know about the Winter Soldier being involved in his parent's death?
He wouldn't have gotten proof of that anyways from the data leak and had no reason to pull that specific thread among the massive amount of data to begin with.

Is it that Tony didn't data-mine the leak at all?
We don't know whether or not he did and there was never a reason for him to stare at the camera and bring that up over the course of Civil War.

So what the hell are you complaining about?
 
Yea count me as one would doesn't think Tony would start data mining Hydra files for information regarding his parents' death out of the blue. He might do so looking for something specific, like an ultimate weapon they were building, etc, but not about a travesty from his past he had already accepted. Why would he connect those dots?
 
EatinOlives said:
The movie? No, it was much much much better than AoU.

But there was a real problem with the airport fight and just the one fight. Quips were coming a mile a minute and it made no sense given what was happening on screen. Huge tonal discord.
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Didn't Falcon point this out to Spiderman?

Scott had never really been in a super fight and is an obnoxious smart-ass, Peter never shuts up (that's who he is behind the mask), Clint and Natasha are besties who were literally play fighting (also pointed out).

The only people who had stakes were the Iron Men, Panther, Cap and Bucky.
 
I feel like no one was actively trying to kill in the airport fight minus Black Panther. It just seemed like incapacitate and nothing more, hence why they were willing to joke. Tony wanted them taken down, even arrested but not dead.

It's later when it's down to Steve, Bucky and Tony that it turns more personal and serious.
 
Apt101 said:
Yea count me as one would doesn't think Tony would start data mining Hydra files for information regarding his parents' death out of the blue. He might do so looking for something specific, like an ultimate weapon they were building, etc, but not about a travesty from his past he had already accepted. Why would he connect those dots?
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Of course he wouldn't scan just for his parent's death but he would scan through just because their HYDRA's files which the series never talks about.

Zemo could have told Tony that Bucky killed his parents as orders from HYDRA and a simple line of, "I combed those files and there was nothing about them" and then the tape is shown.

It's so weird there's a defense force about Tony not going through HYDRA files.
 
EDarkness said:
I just watched the movie and I think it was great. I didn't however, like the ending all that much as I felt like Cap basically didn't give a crap about the Starks. He didn't try to relate to how Tony was feeling and end the end just threw the shield at Tony which said "I don't give a shit about that." It's crazy considering that Tony's dad really had a soft spot for Cap and in the end, all that mattered was Bucky. I get that it was his friend, but Tony was his friend, too. Also, Bucky didn't try to diffuse the situation, either. At no point does he really try to empathize with Tony and own up to what he did. I just felt like they wanted all three of them to fight and that was the best way for it to happen.

That said, in some way it fits with the Captain because he just doesn't try to solve things without getting into a fight. Which I thought was interesting when Black Widow basically asks him if they're going to end up fighting. It's the Cap, that's what he does.

I think they let the Captain get away with a lot of stuff because it was his movie. Still, I enjoyed it and felt like the Black Panther and Spidey were awesome. Can't wait to see their stand alone movies.
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Pagusas said:
I agree with all of this, except I liked the ending as it exposed Cap for the basic thug he is. He doesnt care about people other than those in his inner circle, and he doesnt care about helping others, he only cares about doing the right thing (his own version of the right thing, and only when it lines up to fit him or his friends needs). Stark cares about the reasons for things and the people outside of the inner circle.
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He sends an apology letter to Tony admitting he did him wrong by lying to him. I'm pretty sure he cared.
 
BewareTheBatsie said:
I feel like no one was actively trying to kill in the airport fight minus Black Panther. It just seemed like incapacitate and nothing more, hence why they were willing to joke. Tony wanted them taken down, even arrested but not dead.

It's later when it's down to Steve, Bucky and Tony that it turns more personal and serious.
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That was definitely the tone they were aiming for. Spider-Man "they're still running?!?". The light battle between Spidey and Bucky and Falcon. 'Widow asking Hawkguy if they were still friends. Ant-Man in general. Vision and Scarlet Witch. The only person out for blood was probably T'Challa.
 
The quips make sense if you consider who they are coming from. Even Falcon who is played a little bit looser and sarcastic by Mackie was a bit annoyed at Spider-Man because that is trademark Spidey. Just annoy the shit out of the people he is fighting.

