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[Liberty4all]

There is a fine line between right and wrong. Laws are made to protect the people. When a law is being enforced that does nothing but destroy a family decades after the law was broken then enforcing it does absolutely nothing of any value. "That'll show other people about thinking of coming here illegally" is not a morally justified excuse for shit like this to happen.

The law is the law but fuck the law in situations like this.

You can respect the law and even support a racist, sexist pig and still have enough self respect and dignity to not make excuses for the actions being taken here. Fuck that shit.

We feel differently and that's ok. I won't resort to personal attacks but will simply argue my beliefs.

Length of time from when the law breaking took place is not an excuse (imho). Otherwise any illegal alien might hold the hope that if enough time passes without getting caught he or she will get a pass.

That is not fair to those who wait years to immigrate legally.

 

[Frozenprince]

Well if length of time since breaking the law is no longer a justifiable excuse then we can just throw away every single statue of limitations on all laws. Hope George W Bush likes club fed since he's admitted to using cocaine.

"The law is the law" is an utterly vile and reductivist view on the issue and really, any issue, that I don't know where to begin. An unjust law or an unjust ruling contaminate and destroy all justice the preceded it. A law that allows a situation like this to happen cannot be just. And it cannot be right. What has this woman done other than come to this country in search of a better life? What great crime did she commit? What travesty of Justice did she perpetuates by living here and starting a family with somebody who will now be forced to blow their lives apart?

How could you ever call that justice? How could that ever be right?

Illegal immigration is a stable number and has been for decades. It's a net benefit for the economy, and much of the money being spent to deport this poor woman and others like her could be better spent helping people here instead of throwing them away for daring to wish for a better life for themselves.

ICE refused to give her a visa and yet for 10 years they never had issue with her continuing to live here without official citizenship or residency rights. Because she has a family and to break them up over triviality of the law would be cruel and meaningless.

How does this showcase what America should represent itself to ve?

 

[Got]

Yup, empathy is the underlying cause to many of our countries woes. Proved again in this very thread.

 

[GrizzleBoy]

I'm a supporter of the president but I'll admit the story is tragic.

On one hand it sends a strong message to any other would be illegal aliens, on the other there is certainly a massive human tragedy element to this case.

I fall on the side "the law is the law". She came at age 32, she knew the risks. While I personally hope she can get an expedited visa back I recognize she can't due to the 10 years if deported law - another rule in place to discourage illegal immigration.

This is a valuable lesson on respecting the immigration laws of the United States, and the grave consequences of not doing so. Ideally examples such as this will discourage potential aliens from breaking US immigration law.

I do find it refreshing to see immigration laws finally being enforced. Laws without consequences are useless.

What is this?

Law only works if the punishment is proportional to the contravention of the law.

It's why people protest and create movements when suspects get beat down or murdered by police for no reason instead of just saying "meh, shouldn't have been jaywalking then. Law is the law."

Under no circumstances is ruining no less than SIX American citizens lives and destroying their right to a family, proportional to the crime of those American citizens wife and mother being illegal.

It's not just the illegal immigrant they're punishing, its her entire family and everyone who knows them, likely also American citizens will also be languishing.

It's completely idiotic.

We feel differently and that's ok. I won't resort to personal attacks but will simply argue my beliefs.

Length of time from when the law breaking took place is not an excuse (imho). Otherwise any illegal alien might hold the hope that if enough time passes without getting caught he or she will get a pass.

That is not fair to those who wait years to immigrate legally.

Again, ruining the lives of her five American children who had no choice in the matter, and all of the problems that come with having a loved one ripped out of your life, is okay as long as we "get" her?

American lives are acceptable collateral damage as long as we "get" the brownies?

The "law was the law" when non whites were not allowed to attend school in not too distant history.

Maybe we should PROTEST shitty laws instead of shrugging our shoulders, watching these kinds of atrocities and turning our backs on people?

 

[Einchy]

I will never understand someone's point of view when they care more about legality than morality. Just because something is a law doesn't make it okay, just because someone breaks the law doesn't make them a bad person and they don't deserve to be rounded up like cattle and have their lives ruined.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

I never said you have no self respect or dignity. I said you can have enough to not excuse the actions being taken here. The law is the law is such a shitty point of view sometimes. People are often killed by the police acting within the law. It isnt always just. This is not justice. There is no net benefit by enforcing this. If you cant see that then we will never agree on this.

