You can say that again lol... This thread + the one about CoD being 720p on the XBO... my god, console war hype is delivering
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CBOAT: ESRAM handicap for now, but will get better
- Thread starter nhlducks35
- Start date
You can say that again lol... This thread + the one about CoD being 720p on the XBO... my god, console war hype is delivering
What? No. The opposite. The GPU is better for the PS4 and the ESRAM is still causing problems.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Thing is, the processing complexity will always get greater and greater, and resolution and framerate are relative to that complexity (among other things). You could probably make a 3D 1080p@60fps game on Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3. The question is; at what cost? There's really no hardware feature or magical ceiling that will unlock or guaranty these things. They're the end result of everything you've got, or a target you wish to hit that shapes the things you're building.
With the exception of a theoretical future where we've broken some technological barrier and processing costs are borderline negligible at extreme resolutions and framerates, that's just a reality of modern hardware, including consoles. I'm not in the least bit surprised to see Xbox One titles apparently hitting 720p and 900p instead of 1080p. And I have no doubt that, eventually, there will be extremely detailed PlayStation 4 titles that too are not running at a native 1920x1080. Not unless that resolution is something Sony absolutely demand no matter the cost to other areas of the game. 1280x720 PlayStation 4 titles wouldn't surprise me in the least. As the generation goes on and games get more impressive, I expect it.
Framerate, on the other hand, is a little more difficult because it's pretty clear a lot of developers and games don't care about 60fps. For some genres 30fps is fine. In a perfect world it would all be 60fps because damn that low latency and smooth performance feels good. But games have been running sub 60fps for so long now that most people are desensitised, and titles cropping up on both Xbox One and PlayStation 4 prove this. I could see more developers making cuts to asset/shader quality to hit 1080p over 720p than doing the same to hit 60fps over 30fps.
End of the day, if you're a massive stickler for high resolution and high framerate, you need to jump into the world of PCs. Simply because with PCs the processing ceiling is whatever you make it. If you've got the dosh to throw around, you can raise that ceiling high to get your high framerates and resolutions. You're given the option to do so. And you don't have any options on consoles, where options come down to developers instead.
For the first time in a long time, I'm having fun on NeoGAF.
Keep up the good work m0dus. Friend Cboat, may your butt shine eternal. It's good to be excited for next gen again
The ESRAM is an Xbone issue, and nothing to do with the PS4.
Double pfft. Who thinks anyone at Microsoft needs a casual day to wear jeans?
Project Alice
Banned
It's complicated...and dangerous to answer unless you're an insider. For right now, suffice it to say that PS4 is ahead in development and has a stronger box. How much, stronger remains in flux depending on developer and the maturity of development tools.
I see, thank you guys. I guess it's back to waiting on DigitalFoundry.
What I'm curious about is that the differences seem much more significant than previous gens. So will devs trying to go for parity look silly this time around?
Nightengale
Member
RAM has no impact on the difference in GPU power.
Even assuming Ps4 had only 4gb ram or if Xbox also had Gddr5, Ps4 still have a stronger GPU.
la flama blanca
Banned
Thuway!!!!!
At least he'll be in the hospital when he finds out he's banned.
At least he'll be in the hospital when he finds out he's banned.
eddfromtheriver
Banned
Indeed.
BloodMoney
Banned
between this thread and the R9 290 thread... pretty good night on GAF.
bedtime.
bedtime.
GodfatherX
Member
i feel like i missed something, I dont remember any crazyness the past couple of days, granted i just glanced at GAF a few times in that period
ConteZero76
Member
Well, Microsoft could dish out XBox One+ (or something along that line) with more GPU cores and GDDR5, and it could be XBox One backward compatible.
Even "One+" games could run with low resolution/details on One "classic".
Point is : are they ready to spend A LOT of money to continue their console business ?
Even "One+" games could run with low resolution/details on One "classic".
Point is : are they ready to spend A LOT of money to continue their console business ?
What devs are forcing parity? All signs so far point to the PS4 release of multiplats sticking to 1080p and devs not downgrading it to force parity.
It's interesting because I guess you could say I was skeptical of the supposed 'difference in power' between the Xbone and the PS4, but after reading up on this stuff, and if the rumors turn out to be true, then it definitely seems to be coming a reality. Not really a good reality, though, tbh. Just makes it harder for devs with multiplat games to get parity.
