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Captain America: Civil War SPOILER Thread - #TeamThanos

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Aske said:
Now you're just being silly.
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HOW is that "being silly"?! Several members of the Avengers were deeply intwined in the events that allowed the invasion to happen. Without Hawkeye's help who knows if it would have happened at all. Yes they also fought it off, but there are a lot of questions that it would be perfectly reasonable to want answers to.

You know what would help provide those answers? OVERSIGHT.

Aske said:
I'm sorry, I thought I did. To rephrase: Ultron was responsible for the casualties in Sokovia, not the Avengers; and if anyone should be held accountable for Ultron it's Tony, not the Avengers as an organization.
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Tony AND Banner made Ultron, from a device that the Avengers attained without any permission in Sokovia (while KILLING people), they did it in Avengers HQ using Avengers equipment, and Ultra's minions were based on Avengers tech. The Avengers are absolutely responsible for Ultron. Tony ADMITS this.

And Wanda was WORKING for Ultron. She HELPED him.

You know what might have stopped all of this from happening? Some OVERSIGHT.
 
olympia said:
i thought it was pretty innocuous when he kept her on the compound, but making vision her keeper and chaperone was a pretty sad take on their relationship
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In reality though, anyone else making her stay on the compound would've been pushed aside like a fly by Wanda. Vision is the only one who has a chance. Or so they thought.
 
jmood88 said:
Steve seemed to come off as more of a brat than Tony. Tony was just trying his best to keep everyone together while Steve was like, "fuck that, I'm doing my own thing".
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"Doing my own thing" as in saving his best friend and not wanting his team to be prisoners of the UN.
 
neorej said:
In reality though, anyone else making her stay on the compound would've been pushed aside like a fly by Wanda. Vision is the only one who has a chance. Or so they thought.
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lol yeah. the scene when she pushed vision through the floor was pretty brutal and shocking in contrast to the affectionate nature of their relationship.

i think they put him in charge of her because he truly cared about her as well. poor vision :(

WaterAstro said:
"Doing my own thing" as in saving his best friend and not wanting his team to be prisoners of the UN.
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yeah when an international government agency that was already under the jurisdiction of an international panel turns out to be a infiltrated by hydra on a massive scale, any move made by the government to leash the avengers seems hella sus
 
Daft Punk said:
Just got out. Holy shit that movie was amazing. However, I'm not liking how they made Tony look like a fucking spoiled brat at the end. "That shield's not yours!" Fuck that man. I wanted to see Cap get his ass beat and he did up until that part. Yes I'm salty.
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I thought that's a nice touch. I've seen people asking for gifts they've given to their friends and SO back when they are on the verge of breaking up. Humans are petty like that. But at the same time, it's human and something you wouldn't do unless you're really really hurt and feel betrayed, which was what Tony felt.

olympia said:
lol yeah. the scene when she pushed vision through the floor was pretty brutal and shocking in contrast to the affectionate nature of their relationship.

i think they put him in charge of her because he truly cared about her as well. poor vision :(
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Someone on another forum mentions how Vision's mind gem turns red when Wanda did this. I wonder if she can control the gem eventually. She might be able to stand up against Thanos if that's the case.
 
olympia said:
lol yeah. the scene when she pushed vision through the floor was pretty brutal and shocking in contrast to the affectionate nature of their relationship.

i think they put him in charge of her because he truly cared about her as well. poor vision :(
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Yeah. The film sets up that Vision lacks the social grace to express himself correctly. So it is tragic in that way, because you really do believe he cares about her and is doing what he logically thinks is best for her safety.

But Tony was totally justified in asking Vision to do that.
 
Matt said:
HOW is that "being silly"?! Several members of the Avengers were deeply intwined in the events that allowed the invasion to happen. Without Hawkeye's help who knows if it would have happened at all. Yes they also fought it off, but there are a lot of questions that it would be perfectly reasonable to want answers to.

You know what would help provide those answers? OVERSIGHT.

Tony AND Banner made Ultron, from a device that the Avengers attained without any permission in Sokovia (while KILLING people), they did it in Avengers HQ using Avengers equipment, and Ultra's minions were based on Avengers tech. The Avengers are absolutely responsible for Ultron. Tony ADMITS this.

