Yeezus H. Christ
Banned
Always like your movie impressions, Ghaleon, did you have one for Civil War?
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Captain America: Civil War SPOILER Thread - #TeamThanos
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Always like your movie impressions, Ghaleon, did you have one for Civil War?
He was head of an elite Sokovian black ops squad. He's definitely had combat training.
Wheeljack539
Member
Wow. You really don't get Cap at all, do you?
this is a truth that Cap fans just won't accept, being righteous doesn't always make you right by default. Heck even Rhodes calls him impossibly arrogant to think he knows better than 170 + nations. Tony Stank came off more human and shows actual guilt and remorse than Cap.
longdi
Banned
Yes he is an old dick who acts on the moment and thinks too highly of his 'infalible' self
Anyone else watch the Collider Q&A?
They touched on a line that really confused me. When Bucky escapes and is fighting Black Widow she says something like, "do you not even recognize me?" or "do you not even remember me?" something like that. Anyway, I didn't really get why she'd say that to him since I felt like she only really knew him in Winter Soldier.
The Russos reminded me that they had met before and he had shot through her to assassinate someone. However, they also hinted that Black Widow might have some secret connections to Bucky that we don't know about.
Wonder if she worked with him back when she was still a Russian spy.
Yeah but I feel like the movie makes it seem like even though he might be a pretty capable fighter, he's no match for any of the Avengers. He has a line about how he couldn't fight them head on so he had to figure out another way to defeat them.
They touched on a line that really confused me. When Bucky escapes and is fighting Black Widow she says something like, "do you not even recognize me?" or "do you not even remember me?" something like that. Anyway, I didn't really get why she'd say that to him since I felt like she only really knew him in Winter Soldier.
The Russos reminded me that they had met before and he had shot through her to assassinate someone. However, they also hinted that Black Widow might have some secret connections to Bucky that we don't know about.
Wonder if she worked with him back when she was still a Russian spy.
Yeah but I feel like the movie makes it seem like even though he might be a pretty capable fighter, he's no match for any of the Avengers. He has a line about how he couldn't fight them head on so he had to figure out another way to defeat them.
Nope
Jerk!
Maybe it was the amount of one liners and laugh out loud moments, but it felt like Cap/Bucky and Tony were on one tone while the others were sparring and having friendly combat holding there punches (hell even Captain is smiling and joking when he's jostling with Spider-Man). Tony and Black Panther are the only ones, and Widow at the end, who are taking it seriously.
Well BP was the coolest of them all and we see where he was at the end.
Scrooge McDuck
Member
Bah, with "Budapest" in The Avengers, that 10 seconds flashback in Age of Ultron, and now this, Natasha having this seemingly exciting backstory and escapades we don't know about is quickly becoming a running gag. I wouldn't be surprised if Thanos suddenly blurts "so, we meet again" to her in Infinity War.
MegaManTrigger
Banned
How is Ultron a "calculated chance"? Did you read everything I said? Stark blatantly experimented with unknown technology out of desperation. That's the ANTITHESIS of being smart. He was irrational during that whole issue.
I swear you have an incorrect and tainted view of Captain America because I just showed you twice, how he wasn't even a violence-driven person and you've yet to show how he's even a violent person. Captain America managed to see things that Stark didn't, and yet it's amazing how Stark is viewed as "the smart one."
Also why should Cap just trust Tony for the sake of trusting? Just because he's Tony Stark, doesn't mean he's an infallible and 100% genius that one should always have faith in. That's a hypocritical argument you're making. First you lambaste Cap for being this "infallible, self-righteous figure" and yet you're painting Tony Stark as this self-righteous and infallible genius. What an insanely hypocritical stance to take. After all, we're talking about a guy who has flip-flopped between being anti-government in IM1+2 (because he didn't want to give up his suits), and is only now being pro-government because he made a stupid machine that nearly destroyed civilization.
