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[Channel4] Jordan Peterson debate on the gender pay gap, campus protests and postmodernism

Jon Neu

Jon Neu

Banned
Lupingosei said:
Please don't call this left wing. I am left wing but I never used this. This is from the playbook of the new authoritarian left like the whole sex negative approach to everything. Old school leftists were pro sexual liberation and actually had fun.
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I'm a leftist too, but the reality is what it is.

The left has become the new bully, intolerant and regressive movement.
 
Kadayi

Kadayi

Banned
finowns said:
I thought the psychologist was a bit too hokey and unclear.
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Whats unclear? Newman's approach was feelings over facts. She wasn't interested in what Peterson had to say, she was solely interested in trying to force him to say anything that would align with and confirm her own narrative prejudices that could be seized on and used to point to him and say 'see see this man is as terrible as we thought!!'. Towards the end, she pretty much gives up and just accuses him of being a hollow provocateur who doesn't believe in his own ideas, which is an astounding accusation to make against an academic.

Of course, it made the Psychologist cringe, it's painful to watch Newman debase herself intellectually of her own accord, and to the detriment of feminism as a whole. If you are going to assume the mantle of representing, you need to be your best self and she was far from that.
 
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finowns

finowns

Member
Kadayi said:
Whats unclear? Newman's approach was feelings over facts. She wasn't interested in what Peterson had to say, she was solely interested in trying to force him to say anything that would align with and confirm her own narrative prejudices that could be seized on and used to point to him and say 'see see this man is as terrible as we thought!!'. Towards the end, she pretty much gives up and just accuses him of being a hollow provocateur who doesn't believe in his own ideas, which is an astounding accusation to make against an academic.

Of course, it made the Psychologist cringe, it's painful to watch Newman debase herself intellectually of her own accord, and to the detriment of feminism as a whole. If you are going to assume the mantle of representing, you need to be your best self and she was far from that.
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I vaguely recall ‘shadow self’ and some type of universal anger all women can tap into.
 
Kadayi

Kadayi

Banned
finowns said:
I vaguely recall ‘shadow self’ and some type of universal anger all women can tap into.
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It's a Jungian theory relating to repression that basically keeps people from acting in a constructive manner. There was scope for an actual exchange in the interview and it didn't happen.
 
cromofo

cromofo

Member
Lynd7 said:
This is the original video of Peterson talking about the interview, or at least another one that's covering the same bits.

Also a very good listen.

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That was a great listen. Minimal politics, mostly just profund talk on life. Really enjoyed it, especially the stories about his daughter and son.
 
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Kadayi

Kadayi

Banned
As an aside, I've been reading Peterson's book. Not that far into it as work has been pandemonium and my attention span on an evening isn't what it should be, however, I am finding it pretty interesting. The First Rule 'Stand up straight with your shoulders back' might seems like a bit of an odd one, but it does seem to have a general impact on mood. I used to do Tai Chi so I've learnt to maintain decent posture from that, but the slight differential in bringing the shoulders back (versus just letting them hang as in Tai Chi) causes you to raise your head up slightly (as if you were a surveying the horizon rather than what's immediately in front of you ) and that seems to alter mood if maintained (I do long walks at lunch). On the flipside, because you're walking with deliberation rather than falling into the next step, speed is an issue. However when you're feeling #1 who needs to rush ;)
 
SatansReverence

SatansReverence

Hipster Princess
Kadayi said:
As an aside, I've been reading Peterson's book. Not that far into it as work has been pandemonium and my attention span on an evening isn't what it should be, however, I am finding it pretty interesting. The First Rule 'Stand up straight with your shoulders back' might seems like a bit of an odd one, but it does seem to have a general impact on mood. I used to do Tai Chi so I've learnt to maintain decent posture from that, but the slight differential in bringing the shoulders back (versus just letting them hang as in Tai Chi) causes you to raise your head up slightly (as if you were a surveying the horizon rather than what's immediately in front of you ) and that seems to alter mood if maintained (I do long walks at lunch). On the flipside, because you're walking with deliberation rather than falling into the next step, speed is an issue. However when you're feeling #1 who needs to rush ;)
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I've heard about his book but have yet to read it but it isn't surprising that is one of the rules.

Not only does it make yourself feel more confident but it changes other peoples perception of you.
 
