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Captain America: Civil War SPOILER Thread - #TeamThanos

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Lemonheap said:
You oviously cannot, as the ending shows. I believe general Ross would hulk the fuck out about that.

I agree with you, of course they won't kill anyone but there's still some excitement lost in the plot for me when there's never any risk. Daredevil for this reason is more gripping imo.
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i think the risk of the Avengers being broken up beyond repair is far more troubling than the risk of ... some random sidekick losing his life.
What people love about the Avengers, more than anything, are the 'buddy' moments. Those moments are at risk here!
 
I don't understand why somebody always needs to die. What's the point of that in this movie? They're all fighting for what they believe in but that doesn't mean they want to kill each other.

The only point in the movie where that's true was when Tony was just angry as fuck at Bucky for killing his parents. They came close to killing each other but by the end they both realized they're better people than that and admit to their own mistakes.

The point of the movie is not to exterminate the Avengers but to break them. Which what happened at the end.
 
cacildo said:
Remember when people complained that Age of Ultron was like only a few days?

Well... this civil war was kinda far from a civil war...

And also... the whole super hero legislation plot got forgotten pretty quick... and it should have been the focus of the whole thing...
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What movie were you watching? It wasn't forgotten at all.

And also... the first hour sucks
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It doesn't. The opening action spectacle was really awesome and there were plenty of good character moments/dialogue past that in the first act.

Lemonheap said:
as usual the stakes are low as fuck.
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You seem to live under the wildly erroneous assumption that death is the only "stake" that there can be in a movie, which is silly. Stakes come in many forms.
 
rouken said:
I don't understand why somebody always needs to die. What's the point of that in this movie? They're all fighting for what they believe in but that doesn't mean they want to kill each other.
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Many gaffers are pretty binary about death = weight / stakes.

That creepy Ross prison seems worse than death though.
 
icespide said:
my biggest issue with the film was Zemo's ultimate reason for setting all of this up was just because he was another person who lost something in Sokovia. Thought that reveal would have a better payoff
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But this was one of my favorite interpretations in the movie; Zemo embodies the whole theme of the consequences of their actions, and what vision was talking about the causality of the avengers just existing. His talk with black panther and attempted suicide at the end is one of the best scenes in the movie. I was so scared that they would fall into the genre trap of making him some megolomaniac with an agenda, and I liked that he was just a man driven by a very primal and relatable motivation.
 
rouken said:
The point of the movie is not to exterminate the Avengers but to break them. Which what happened at the end.
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Give it some closure then. Give ross some dialogue. As usual it's "we'll deal with this in a future movie" whoch gets really tiring. Nobody has to die necessarily, but when the story lacks a good epilogue it almost needs that. In Force Awakens that's true, where a character's death serves as the film's sort of closure. This movie would have benefitted from something like that although I would have preferred something else than "yeah all these criminals under UN jurisdiction is getting out and the avengers r awsum" like at least a meeting were Ross echoes Thanos with a "I'll do it myself" line.
 
Lemonheap said:
Give it some closure then.
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There was closure. Cap's letter was a pretty good closure for the main storyline of the movie. No need for some contrived speech from Ross. The movie was about dividing Stark & Rogers and the movie ends with them divided for good (or at least until such a big thread comes along that they need each other's help *coughinfinitywarcough*) with Cap's letter lamenting the fact that it happened and apologizing for being wrong for hiding secret of Stark's parents' death, yet leaving a little bit of hope for reconciliation in the future, acknowledging that Cap isn't resentful of what happened between him & Stark while simultaneously understanding that they can't go back to where they were before.
 
As Bucky and Steve are in Wakanda at the end of the movie, I'm wondering if Cap appears (even for a short time) in the Black Panther movie.
 
Blade30 said:
As Bucky and Steve are in Wakanda at the end of the movie, I'm wondering if Cap appears (even for a short time) in the Black Panther movie.
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I would bet on that.

Maybe he even become a member of Tonys Avengers while beeing member of Steves Secret Avengers... Which would be fucking awesome.
 
So all of the persecuted Avengers are in Wakanda now?

GAMEPROFF said:
No.
asm5signal.jpg
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I thought that was a belt thing.
 