Again why should Rogers get the blame when it was clearly Stark who decided that it was somehow a smart move to bring in a teenager to a man's war? What did Stark expect? Even when Cap was pulling his punches, he was still hurting others in a way, just like how Team Iron Man was hurting people (Don't forget how Vision was nearly about to kill Falcon before he ended up hurting and paralyzing War Machine).
Let's completely forget that it was Tony who built a stupid AI with zero knowledge of the Scepter's technology that resulted in the mess in Sokovia. Of course he should feel guilty, but he's completely reckless and hypocritical for forcing people to sign the Accords when he's the one being an idiot.
ShinoguTakeruKoeru
Member
You're one of those people who saw that YouTube video saying that Captain America's One Flaw is that he always needs a war, aren't you?
He doesn't think that he's infallible, he doesn't lord his opinions over others, doesn't hate people for disagreeing with him.
He's acting against the Accords because Bucky has the down-low on the 5 Winter Soldiers that they all think Zemo is going to unleash on the world. Hell, Cap heads off to neutralize Bucky when everyone suspects him for the bombing because he believes that he'd be able to do it without anyone else dying. Try to picture that apartment setpiece without Cap. At least a few dead bodies when Cap's not there to look out for Bucky going too far, and then T'Challa slits his throat in revenge-fueled rage. Welp.
I bet you'd say Good riddance to that.
Cap isn't a robot, he's just inured to the reality of the Hero dilemma. You can't save everyone, but that doesn't stop him trying. When they save everyone? HOLY SHIT YEAH, we're all happy and rootin' for them! They don't need Accords pointing them at whatever conflict the nebulous council deems worthy in order to do their job, and it wouldn't make the pain of loss and casualties any easier.
Tony gets those beats in the story because
A. Tony in the original Civil War story arc, which broadly inspired this movie, is pro-Political Papers.
B. Frankly we've never seen Tony hit those emotional beats in his movies since the first Iron Man, which treated it more as an origin story layer, and also hits hardest after the 2 Avengers films that placed him front-and-center in the villains' plans.
C. RDJ gets awesome material to act with!
Tony is cast as the Unstoppable Force, and Cap is the Immovable Object. Watch them clash!
Yeezus H. Christ
Banned
Vision, War Machine, and Scarlet Witch were definitely taking things seriously. Spidey couldn't concern himself with the actual core of the conflict, he's just there to web everyone up. Ant-Man's just goofy as hell naturally, couldn't see him investing in it considering he's more or less an outsider.
Now, the question you're asking is, is the airport fight being light-hearted good? In my opinion, it's the breath of fresh air the movie needed, the breather we got before the actual emotional battle in the third act. It's obviously impossible to implement a realistic scenario where all twelve of the characters are actively trying to kill each other; these guys have known each other for years. At best, you could have some of the players take it seriously and others not so much, while making sure the battle still culminates in consequence.
And that's exactly what we got. Certain fighters weren't joking around, the bug heroes were. The way the battle still ends in great injury is an effective tonal set-up for the third act.
Would having the airport fight be 100% serious be good? Possibly, but I wouldn't prefer it. If done, the movie's entire tone would be grim the whole way through, and I've no doubt the film would suffer for it. It honestly comes down to what you like, as it always does, but much of the emotional drama was saved for the main players in Siberia, as it should've been.
Sadly they cut the scene out of my screening because they don't show kissing here. So all we got was two people suddenly staring at each other awkwardly and then end scene. I had seen that gif previously and was looking forward to this scene because people said how much they liked it.
117 politicians, not 117 nations. There is a massive difference. One does not always represent the wishes or desires of the nation they claim to represent.
Yeezus H. Christ
Banned
lmao wtf where do you live?
They ruined the funniest scene in the movie for you guys.
But then when Steve leaves to go to the toilet Bucky and Sam find they have nothing in common and it's just awkward. It is only when they make fun of Steve can they relate.
Kuwait aka diet Saudi Arabia. Actually I'm not sure I should be telling you that, they have a cyber crimes unit that lock people up for years for criticizing the government on social media.