The airport sequence is lighter in tone and some might find it a disconnect, sure, but I took it as a bit of release. Without it, the movie would've felt too heavy for a universe that is not used to doing that and doesn't really like doing it. It makes sense considering what they were going for with the more personal ending.
 
I appreciated that the movie managed to make Tony's side seem reasonable without turning him into a complete fascist monster like Millar did.

Keeping Wanda prisoner with Vision mirrored parking the Sentinels at Xavier's school, and The Raft was an obvious stand in for the negative zone.

Subtle changes that make him much less of a villain in comparison.
 
Fandangox said:
He sends an apology letter to Tony admitting he did him wrong by lying to him. I'm pretty sure he cared.
Click to expand...

I just felt like that apology at the end didn't have much meaning, or show that he really cared about Stark or really the situation at all. They watched his parents get murdered in cold blood. What do you say to that? It was like..."Well, that doesn't matter and I don't really care about how you feel about it." Him or Bucky really tried to apologize for it or even own up to it. Cap was more interested in protecting his friend, instead of making his friend own up to all the bad stuff he did. I get that he's his best friend, but his best friend did a lot of crappy stuff and the people affected by that deserve some peace and justice.
 
I'm sure it's already been said, but this felt like the quality sequel to the first Avengers movie that AoU wasn't. Didn't have as much to say as WS did, but I guess that's ok.
 
EDarkness said:
I just felt like that apology at the end didn't have much meaning, or show that he really cared about Stark or really the situation at all. They watched his parents get murdered in cold blood. What do you say to that? It was like..."Well, that doesn't matter and I don't really care about how you feel about it." Him or Bucky really tried to apologize for it or even own up to it. Cap was more interested in protecting his friend, instead of making his friend own up to all the bad stuff he did. I get that he's his best friend, but his best friend did a lot of crappy stuff and the people affected by that deserve some peace and justice.
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Bucky had nothing to own up for.

Cap is the only one who had anything to answer for, namely lying to Tony.
 
EDarkness said:
I just felt like that apology at the end didn't have much meaning, or show that he really cared about Stark or really the situation at all. They watched his parents get murdered in cold blood. What do you say to that? It was like..."Well, that doesn't matter and I don't really care about how you feel about it." Him or Bucky really tried to apologize for it or even own up to it. Cap was more interested in protecting his friend, instead of making his friend own up to all the bad stuff he did. I get that he's his best friend, but his best friend did a lot of crappy stuff and the people affected by that deserve some peace and justice.
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The only ones to blame for the Winter Soldier's actions are Hydra and Cap already took them down.
 
hamchan said:
The only ones to blame for the Winter Soldier's actions are Hydra and Cap already took them down.
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Of course, but he could have apologized, and owned up to whatever happened. I mean, Bucky could have tried to empathize with him. He seemed like he was a good guy, instead he didn't do anything. Not saying anything I think just made that whole situation go south and Cap not telling Tony didn't help, either.

ryutaro's mama said:
A point lots of people miss.
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I didn't miss this point, but the fact of the matter is it was still him and regardless of how it all went down, Tony's parents were murdered in cold blood. Even a "I'm sorry, man" would have been better than nothing.
 
EDarkness said:
Of course, but he could have apologized, and owned up to whatever happened. I mean, Bucky could have tried to empathize with him. He seemed like he was a good guy, instead he didn't do anything. Not saying anything I think just made that whole situation go south and Cap not telling Tony didn't help, either.
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People have their own ways for atonement. I figured that Bucky volunteering to be cryo frozen until they can figure out a solution to his programming is his way of atoning and making sure he can't be weaponized anymore.

EDarkness said:
I didn't miss this point, but the fact of the matter is it was still him and regardless of how it all went down, Tony's parents were murdered in cold blood. Even a "I'm sorry, man" would have been better than nothing.
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When do you say sorry though? As he is watching the video and about to wreck you or after the emotional fight where he shot your arm off and is laying there, emotionally and physically spent?
 
What a time to be alive. I love these Marvel movies. Comics, especially Marvel, were my jam growing up. Sometimes, I actually find myself tearing up in the movie theatre while watching these movies because it's like my childhood has come to back to life. I'm a 35 year old man, by the way. I cannot wait to bring my kids to watch these movies with me. Never in a million years would I have thought that I would watch a really good Captain America movie and I've seen three of them. I don't care what anyone says, you can tell Marvel actually gives a shit about their characters when they put them on the big screen and small screen. I absolutely love Jessica Jones and Daredevil. I can't wait to see what they have in store for us with Doctor Strange, Black Panther, Spider-Man: Homecoming and all the other movies. I pray that one day Fox and Marvel make some kind of deal to bring the X-Men franchise to the universe.
 
