BronsonLee
Member
What Peter should've done is webbed Tony in the mouth when he said he was going to tell Aunt May, then just watch him die
#Snyderverse
#Snyderverse
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Captain America: Civil War SPOILER Thread - #TeamThanos
- Thread starter Son Of D
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But, he didn't. He made Peter not lie to him during their conversation, but at no point did he make Peter sign on with the threat of telling May.
Scrooge McDuck
Member
The webbing-hand-to-the-door thing occurs at the end, so naturally Germany has actually been brought up beforehand.
Peter: I can't go to Germany. I can't just--
Tony: Might be a little dangerous, but I'll tell Aunt Hottie I'm taking you--
*Peter webs Tony's hand*
Peter: Don't tell Aunt May!
You get that's not blackmail right? He's saying he'll let May know where he's taking Peter under the assumption that she already knows.
Nope. Saw it twice, Parker said he had homework to do (good laugh at the cinema) so he can't go to germany. Tony then walks to the door and threatens to tell hot aunt and gets his hand webbed. Paker even says something like "don't tell her anything".
I don't think Tony blackmailed Peter or forced him into anything but he absolutely manipulated him.
Consider how Peter's "with great power comes great responsibility" spiel was basically a rewording of what Steve told Tony earlier in the movie. Peter would totally be team Cap if he knew the whole story.
I got a different take from that scene.
But that's what happens when you have a character build a murder-death-bot.
Well, nobody really knew the whole story until later on in the first place.
Ultron was designed for Chitari-tier threats wasn't it?
Scrooge McDuck
Member
That exchange occurs at the very end of their conversation. Tony already knows that Aunt May doesn't know and Peter doesn't want her to know at that point.
longdi
Banned
Think of it this way, after Shield got brought down,
Without Tony, there wont be Avengers around
Without Steve, we would still have the Avengers protecting the Earth from extraterrestrial threats...
Tony was right, Steve dont deserve the shield and the Captain's mantra after what he did in CW..
I hope Fergie do not let Steve raised Thor hammer and defeat Thanos, he is not worthy.
#wubTony, the real Captain America.
Without Tony, there wont be Avengers around
Without Steve, we would still have the Avengers protecting the Earth from extraterrestrial threats...
Tony was right, Steve dont deserve the shield and the Captain's mantra after what he did in CW..
I hope Fergie do not let Steve raised Thor hammer and defeat Thanos, he is not worthy.
#wubTony, the real Captain America.
Jest Chillin
Member
They're all incredibly recognizable and at that point are wanted internationally. There really isn't many low key ways form them to get their hands on fast air travel.
So did Tony ever threaten to reveal his identity to May? Yes he did.
What planet are you on to think that Peter didnt believe that could have been a possibility if he didnt do what he said.
It was a sleezy thing to come to where he lives corner him about his identity and say alright now that I know you are coming with me to Germany.
Saying that he'll let Peter's guardian know that he's going to Germany isn't a threat of what will happen if he chooses to do the exact opposite, that makes no sense.
If you want to admit that Tony didn't threaten Peter if he said no to going to Germany, just do it straight.
Ah. Well I'm still not sure if I'd call it blackmail when Peter ultimately appeared to come willingly. Like I said, it was more manipulation than anything else.
Wheeljack539
Member
Can't believe the Tony hate.
I dont' hate Tony but he was dealt with a very bad hand before this and it just went downhill. Tony was acting on heavy emotions through the entire movie and Tony like that is not a good thing.
A psychopath? Really? Wanda saved not only Cap and the people on the ground she tried to get him away but couldnt' contain the explosion when it did go off. If she had it would have been close but the mission would have been an all around success.
An old war buddy who was innocent of the crime of blowing up the UN building. The manhunt for Bucky was shoot to kill. Why would Cap lay off on that, especially knowing that if/when Bucky fought back it would have been worse?
The difference is Clint is an adult who can make his own decisions. He even thanks Cap for it as he feels he still owes a debt to Wanda. Cap gives Scott an out but Scott joins regardless.
The only thing he gathered them for was for the 5 Super Soldiers in Siberia, not to fight Tony or the Accords. Tony just managed to intercept them before they could get away. That's why Sam asks "What do we do?". And by that point Tony wasn't listening which is why the fight broke out.
And Cap didn't even want to leave them behind but Clint and Sam got him to as the airport fight "Wasn't the real fight".
Except Tony was running on emotions by that point with that mother's son who got killed in Sokovia. He was ready to go with it before looking the entire thing through and hashing it out with provisions and any giving the UN any provisions they may have/want for them to review.