Well there was a common enemy,but Tony was just too pig headed to listen. Not what I meant though. Team Cap alone actually fighting the other 5 winter soldiers is a fight I would love to see.
Just wanted to see them go all out. I know that's coming in the IW ...hopefully.
That is a travesty. I'm sorry.
On the bright side Marvel will probably put it on youtube in like a couple weeks, judging by how aggressively they're just releasing clips all over the place.
So let me get this straight, it's ok to let Bucky walk because because he brainwashed but despite Tony being mind-raped by wanda into creating Ultron he should shoulder all the responsibility for that mess? Ultron was right about Cap. He needs something to punch constantly he doesn't want the war to end. It's you who has a warped view of cap. Your idolatry blinds you.
He didn't force anyone to sign anything, Tony was trying to be as pragmatic as possible and you can tell he was conflicted (props to rdj for acting circles around everybody) in this.
The lack of accountability is clear, the world owes the avengers but who watches the watchmen? wanda kills dozens of people in Lagos and I'm sorry but hankering down in a loft somewhere for a while with a super advanced and hilarious robot buddy is not the worst thing in the world. Most get worse for way less.
Man, it's really fucked up how someone hacked your account and posted that.
Siddx is a known patriot who loves his country.
Thats how it goes on Gaf, sometimes it you and other times it's not.
Haha it's ok, I'm a US citizen expat who is just working here so they'd probably just deport me overnight without letting me take any of my things with me.
Yeezus H. Christ
Banned
It'd be sick to see that, but I'm glad it was a red herring. Makes it much more unique as vs. movie and keeps the central conflict between the two sides. Makes for one of the best third acts in a CBM in years.
Whereas we'd definitely know Team Cap would eventually beat the five Winter Soldiers with some difficulty, Tony vs. Cap was legitimately a battle where guessing the victor was a toss-up. At one point, I really thought Cap would bite the bullet.
longdi
Banned
Yap and Tony didn't put no one under house arrest. He just wanted Wanda out of the picture until things settle down. Cap already made things shittier than it needed to be.
But that idiot self righteous cap thought otherwise and probably said some tinfoil shit to hawkguy.
There exists no reality in the infinite number that exist where this is actually true.
ShinoguTakeruKoeru
Member
...
I FORGOT THAT HAPPENED! I blame everything else happening around that time.
Human Fighter Jet, hell yeah.
Yeezus H. Christ
Banned
did anyone catch Wanda putting up a magic bullet shield behind her as she drew out the gas
what a pro jeez
what a pro jeez
Choppasmith
Member
Okay, just got back from seeing it and boy is it something. Perfect blend of everything. Really wish the Russo brothers could have stepped up sooner with Age of Ultron. There's humor, but it didn't feel overdone at all. My favorite moment had to be the literal "Oh shit!" moment from Spider-Man. It sucks we see so little of him. Kinda reminds me of Hawkeye's first small appearance in Thor.
One question though. Has there been any kind of clarification regarding Alfre Woodard's character? I heard she was already cast for Luke Cage, but looking on IMDB, they're credited as different people. For Luke Cage, she's playing Mariah Dillard and in Civil War, she's Miriam.
One question though. Has there been any kind of clarification regarding Alfre Woodard's character? I heard she was already cast for Luke Cage, but looking on IMDB, they're credited as different people. For Luke Cage, she's playing Mariah Dillard and in Civil War, she's Miriam.
This guy, man.
Imagine you get a call "congrats, you're T'Challa, the Black Panther. You're going to work with the Russos and you'll co-star with Chris Evans, RDJ and all the other Avengers." Then you get your costume and it's baller as all fuck, you're reading your script and it's all like "dude, this guy is a whole new level of badass!", and then shooting wraps, the movie goes out into cinemas and people are getting excited over Black Panther and you realize IT'S NOT EVEN YOUR SOLO MOVIE YET.
I'd need muscle-relaxers to stop smiling.
