She had a straight jacket and the collar on while in the Raft. They were taking no chances.
Of course, no telling if it would have actually worked. She could've just been complacent in her imprisonment.
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Captain America: Civil War SPOILER Thread - #TeamThanos
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She had a straight jacket and the collar on while in the Raft. They were taking no chances.
Of course, no telling if it would have actually worked. She could've just been complacent in her imprisonment.
She looked pretty fuckin pissed though. Tony better watch his back.
Yeah Wanda and Tony's relationship can't be good as she already hated him for the whole, your bombs killed my parent's thing.
I would probably say that Tony better watch his back for all of them. I guess they will all come back together to defeat Thanos but Tony is not on anyone's Christmas list right now.
Outside of Vision and War Machine who is behind Tony now? Spider-Man obviously got into more than he thought he would "Thanks for the suit Tony but I almost got killed"
I mean doesn't he almost get killed every time he goes out Web slinging? Sort of a occupational hazard.
MegaManTrigger
Banned
Not to mention Thor was already pissed at Tony after the whole Ultron shenanigans, and I can't imagine that he'll be pleased with Tony after what happened in Civil War.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Face made of vibranium to not be crushed by his super strength.
Stark Sr. still alive. Believe.
Yeezus H. Christ
Banned
That was fucked, but his wife weakly calling out his name in vain before getting strangled herself was even more fucked.
ThirtyPlus
Member
Not so much. I and everyone I've talked to whose seen the movie has left it pretty sympathetic to Tony's POV.
Reizo Ryuu
Member
Prolly been posted before ¯\_(ツ
_/¯Wasn't Thor literally patting Tony on the back for "doing a good job" with Vision
The biggest reasons for me not being sympathetic to Tony and his team just related to the events in the movie (leaving out his previous mistakes/guilt for Ultron and others)
1. The recruitment of Spider-Man for many reasons but the biggest that he is a teenager - Steve's recruitment of AntMan was more up front and honest about what the consequences were
2. Vision's shot that took down War Machine would have easily killed Falcon and when Falcon came to say he was sorry, Tony blew him away - Not needed Steve would never have done that.
3. He was trying to kill both Bucky and Steve at the end while they were both trying to disable his suit. - At the end of the day, what is the difference who killed his parents other than Hydra. Bucky had no choice in the matter, he was being mind controlled by Hydra to become a hit man and Tony knew this. Bucky was more of a gun that Hydra aimed and pulled the trigger than a person with free will to make a choice.
StarCreator
Member
I'd need to see the movie again to confirm myself, but it was theorized by someone in thread earlier that the shot was kind of a focused EMP - it did no physical damage upon hitting the War Machine armor but completely disabled the electronics. Falcon, if hit by that, at least can glide to safety, but War Machine plummeted.
It looks like it chrews through the armor to me. (Look at the chest.)
I dunno, if it had hit Falcon, I think he'd be a goner.
Tony even says "Make him glide" or something like that, which means Vision was ordered to only fire at the Sam's thrusters. Whether that blast would've torn right through and killed him if he weren't careful, who knows? That blast was the same yellow beam that Vision used before to sear a line into pavement and fucking melt Ultron.
GOOD post. Tony has tried to make amends with his past as a weapons maker. And it's like comeuppance just wasn't done with him yet. I honestly have no idea what good he's gonna be to Peter in Homecoming if he's stuck in that new holodeck of his, dealing with his ever increasing PTSD.
demosthenes
Member
Judging by post credits Peter is not at all angry with Tony.
And Peter did not almost get killed, not by a long shot. I think that was the toughest thing he's had to do so far in 6 months and was just tired.
It looks like it chrews through the armor to me. (Look at the chest.)
I dunno, if it had hit Falcon, I think he'd be a goner.
Rhodey specifically tells Vision to aim for Falcon's propulsion system to turn him into a glider, aka disable his ability to fly but allow him to safely land, and then the camera zooms right into Falcon's jet pack. It presumably would have blown up his jet propulsion but not disabled the wings, but Falcon spins out of the way and it happens to hit War Machine's chest, right where the power system for the suit is.
I dont remember him saying "Make him Glide" but that changes it a little if that's what he said but like everyone saw it ripped War Machine apart.
Regardless, once Falcon saw what had happened he immediately stopped to try and help. Would Tony have done the same if the situation were reversed? Rhodes might have but I doubt Tony would.