Famassu said:
There was closure. Cap's letter was a pretty good closure for the main storyline of the movie. No need for some contrived speech from Ross. The movie was about dividing Stark & Rogers and the movie ends with them divided for good (or at least until such a big thread comes along that they need each other's help *coughinfinitywarcough*) with Cap's letter lamenting the fact that it happened and apologizing for being wrong for hiding secret of Stark's parents' death, yet leaving a little bit of hope for reconciliation in the future, acknowledging that Cap isn't resentful of what happened between him & Stark while simultaneously understanding that they can't go back to where they were before.
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It's easy to take the high road when you're the one who
won #teamcap
 
just got back from this. very fun, enjoyable movie :)

i got some comments and questions but will read back first and see if others had covered same grounds or not :)

love cap and bucky friendship in this, really captured winter soldier's vibe and followed through and carried it well

*_____*
 
Blade30 said:
As Bucky and Steve are in Wakanda at the end of the movie, I'm wondering if Cap appears (even for a short time) in the Black Panther movie.
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I'm betting Cap will sit out but Bucky gets reactivated for some mid-plot reason.

Cap busy leading the secret avengers.
 
Saw it yesterday, enjoyed it. Though I thought the first half dragged a bit.

Loved Spider-Man. He stole the show for me. Can't wait to see his solo flick.

Been on a media blackout for this. Who is Martin Freeman's character? He seemed to be a random high up security officer or something.. Any talks about his MCU future?
 
Freeman was Ross Everett, the UN person in contact to Wakanda and Black Panther. He will be pretty sure in BP.

Blade30 said:
It is but it doesn't matter if he's using a belt or his webshooters in the movie.
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Putting it on a belt would be very akward to point around. Makes sense to out it on the Webshooter... Which I hate because now Stark really almost build everything for Spidey.
At least he really configured the original webshooter...
 
Wurst said:
Saw it yesterday, enjoyed it. Though I thought the first half dragged a bit.

Loved Spider-Man. He stole the show for me. Can't wait to see his solo flick.

Been on a media blackout for this. Who is Martin Freeman's character? He seemed to be a random high up security officer or something.. Any talks about his MCU future?
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I don't know for sure but I think I read somewhere that his character appears a lot in the Black Panther comics and has a relationship with T'Challa similar to Gordon and Batman, so I'd assume he appears in the Black Panther movie.

GAMEPROFF said:
Putting it on a belt would be very akward to point around. Makes sense to out it on the Webshooter... Which I hate because now Stark really almost build everything for Spidey.
At least he really configured the original webshooter...
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Did it also had e-mail and stuff or was I just imagining it? I'm sure a saw some icons on the border.
 
Blade30 said:
I don't know for sure but I think I read somewhere that his character appears a lot in the Black Panther comics and has a relationship with T'Challa similar to Gordon and Batman, so I'd assume he appears in the Black Panther movie.
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If Gordon traded his soul for pants and was all around weasel
 
Okay, so I think about it a lot since I watched it yesterday, and the more I think about it, the more I like Zemo.

Sure, his scheme is somewhat unnecessarily complicated, but I can relate to him, his anger, his rage, his plight, his vengeance that drove him to such extreme extent just to destroy the Avengers.

He felt strangely human amid all those extraordinary characters. I mean, he is obviously just a normal guy, he knows his limitation, he knows what he can and can't do. And he knows enough to quit when he's winning.

And then Black Panther went all "The living is not done with you yet."


Really need to watch this movie again.
 
FlutterPuffs said:
He wasn't, it was Baron Zemo who blew up the building.

Also I don't think it was the Berlin special forces, wasn't it a SHIELD/UN based special ops unit that was ordered to kill him on the spot?
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I know that, but in a movie where the heroes are questioned about being so gun ho, nobody stopped to think about the fact that he couldn't have possibly done what he was being accused of.
Boss Doggie said:
but this movie didn't have the quipping Avenger films have
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Still a a lot of quips all of the time, I didn't compared them to avengers either so.
 