Sho_Nuff82 said:
Didn't Falcon point this out to Spiderman?

Scott had never really been in a super fight and is an obnoxious smart-ass, Peter never shuts up (that's who he is behind the mask), Clint and Natasha are besties who were literally play fighting (also pointed out).

The only people who had stakes were the Iron Men, Panther, Cap and Bucky.
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It wasn't just what the individual characters were doing, as obviously it makes sense for Spider Man to be quipping and feeling out since 1. he's a kid, 2. it's the first time ever fighting and 3. It's Spider Man.

Hawkeye and Widow literally play fighting is actually what I'm pointing out as the problem. Hard to call it "Civil War" if half the characters on screen aren't even taking it seriously.

I feel the REAL fight was the Tony vs. Cap and Bucky one at the end of the film. That felt far more raw and personal, whereas the airport fight was very theatrical and more flash than substance, feeling more like footage created solely for the trailers than servicing the actual movie. It doesn't help that MCU films just don't do large-scale battles well. They feel less like fights and more like "montages", very superficial and "hey look at THIS guy, now look at THIS! How about THIS!!" collections of disjointed "cool" moves instead of getting a feel of an actual progression of the fight. The generally happy tone complete with heroic music doesn't help either given the context of heroes allegedly at war with each other. It's like they went full Avengers Final Battle mode in the airport when it didnt make any real sense for it to approach the battle that way.

Thankfully the airport scene was the only one of its kind in this film. All of the other ones were fantastic precisely because they were much smaller scale and they actually knew what to do with each character beyond "uhh just fight among yourselves, we'll pan the camera in your direction eventually".
 
EDarkness said:
I didn't miss this point, but the fact of the matter is it was still him and regardless of how it all went down, Tony's parents were murdered in cold blood. Even a "I'm sorry, man" would have been better than nothing.
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Worked out well for Falcon and all he did was move out of the way of a deadly laser beam from an Infinity Stone...
 
Just got back from it and it was amazing. I forgot about the Giant Man lego leak so I freaked out when Scott went big. The comic book moment during the Cap/Iron Man fight was amazing.

I found myself waffling between Cap's choice to protect Bucky no matter what until at the end when Tony threw out the Mom line.

I've realized that if I lived in this universe, the smartest thing to do would be to stay the hell away from cities and populated areas and live in Nebraska or North Dakota. It won't matter how well-meaning the Avengers are, when they show up, homes are destroyed, property is obliterated, and innocents die. That's a guarantee. Doesn't matter how careful they are, I never want to be anywhere near them.
 
DGy7KdV.jpg
 
Looking back at the film, what the hell was The Vision doing the whole fight before Ant-Man turned huge? Don't remember seeing him at all.
 
T'Challa was my favorite out of this whole movie I think.

I just love the way he speaks and fights. There's such a ferocity in his combat that seems balanced by his calm demeanor.

When he says "Captain" in the Black Panther suit shit legit gave me chills.

Can't wait for the BP movie.
 
Bucca said:
T'Challa was my favorite out of this whole movie I think.

I just love the way he speaks and fights. There's such a ferocity in his combat that seems balanced by his calm demeanor.

When he says "Captain" in the Black Panther suit shit legit gave me chills.

Can't wait for the BP movie.
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Dude looks so legit in the suit sans mask. when he finally dons the cloak, lawdhabmarcy.
 
Yeah, the people complaining about Zemo's characterization are being super-myopic.

Dude was kept alive, intentionally, in one of the most sprawling, most contingent affirmative fictional universes of our time.

Just.. have some patience.
 
boiled goose said:
Oh should he have worn a mask in that mission? Sure... Not that big a deal IMO.

That said, why would anyone in the modern day know who the fuck "Bucky" was? Even if they had seen the museum or talked to Cap about it, I don't think anyone would recognize a random dead soldier from 70 years ago.
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Are you taking about Howard Stark? He was close with Cap back in the day and likely knew Bucky by association.
 
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