Chobel
Member
Xbox was released after PS2.
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CBOAT: ESRAM handicap for now, but will get better
- Thread starter nhlducks35
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Xbox was released after PS2.
Yeah, I definitely remember stories about the PS2 being hard to develop for.
So everyone that bought a PS2 did so from Q4 2000 - Q3 2001?
NoirVisage
Banned
You both do understand that OG Xbox didn't launch alongside the ps2? Stop playing coy, you know what he meant.
They were still within the same console generation.
It's why MS could use a good kick in the teeth at least at the start of this generation. Seems to have worked nicely for Sony now that they've gotten their shit together for the PS4.
I think even Cerny alluded to as much in that presentation with the "time to triangle" thing.
...Judging by his post, it seems like he was referring to the gen as a whole. He even mentions "generation" in the sentence after.
famousmortimer
Banned
Ok...
The most powerful console that's actually relevant has never been the easiest to develop for.
I don't mean that as a slight on the OG xbox. I loved that thing. But it was 20 mil to 150mil. Third parties weren't really torn up over who the lead platform was.
The most powerful console that's actually relevant has never been the easiest to develop for.
I don't mean that as a slight on the OG xbox. I loved that thing. But it was 20 mil to 150mil. Third parties weren't really torn up over who the lead platform was.
I like when m0dus shows up. Makes the shit talk stop and the conversations start.
I agree with everyone that thinks settling for 900p at 500 dollars is a less than ideal thing. I'm still buying an Xbox One for Titanfall and exclusives, but with the decisions MS made, and Sony made, PS4 is my new main for multi-plats. 3 years of PS+ locked and loaded thanks to the current 10 dollar back sale.
I agree with everyone that thinks settling for 900p at 500 dollars is a less than ideal thing. I'm still buying an Xbox One for Titanfall and exclusives, but with the decisions MS made, and Sony made, PS4 is my new main for multi-plats. 3 years of PS+ locked and loaded thanks to the current 10 dollar back sale.
I remember reading stuff online back in 2002 or so about the PS2 being hard to develop for. I didn't fully believe it though -- especially since I was playing Gran Turimso 3 at the time (which blew me away).
Yes he did, and that was a very interesting presentation to watch.
I kinda regret not being in the tub for it now ;_;
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
Man, this thread is popping off outta nowhere. CBOAT, Matt, Thuway (RIP), and Mort all in the fray. And several mods as well, lol.
Hmmm, so at least we know some of the rules for posting rumors. That makes me feel better about seeing insider rumors on GAF, and explains why so many of them end up being on the money.
Hmmm, so at least we know some of the rules for posting rumors. That makes me feel better about seeing insider rumors on GAF, and explains why so many of them end up being on the money.
Chobel
Member
It was Q1 2000- Q4 2001.
By The time when Xbox was released PS2 had a bigger user base and more games. so it was easy to keep sales momentum.
EnVy_CaLiBeR
Member
"The games will be good though, and that's what matters."
Yes sir.
Yes sir.
NoirVisage
Banned
And? The Xbox was a wildcard, it came too late and had too little market share to effect the development landscape. Doesn't count in the same way.
The more CBOAT posts, the more I sense he's a pretty jaded individual..
Quick to sensationalise the big negatives, and get GAF all riled up, but then seems to calm down and be a little more sensible..
Mind you, I also don't see the 'positive' of his latest amazing revelation, he is still saying that 720/900 is the norm.. if the revelation is that tools are shitty at launch and will get better, well, colour me not so impressed..
Could also just be covering his ass in case some more 1080p games are announced..
Quick to sensationalise the big negatives, and get GAF all riled up, but then seems to calm down and be a little more sensible..
Mind you, I also don't see the 'positive' of his latest amazing revelation, he is still saying that 720/900 is the norm.. if the revelation is that tools are shitty at launch and will get better, well, colour me not so impressed..
Could also just be covering his ass in case some more 1080p games are announced..
NoirVisage
Banned
It's a shame you had to break that down, it was obvious.
I think it's pretty obvious that he meant within a gen; at least that's how his post came off.