I would have agreed with you had they not sent in Ross. The moment they stepped out of line with Ross he had them incarcerated in a max security cell. You could see Tony's "Oh shit" face when he walked in there.
We also don't know how much Ross knows (in Tony going to Siberia) as Ross was ready to toss Tony in with them and was waiting for an excuse. Tony's flippancy when he left might have saved him a bit as Ross at least knew that Tony was going to do that.
And that letter was nothing close to snarky. It's not like it was written by Whedon.
He was damn close to killing Bucky by the end.
He went in beforehand to make sure things didn't go worse.
"If Bucky really is that far gone then I need to be the one there."
"Why?"
"Becaues I'm the one least likely to be killed".
That fight in the escape was Cap protecting both sides and you could see Cap glaring at Bucky for a few shots that went too far.
Jest Chillin
Member
Without Tony, The Avengers would still be around. They just wouldn't be bankrolled as highly and have all those extra gadgets.
Without Steve, The Avengers have no good leadership overall and zero Field Leadership.
They both provide different strengths to the group and without either they are hampered.
Can't believe the Tony hate.
He is a billionaire philanthropist, Mr Avenger himself. His contribution to the MCU society FAR outweighs the rest. He fucking self-lessly took a nuclear arrow to his knee. You gotta forgive him for his stress, and the fact that he is the most remorseful among his peers for their collateral damage, shows how real a hero he is.
Unlike Steve, who simply brush aside and psychopath Wanda that collateral damage is part and parcel of their job, they have lost 1 but saved a 100. But of course by the end of CW, it shows up Capt as a fucking hypocrite. In his desire to save his old war buddy, he gives the L to society, brings his loyal friends along down the hell hole. Capt asking Hawkguy out of retirement is far far worse than Tony recruiting Spidey. Im sure Tony has tons of super-hero viewfinder cams across the globe. He can see Spidey stopping a flying car in mid air, and all he asked of Spidey is to stay back and webbed down Capt. How about Hawkguy? He is just mere mortal family man, with bows and arrows, and a newborn kid, why did Capt want him along to fight against the UN, cross path with Ironman, and then duke it out with 4 deadly Winter Soldiers? Cos' he is a selfish hypocrite, weakling and coward to do it himself.
Tony did not draft the accords, it is the world governments and they are coming right up the Avengers doorsteps(funded by Tony btw). A wise hero would think through and true, while a selfish daft would choose to punch his own ways around. Tony did the smart and right thing. He knows it is something that needs to be done now, but his character in MCU was never going to give away the Avengers rights. The ending of CW, Tony gave the middle finger to Ross, while the shitty Captain tried to take the higher ground by writing a snarky letter to Mr Stank.
Tony did not send out his Iron Men to hunt down Winter Soldier did he? If the tables were turned and Tony had killed WS, would Capt really decapitated Tony? I feel based on his MCU character arc, Capt would have done so and then.
Why did Tony and Capt acted this way? We just need to look at their growing up days. Tony lost his loving parents, he had to continue the Stark legacy on his own. He learnt of compassion and grief. What about Steve? He grew up being bullied and trolled, and his only relief was his BFF Bucky. No wonder he has that passive-aggressive streak, and his ingrained conscious is forever indebted to Bucky. In this way, he would rather save 1 Bucky and doomed the 100 others, which is what he went with. :/
People just loved Steve because of how prominent his passive side is during peace-talky times. However his actions are just of a selfish soldier out of his times. Capt is the hero the fans loved but do not deserved.
Tony might have a starky mouth, but the golden warmth of his heart keeps everyone snugly at night. #wubTony
you, I LIKE YOU
Scrooge McDuck
Member
I never claimed such a thing.
I'm just clarifying the order of events, because first you said that "going to Germany" hasn't even been brought up when Peter webs Tony's hand, but it has. Then you said that Tony assumed she already knows, but Tony has already been told that she doesn't.
DarkJediKnight
Member
I really feel strongly that this scene should have existed.
Tony: Your hot Aunt's name is May?
Peter: Yes, it's May. Please don't call her hot. It's weird.
Tony: Guess what? My Aunt's name is May too. Are we buddies or what?
.
Tony: Your hot Aunt's name is May?
Peter: Yes, it's May. Please don't call her hot. It's weird.
Tony: Guess what? My Aunt's name is May too. Are we buddies or what?
.
Which is why I really want for the BIG MOMENT of the "AVENGERS ASSEMBLE" line to be uttered by both of them. One starts it, the other one finishes it.