Kadayi

Kadayi

Banned
SatansReverence said:
Not only does it make yourself feel more confident but it changes other peoples perception of you.
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For sure. In that regard, he's not saying something entirely new. I've occasionally used power stance tactics in interviews/meetings to boost my confidence and other's confidence in me accordingly with good results. The world will very much meet what you project a lot of the time. It hadn't necessarily occurred to me to deploy it on a constant basis though, which is what he's effectively advocating as a means to create a positive feedback loop that perpetuates itself. He gets in deep about the now infamous lobster in that particular chapter.

Also should this not be the official Peterson theme tune?

 
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strange headache

strange headache

Banned
Peterson just posted this pretty insightful documentary about the state of the media on his channel:

I accidentally posted the same documentary. I cannot delete my post and have nothing smart to add so you can have this video instead:

 
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Kadayi

Kadayi

Banned
Slightly OT but I have a spare code for Petersons Self Authoring website if anyone is interested. They had a buy one get one free deal and I figured why not get a spare and treat someone.

https://www.selfauthoring.com



Be aware that this involves a hell of a lot of writing, so it's not for the faint of heart.

Edit: Since claimed :)
 
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strange headache

strange headache

Banned
Here's another fascinating university talk about compelled speech. Don't mind the hysterical crazies that are storming the stage for a short moment while protesting outside. Peterson has to say something worthwhile about that:

 
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TannerDemoz

TannerDemoz

Member
monegames said:
The sad thing is she isn't even a rookie. Shes been with Channel 4 since 2006 and hosting since 2011.
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She's a shit hot interviewer IMO, but Jordan had the upperhand here. Shit hot in the sense that she's pushing for him to say controversial stuff to get a decent headline out of it, but he keeps shooting her down and she is wayyyyy out of her comfort zone as a result. He handled it so well.
 
S

Subtle

Member
i personally disagree with nearly all of peterson's political positions. but here's a video essay describing how i feel about what the left can learn from him. thoughts?

 
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J

Jenenser

Member
some little offtopic addition for people who like to know what happens to the emotional left whenever they debate a different viewpoint and why it mostly ends in characterassasinations.



its not rational. great tedtalk.

sry for beeing OT, but i think it fits the context.
 
Knob Creek

Knob Creek

Banned
Subtle said:
i personally disagree with nearly all of peterson's political positions. but here's a video essay describing how i feel about what the left can learn from him. thoughts?

Click to expand...


It's funny the title uses "depressed", as poor Mr. Peterson appears to be brutally depressed himself. I suppose it isn't too surprising considering the extreme change in his life over the past year and a half or so, but man that guy looks and sounds absolutely miserable every where he goes.
 
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TrainedRage

TrainedRage

Banned
Knob Creek said:
It's funny the title uses "depressed", as poor Mr. Peterson appears to be brutally depressed himself. I suppose it isn't too surprising considering the extreme change in his life over the past year and a half or so, but man that guy looks and sounds absolutely miserable every where he goes.
Click to expand...
Getting called a Nazi bigot everyday by edgelord lefties would make me miserable too. But he is doing an extremely important and needed thing for many people. I would love to know specifically why people hate him so much?
 
Knob Creek

Knob Creek

Banned
TrainedRage said:
Getting called a Nazi bigot everyday by edgelord lefties would make me miserable too. But he is doing an extremely important and needed thing for many people. I would love to know specifically why people hate him so much?
Click to expand...

He's not doing anything important and his martyrdom complex for saying things that people have been saying for literally decades is silly. "When men were men" type shit has been going on forever. He's not saying anything new, he's not even saying it in a new way, but like the modern Left he decries despite obviously being very much a part of that (lulz at the idea that he's some conservative alt right dude, he's as liberal as you can possibly get: a dude who spent his entire adult life in academia in Canada), he employs stupid strawman arguments and martyrdom bullshit.

He's a wiener, and if you've ever watched his classroom videos, he's a pretty shitty speaker and actually not very good at getting his points across. Also hard to tell wtf he's actually teaching since it usually seems like he's just rambling and ranting about his personal views on stuff without giving any information or teaching.

That said, there's no reason why anyone should hate him or even be upset or bothered at anything he's saying. Although it is telling to see where he was a year ago to now and how he's gone from personal liberty to psychoanalyzing Disney movies and critiquing art for not having the "correct" ideologies in them. Oh, and his sudden fascination with the TRUTH in The Bible and putting videos up of him crying screams of desperately trying to fill a void he didn't realized he had.
 