 

[Frozenprince]

How far does this belief spread them? The law is the law right, better never speed. Better have never done drugs. Better have not had a drop to drink before you turned legal age. After all, the law is the law. And no matter how long or how punitive, you must be punished for breaking it.

So how far does this extend? Because you only ever see this hypocritical nonsense when it comes to minorities being incarcerated at higher rates and immigration.

 

[Got]

I will never understand someone's point of view when they care more about legality than morality. Just because something is a law doesn't make it okay, just because someone breaks the law doesn't make them a bad person and they don't deserve to be rounded up like cattle and have their lives ruined.

Makes it easier for when they use the excuse that they were just following orders.

 

[Einchy]

Yup, empathy is the underlying cause to many of our countries woes. Proved again in this very thread.

The biggest issue with this and that you cannot teach empathy, no one can show you how to care about other people.

A woman was taken from her 5 children and husband and it's "refreshing".

 

[commedieu]

We feel differently and that's ok. I won't resort to personal attacks but will simply argue my beliefs.

Length of time from when the law breaking took place is not an excuse (imho). Otherwise any illegal alien might hold the hope that if enough time passes without getting caught he or she will get a pass.

That is not fair to those who wait years to immigrate legally.

Americans build industries with undocumented workers, because Americans won't work for low wages. It's like thinking the death penalty prevents murders. This isn't a response to how unfair it is for legal immigration. We can stop that right now. If it was, companies would be closing down around the clock for a new federal effort to stop hiring undocumented people. All you're seeing is ice going after people, and businesses just going through the undocumented victims.

People will come to a country and risk their lives for opportunities, as they always have. And there will always be Americans willing to benefit from cheap labor. We aren't trying to solve an immigration problem here. This uptick is to destroy families, and intimidate. With the new VOICE program, they will have information published about crimes they do. However, such a thing can't exist for Americans own police departments.

If this was an honest effort to reduce harm to the United states, we wouldn't be targeting Mexicans. The cheeto came out of the gate saying a lot of them are rapists and murderers. There is no genuine "laws the law" mentality, and thinking like that is what creates opportunities like DREAM and DACA, things aren't black in white in this country. Like how millionaires pay less taxes than you, or how if you're rich, you can get away with killing someone during a dui. There is flexibility in the laws of our land. America literally forgave nazi war criminals to work in our fields of rockets and science. This isn't to be hyperbolic, it's to point out that the law is not the law in some draconian judge dredd way.

If there was a concern to really solve an issue, yoy do so while keeping in mind not doing cruel and unusual actions, those efforts would be made. If this was a genuine effort. This is a large punishment of groups of people, as seen fit by a lot of low information people. What happens to this kids? Right. Burdens of the state.

You have to frame your opinion genuinely, keeping in mind the action behind cheetos words, this isn't going to solve any issue. If anything, people with legal visas were almost banned because of orange oversight.

If we offer jobs to undocumented people, we need to make it so non violent people, who contribute to our gdp, have easier ways of becoming citizens or having a special class. They aren't taking anything from the rest of us. They help this nation be a better one. Opportunity is here, we have a military budget bigger than God siphoning off all of our tax money.

 

[Got]

The biggest issue with this and that you cannot teach empathy, no one can show you how to care about other people.

A woman was taken from her 5 children and husband and it's "refreshing".

Yeah, sometimes I wish I was an asshole who could shut it off. It seems like an easier way to go about in life. I wish I didn't give a shit.

 

[Angelus Errare]

This is pretty fucked.

"The law is the law" is a flimsy argument when you look at the disparity in how the law is applied across races, it literally flies in the face of that argument.

 

[Yekshemesh]

Even racists need to understand that these people are essential to our economy. Even if you hate them, do the math and think about the effect on your lifestyle. You're cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

[Frozenprince]

This is pretty fucked.

"The law is the law" is a flimsy argument when you look at the disparity in how the law is applied across races, it literally flies in the face of that argument.

Plus it only ever applies to laws they agree with and never for foreign countries that have what anybody with a brain knows is a police state or "moral laws" designed to oppress.

It's pretty much entirely bullshit.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Plus it only ever applies to laws they agree with and never for foreign countries that have what anybody with a brain knows is a police state or "moral laws" designed to oppress.