Famassu said:
There wouldn't be a Captain America: Civil War movie without Zemo. -_-; His machinations is what pushes the situation over a line that it can't go back from. Avengers appearing when a huge threat like Loki & his alien army or Ultron shows up to destroy the world had some unfortunate casualties, but ultimately most people felt like the Avengers were there to save the world & did their best to save as many people as possible. The incident at the beginning of Civil War showed them getting a bit sloppy, which lead to innocent people dying and pushed the anti-superheroes thing over the edge.
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To me the screw up in Age of Ultron
Tony invents a robot that almost destroys the world
Was enough to get the ball rolling. Have The avengers break up in act 1 over the law. Act 2 cap and his own team of avengers save people illegally Act 3 iron man and his team are sent to arrest team CAP. That seemed more then enough to me
 
rouken said:
I don't understand why somebody always needs to die. What's the point of that in this movie? They're all fighting for what they believe in but that doesn't mean they want to kill each other.

The only point in the movie where that's true was when Tony was just angry as fuck at Bucky for killing his parents. They came close to killing each other but by the end they both realized they're better people than that and admit to their own mistakes.

The point of the movie is not to exterminate the Avengers but to break them. Which what happened at the end.
Click to expand...
Yes, the fact that some people only see a death has the ultimate stakes is kind of disappointing

But a death is final. And it's heavy. But a character death suddenly overshadows any other possible consequence, both in the movie and in the minds of the audience. But I'd say for long form storytelling, there are stakes more gripping and effective than death, because if everyone stay alive, they have to live with the consequences of their actions, good or bad, wrong or right. We get to see how effects of what happens changes them, their dynamic with others, etc. in movies to come.
 
Sam and Bucky's bro moments were just about the best thing in any super hero film ever.

That VW Beetle

More_Badass said:
Yes, the fact that some people only see a death has the ultimate stakes is kind of disappointing

But a death is final. And it's heavy. But a character death suddenly overshadows any of other possible consequence, both in the movie and in the minds of the audience. But I'd say for long form storytelling, there are stakes more gripping and effective than death, because if everyone stay alive, they have to live with the consequences of their actions, good or bad, wrong or right. We get to see how effects of what happens changes them, their dynamic with others, etc. in movies to come.
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I fully agree. To use a Game of Thrones analogy (spoilers for all books):
Theon has a much more interesting story than Robb.
 
I loved it and tom holland as spiderman? I am very happy to see him in the MCU and giving justice on what everyone likes about spidey. But also Black Panther was no joke messing around he is king and it shows.

Russo brothers crafted a awesome movie and there are some fantastic fights!
 
Houndi101 said:
They are both competing for Caps heart, they are bitter rivals!
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!!!! the real civil war???

:>

nawwww they are good bros, they know sharin is carin~

------

okay, other bits that i like, now that ive sort of digest it better:
  • black widow kicking butts in the first fighting sequence. she was super bad ass amg *____*
  • spidey's humour (specially during action) is just so-so-so-very-spidey *_____*
  • ant-man! omg. i felt like a kid again when he got supersized *_____* and he is so adorkable, his lines and the way he was so openly starry eyed at captain and everything and how self-deprecating he was too *_____* (i know you have a lot of super friends, but gee thanks for picking me for your team cap + when ironman was like who r u and he was all :< COME ON)
  • also zemo was really easy to relate to. great delivery by the actor *_____*
  • black panther was sleek and real kick ass! *_____*
  • and i like the pacing throughout the movie, the beginning was a bit slower paced yes but it was a necessary build up, i think? idk. it worked for me :>

the stuffs that im still not so sure about:
  • wanda and vision. mostly wanda. she's nerfed a lot for mcu, feels like it? they mostly treat her like petulant teenage girl with power tantrum issues?
  • tony seems high-strung from the get go :< this tony feels a bit off to me. he's usually not so .... frazzled. i got that there are issues with pepper, but it just came out of nowhere and the movie began with him already so touchy...

    there's a few other stuffs i think but i cant remember them at the moment...



but overall, i really liked it :>

the finale with tony learning that it was bucky who killed his parents was really executed well. i empathized with all parties involved. very complicated perspectives of multiple characters in that finale (cap, bucky, tony, black panther, zemo) and everyone really delivered

*_____*
 
More_Badass said:
Yes, the fact that some people only see a death has the ultimate stakes is kind of disappointing

But a death is final. And it's heavy. But a character death suddenly overshadows any other possible consequence, both in the movie and in the minds of the audience. But I'd say for long form storytelling, there are stakes more gripping and effective than death, because if everyone stay alive, they have to live with the consequences of their actions, good or bad, wrong or right. We get to see how effects of what happens changes them, their dynamic with others, etc. in movies to come.
Click to expand...