What's really fantastic is that in Civil War, both of them are compromised and end up taken down a big peg by the end of the film. That's one of the big reasons I can't wrap my head around people describing it as a safe movie. What was the last superhero movie that had its principle heroes lose in terms of both their own ethics as well as the villain achieving their goal?
Wonder why Spidey was so invested in impressing Tony while the whole big fight took place? Have we seen everything? Has he realized that Tony forced him to fortune? OMG! The possibilities and opportunities of what was left out.
Both main Avengers - and everyone else - have a lot of flaws. That is what I like about the whole universe.
I would prefer to discuss the girl that left the cinema furious, because Spidey was talking about a "snowplanet" and that Marvel already destroyed Deadpool (haven´t seen that one yet but she was really disappointed that he isn´t behaving as he should in her opinion^^).
I'm tellin ya, Homecoming is going to end with Peter giving Tony the metaphorical finger.
BronsonLee
Member
After Tony gives May the literal finger?
I am not sure what you are trying to argue here. Tony was 100% correct and there was no reason for Peter to feel threatened?
Stark is currently the only person in the universe that knows his identity, he is/has to go along with whatever Tony said if that is going to remain a secret. Tony made his threats known during their conversation and forced Peter to show/admit to his identity
Jeez, lol.
But he doesn't and that's never explicitly or implicitly mentioned.
Have you guys seen this clip of Hawkeye singing about his powers on Jimmy Fallon?
https://youtu.be/aQ27iS1mkuo
https://youtu.be/aQ27iS1mkuo
Welp you just earned yourself a timeout young man.
Like whaaaaaat?Can't believe the Tony hate.
He is a billionaire philanthropist, Mr Avenger himself. His contribution to the MCU society FAR outweighs the rest. He fucking self-lessly took a nuclear arrow to his knee. You gotta forgive him for his stress, and the fact that he is the most remorseful among his peers for their collateral damage, shows how real a hero he is.
Unlike Steve, who simply brush aside and psychopath Wanda that collateral damage is part and parcel of their job, they have lost 1 but saved a 100. But of course by the end of CW, it shows up Capt as a fucking hypocrite. In his desire to save his old war buddy, he gives the L to society, brings his loyal friends along down the hell hole. Capt asking Hawkguy out of retirement is far far worse than Tony recruiting Spidey. Im sure Tony has tons of super-hero viewfinder cams across the globe. He can see Spidey stopping a flying car in mid air, and all he asked of Spidey is to stay back and webbed down Capt. How about Hawkguy? He is just mere mortal family man, with bows and arrows, and a newborn kid, why did Capt want him along to fight against the UN, cross path with Ironman, and then duke it out with 4 deadly Winter Soldiers? Cos' he is a selfish hypocrite, weakling and coward to do it himself.
Tony did not draft the accords, it is the world governments and they are coming right up the Avengers doorsteps(funded by Tony btw). A wise hero would think through and true, while a selfish daft would choose to punch his own ways around. Tony did the smart and right thing. He knows it is something that needs to be done now, but his character in MCU was never going to give away the Avengers rights. The ending of CW, Tony gave the middle finger to Ross, while the shitty Captain tried to take the higher ground by writing a snarky letter to Mr Stank.
Tony did not send out his Iron Men to hunt down Winter Soldier did he? If the tables were turned and Tony had killed WS, would Capt really decapitated Tony? I feel based on his MCU character arc, Capt would have done so and then.
Why did Tony and Capt acted this way? We just need to look at their growing up days. Tony lost his loving parents, he had to continue the Stark legacy on his own. He learnt of compassion and grief. What about Steve? He grew up being bullied and trolled, and his only relief was his BFF Bucky. No wonder he has that passive-aggressive streak, and his ingrained conscious is forever indebted to Bucky. In this way, he would rather save 1 Bucky and doomed the 100 others, which is what he went with. :/
People just loved Steve because of how prominent his passive side is during peace-talky times. However his actions are just of a selfish soldier out of his times. Capt is the hero the fans loved but do not deserved.
Tony might have a starky mouth, but the golden warmth of his heart keeps everyone snugly at night. #wubTony
Tony as a person is not hated, but everybody sees his character flaws. Before Iron Man he was an over the top narcissist, womanizer and weapons manufacturer. It's all because of his childhood though. Tony's parents weren't that loving; his mother well I guess she was the one who showed her affection, but he and Howard never saw eye to eye. One reason because Tony has about the same personality as his father so they butted heads many times and the second reason being that his father idolized Captain America. Tony mentioned a few times that Howard told him countless stories about WWII and how Cap was this amazing person. When Howard died at the ends of Winter Soldier and Tony in school being this wunderkind... there's no one there to keep your feet on the ground. And you get that person at the beginning of the original Iron Man.