It's pretty much entirely bullshit.

Pretty much. Hell, I'm willing to bet if I made a thread saying we need to go into middle America and arrest opioid users/dealers en masse and put them in prisons (because after all the law is the law), people would be trying to envoke "understanding" and "what about families that will suffer".

 

[Baron Doggystyle von Woof]

Americans must feel safer already after reading this

 

[Frozenprince]

Pretty much. Hell, I'm willing to bet if I made a thread saying we need to go into middle America and arrest opioid users/dealers en masse and put them in prisons (because after all the law is the law), people would be trying to envoke "understanding" and "what about families that will suffer".

Those are just victims bruh, they need help not jail time.

 

[Got]

Americans must feel safer already after reading this

definitely the fucking stupid ones do.

 

[Liberty4all]

Well if length of time since breaking the law is no longer a justifiable excuse then we can just throw away every single statue of limitations on all laws. Hope George W Bush likes club fed since he's admitted to using cocaine.

"The law is the law" is an utterly vile and reductivist view on the issue and really, any issue, that I don't know where to begin. An unjust law or an unjust ruling contaminate and destroy all justice the preceded it. A law that allows a situation like this to happen cannot be just. And it cannot be right. What has this woman done other than come to this country in search of a better life? What great crime did she commit? What travesty of Justice did she perpetuates by living here and starting a family with somebody who will now be forced to blow their lives apart?

How could you ever call that justice? How could that ever be right?

Illegal immigration is a stable number and has been for decades. It's a net benefit for the economy, and much of the money being spent to deport this poor woman and others like her could be better spent helping people here instead of throwing them away for daring to wish for a better life for themselves.

ICE refused to give her a visa and yet for 10 years they never had issue with her continuing to live here without official citizenship or residency rights. Because she has a family and to break them up over triviality of the law would be cruel and meaningless.

How does this showcase what America should represent itself to ve?

Is there a statute of limitations in laws pertaining to illegal immigration?

Edit: I disagree with you. The crime she committed was knowingly entering the country illegally. There are thousands of people who wait years to enter the country legally. Not even from a legal perspective but morally what gave her the right to jump the line?

ICE refusing to deport her for years is a failure politically to enforce the law. And I actually do think you have a point there.

 

[Frozenprince]

Is there a statute of limitations in laws pertaining to illegal immigration?

Wow that is the single most reductivist way to respond to literally every single thing I said.

No, there isn't, but it's also not de facto illegal to be an undocumented immigrant (what you should call them). Because you are not always an immediately detained and deported, ICE works with many to ensure they receive legal residency, or at least have meetings to ensure that she's not a threat not doing harm, as they did with this woman for ten years before this moment.

You took nothing from that post other than the one thing you wanted to make your argument to hammer away at with semantics.

I'm not arguing semantics. I'm arguing what the law is and what the law represents.

 

[GrizzleBoy]

Wow that is the single most reductivist way to respond to literally every single thing I said.

No, there isn't, but it's also not de facto illegal to be an undocumented immigrant (what you should call them). Because you are not always an immediately detained and deported, ICE works with many to ensure they receive legal residency, or at least have meetings to ensure that she's not a threat not doing harm, as they did with this woman for ten years before this moment.

You took nothing from that post other than the one thing you wanted to make your argument to hammer away at with semantics.

I'm not arguing semantics. I'm arguing what the law is and what the law represents.

Just sweep over his recent post history regarding his support for Steve Bannon and how he believes whites are discriminated against when applying for jobs.

Im not sure it's worth the effort.

 

[Got]

Just sweep over his recent post history regarding his support for Steve Banning and how he believes whites are discriminated against when applying for jobs.

Im not sure it's worth the effort.

but his token wife though...

 

[Pluto]

I fall on the side "the law is the law". She came at age 32, she knew the risks. While I personally hope she can get an expedited visa back I recognize she can't due to the 10 years if deported law - another rule in place to discourage illegal immigration.

I agree on some level, she was an adult, she broke the law and unlike others didn't come as a child. She knew what she was getting into.
But she also lived in america for almost two decades, had a family, contributed to society. What do you gain by deporting this woman?

This is a valuable lesson on respecting the immigration laws of the United States, and the grave consequences of not doing so. Ideally examples such as this will discourage potential aliens from breaking US immigration law.