I think the biggest "stake" in this entire movie indeed isn't death. The biggest stake and the one I imagine the audience has the most investment in isn't the characters "surviving" but whether or not they can end up salvaging an increasingly crumbling relationship. We've known these characters for almost 10 years now and the continuing downtrend since it's apex results in an investment that the movies have managed to earn. So when Tony shows up to get shit thrown his way by his incarcerated former team mates, or Steve abandons his shield after realizing he can't hold onto it anymore in good conscience, the lingering effects of that hold more weight than any death imaginable, because in the words of Black Panther, "the living isn't done with you". Would it matter more if these characters died as opposed to the actual knowledge that Tony, Cap, Bucky and Vision almost managed to kill their comrades?

Russos describing the movie as a psychological thriller feels somewhat appropriate in the end. A death in the family at the hands of one of their own would pretty much be a point of no redemption and I'm thankful that this movie isn't dark or dreary enough to go down that road.
 
Zemo might just be my favorite marvel villain, just a human dealing with human tragedy in a world that is so far beyond his power or control, they got an amazing actor who just nailed that final scene in the snow too.

He even says at the start that he wants to achieve his goals without bloodshed but without the hydra agents cooperation it isn't possible, I'm not saying what he did was right but at least his motivations and actions were clearly linked and understandable.
 
If any characters are killed in IW, they'll be brought back with the gauntlet or even Doctor Strange somehow (maybe he'll pluck alternate universe versions so they can get new actors).

There will be some deaths but Feige said his goal is to have different Avengers in each movie after A3. Each film a different dynamic, it's pretty much what they've been working towards. Don't expect them to kill off characters because you're bored of them. I want different members in each movie. Also, it's pretty mind blowing they'll have the option to do that. My inner child is still pinching himself.
 
Kaneda Shotaro said:
If any characters are killed in IW, they'll be brought back with the gauntlet or even Doctor Strange somehow (maybe he'll pluck alternate universe versions so they can get new actors).

There will be some deaths but Feige said his goal is to have different Avengers in each movie after A3. Each film a different dynamic, it's pretty much what they've been working towards. Don't expect them to kill off characters because you're bored of them. I want different members in each movie. Also, it's pretty mind blowing they'll have the option to do that. My inner child is still pinching himself.
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true.
The fact that any side movie (like Ant-Man) can have some actual Avengers cameo is pretty neat, as those 'legitimize' the installment.
I'd love for the Netflix shows to have some actual crossover cameos some day, not just references.
 
Lemonheap said:
I'm so annoyed that
nobody major died. They would have pulled it off so awesomely if there were at least some major stakes for the Civil War. I was so ready for Tony or Cap to bite it in a 'shock' ending, but no. Everyone got out of prison and most of them were totally fine. Wanted some sort of closure or a raging general Ross but that didn't happen.


Not a great ending.
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I agreed with you with one of the Main character should have died. <Was expecting Cap>
Thing is, this characters are needed for the Infinity war, that's why I kinda understand their decision.
 
It's kind of interesting how Cap, in both The Winter Soldier and Avengers 2, had pivotal moments where he would criticize his co-workers for keeping secrets from him.

This movie is a master of hindsight.
 
Lemonheap said:
I'm so annoyed that
nobody major died. They would have pulled it off so awesomely if there were at least some major stakes for the Civil War. I was so ready for Tony or Cap to bite it in a 'shock' ending, but no. Everyone got out of prison and most of them were totally fine. Wanted some sort of closure or a raging general Ross but that didn't happen.


Not a great ending.
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Not everything needs to be game of thrones. You can have stakes, drama, and emotional impact without killing off characters.

EDIT: What the hell? This is the spoiler thread, get those bars outta here.
 
NotLiquid said:
It's kind of interesting how Cap, in both The Winter Soldier and Avengers 2, had pivotal moments where he would criticize his co-workers for keeping secrets from him.

This movie is a master of hindsight.
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Steve Roger is such a hypocrite. You can't blame Stark for being pissed here.

Stark hides a secret involving a project he made with good intention. And Steve criticised him. While Steve himself hides a secret with a selfish reason: to protect Bucky, by not letting him know that Bucky killed his parents.
 
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