Don't get why you are debating as if our points about the PS2 involved the actual success of the system(s) within the gen. It was solely about the powerful console being easier to develop for.
I don't think there will be a Kinectless SKU. They would have to completely redesign their APU and screw early adopters if they were to go that route. Best case scenario is that they drop the price to make the Kinect free and M$ eating that cost.
NoirVisage
Banned
Try reading his entire post. His last sentence puts everything in context, not my fault you jumped the gun trying to dispute his words that you let his point fly over your head.
Hydrargyrus
Member
Weaker and harder to develop for... Well, IMO that is not the same situation that PS3 and Cell.
Sony also mastered the hype and were coming off changing the total face of gaming with the ps1, so ms were well late to the party more expensive at least in the uk, it was there first machine and they were looked on as geeks and stuff it wasnt cool to want an xbox. I dont see how that has any likeness at all to the current up coming gen, and how in anyway that points to sonys ps4 not winning because its the most powerful.
At this point we would know. Only game that is native 1080p is FM5 and there is no other retail game with 1080p confirmed, only semis about literaly like one or two games and those games lately got leaks that they are in fact 720p
Few tech people already mentioned that 32MB is simply to small to hold framebuffer for most of next gen engines (which use deferred rendering). For tiled rendering 1080p would be ok, problem is everybody is changing their engines from tiled to deffered. Forza case might be just case of tiled engine since it uses static lighting (ibl).
When Forza will change their engine to deffered we will probably see FM6 as 900p game.
PhoenixFyre
Member
Unfortunately for Xbox One, the Playstation 4 will ripen and the games will get better with time and familiarity as well. While Xbox is struggling just to catch up to the PS4, the PS4 is going to continue advancing.
I'm still left with a few unanswered questions:
1. Was the eDRAM in the 360 hard programmed to limited functionality, or was it like the eSRAM in that developers had to decide themselves how to manage a higher speed memory pool? If the latter, why is eSRAM development so difficult. I realize its more difficult than the PS4, but my assumption is it would be comparable to developing for the 360 not developing for cell.
2. Which design choice drove the other. Was the relatively low TF GPU chosen because 32mb of eSRAM limits the benefits of more flops as a bandwidth bottleneck or was 32mb's of eSRAM chosen because they decided on a GPU that is shader unit limited. Would a 48mb eSRAM pool take up too much apu space? Would love to know what other eSRAM pool vs. GPU configurations were considered. I ask this because the size of the eSRAM pool, the amount of shaders, and the scaler all point to a designed "balance" of 720p or 900p that is upscaled.
1. Was the eDRAM in the 360 hard programmed to limited functionality, or was it like the eSRAM in that developers had to decide themselves how to manage a higher speed memory pool? If the latter, why is eSRAM development so difficult. I realize its more difficult than the PS4, but my assumption is it would be comparable to developing for the 360 not developing for cell.
2. Which design choice drove the other. Was the relatively low TF GPU chosen because 32mb of eSRAM limits the benefits of more flops as a bandwidth bottleneck or was 32mb's of eSRAM chosen because they decided on a GPU that is shader unit limited. Would a 48mb eSRAM pool take up too much apu space? Would love to know what other eSRAM pool vs. GPU configurations were considered. I ask this because the size of the eSRAM pool, the amount of shaders, and the scaler all point to a designed "balance" of 720p or 900p that is upscaled.
hooijdonk17
Member
Here's the major problem, Microsoft.
Back in 2005, I had gotten my first HDTV, it was a 32" 720p LCD and I was very, very eager to get an HD console to play eyecandy games on my new big screen, especially considering the lack of alternative HD entertainment content available. The Xbox 360 offered me exactly the kind of entertainment I required at the best value possible. My PC at the time had a 17" CRT monitor and my gaming was, generally, at 1024x768 and sub-console fidelity.
Come 2013, I just got my second HDTV, it's a 50" 1080p Plasma and I'm really not very enthusiastic about playing 720p games on it. That's not what I got it for, and it's too big for that kind of resolution to be enjoyable. To top it all, there are a ton of Full HD alternative entertainment sources available now, all of which are much cheaper than what you offer the Xbone at. I now also have a 900p PC monitor and my PC can handle image fidelity beyond what you propose with the Xbone.