You know what might have stopped this from happening? Some OVERSIGHT.
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I'm not sure how "allowed the invasion to happen" works out when Thanos would've probably destroyed Earth eventually if Hydra didn't find the tesseract to begin with.

And Tony got mind controlled. Also, permission from Hydra to take their stuff? uh
 
WaterAstro said:
I'm not sure how "allowed the invasion to happen" works out when Thanos would've probably destroyed Earth eventually if Hydra didn't find the tesseract to begin with.

And Tony got mind controlled. Also, permission from Hydra to take their stuff? uh
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"What the fuck is a Thanos" says everyone on the MCU Earth.

You're using the fact that you watched the movie to inform your thinking. I'm talking about what the people in the movie would be thinking.
 
Matt said:
You know what might have stopped all of this from happening? Some OVERSIGHT.
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Some OVERSIGHT with the Avengers would have done it. e.g. Getting Cap's opinion and a consensus with the team.

Ultron was all on Stark. He went rogue, and his guilt wants to shackle the Avengers.
 
olympia said:
lol yeah. the scene when she pushed vision through the floor was pretty brutal and shocking in contrast to the affectionate nature of their relationship.

i think they put him in charge of her because he truly cared about her as well. poor vision :(



yeah when an international government agency that was already under the jurisdiction of an international panel turns out to be a infiltrated by hydra on a massive scale, any move made by the government to leash the avengers seems hella sus
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Part of me thinks he also get brutalized for fucking up that goulash.
 
Alienous said:
Yeah. The film sets up that Vision lacks the social grace to express himself correctly. So it is tragic in that way, because you really do believe he cares about her and is doing what he logically thinks is best for her safety.

But Tony was totally justified in asking Vision to do that.
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agreed. this film really does expertly balance the characters motivations with significant grace. i think that's its best trait. other than the badass airport scene.
 
SPE said:
Some OVERSIGHT with the Avengers would have done it. e.g. Getting Cap's opinion and a consensus with the team.

Ultron was all on Stark. He went rogue, and his guilt wants to shackle the Avengers.
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Again, he did it with Banner. And then he did it AGAIN, also with Banner, and Thor and Hawkeye helping out. Luckily that time he made Vision.

So, it was Tony not following the team rules that created the problem? Oh wait, there are no team rules. You know who could make some team rules? The UN.
 
Sblargh said:
She was trapped for days under a bed staring at the stark bomb that killed her parents. I am pretty sure she also kind of doesn't like him.
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Yeah I am not dismissing her motives, but ultimately her actions led to Ultron which most people seem to easily forget and just pin it all on Stark. It was until she realised what Ultron was up to, that she decided against doing his bidding. But all given, her action also did lead to The Vision so there is a good in all the bad, however her being kept under house arrest (while wrong) is understandable, considering what happened in Lagos. She is the weirdo of the group, the one people don't quite understand yet
 
Matt said:
"What the fuck is a Thanos" says everyone on the MCU Earth.

You're using the fact that you watched the movie to inform your thinking. I'm talking about what the people in the movie would be thinking.
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Thanos is the guy who invaded New York. They don't know his name, but they do know there's a powerful force out there that's going to come to Earth.

Maybe you missed Avengers 1? Avengers 2? Thor 2?

Heck, Thor straight up says it before he leaves.
 
Matt said:
Again, he did it with Banner. And then he did it AGAIN, also with Banner, and Thor and Hawkeye helping out. Luckily that time he made Vision.

So, it was Tony not following the team rules that created the problem? Oh wait, there are no team rules. You know who could make some team rules? The UN.
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You mean The Hydra.
 
WaterAstro said:
Thanos is the guy who invaded New York. They don't know his name, but they do know there's a powerful force out there that's going to come to Earth.

Maybe you missed Avengers 1? Avengers 2? Thor 2?

Heck, Thor straight up says it before he leaves.
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...what? No one on Earth knows about Thanos. No one really know anything about the invasion except what the Avengers and SHIELD told them. They certainly don't have any reason to think there is "a powerful force out there that's going to come to Earth."

That's the point, the Avengers are tied deeply into the invasion, and it would be reasonable for the citizens of earth to was an independent investigation into these events.

What does AoU or TDW have to do with the invasion of NY?
 
It is strange to see many people follow Captain Americas ideologies to the extreme considering the whole BlackLivesMatter issue with Police in the USA. Considering people want police to wear body cameras to give more transparency to how they work which is supposed to be oversight given to the public. Now I am not saying Captain is wrong but he was a bit too extreme with his anarchy styled we are above the law thingy.