Her name isn't said on screen, so it can be fan wanked.
She just happened to get cast in both by accident is what I think I read. The two sides (television, movies) are headed by different people.
Hawkeye had less screentime in Thor than Aunt May in Civil War. What are you talking about?
Silent_Ocarina
Member
Both Rogers and Stark were wrong in different ways. Their disposition in Civil War are, I think, a reflection of their past experiences. In Avengers, Rogers fully trusts Fury and criticizes Stark for not adhering to the mission. Stark goes against authority multiple times. Post Age of Ultron and Winter Soldier, we see the roles reversed. Stark is more in line with rules and regulations as a result of the guilt stemming from Ultron. Rogers is more resistant to a central authority.
I don't blame Tony for doing what he did. He's obviously broken over shouldering the guilt of Ultron, dealing with the breakup with Pepper, and the fact that most of his friends are against him now. I don't think it's quite fair to use Spider-Man as a point against Tony. I doubt the writers really even thought of Spider-Man as a criticism against Stark. They just wanted Spider-Man in the airport fight, so they had Tony get him. I don't think the point of that scene was to show that Tony is irresponsible and selfish. And I don't really think it was a huge deal that he wanted to keep Wanda indoors. He wanted to protect her, and he did it the only way he knew how, much like some parents. Maybe the method was wrong, but the intentions were good.
Similarly, I don't blame Rogers for protecting Bucky. After all, he's the last remaining remnant of Cap's time. He was right to go to Bucky before the others found him. It was hard to sympathize with him at the end, though. Even at the airport scene, when Stark was clearly just distressed and desperate, Cap actually told Tony he was the one who broke up the Avengers by signing the Accords. That was a rather shitty way of talking to someone who was supposed to be your friend. He put all the blame for what had happened on Tony when they both are at fault. And he totally lied to Tony about his parents, too. And used the shield Howard made to defend his killer. I would have liked Bucky to acknowledge the murder a little more, at least. The whole "I remember all of them" was a good start, but nothing came out of that. He didn't really seem to feel any remorse and just depended on Cap to bail him out.
Cap's letter to Tony at the end did gain back some of the respect I lost for him, but I can't help but feel that Tony just got the short end of the stick this whole movie.
I don't blame Tony for doing what he did. He's obviously broken over shouldering the guilt of Ultron, dealing with the breakup with Pepper, and the fact that most of his friends are against him now. I don't think it's quite fair to use Spider-Man as a point against Tony. I doubt the writers really even thought of Spider-Man as a criticism against Stark. They just wanted Spider-Man in the airport fight, so they had Tony get him. I don't think the point of that scene was to show that Tony is irresponsible and selfish. And I don't really think it was a huge deal that he wanted to keep Wanda indoors. He wanted to protect her, and he did it the only way he knew how, much like some parents. Maybe the method was wrong, but the intentions were good.
Similarly, I don't blame Rogers for protecting Bucky. After all, he's the last remaining remnant of Cap's time. He was right to go to Bucky before the others found him. It was hard to sympathize with him at the end, though. Even at the airport scene, when Stark was clearly just distressed and desperate, Cap actually told Tony he was the one who broke up the Avengers by signing the Accords. That was a rather shitty way of talking to someone who was supposed to be your friend. He put all the blame for what had happened on Tony when they both are at fault. And he totally lied to Tony about his parents, too. And used the shield Howard made to defend his killer. I would have liked Bucky to acknowledge the murder a little more, at least. The whole "I remember all of them" was a good start, but nothing came out of that. He didn't really seem to feel any remorse and just depended on Cap to bail him out.
Cap's letter to Tony at the end did gain back some of the respect I lost for him, but I can't help but feel that Tony just got the short end of the stick this whole movie.
Wait, I do have a question that doesn't have to do with badass people doing dope ass dropkicks on motherfuckin helicopters.