CBOAT attacking Albert, CBOAT attacking this guy... it really is wild at Xbox headquarters right now
Obligatory:
Sword Of Doom
Member
That's the problem though isn't it? $$$$$$
Stripper13
Member
Probably the most positive and promising news to have come from this whole XB1 mess. Which is ironic, that the insider leaking the terrible stuff (that was going to come out at some stage anyway) - is also the person giving the most honest and reassuring response to date on the problems XB1 is having... as opposed to Penello/Nelson non-answers and PR dribble.
That said, I have zero interest in the console for the forseeable future. I'll wait to see what the next Halo is shaping up like before I even look at it again - and it'll need to be cheaper and/or kinectless before I put down cash. It's also a little irritating to know that MS' approach to hardware could potentially hold PS4 back moving forward. There's a very real possibility that games will be made around the XB1 hardware and then up-rezzed and made a little prettier for PS4. It annoyed me when it was happening with PC ports for so long, and it'll annoy me if the PS4's extra power (at least for multiplats) is for (admittedly very nice) things like resolution bumps or FPS stability. First party will bring it home though I'm sure.
That said, I have zero interest in the console for the forseeable future. I'll wait to see what the next Halo is shaping up like before I even look at it again - and it'll need to be cheaper and/or kinectless before I put down cash. It's also a little irritating to know that MS' approach to hardware could potentially hold PS4 back moving forward. There's a very real possibility that games will be made around the XB1 hardware and then up-rezzed and made a little prettier for PS4. It annoyed me when it was happening with PC ports for so long, and it'll annoy me if the PS4's extra power (at least for multiplats) is for (admittedly very nice) things like resolution bumps or FPS stability. First party will bring it home though I'm sure.
I'm referring to more than the resolution though. Won't other things like lighting, texture detail and such be better too?
Sword Of Doom
Member
Apparently they're not going for the level of parity we suspected. If COD, the flagship XB1 3rd party franchise is in fact 720/60 XB1 and 1080/60 PS4 then I'd doubt other developers would go for parity
boredandlazy
Member
I know you were joking, but you're aiming for the wrong guy in regards to drive-by posts against XBox. I generally stay out of most XBox threads because they don't interest me.
If you're serious, then you have obviously missed the COD on Xbone is 720p thread yesterday. It got to 125 pages and nearly 850,000 views in less than a day.
eddfromtheriver
Banned
Why people take Mr. looney buns post as a positive is lost on me, he still says that it is going to be a 720/900p future for the most part for XB1... i fail to see the silver lining...
Sword Of Doom
Member
yesterday was simply EPIC
This is exactly what confused me and promoted my previous post further up the page.
- They can overclock the eSRAM, DDR3 !!!. Who knows what they are brewing
- Magical cloud stuff is still being talked on.
People just reading the thread title, id assume.
Nightengale
Member
Are they going to also effectively piss off their early adopters?
I was a big supporter of Windows Phone. I really wanted that platform to succeed despite the inferior ecosystem, but when they made WP7 obsolete with their transition to 8, I gave up.
I desperately did not want to believe those prelaunch rumours that MS would kill support for old hardware altogether. The OS was still rather new, and if it was that major, I'd thought they'd inform consumers earlier, even if that meant losing some sales.
But they didn't. And love was over.
Kinda glad too, to be honest. WP8 imo killed a lot of the design elegance of the old design by ceding control of the live tiles arrangements and size to the front screen. The old asymmetrical design was the best.
Sword Of Doom
Member
so you're telling me there's a chance.gif
Much better than I could ever say.
And with a fixed/closed system consoles have both a blessing and a curse. Their programming can be fine tuned or exploited to produce things later in a cycle that were only dreams in the beginning. This all happens without needing to invest in upgrades to hardware. However, on the PC side the ceiling can keep being raised at the cost of newer hardware.
I won't be surprised to see frame rates and resolutions all over the place as this cycle does on. But I feel the minimum should be 720p/30. As time goes on some tech and design choices will allow for 1080p/60 while others will cram every bit of juice and be proud of 720p/30.
Sword Of Doom
Member
They'll be fine. It's not the end of the world. It's a long generation
Whipped Spartan
Member
Good post eat children! This 1080p conversation is so played out. I am getting both systems And I don't fool myself into thinking either will be locked 1080 & 60 all the time.