I also think it is important to define what THE ACCORDS is because the movie doesn't exactly explain entirely what it is. Is it an issue of handing over the Avengers as private entity to the tool of 117 countries or is it creating a bank of accountability where the Avengers can answer to the 117 countries if they are found wanting of wrong doing, I don't think it is clearly defined
 
Disney is straight up showing off with their de-aging CG tech these days. It sucked in Tron, was excellent in Ant-Man and is more or less perfect here.

This time, they were like "Look, you can touch their face and everything!"
 
Matt said:
...what? No one on Earth knows about Thanos. No one really know anything about the invasion except what the Avengers and SHIELD told them. They certainly don't have any reason to think there is "a powerful force out there that's going to come to Earth."

That's the point, the Avengers are tied deeply into the invasion, and it would be reasonable for the citizens of earth to was an independent investigation into these events.

What does AoU or TDW have to do with the invasion of NY?
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Oh I dunno... Loki and his scepter has all to do with both movies.
And who the hell thinks that there are no more aliens out there to invade them after an alien invasion occurred. After the MANY alien invasions in the MCU.

Matt said:
No, I don't.
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Can't prove Hydra hasn't infiltrated the UN, can you.
 
civilstrife said:
Disney is straight up showing off with their de-aging CG tech these days. It sucked in Tron, was excellent in Ant-Man and is more or less perfect here.

This time, they were like "Look, you can touch their face and everything!"
Click to expand...

I know. I could practically see the drug addiction.
 
Tosyn_88 said:
It is strange to see many people follow Captain Americas ideologies to the extreme considering the whole BlackLivesMatter issue with Police in the USA. Considering people want police to wear body cameras to give more transparency to how they work which is supposed to be oversight given to the public. Now I am not saying Captain is wrong but he was a bit too extreme with his anarchy styled we are above the law thingy.

I also think it is important to define what THE ACCORDS is because the movie doesn't exactly explain entirely what it is. Is it an issue of handing over the Avengers as private entity to the tool of 117 countries or is it creating a bank of accountability where the Avengers can answer to the 117 countries if they are found wanting of wrong doing, I don't think it is clearly defined
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IIRC the accords came down to regulation of the deployment of enhanced people. The UN would get to decide whether Enhanced People would get deployed and under which rules of engagement.

Ask the people of Srebenica how that worked out for them.
 
Tosyn_88 said:
Now I am not saying Captain is wrong but he was a bit too extreme with his anarchy styled we are above the law thingy.
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Apply Steve's reasoning and world views to the real world and only the most extreme Republican is going to agree. The kind that probably speculates about how Obama is a Muslim, trying to poison everyone with flu shots.
Vigilantism is an idea that only works in media, where you can pretend that the alternative is evil/incompetent, where the hero can beat up people without lasting damage and is written by the author to be in the right.

Imagine if Trump said that civilians should have a right to hunt down people they suspect as criminals or that they should be allowed to violently resist arrest, both without legal consequences.
 
WaterAstro said:
Oh I dunno... Loki and his scepter has all to do with both movies.
And who the hell thinks that there are no more aliens out there to invade them after an alien invasion occurred. After the MANY alien invasions in the MCU.



Can't prove Hydra hasn't infiltrated the UN, can you.
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I...don't know what you are arguing.

And Hydra doesn't exists anymore.
 
Tosyn_88 said:
I also think it is important to define what THE ACCORDS is because the movie doesn't exactly explain entirely what it is. Is it an issue of handing over the Avengers as private entity to the tool of 117 countries or is it creating a bank of accountability where the Avengers can answer to the 117 countries if they are found wanting of wrong doing, I don't think it is clearly defined
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Seemed defined enough - the Avengers would be put on a leash by the UN. They wouldn't be able to go anywhere without their authorization. Considering his previous handlers were literally Hydra, his motivation is understandable.
 
BronsonLee said:
Good lord man
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Brqc-DCCIAAzQGW.jpg
 
I loved that the movie kept the story personal and didn't end with an entire city/world needing to be saved. The genre has been feeling kind of stale because of the need to stop a cataclysmic event at the end of the majority of them.
 