It won't discourage anyone though, it will just lead to undocumented immigrants living in fear. They won't report crimes or come forward as witnesses because of fear for example

I do find it refreshing to see immigration laws finally being enforced. Laws without consequences are useless.

What do you mean finally? They've been enforced before, Obama deported more people than Bush for example. The difference was that before they deported criminals not people who just want to live their lives peacefuly.

It's also important to remember that if all undocumented immigrants packed their bags and left today america would be in for a rude awakening tomorrow.
So all of this "deport them all!" Talk is just that, talk to appeal to their base, they'll deport a bunch of brown people to "send a message" and eventually they'll deport a white person back to europe to show that they're not targeting brown people except we all know that that's what it's all about because when some racist hick talks about "illegal aliens" they don't mean french, german or swedish people.

 

[Liberty4all]

Wow that is the single most reductivist way to respond to literally every single thing I said.

No, there isn't, but it's also not de facto illegal to be an undocumented immigrant (what you should call them). Because you are not always an immediately detained and deported, ICE works with many to ensure they receive legal residency, or at least have meetings to ensure that she's not a threat not doing harm, as they did with this woman for ten years before this moment.

You took nothing from that post other than the one thing you wanted to make your argument to hammer away at with semantics.

I'm not arguing semantics. I'm arguing what the law is and what the law represents.

I respect your point of view but disagree. That's ok, it's why different political parties exist.

I get you feel the law is "unjust". I understand why (especially in a situation like this). Just presenting an alternate point of view. One that many others agree with.

Why should this woman receive legal residency? She entered the country illegally.

 

[Frozenprince]

She entered the country without documentation because thousands wait and wait and wait only to be denied for arbitrary reasons. Just two days ago our president banned people from 7 countries from coming here even if they have an active visa application being processed.

Here's something that might blow your mind.

Your party doesn't want undocumented immigrants out. Because they are the backbone of the largest menial labor jobs in the country, our farms, our factories.

Nobody wants them out, if they did it's stupidly simple to crack k down on. ICE would be an effective and cutthroat department.

But it isn't and they don't, just like with illegal drugs, just like with illegal firearms, just like with illegal exports and imports.

It's more profitable and better for then to pretend to care for political benefits, again, like drugs and the war on terror, then to actually have actionable plans.

A wall is not a real deterrent, active and wide reaching deportation is. And that's not happening. If it were you'd be hearing about it already. This wouldn't be a national news story, it would just be another voicr in a see of pain.

I respect your point of view but disagree. That's ok, it's why different political parties exist.

I get you feel the law is "unjust". I understand why (especially in a situation like this). Just presenting an alternate point of view. One that many others agree with.

Why should this woman receive legal residency? She entered the country illegally.

So no undocumented people should ever be able to repatriate and get any sort of legal status then. Ever.

Gotcha. No, you don't understand, you don't respect my point of view or you would address literally anything I'm saying rather than just repeat over and over that "well we all believe differently" like this is an episode of transformers.

Political parties don't mean we're supposed to be utterly opposed and tow the party line. You're allowed to have views that don't align with the GOP, it's okay to believe that this is wrong and want to figure out alternatives to immigration problems you perceive.

You don't have to be a mindless shill every time you see the word illegal.

 

[GrizzleBoy]

I respect your point of view but disagree. That's ok, it's why different political parties exist.

I get you feel the law is "unjust". I understand why (especially in a situation like this). Just presenting an alternate point of view. One that many others agree with.

Why should this woman receive legal residency? She entered the country illegally.

Why should her American children lose their mother?

What did those American kids do to deserve this punishment from the US government?

Why do you feel they no longer should have the right to their mother?


The "law was the law" when black kids couldn't go to school not too long ago.

You would've been the kind of 0erson people had to fight against to get those shitty laws changed instead of just shrugging their shoulders and going along with it.

 

[Liberty4all]

I agree on some level, she was an adult, she broke the law and unlike others didn't come as a child. She knew what she was getting into.
But she also lived in america for almost two decades, had a family, contributed to society. What do you gain by deporting this woman?


It won't discourage anyone though, it will just lead to undocumented immigrants living in fear. They won't report crimes or come forward as witnesses because of fear for example


What do you mean finally? They've been enforced before, Obama deported more people than Bush for example. The difference was that before they deported criminals not people who just want to live their lives peacefuly.