While Iron Man definitely made some major fuck-ups (I'd add the entirely unjustified Wanda house arrest), when it comes to the wedge issue between the two sides, the Accords, Tony was undeniably in the right.
But to make the whole premise of a Civil War work, they had to make both sides act like idiots sometimes. Cap finds out that there's Buck's been framed, and his immediate thought is "can't tell anyone about this, clearly we should just punch our way through half the Avengers instead!" And when he throws out a one-line explanation mid-battle royale, Stark has to respond with "I don't have time for your explanations, clearly you're just being over emotional." (aside: I was totally expecting Stark's memory hologram to come into play to prove that Bucky was telling the truth about Zemo) Standard sitcom misunderstanding to keep the drama going.
I loved the movie on the whole, but parts of it just felt so forced, especially Tony's murderous rage at the end. But even more forced was how Cap's ludicrous notion that he and his ragtag group of super heroes have the best judgment in the world turned out to be true, with every authority figure (genius philanthropists included) acting like morons.
BronsonLee
Member
It's all Falcon's fault
Should've let Vision bop him
Should've let Vision bop him
Also there's no way Peter Parker as of now hates Tony. The guy is the only one that came out winning on the whole deal.
I can't believe the bastard had the nerve to apologize.
I can't believe the bastard had the nerve to apologize.
StarCreator
Member
Okay, yeah, then it's obvious it was incredibly irresponsible to take an unguided shot like that at a basically unarmored flyer. There was absolutely no way to guarantee a disabling hit rather than a lethal one against a moving target from that distance.
BronsonLee
Member
Vision thought Falcon was the one who concussed Wanda
Vision confirmed to be SUPER RACIST
Vision confirmed to be SUPER RACIST
demosthenes
Member
Which I think is more on Vision and his "being distracted". He didn't care about the mission in that moment.
The thing with Vision is that it's not an unguided shot. It's not like he has to aim his mind laser beam, it just goes where he wants it to. He was dead on target (camera zoomed in right to Falcon's jets), but he was distracted by his human-like concern for Wanda and therefore didn't account for War Machine being behind his target, and didn't account for his target spinning out of the way.
Wheeljack539
Member
Exactly how was Cap supposed to tell them Bucky was framed? Stark's comment at the airport to Steve was "Your judgement is askewed" in that Steve was going to say anything to save his friend (and this was before the fight and just before Stark called in Spiderman). And by that point would he have been believed? Would Ross have believed him? We all saw him blow off Tony when Tony realized that he was wrong.
The only reason the 'punching' happened was because the moment Stark and the others confronted them there was no other way forward with the only other option was surrender. And by that point all would have been put aboard the Raft. God knows what they would have been done to Bucky since all the evidence was against him.
This is a fairly circular argument in this thread, but "undeniably" is completely wrong.
Within the context of the movie itself there are numerous examples of where government oversight is absolutely wrong in the MCU and ultimately Tony himself disobeys the accord.
You can be Team Iron Man because you empathize with his position and what he's trying to do, but the accords are anything but undeniably right.
In movie examples include sending a hit-squad to kill Bucky based upon surveillance footage (he was innocent of what he was being hunted for), threatening to send hit-squads to arrest Cap and team (and shoot them if necessary), and not listening to Tony regarding Zemo. This is just within Civil War, not counting other times in the MCU where oversight committees have almost destroyed New York or launched those assassin heli-carriers.
plasmawave
Banned
The airport fight was a lot goofier than I expected. Wish they could have taken it a little more seriously like they did with Cap and Bucky VS Ironman at the end.
pete's probably going to get a sweet internship out of it too
SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
It looks like it chrews through the armor to me. (Look at the chest.)
I dunno, if it had hit Falcon, I think he'd be a goner.
Tony had specifically told the vision to disable the falcon and make him a glider.
to aim for the motor of his wings.
Yep, good points. They really had to push the time limits along to create the conflict. Steve should have called Tony "Hey Stank, it wasnt Bucky. He was framed and we think Zemo is about to wake up 5 other more powerful Winter Soldiers. Can we just follow this lead and if we are wrong we will come in/sign the Accords"
Definitely. He was distracted by Wanda. Otherwise, it would have been safer probably for him to fly up closer and take the shot or even just take out Falcon himself. (Assuming Vision was fast enough.)
Reizo Ryuu
Member
Stark didn't tell vision to do anything in the fight.
That's part of the point though, and the reason the fight at the end is allowed to get more serious. The airport fight is basically like two friends going at it until it crosses the line ( they literally cross the line Vision makes to start the fight in earnest), and then the playful fighting turns into real fighting.