Bolivar687

Bolivar687

Banned
Knob Creek said:
He's not doing anything important and his martyrdom complex for saying things that people have been saying for literally decades is silly. "When men were men" type shit has been going on forever. He's not saying anything new, he's not even saying it in a new way, but like the modern Left he decries despite obviously being very much a part of that (lulz at the idea that he's some conservative alt right dude, he's as liberal as you can possibly get: a dude who spent his entire adult life in academia in Canada), he employs stupid strawman arguments and martyrdom bullshit.

He's a wiener, and if you've ever watched his classroom videos, he's a pretty shitty speaker and actually not very good at getting his points across. Also hard to tell wtf he's actually teaching since it usually seems like he's just rambling and ranting about his personal views on stuff without giving any information or teaching.

That said, there's no reason why anyone should hate him or even be upset or bothered at anything he's saying. Although it is telling to see where he was a year ago to now and how he's gone from personal liberty to psychoanalyzing Disney movies and critiquing art for not having the "correct" ideologies in them. Oh, and his sudden fascination with the TRUTH in The Bible and putting videos up of him crying screams of desperately trying to fill a void he didn't realized he had.
Click to expand...

images
 
TrainedRage

TrainedRage

Banned
Knob Creek said:
He's not doing anything important and his martyrdom complex for saying things that people have been saying for literally decades is silly. "When men were men" type shit has been going on forever. He's not saying anything new, he's not even saying it in a new way, but like the modern Left he decries despite obviously being very much a part of that (lulz at the idea that he's some conservative alt right dude, he's as liberal as you can possibly get: a dude who spent his entire adult life in academia in Canada), he employs stupid strawman arguments and martyrdom bullshit.

He's a wiener, and if you've ever watched his classroom videos, he's a pretty shitty speaker and actually not very good at getting his points across. Also hard to tell wtf he's actually teaching since it usually seems like he's just rambling and ranting about his personal views on stuff without giving any information or teaching.

That said, there's no reason why anyone should hate him or even be upset or bothered at anything he's saying. Although it is telling to see where he was a year ago to now and how he's gone from personal liberty to psychoanalyzing Disney movies and critiquing art for not having the "correct" ideologies in them. Oh, and his sudden fascination with the TRUTH in The Bible and putting videos up of him crying screams of desperately trying to fill a void he didn't realized he had.
Click to expand...
This is some of the worst bait I have seen in a while... Spoken by someone who clearly has never seen more than 1 min clips of JP.
 
Bryank75

Bryank75

Banned
TrainedRage said:
This is some of the worst bait I have seen in a while... Spoken by someone who clearly has never seen more than 1 min clips of JP.
Click to expand...

Plus he seems so angry and outraged for over half his post and proceeds to say 'there's no reason anyone should hate him or even be upset or bothered at anything he's saying'
I think we can easily ignore any 'contribution' from someone that can checkmate themselves in a few sentences.

He seems really confused too, he mentions Peterson using 'strawmen', I've never seen this exhibited by him and it's far more typical of the extreme left and was on display in a big way by Cathy Newman.
 
jonnyp

jonnyp

Member
Subtle said:
i personally disagree with nearly all of peterson's political positions. but here's a video essay describing how i feel about what the left can learn from him. thoughts?

Click to expand...


What do you disagree with? I don't understand how anyone who call themselves liberal can disagree with his principles on freedom of speech and compelled speech or his views on the humanities in universities. His points are being proven again and again everytime he does a public talk and radical leftists try to silence him. Last at Queen's University.

Knob Creek said:
He's not doing anything important and his martyrdom complex for saying things that people have been saying for literally decades is silly. "When men were men" type shit has been going on forever. He's not saying anything new, he's not even saying it in a new way, but like the modern Left he decries despite obviously being very much a part of that (lulz at the idea that he's some conservative alt right dude, he's as liberal as you can possibly get: a dude who spent his entire adult life in academia in Canada), he employs stupid strawman arguments and martyrdom bullshit.

He's a wiener, and if you've ever watched his classroom videos, he's a pretty shitty speaker and actually not very good at getting his points across. Also hard to tell wtf he's actually teaching since it usually seems like he's just rambling and ranting about his personal views on stuff without giving any information or teaching.

That said, there's no reason why anyone should hate him or even be upset or bothered at anything he's saying. Although it is telling to see where he was a year ago to now and how he's gone from personal liberty to psychoanalyzing Disney movies and critiquing art for not having the "correct" ideologies in them. Oh, and his sudden fascination with the TRUTH in The Bible and putting videos up of him crying screams of desperately trying to fill a void he didn't realized he had.
Click to expand...

Are you really being serious?
 