It's also important to remember that if all undocumented immigrants packed their bags and left today america would be in for a rude awakening tomorrow.
So all of this "deport them all!" Talk is just that, talk to appeal to their base, they'll deport a bunch of brown people to "send a message" and eventually they'll deport a white person back to europe to show that they're not targeting brown people except we all know that that's what it's all about because when some racist hick talks about "illegal aliens" they don't mean french, german or swedish people.

My understanding is that the Obama stats counted those turned back at the border which artificially inflated said stats. I could be wrong though.

Also illegal immigration is down by 40%. : http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39215655

One might argue the hardline stance of the current administration is a direct reason for discouraging would be illegal immigrants.

As for the gain deporting her ... it shows very clearly that there will be no leniency for those who break US immigration law. Somebody considering making the trip illegally may think twice knowing they could be deported at any time.

 

[Einchy]

As for the gain deporting her ... it shows very clearly that there will be no leniency for those who break US immigration law. Somebody considering making the trip illegally may think twice knowing they could be deported at any time.

And this is a net positive for you...how exactly?

When her family was together and happy, how was this affecting your life negatively? How is your life better now that her children have lost their mother?

 

[Frozenprince]

My understanding is that the Obama stats counted those turned back at the border which artificially inflated said stats. I could be wrong though.

Also illegal immigration is down by 40%. : http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39215655

One might argue the hardline stance of the current administration is a direct reason for discouraging would be illegal immigrants.

As for the gain deporting her ... it shows very clearly that there will be no leniency for those who break US immigration law. Somebody considering making the trip illegally may think twice knowing they could be deported at any time.

Again. Time to learn something since I doubt you've spent five minutes learning about their experience or even having a conversation with an undocumented immigrant.

This is already a thing. But they choose to accept that risk, because, and this is the important bit.

They choose this risk over their lives in their native land because they want a better life in a land of better opportunities.

So no, there is no gain here. This is a woman being ripped from her home, yes, her home, and forced to a country where she has nowhere to go and leaving her family, Americans, here, alone and without their wife and mother.

Real nice lesson.

 

[Beartruck]

Bannon's favorite book involves a race war so of course he wants to piss off brown people. In the brain of that diseased alchy, stories like this are fighting the good fight.

 

[GrizzleBoy]

And this is a net positive for you...how exactly?

When her family was together and happy, how was this affecting your life negatively? How is your life better now that her children have lost their mother?

No no no, it's all about the principle of it.

Sure the water fountain for the blacks is broken and it's blazing hot, but you don't get to drink from the whites fountain.

It's against the law.

The law is the law.

He could protest to change it, or he could just stand by, admitting the law is causing unwanted tragedies, but....

The law is the law.

"Sorry".

He's all about the principle.

 

[Liberty4all]

Why should her American children lose their mother?

What did those American kids do to deserve this punishment from the US government?

Why do you feel they no longer should have the right to their mother?

Those children could move with her. I believe they won't lose their American citizenship (correct me if I'm wrong).

The mother chose this road 18 years ago when she decided American immigration laws did not apply to her.

 

[Frozenprince]

And again, I will ask.

How far does your "the law is the law" position extend? Where is your line on what constitutes one to be followed blindly.

 

[Liberty4all]

Again. Time to learn something since I doubt you've spent five minutes learning about their experience or even having a conversation with an undocumented immigrant.

You are wrong, I worked professionally with refugees as well as stateless individuals in Canada.

 

[GrizzleBoy]

Those children could move with her. I believe they won't lose their American citizenship (correct me if I'm wrong).

The mother chose this road 18 years ago when she decided American immigration laws did not apply to her.

The children didn't have a choice, so why are you okay with punishing those American citizens?

Why are five innocent American children acceptable collateral damage in your crusade to "get" this woman?

 

[commedieu]

I respect your point of view but disagree. That's ok, it's why different political parties exist.

I get you feel the law is "unjust". I understand why (especially in a situation like this). Just presenting an alternate point of view. One that many others agree with.

Why should this woman receive legal residency? She entered the country illegally.

Just have to say: The party of white supremacy is promoting immigration being the crux of American problems, and problems world wide, as it always has. There is a right side of history as far as political parties go with this issue. A healthy precedent

More people voted against white supremacy in America, bUT our electoral college gave the Republican party a win, and this was with a low turnout.

