disappeared
Banned
I was going to say that it's likely too late for him to get in on F4's development, but I forgot all about DLC. Absolutely, would love if they let him guest-write an expansion.
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Chris Avellone has left Obsidian Entertainment
- Thread starter Drazgul
- Start date
I was going to say that it's likely too late for him to get in on F4's development, but I forgot all about DLC. Absolutely, would love if they let him guest-write an expansion.
Never underestimate an ailing wolf.
LurkerPrime
Member
Y'all hoping he works for Bethesda are the highest levels of crazy. Bethesda would have no idea what to do with his work, and even less of an idea on how to meaningfully implement it into their game; they struggle enough to get their own writing in there.
Dang.
It was Chris who had very lofty visions for his Pillars of Eternity characters (Durance and Grieving Mother) only for them to get pared down a lot. Probably unrelated, but it must be tough being a creative-type and having things like that happen on a regular basis, essentially giving up everything you personally create to your team and the company's overall needs. ...Or else being a stretch goal broke him.
Edit:
So this was posted on the RPGCodex, taken from Chris Avellone Facebook account:
Maybe power struggle inside Obsidian itself? Damn shame either way to see a legend from my teen years walk away.
Dang.
It was Chris who had very lofty visions for his Pillars of Eternity characters (Durance and Grieving Mother) only for them to get pared down a lot. Probably unrelated, but it must be tough being a creative-type and having things like that happen on a regular basis, essentially giving up everything you personally create to your team and the company's overall needs. ...Or else being a stretch goal broke him.
Edit:
Urgh. That's a naughty thing to do.
Irobot82
Member
Josh Sawyer is the man! Fallout isn't the only Black Isle game. IWD and IWD2 are some fantastic CRPG's.
Yeah, I should have looked for confirmation. A quick glance at the Codex has a bunch of people acting like it was a real post, although it was posted back in March. I can't find a direct link.
Yeah just realized that they have a massive hate boner for Josh Sawyer and faking Tweets from him, but I think the MCA facebook post is real, unless someone can say otherwise.
damn, my headcanon obsidian political drama is falling apart now.
CrichtonKicks
Member
He was creative director at the studio, though. Had he wanted he could have made them his needs. I don't know why we didn't see more games where he was lead designer but he himself noted that it wasn't his place to force his vision into someone else's game.
I wouldn't be surprised to find that his other responsibilities at Obsidian and elsewhere had kept him from having more direct involvement in day to day game making than he would like and he may be pursuing something that is more strictly creative.
Irobot82
Member
Because he made a game that improved upon the gameplay aspects of Baldurs Gate. Since it wasn't BG they cried like a bunch of babies.
RPGCodex seems like an insufferable place to me.
We are known as Neof*gs over there.
Seriously though the Codex is a scary place sometimes, lots of repulsive language and angry people that think everything is shit apparently. Then they just say they are trolling everyone.
wolfhowwl
Banned
Josh Sawyer had the sheer arrogance to go with his own judgment as a designer instead of solely catering to the nostalgia-clouded delusions of bitter forum neckbeards.
It can be. I like their RPG ranking threads though, and while they like to whine about great games, it's rare that they champion a bad one.
Was it RPG Codex that threw in (collectively) money to POE's kickstarter to submit in-game weapons or something and they ended up being tossed into some closet in some inn or something in the game? I guess that's how people should feel about RPGCodex.
exmachina64
Banned
Typically, that would be a more managerial role. Overseeing the creative direction of the company and its products doesn't leave much time to micromanage individual games.
The smaller threads are fine too - basically the sort of games whose discussions die on gaf due to the userbase of the two sites differing rather dramatically.
I'd imagine he would be, but then he was already skipping out on some of his panels last year, so who knows.
I kind of saw him moving on at some point, especially after his work with inXile. As long as stays in the industry and makes awesome games things should be ok.
They totally should. It would be nice of Todd Howard.
Fallout 4 programmer: https://twitter.com/IridiumGameDev/status/608274670215921664
So this was posted on the RPGCodex, taken from Chris Avellone Facebook account:
Maybe power struggle inside Obsidian itself? Damn shame either way to see a legend from my teen years walk away.
People are jumping to the conclusion that this could be referring to dissent within Obsidian, but it could also refer to Obsidian's many canceled projects. They tried pitching KOTOR3 and Alpha Protocol 2 with no success. We know the Aliens and Snow White RPGs were canceled, as well as a rumored Microsoft title dubbed "North Carolina". I'm sure many other pitches went nowhere. Each pitch requires a lot of effort, seeing nothing come of it must suck. Losing out on all those after spending so much time pitching each concept would be grinding after a while. It wouldn't be too surprising to see him go to a non-indie (subsidized?) studio where fears of having your game canceled are very slim.