What was up with the weird repulsion between T'challa and Bucky's arm? I was thinking it had something to do with vibranium, but nothing similar happens when Bucky interacts with Cap's shield.
What was up with the weird repulsion between T'challa and Bucky's arm? I was thinking it had something to do with vibranium, but nothing similar happens when Bucky interacts with Cap's shield.
Bucky's arm isn't Vibranium.
Yeezus H. Christ
Banned
It's actually sort of ridiculous how quickly Black Panther has been accepted by the mainstream with just one movie.
Bam, Civil War, bam, everyone's loving Wakanda and this dude in a cat costume, bam, one of the best young directors in Hollywood today has BP's solo film in just two years.
Like, it took them 3 films to get Cap right. With BP, an unknown, only one.
Bam, Civil War, bam, everyone's loving Wakanda and this dude in a cat costume, bam, one of the best young directors in Hollywood today has BP's solo film in just two years.
Like, it took them 3 films to get Cap right. With BP, an unknown, only one.
I meant the vibranium in T'challa's suit just reacting weirdly to Bucky's arm for whatever reason.
JustAnotherMike
Member
I just saw it and man what a ride. It didn't have that frantic tension of TWS, but a slower build up that was great. My only complaint is that the Ant-Man/Hawkeye combo wasn't the animated series combo I wanted. I guess they have to drive home the guy can go really small and mess with electronics.
I can see her agent smiling wide and doing the "Two Marvel Checks" dance.
I can see her agent smiling wide and doing the "Two Marvel Checks" dance.
What a crock of shit. This wasn't the complaint you started with, you began by trying to argue the plot points didn't even make sense to begin with. And now that people have explained what was obvious to everyone else but you, you're moving goal posts. Again. Just like I said you would.
But here's the real shit in your cereal. The levity of the airport fight scene you're bitching about absolutely, without question is an intentional story telling device. Yes, to most of those involved, it almost felt like a sparring match. Most of them felt like they were pulling some punches. The audience gets caught up in the fun of the moment too. But then what happens? How does this fight end? Rhodey gets shot unintentionally (which is a REALLY IMPORTANT DETAIL BTW) and falls like a rock for what feels like at least half a minute. And instead of being caught at the end like the film had lead you to believe woould happen, he lands with a deafening thud. I can't tell you the last time I've heard the theater wince that audibly. For all the insane action in Fury Road, there isn't a single blow in that entire film that hits with that much impact.
That's because the Russos intentionally cut the rug out from under the audience. Instead of everyone continuing to smile and laugh at how much fun they had, everyone immediately comes down to earth. Rhodey is fucking crippled by collateral damage. And instead of just dying, which would be emotionally lazy, Rhodey is now a living, limping, constant reminder to Tony of the consequences of the superhero community running around unchecked. The tool he created is responsible no less, which is a running theme Tony has been struggling with since the first Iron Man, i.e. the start of the MCU.
So despite you being unable to see these really obvious narrative threads, the lighter tone of the airport fight is entirely deliberate from a story telling point of view. Not only that but it was goddamn necessary to drive the point home that the Avengers operating in any capacity carries with it with it enormous risks, regardless of how much fun the audience has watching them.
Now that I've explained to you why it works from a story telling perspective, and you yourself have admitted in your own post that the plot mechanics work, feel free to move the goal post yet again.
Manmademan
Member
Lot of truth here. There have been some hilariously terrible actions coming out of the US Congress that would be hard to see even the average citizen screwing up that badly.
Politics is messy business.
In that case, he absolutely should yell it.
Cap: C'MON! WE'VE GOT TO GET TO THE CHOPPER!
Ant-Man: YEAH! WE HAVE TO-...wait...*stops running*....heh
Falcon: did he just?...ha...
Hawkeye: yeah....GET TO DA CHOPPAH!...hahaha!
Cap: What? What's so funny?
That's very true, lots of their decision history is very crazy. However the USA is just one country among 127, so unless suddenly 127 countries are all like the USA and are crazy, you can't dismiss their wishes either
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