It is hiding behind the law to use that as a justification for bigoted actions, just like the disparity in population with whites and blacks in prison systems. This is a historic tactic of white supremacy. Especially in America with its history of slavery being legal.

It's not just a simple ideology like the government shouldn't spend taxes on candy. No, it's about targeting undocumented families who aren't violent criminals, and breaking up families because they broke a law entering the country. This isn't a viable solution to the problem.

It isn't an opinion that this isn't for producing positive immigration reform. Or that that this is a genuine effort for reform.

If all you have to say is that the law is the law, not much of a discussion can be had there with that flawed concept. Maybe to save time from people quoting you, OP can add that you think the laws the law. You can respond to how this isn't effective with any stated goals.

 

[Frozenprince]

Those children could move with her. I believe they won't lose their American citizenship (correct me if I'm wrong).

The mother chose this road 18 years ago when she decided American immigration laws did not apply to her.

Yes, move with her to a country they do not know away from their lives, family, friends and future (good luck getting into an American University with Mexican HS credits). How do you even know if any of them speak Spanish? What will her husband do? Quit his job? Tear apart their lives even more?

I'm sorry I'm just gonna say it. You're deleriously out of touch with what you're talking about.

You are wrong, I worked professionally with refugees as well as stateless individuals in Canada.

Then you should know better then to even suggest something as asinine as "well her family can just all move to another country where they have nothing".

And refugees and stateless individuals in Canada are a far cry from undocumented migrants and immigrants. Stateless people aren't even functionally the same. Those forced by their home nations due to war or oppression to claim statelessness has nothing to do with undocumented migrants.

 

[Liberty4all]

No no no, it's all about the principle of it.

Sure the water fountain for the blacks is broken and it's blazing hot, but you don't get to drink from the whites fountain.

It's against the law.

The law is the law.

He could protest to change it, or he could just stand by, admitting the law is causing unwanted tragedies, but....

The law is the law.

"Sorry".

He's all about the principle.

I agree with the law. I believe it should be enforced. The unwanted tragedies are a direct result of individuals breaking the law. The one area I do think the law should be looked at are case of children brought in illegally by parents and having grown up in the US. I'm not a fan of deporting a child who had no choice to begin with.

Are the current immigration laws just? I guess that's personal opinion and one that folks have vastly divergent opinions on.

 

[Frozenprince]

I agree with the law. I believe it should be enforced. The unwanted tragedies are a direct result of individuals breaking the law. The one area I do think the law should be looked at are case of children brought in illegally by parents and having grown up in the US. I'm not a fan of deporting a child who had no choice to begin with.

Are the current immigration laws just? I guess that's personal opinion and one that folks have vastly divergent opinions on.

And AGAIN.

Where is your line then? Do you believe other laws just shouldn't be enforced because you don't "believe" in them?

 

[GrizzleBoy]

I agree with the law. I believe it should be enforced. The unwanted tragedies are a direct result of individuals breaking the law. The one area I do think the law should be looked at are case of children brought in illegally by parents and having grown up in the US. I'm not a fan of deporting a child who had no choice to begin with.

Are the current immigration laws just? I guess that's personal opinion and one that folks have vastly divergent opinions on.

Yet when I ask you why you are okay with her innocent American kids being punished, the best answer you can give is, "well, they can leave the country too"......

Those children could move with her. I believe they won't lose their American citizenship (correct me if I'm wrong).

I mean it's okay to effectively deport them if they have any interest in being a family. They won't even lose their citizenship.....

 

[Liberty4all]

And AGAIN.

Where is your line then? Do you believe other laws just shouldn't be enforced because you don't "believe" in them?

I think all laws should be enforced. Period.

As for the ones I don't agree with, that's what (getting involved with) politics are for. Don't like the laws? Get involved with a political party to get those laws changed. Canvass on the phones for the party/candidate you support. I'm pretty sure that at least is the same is the US as Canada.

 

[Frozenprince]

I think all laws should be enforced. Period.

As for the ones I don't agree with, that's what (getting involved with) politics are for. Don't like the laws? Get involved with a political party to get those laws changed. Canvass on the phones for the party/candidate you support. I'm pretty sure that at least is the same is the US as Canada.