Yes, Tony grew as a person. He got out of the weapon business, tries to save the world by climbing into armour, even did some great stuff as an Avenger and does a lot of great things for society; but everybody sees that Tony is a very impulsive man and does something rash without overthinking possible outcomes. That manner of thinking created Ultron.
As for Cap; him clinging to Bucky is understandable. He is his last link to his former life. With Peggy gone and Steve being a 97 year old man essentially, who is left to turn too? Don't get me wrong, Cap acts out of emotion as well, but the only reason why he doesn't agree with how the world treats Winter Soldier is that he believes that a brainwashed man shouldn't be judged that easily. And to be fair, he has a point.
This Spoiler thread is just wrong.
You never see me talking shit like this.
And he risks the life of many other people. Seriously, everyone tries to make a point in favor of the Avenger he prefers. That is fine and all but come on. There is so much wrong with Caps decisions as is with Starks and the rest.
Ok.
BronsonLee
Member
I apologize for nothing
Cap tries to protect Bucky for a few reasons
1) Bucky is Cap's last surviving friend from his original life
2) Bucky is innocent
3) Bucky, as The Winter Soldier, represents everything Cap doesn't want to be - a soldier acting out orders he doesn't believe in
I kind of get the feeling a lot of people miss the deliberate parallel between the Sokovia Accords and Hydra's Red Book.
1) Bucky is Cap's last surviving friend from his original life
2) Bucky is innocent
3) Bucky, as The Winter Soldier, represents everything Cap doesn't want to be - a soldier acting out orders he doesn't believe in
I kind of get the feeling a lot of people miss the deliberate parallel between the Sokovia Accords and Hydra's Red Book.
BronsonLee
Member
Inferno313
Banned
Gotta say, one little touch I liked was the glimpses of the day-to-day life of The Avengers. For some reason, I really liked that shot of Cap sitting at his desk. A small part towards adding to the reality of the world.
Cap have totally been in character in regards to his progression.
The First Avengers - Cap went against Colonel Phillip's commands in order to save Bucky and crew from a Hydra base.
The Winter Soldier - Nick Fury did not disclose full details on the ship rescue mission. Learns about the Hellicarrier initiative that basically points a lock-on systwm at everyone at all times. SHIELD have been infiltrated by Hydra.
Cap have never followed authority blindly. It's been established in Cap1 that he thinks he can make judgement calls and in Cap2 that he had trust issues with authority. It makes total sense why Cap was hesitant to sign with the Sokovia Accords. Learning that Wanda was basically under house arrest, stripping away her FREEDOM, solidified his position against signing.
The First Avengers - Cap went against Colonel Phillip's commands in order to save Bucky and crew from a Hydra base.
The Winter Soldier - Nick Fury did not disclose full details on the ship rescue mission. Learns about the Hellicarrier initiative that basically points a lock-on systwm at everyone at all times. SHIELD have been infiltrated by Hydra.
Cap have never followed authority blindly. It's been established in Cap1 that he thinks he can make judgement calls and in Cap2 that he had trust issues with authority. It makes total sense why Cap was hesitant to sign with the Sokovia Accords. Learning that Wanda was basically under house arrest, stripping away her FREEDOM, solidified his position against signing.
Yeah, I pushed the reply button a bit too fast here because I wanted to post something about Cap too; my argument at the end would be that both Steve and Tony have good points, but made some bad calls overall. There isn't something like "Cap's thing is worse than this" or "Man Tony Stank is a schmuck, Cap was the only with the right reasons" because they both made mistakes.
At the end of Civil War both aren't that different from each other.
Does not need to be. Sorry you have a secret identity and someone else knows it (especially when that person is careless/flippant about revealing it) your identity is no longer safe.
Take your L or whatever you said earlier? I am keeping score on Gaf now 1-0
BronsonLee
Member
How about you both shut up and let me make stupid goddamn jokes instead
Wheeljack539
Member
Question though - what was Cap supposed to do then? What would have been the correct call and keeping in character? Mainly as I can't see any that don't end with Bucky's death and the death of many others in the raid with not only the kill squad but with Black Panther more or less ensuring that Bucky dies.
And with Ross in there if you step outta line your doing time.
Yessir. You saw how that ass just dropped the shield after Tony berated him? Cap really rustled my jimmies in this movie. And it's so crazy considering how much I loved him after watching Winter Soldier.
lmfao
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