Now, please come again and explain why I should buy your product?
You guys are crazy.
Back in 2005, I had gotten my first HDTV, it was a 32" 720p LCD and I was very, very eager to get an HD console to play eyecandy games on my new big screen, especially considering the lack of alternative HD entertainment content available. The Xbox 360 offered me exactly the kind of entertainment I required at the best value possible. My PC at the time had a 17" CRT monitor and my gaming was, generally, at 1024x768 and sub-console fidelity.
Come 2013, I just got my second HDTV, it's a 50" 1080p Plasma and I'm really not very enthusiastic about playing 720p games on it. That's not what I got it for, and it's too big for that kind of resolution to be enjoyable. To top it all, there are a ton of Full HD alternative entertainment sources available now, all of which are much cheaper than what you offer the Xbone at. I now also have a 900p PC monitor and my PC can handle image fidelity beyond what you propose with the Xbone.
Now, please come again and explain why I should buy your product?
You guys are crazy.
Chobel
Member
Really??! Anyone like playing 1080p is just showing off his epenis?
You don't have a problem playing 720-900p, good for you, but don't dismiss the opinions of people that likes playing in resolution higher than that, and more importantly don't make it like it's a wrong to play with higher resolution.
NBA 2K 14 is 1080p confirmed. Fifa 14 is confirmed 1080p 60 FPS as well.
DigitalDevilSummoner
zero cognitive reasoning abilities
Chobel
Member
Confirmed by the 2K team today to IGN directly. FIFA was confirmed 1080p at the beginning of this month.
funkystudent
Member
Pretty sure the EA sports games are confirmed 1080p but they look like they are just the 360/ps3 sku's + some slightly better cloth physics.
So does CoD.
ConteZero76
Member
I'm not so sure how good that game could possibly be when it was created by IW after the mass exodus of personnel (around 50 of their staff resigned after that debacle with the management). This is why quite a few people are excited for Titanfall as it's basically the good people from IW with more creative control restored to their development.
IW hasn't done a CoD since until this one with the others being taken care of by Treyarch.
I think Battlefield may clean its clock this time.
BigJonsson
Member
In CBOAT we trust
What are the highlights of this giant thread?
What are the highlights of this giant thread?
Identity protection.
In sales? Or just visuals? If sales, I hope you're right. Seems like a more ambitious title.
i have a question.. and sorry if it sounds rude.its not my intention. however, what did CBOT in the OP say that wasn't common sense and known to all of us by know ?
i did not find any new information about this tweet. more of a common sense post like most reg gaf members do.
am i missing something here ?
i did not find any new information about this tweet. more of a common sense post like most reg gaf members do.
am i missing something here ?
I hope the graphics translate to sales, as much as I loathe anything EA these days, CoD is in dire need of a wake-up call.
I'd argue that a lot of developers never really fully caught up. Multiplatform games were very close at the end of this generation but 360 still had the edge in many cases.
It was the incredibly talented Sony worldwide studios that were able to exploit the hardware properly. Cell had a lot of potential that was difficult to exploit but there's no such thing in Xbox One, however, making it seem like it won't really have anything to show us that exceeds what we see on PS4.
ThisWreckage
Banned
I've always preferred Sony's exclusives, but it seems like third party games are going to run better on the PS4 as well. This is just icing on the cake to me. It seems like Microsoft relinquished almost every single advantage they had from last generation. A comedy of errors.
So what a shitload of other people have been saying but NOW it's a fact that he says it?
It always was about the games, it always will be about the games.
sammyCYBORG
Member
It's (unfortunately) going to be a long generation again. I'm sure it will happen.
Not sure about sales, but I meant visually and possibly through gameplay. BTW, I was wrong on the number of people who left IW, it was only about 50 people, not 50%. So maybe IW's ability to maintain their level of CoD-ness wasn't badly affected.
SwiftDeath
Member
Cboats mentioned the esram diffuculties leading to 720p - 900p before and that is why everyone thought it was standard
This new post by him is merely further confirmation