It's like when the one friend starts giving the other one shit and it's all funny and everyone is having a good time, and then he keeps going and the one taking the shit actually gets upset and throws it back in the shit talker's face asserting this isn't funny, and then the shit talker gets overly defensive because they are kind of embarrassed about pushing things too far but don't want to admit to it, and then personal issues that have nothing to do with it come bubbling to the surface and things almost come to blows and now they are actually mad at each other and stuff is said that can't be taken back and everyone else is feeling super awkward.
That's what the airport fight is. It's Tony going "Haha! Alright now stop. For real now though, stop. Seriously, knock it off. DUDE, enough already. FINE FUCK YOU."
Correct - pretty sure it was Rhodey that calls for the shot.
That...would defeat the entire purpose of the airport scene though. No one was out for blood during that scene Except for BP as opposed to Tony literally trying to kill Bucky at the end.
Tony absolutely would have. Dude's not a monster.
StarCreator
Member
If it was a guided shot then he should have been able to make it change course to not hit War Machine. Regardless of how distracted he was, he fired the shot and should have been following through with it.
Give Tony a call. Tell him what Bucky said. Let him follow that lead (apparently all the evidence necessary was in the real psychiatrist's hotel room ffs).
Or volunteer to come in and let Tony use the memory hologram on Bucky. If his story checks out about the fake psychiatrist pulling out Hydra passphrases and whatnot, Bucky's cleared.
But part of what I'm talking about is that everyone had to behave a little bit like a moron for the Civil War plot to work. Cap had to say "no way they'd believe this totally believable story with various sources of evidence available," but Stark also had to be a moron and not believe the totally believable story.
Again, it's the sitcom misunderstanding thing: person A has to ineffectually babble "it's not what it looks like!" and person B has to say "I'm not going to stand here and listen!" Both characters behave like idiots.
I thought it was Rhodey who asked Vision to get Falcon "off of him" I don't remember the Glider line but maybe he did say something like that. I've only seen the movie once.
Yeah. those two fights HAVE to have a dissimilar tone, because the last fight of the movie was deadass serious. Tony isn't trying to incapacitate WS, or arrest him and take him in like they were at the airport. He is trying to kill them both (since cap is at a state of basically 'over my dead body'). I felt they did a good job with the tone in the two fights. The airport felt very different than the final fight. I have to give most of the credit to RDJ. The guy is not phoning in these performances man, he is a phenomenal actor.
I guess we'll find out in Homecoming.
GuitarAtomik
Member
Yeah.
The thing is, whether he hit Falcon or not doesn't matter. IIRC, the way that beam tore through War Machine it wouldn't have stopped had it hit the jetpack. It would have torn through and still have hit War Machine. That's the specific distraction. Like Griffy mentions, his aim was on point, he just didn't take in to account that WM would be hit too.
plasmawave
Banned
Them taking the fight more seriously would defeat the purpose of the airport fight? Wut?
I'm not asking them to kill each other. Just cut back on the jokes is all I'm saying.
I was completely disengaged from it because there were no stakes. You just knew everyone was gonna turn out fine in the end (except Vision fucking up and paralyzing War Machine).
MegaManTrigger
Banned
Tony's position is something one can sympathize with, but he's not undeniably right, just like how Captain America isn't undeniably right. In fact, why is it that people think that just because Cap is against the Sokovian Accords that it must mean that Cap thinks heroes have better judgment. It seems to be a false dichotomy fallacy that I see whenever it comes to thinking that if Cap doesn't favouring one position, that it must necessarily mean that he is against said position. The worse thing too is that people are completely mislabelling Cap as this "self-righteous dick" when he's not.
Take a look at this, especially the bolded:
That doesn't speak like someone who thinks he's above the law. In fact, he's one of the few that actually respects it. Cap was originally interested in starting discussion about how the Sokovia Accords could be changed, but he cannot take Tony's side when it appears that the Accords/Law doesn't even respect the rights of people.
I think the bigger problem is Vision thinking that it's okay to use the Laser Beam on someone who isn't even protected and is completely exposed. Not to mention, he didn't take into account that War Machine wasn't very far from Falcon. It's very unlike Vision to be this reckless.
He might have but most likely would have told Rhodes to get him but we saw Tony's dark side on screen when he was pushed by Zemo.
Tony shooting Falcon after Rhodes went down really was a dick move though, showed how little he cared for Falcon in the slightest.
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