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Knob Creek

Knob Creek

Banned
TrainedRage said:
This is some of the worst bait I have seen in a while... Spoken by someone who clearly has never seen more than 1 min clips of JP.
Click to expand...

You would be wrong, I've heard him speak for multiple hours at this point. He's not saying anything "important". Bitching about the left eating itself is not important work; most people do that. His views have since morphed to talking about masculinity and Disney movies deeply upsetting him because of "propaganda" that doesn't like up with his views on how masculinity should be depicted, going so far as to become an art critic and saying that art isn't art if it has an ideological message in it....you know, except when he LIKES the message in it, then it's good. Then he basically seemed to discover Ancient Astronaut theory and has been running with that for a while. And now he's unlocked the immutable real truths of The Bible pushing 60 and never having cared about The Bible before.

None of this is "important work". He's one of a billion dudes with a platform who is just ranting about shit that bugs him now. He's essentially a grumpy old man yelling at the clouds now that he's free of academia. Completely inoffensive, completely unimportant in the scheme of things. People thinking what he's doing is very important are just as weird as the people who think he's the most vile creature around right now.
 
TrainedRage

TrainedRage

Banned
Knob Creek said:
You would be wrong, I've heard him speak for multiple hours at this point. He's not saying anything "important". Bitching about the left eating itself is not important work; most people do that. His views have since morphed to talking about masculinity and Disney movies deeply upsetting him because of "propaganda" that doesn't like up with his views on how masculinity should be depicted, going so far as to become an art critic and saying that art isn't art if it has an ideological message in it....you know, except when he LIKES the message in it, then it's good. Then he basically seemed to discover Ancient Astronaut theory and has been running with that for a while. And now he's unlocked the immutable real truths of The Bible pushing 60 and never having cared about The Bible before.

None of this is "important work". He's one of a billion dudes with a platform who is just ranting about shit that bugs him now. He's essentially a grumpy old man yelling at the clouds now that he's free of academia. Completely inoffensive, completely unimportant in the scheme of things. People thinking what he's doing is very important are just as weird as the people who think he's the most vile creature around right now.
Click to expand...
Yeah you're right i'm sure there are a "billion other dudes" with #1 best selling books. But his books aren't even important right? His lectures aren't even enlightening at all. Like... I totally knew everything already. I mean he is just some random dude with a successful phd and mental health practice trying to help people. God that's not important at all, to anyone....ever.
 
Knob Creek

Knob Creek

Banned
If you're enlightened by a guy doing Jungian psychoanalysis on Frozen and talking about the left being shitheads to each other, more power to you. You can probably find 15 comedian podcasts saying the same things as him in a more engaging way without the martyr complex.
 
Bryank75

Bryank75

Banned
Knob Creek said:
If you're enlightened by a guy doing Jungian psychoanalysis on Frozen and talking about the left being shitheads to each other, more power to you. You can probably find 15 comedian podcasts saying the same things as him in a more engaging way without the martyr complex.
Click to expand...

He's not just a 'guy doing Jungian psychoanalysis ' , he is a tenured professor with 30 years experience. He was also previously a professor at Harvard... You on the otherhand are a nobody and it takes no talent or effort to say 'he's crap' which is basically all your posts have amounted to and referencing only one video and obviously downplaying the profundity of any of what he says.
Some people wish to learn and grow others simply delight in trying to undermine and devalue what others have done... you are the latter.
 
Knob Creek

Knob Creek

Banned
Bryank75 said:
He's not just a 'guy doing Jungian psychoanalysis ' , he is a tenured professor with 30 years experience. He was also previously a professor at Harvard... You on the otherhand are a nobody and it takes no talent or effort to say 'he's crap' which is basically all your posts have amounted to and referencing only one video and obviously downplaying the profundity of any of what he says.
Some people wish to learn and grow others simply delight in trying to undermine and devalue what others have done... you are the latter.
Click to expand...

I've listened to probably 10+ hours of him speaking. I agree with most of what he says. But it isn't some special, magical work because he's not saying anything unique at all. He's saying things a lot of people have been saying for a long time. The idea that he's become this lightning rod in a culture war is so absurd that it's genuinely baffling.
 
Greedings

Greedings

Member
Knob is correct in that Peterson isn't saying anything particularly new. The important point is that he is saying it, when a lot of people are too scared to in the current climate.
 