Then we're done here. There's nothing more to say to you. This is such a ridiculous and idiotic world view there's no arguing or debating it.

No, not all laws should be enforced, something many politicians and those who's JOBS it is to enforce the law believe and preach publicly for selective enforcement. Laws are not all and always blanket encompassing. You don't always get tickets when speeding, you don't always get arrested when you have drugs, you don't always get deported when you're undocumented. Because the law isn't an all or nothing system based on draconian definitions of Justice and Fairness.

And dear lord if you're Canadian lecturing anybody on how our system works in America.

 

[Einchy]

Wait, you don't even live in America and you find it refreshing that people are being removed from a country that you don't even live in?

 

[Liberty4all]

Yet when I ask you why you are okay with her innocent American kids being punished, the best answer you can give is, "well, they can leave the country too"......

And what if the mom had robbed a bank? Or stolen a car? Or <insert crime here>. Would she not face consequences (many years in jail) regardless if she has kids?? In this case she knowingly did commit a crime, one that has a very clear consequence - deportation.

The argument here is as it has always been - is illegally entering the country a crime with consequences? I say yes. You say no.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

Are you a cop?

 

[Frozenprince]

And what if the mom had robbed a bank? Or stolen a car? Or <insert crime here>. Would she not face consequences (many years in jail) regardless if she has kids?? In this case she knowingly did commit a crime, one that has a very clear consequence - deportation.

The argument here is as it has always been - is illegally entering the country a crime with consequences? I say yes. You say no.

And yet you say in your first post "I'm open to having my views challenged and changed".

No you are not. Not even slightly. You live in such a rigid world that I struggle to see how you even convince yourself that might be true. There is severity to crime, dude. It's why we have degrees of them in legal terms with which to differentiate between them so as to not disproportionately punish.

Her being here without legal residency is not equal to robbing a bank or shooting peoplr.

 

[Einchy]

Are you a cop?

*sees man jaywalking*

THE LAW IS THE LAW

One less bad hombre in a country I don't even live in.

 

[Liberty4all]

Then we're done here. There's nothing more to say to you. This is such a ridiculous and idiotic world view there's no arguing or debating it.

No, not all laws should be enforced, something many politicians and those who's JOBS it is to enforce the law believe and preach publicly for selective enforcement. Laws are not all and always blanket encompassing. You don't always get tickets when speeding, you don't always get arrested when you have drugs, you don't always get deported when you're undocumented. Because the law isn't an all or nothing system based on draconian definitions of Justice and Fairness.

And dear lord if you're Canadian lecturing anybody on how our system works in America.

I disagree. Rule of law SHOULD be enforced even if it's just a court case to determine culpability. If you don't like the laws work to get them repealed or changed through the political system.

 

[Frozenprince]

I disagree. Rule of law SHOULD be enforced even if it's just a court case to determine culpability. If you don't like the laws work to get them repealed or changed through the political system.

That's not how criminal law reform works or has ever worked in America.

Immigration and drug laws will never change on a federal level because nobody will sacrifice the political capital they gain from them

Rule of law is enforced. We don't go around killing, raping and beating each other because of that. The rest is selective enforcement based on the judgements of people who are in charge of these things. In this case, ICE.

 

[commedieu]

And what if the mom had robbed a bank? Or stolen a car? Or <insert crime here>. Would she not face consequences (many years in jail) regardless if she has kids?? In this case she knowingly did commit a crime, one that has a very clear consequence - deportation.

The argument here is as it has always been - is illegally entering the country a crime with consequences? I say yes. You say no.

She'd be deported, like under Obama's record number of deportation of serious crimes and offenses. The problem might be, because youre Canadian. Undocumented workers practically live and support families on both sides of the border here, when you get out of line, you're deported. I think ifs due largely due to exchange rate, and proximity. But, no states go after all Undocumented people for just being Undocumented. Just like police don't of after all people who don't stop at a stop sign. Or that don't travel the exact speed limit. Targeting non violent families with American children is absurd and provides nothing but wasted resources better served going after criminals, like rapists drug dealers and murderers, that Trump specifically stated.

Law isn't absolute. You think it is, so you'd be a person that supported slavery because it was legal. You can have the temerity to acknowledge the fact that law can be abused. And it's not up to the victims to change it, but the society and people in power to do so.