Fess
Member
That would be awful unless early adopters get the One+ for free. I think they're stuck with what they got right now. And I honestly don't think it'll be a problem with lower res as long as the framerate is good. It does put WiiU in a new light though with all the talk about WiiU not being next gen because N went with 720p60fps.
bigboss370
Member
right. x1 owners really only have exclusives to look forward to. i'm still flopping back and forth about getting one at launch, but as the days go by I feel less and less confident about plopping down $600+ (xbl+taxes) for the system.
any other insiders care to back up thuway's claim? mort? >_>
People across all platforms don't want to be held back. Getting a handle on the XBO to the point where it can spit out the same games as PS4/PC but at 720p or 900p, that's good news. CBOAT is basically confirming that things will get better and that resolution will be the only sacrifice for most games after launch.
famousmortimer
Banned
I think it's probably (sadly) that many folks can't see outside of like a two month window they live in. So since the xbox launch is going to have a lot of 720p that news of things getting slightly better to 900p is exciting.
Where, if you have followed game development at all, you know launch games are largely made on unfinished tools, rushed, and shitty.
The most powerful system has never been the easiest to develop for though. It will be interesting to see what impact that has on this generation.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Yep, but that's just a problem of...well, life and business a we know it. It's a problem in the console world to, because those $$$ dictate what kind of hardware Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo want to stick in their boxes and then what to charge for them. They're playing the same game.
But yeah, really my point is that framerate and resolution are not features that can be magically unlocked by hardware. They're the end result, relative to asset quality and engine optimisation within a restricted environment, and based on whatever intentions and targets the developer has.
On consoles the low price and ease of use for consumers is offset by having options removed and basically a "deal with it" approach. The games will run at whatever framerate and resolution developers want and can/will do within those hardware restrictions. That's the price you, and they pay. If you want flexibility and assurance from framerate and resolution, you need to start looking into other options, and at the moment the only option is to build your own system where it's you making the decisions as to what resolution/framerate you want and not someone else. Even if that does come at usually a pretty hefty cost.
LiLSnorpSnorp
Member
If the games look good, I will still purchase multiplats for X1. My friends are all going to have it, all about having fun at the end of the day. Disappointing if 720p will be the norm though. Personally, I believe it will be 900, with games here and there hitting 1080
bigboss370
Member
playing on PC alot...that only sacrifice is a pretty big deal, especially from 720 to 1080.
ConteZero76
Member
Do you remember XBox 360 and "component is enough for everyone" ? Have you some XBox 360 memory card lying around ?
I have zero faith in Microsoft being loyal to consumers.
They'll probably do something like that in the future: a "plus" version would be cheaper than a new platform, it would be backward compatible, it would play all "classic" games and they'll find a way to shove that down our throat (because, you know, at the end of the day we'll do everything to play good games).
I don't know, but that seems the "microsoft thing" to do.
Sure, but it's better than it could be, multiplats not bothering with dynamic lighting and other effects.
Pretty sure the OGXbox was easier to develop for than the PS2, though I can't speak for the GC.
IHaveCandy
Banned
Wasn't the original Xbox the easiest to develop for as well as the most powerful? That system had some stellar looking games on it like SC Chaos Theory.
sammyCYBORG
Member
720p-900p means I'll be waiting for a Kinectless SKU and a price drop after that, probably.
Shame.
Shame.
Yes, which is what is so heartbreaking about the direction MS has taken. I liked buying my OGXbox and 360 with the knowledge that it was the machine for games to show the highest performance, and with ease of development to ensure that happened.
Wow. Lots of stuff happened while I was away, huh.
Fellow Gaffer is ambushed! CBOAT casts smackdown! Fellow Gaffer faints! M0dus patrols! Thuway uses leak! A wild Bish appears! Bish uses Request for PM! It misses! Thuway escapes! Bish uses ban on thuway! It's super effective! EatChildren plants good post! It grows!
Nooooo! The excitement!
This thread is a rollercoaster of emotions.
To stay ever-so-slightly on topic: I absolutely agree with the red devourer of infantiles that of course the internal rendering rez and refresh rate will be pushed down as much as possible by devs. Currentgen is the best example for that. That's the way things go, sadly.
Fellow Gaffer is ambushed! CBOAT casts smackdown! Fellow Gaffer faints! M0dus patrols! Thuway uses leak! A wild Bish appears! Bish uses Request for PM! It misses! Thuway escapes! Bish uses ban on thuway! It's super effective! EatChildren plants good post! It grows!
Nooooo! The excitement!
This thread is a rollercoaster of emotions.
I hope it's only a temp ban. I mean, c'mon. THIEF. Who cares about that.
To stay ever-so-slightly on topic: I absolutely agree with the red devourer of infantiles that of course the internal rendering rez and refresh rate will be pushed down as much as possible by devs. Currentgen is the best example for that. That's the way things go, sadly.