It could also be a fake picture from the trash heap known as RPGCodex.
samuraidino
Member
I kinda expect Avellone to go somewhat freelance now, I mean, at this point he's basically a Human kickstart stretch goal.... so I wouldnt be surprised to see him popping up at various studios.
CrichtonKicks
Member
Yeah that's kind of what I'm getting at- he's been in a position that hasn't given him a direct creative control over many individual games. It wouldn't make sense for him to get super pissed that he didn't have bigger roles in PoE, South Park, and DS3 when he wasn't creative lead on those games. So I doubt that tweet is some grand conspiracy of "Man, why won't anyone in this company listen to me". He had enough clout as a co-owner and exec that he could no doubt have forced his ideas or even taken control over projects himself.
I think, assuming it's games related at all, it's more likely just being fed up over so many failed projects as the post above alludes to. That's got to be emotionally draining.
anexanhume
Member
There were a bunch of similar posts from Bioware people. Not that that seemed a likely destination.
SavoyPrime
Member
Gotta co-sign this!
E3 is next week. Likely just seeing him there.
Sawyer butchered everything he created for PoE and his suggestions were pretty much ignored. He had a minimal role and didn't even want to take credit for the final forms of the 2 companions he was supposed to write because they ended up so different and simplified.So this was posted on the RPGCodex, taken from Chris Avellone Facebook account:
Maybe power struggle inside Obsidian itself? Damn shame either way to see a legend from my teen years walk away.
He owned a share of Obsidian, which is why I thought he wouldn't leave anytime soon without changing the power structure there, but I guess he "lost" and is moving elsewhere before things get ugly between him and people he's been working with for 12 years.
Bethesda would need the combined might of MCA, Saunders and Ziets to fix their terrible writing.
Seriously tho, I don't think Avellone likes the AAA game industry, I can't imagine a company like Bethesda would allow him full creative freedom without trimming most of his scripts and dialogue to suit mainstream trends.
I thought he despised a lot of things about Star Wars. I cant imagine he left Obsidian to go work that because they'd never let him criticize it like he was able to in KotOR II.
Is that actually true or are you projecting this off of Durance and GM being changed?
They'd focus test the shit out of it. I would be pretty sad if he ended up at one of the big dev studios.
This thread has the sources.
Relevant quotes:
If you look at Obsidian's most recent games, the last time MCA had more input was in Alpha Protocol, where he was lead designer, and the cancelled Aliens game (same).
This is not accurate. Avellone was the creative director of 3 out of the 4 Fallout NV DLCs. That's the last time he had the most input in an Obsidian product. Still a long time ago, but not as long as Alpha Protocol. For Aliens, I'm pretty sure Sawyer was the creative director and lead designer. I do remember that Feargus mentioned a few years back though, that Avellone and Sawyer were working together to create a new IP. This might have been the cancelled XB1 RPG or something else.
He could simply be referring to game development in general. David Gaider, lead writer for the DA series, used to have a tumblr account where he talked about writing for games. Any way, basically what he described is exactly what Avellone's post states in that you think up and write something awesome only to have it destroyed piece by piece by the end product.
He does (though, despise might be a bit too strong?), but I think most of his ire is directed more towards LucasArts due to development constraints. He refused to talk about it when an audience member asked him about it at one of his DragonCon panels a couple years back, and kinda did so in a way that made it seem like he was still not happy about that project.
Even if Disney may be a different beast and it being more than a decade later, I doubt he'll be quick to work on Star Wars any time soon.
CrichtonKicks
Member
I thought he admitted he wasn't a big SW fan even when they got KOTOR 2? He certainly gave the game his all though.
BIONIC-ARRRMMM!!
Member
He gave us the masterpiece that is Alpha Protocol.
He'll forever have my respect.
He'll forever have my respect.
Warablo
Member
Well, if you count the DLCs, sure. As for Aliens, that's what he put on his LinkedIn profile: Aliens (Creative Lead Designer).
And even if you consider the DLCs, that's 5 years without being in a major creative role, despite the fact he owned part of Obsidian and used to be its Creative Director. He wouldn't have taken up so many side projects (even for free, in FTL's case) if he had enough on his plate back home.
CrichtonKicks
Member
I don't' know, I'm still waiting on his Wasteland 2 novel(la).
Ah, that's interesting. It seems like every single project where he worked closely with Sawyer has resulted in cancellation, from the very first project (Fallout 3)! We'll never see a proper collaboration. >_<
I agree with the larger point though. I posted as much earlier on when the news broke. Avellone hasn't had a major contribution to an Obsidian project for a long time now. He was in a supervisory role while everyone else was having more fun doing the actual design and writing. It's pretty unfortunate.
He owes us one for PoE too...
I'm partially have this feeling, but then my realist side kicks in. I mean, what he could he do as a single person amidst Bethesda developers that possibly stranger to him or would be against his creative vision? It just impossible, even when we're not accounting the fact that FO4 already in development for 4 years.