Bryank75

Bryank75

Banned
Knob Creek said:
I've listened to probably 10+ hours of him speaking. I agree with most of what he says. But it isn't some special, magical work because he's not saying anything unique at all. He's saying things a lot of people have been saying for a long time. The idea that he's become this lightning rod in a culture war is so absurd that it's genuinely baffling.
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Just a sign of the times I'm afraid, when so many have gone off the deep end...a voice of reason can be refreshing. Look at the division in society from all the 'progress' ... It is change for the sake ofchange right now and there is no deep thought into the far reaching effects.

Sorry if I seemed snappy previously ... I have kids sick atm and I'm really tired.
 
Papa

Papa

Banned
Knob Creek said:
You would be wrong, I've heard him speak for multiple hours at this point. He's not saying anything "important". Bitching about the left eating itself is not important work; most people do that. His views have since morphed to talking about masculinity and Disney movies deeply upsetting him because of "propaganda" that doesn't like up with his views on how masculinity should be depicted, going so far as to become an art critic and saying that art isn't art if it has an ideological message in it....you know, except when he LIKES the message in it, then it's good. Then he basically seemed to discover Ancient Astronaut theory and has been running with that for a while. And now he's unlocked the immutable real truths of The Bible pushing 60 and never having cared about The Bible before.

None of this is "important work". He's one of a billion dudes with a platform who is just ranting about shit that bugs him now. He's essentially a grumpy old man yelling at the clouds now that he's free of academia. Completely inoffensive, completely unimportant in the scheme of things. People thinking what he's doing is very important are just as weird as the people who think he's the most vile creature around right now.
Click to expand...

Show me on the doll where Jordan Peterson touched you.
 
Airola

Airola

Member
Knob Creek said:
And now he's unlocked the immutable real truths of The Bible pushing 60 and never having cared about The Bible before.
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I recall him saying he's been figuring out The Bible for several decades.
That's why his analysis for just a couple of passages in it takes a couple of hours.
 
D

Dunki

Member
E

Ethical Hedonism

Banned
His written work is unprovable, unverifiable and always plausibly deniable whenever he wants to troll someone's arguments.
Peterson's a hack at the most and disingenuous at best.
People listening to him should stop listening and go about cleaning their own rooms already.
 
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Kotzen Ducha

Kotzen Ducha

Banned
Ethical Hedonism said:
His written work is unprovable, unverifiable and always plausibly deniable whenever he wants to troll someone's arguments.
Peterson's a hack at the most and disingenuous at best.
People listening to him should stop listening and go about cleaning their own rooms already.
Click to expand...


I haven't seen Eric Weinstein or wife take issue with his views and they are liberal evolutionary biologists.
Of course that entire field of study flies in the face of a certain modern ideology so one might think they are hacks as well.

What in particular do you think is hackery or disingenuous? I've been listening to him for a couple of months and he seems reasonable and consistent.
 
V

Vicetrailia

Member
Peterson is not a facts/statistics guy, to me, his value resides on the motivational speaker front and conservative philosopher. He's not pointed, he's eloquent.

Then he said this in his fox interview:

If you have your children in a school and they talk about equity, and there's a class, and they talk about equity, diversity, inclusivity, white privilege, systemic racism, any of that, you take your children out of the class. They're not being educated, they're being indoctrinated. And there's absolutely no excuse for it.
Click to expand...

And I'm wondering, who is he really for? It ain't me. He has a view, but the truth is far from it.
 
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D

Dunki

Member
Ethical Hedonism said:
His written work is unprovable, unverifiable and always plausibly deniable whenever he wants to troll someone's arguments.
Peterson's a hack at the most and disingenuous at best.
People listening to him should stop listening and go about cleaning their own rooms already.
Click to expand...
DEspite what you think he is actually the voice of many people.

Jordan Peterson’s thoughts on motherhood

Backstage at a recent political event, a young professional woman leaned in and asked me if I had heard that Jordan Peterson was coming to town. “I already bought my ticket,” she whispered excitedly. Just days before, another young mom friend, a stay-at-home mom, told me she couldn’t figure out which of Peterson’s books to buy first. Yet another young mom friend shares on Facebook seemingly every story that bears Peterson’s name.

While Canadian professor and YouTube sensation Jordan Peterson is often framed as a media "messiah" to young men, if my own experience is any indication, he’s also got quite a cult following among young, professional moms.

Why are 30-something moms so into a man who admonishes college men to clean up their dorm rooms? Perhaps it’s because Peterson actually has quite a bit to say about modern womanhood—and motherhood in particular.
Click to expand...

https://www.mercatornet.com/mobile/view/jordan-petersons-thoughts-on-motherhood
 
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