Matt said:
OK, the evidence of what? What are you talking about?
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THERE WAS AN ALIEN INVASION IN AVENGERS 1 and THOR 2 and you can even count THOR 1. Heck I would even count Ultron as an alien since he came from the stone that wasn't originally from Earth.

If you're so in love with the UN. If a hypothetical Trump gets elected in the MCU, you want him being in part of control and telling what the Avengers should be doing?

Did you miss the part when General Ross said "Fuck you stark and ur Zemo shit getting Super Soldiers, just kill Bucky and Cap!". UN is SHIT!
 
I wonder if Cap had decided to kill/capture Bucky at the end of Winter Soldier would people still have died in the explosion caused to lure bucky out of hiding?
 
WaterAstro said:
THERE WAS AN ALIEN INVASION IN AVENGERS 1 and THOR 2 and you can even count THOR 1. Heck I would even count Ultron as an alien since he came from the stone that wasn't originally from Earth.

If you're so in love with the UN. If a hypothetical Trump gets elected in the MCU, you want him being in part of control and telling what the Avengers should be doing?

Did you miss the part when General Ross said "Fuck you stark and ur Zemo shit getting Super Soldiers, just kill Bucky and Cap!". UN is SHIT!
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...

There was an alien invasion, an alien invasion that members of the Avengers helped to initiate. They then defeated it. That was good. But, if I lived in that world, I would obviously want that event investigated. And I would want a body other than the Avengers doing the investigating.

I'm not "in love with the UN." I recognize it as the basis for organized worldwide inter-nation cooperation and diplomacy. I also recognize that, in the MCU, 117 nations got together and said they want the Avengers to operate under the UN, and if they don't agree, that their actions will not be legal in those countries.

For my part, I agree with their reasoning, and find the idea of a group like the Avengers operating on their own and with no actual authority or oversight to be very disturbing.

That's what I think.

I also think, perhaps, you could calm down a bit.
 
blankempathy said:
I wonder if Cap had decided to kill/capture Bucky at the end of Winter Soldier would people still have died in the explosion caused to lure bucky out of hiding?
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I agree that Cap making a decision to let a mass murder just walk free was a bad one, and not one he had the right to make.
 
Matt said:
I agree that Cap making a decision to let a mass murder just walk free was a bad one, and not one he had the right to make.
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What. He didn't make that decision. He was going after him at the end of Winter Soldier, but they could never track him down. He was in hiding. Cap didn't decide to "let him go free", he just didn't want to kill a guy who he knew was clearly not himself. It's hard to win a fight when one side is trying to kill you but you don't want to kill them. So he took the L, hoping it would make Bucky snap out of it.

Sick and tired of #TeamIron fanboys trying to slander Steve Rogers, just to deflect away from the incompetence of Tony Stark. :)
 
duckroll said:
What. He didn't make that decision. He was going after him at the end of Winter Soldier, but they could never track him down. He was in hiding. Cap didn't decide to "let him go free", he just didn't want to kill a guy who he knew was clearly not himself. It's hard to win a fight when one side is trying to kill you but you don't want to kill them. So he took the L, hoping it would make Bucky snap out of it.
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Right, I had a brain hiccup. You are correct.
 
Matt said:
...

There was an alien invasion, an alien invasion that members of the Avengers helped to initiate. They then defeated it. That was good. But, if I lived in that world, I would obviously want that event investigated. And I would want a body other than the Avengers doing the investigating.

I'm not "in love with the UN." I recognize it as the basis for organized worldwide inter-nation cooperation and diplomacy. I also recognize that, in the MCU, 117 nations got together and said they want the Avengers to operate under the UN, and if they don't agree, that their actions will not be legal in those countries.

For my part, I agree with their reasoning, and find the idea of a group like the Avengers operating on their own and with no actual authority or oversight to be very disturbing.

That's what I think.

I also think, perhaps, you could calm down a bit.
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Avengers helped initiate the invasion whaaaaa? Maybe you want to take a step back and actually think about it.

Who had the teserract at the start? SHIELD
Who opened the portal for Loki? SHIELD
Who gave Loki the power to let in the Chitauri invasion? Thanos

Yeah, I don't see how Avengers were the one who started anything other than Thor throwing Loki into space.

Also, did you forget what happened if the Avengers wasn't there to defend NY? USA nukes the whole place because MURICA. No one but idiots would trust governments like that.
 
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