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Confirmed: Sony Announces PSN Pass, Online Access Pass For 1st Party Titles [Updated]
- Thread starter NateDrake
- Start date
Projectjustice
Banned
BobTheFork said:
Good and they should. The used sales game market doesnt help developers at all. Only evil Gamestop.
TheDarkKnight774
Member
I agree on the pricing, but with agressive price drops where I can get said game new at the same price (or close to it) then used why ever go used?alr1ghtstart said:
Its not like games hold their value for long or we are getting great buy back dollars on games. Only time to go used is old out of print games.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=29085171&postcount=166Projectjustice said:
Projectjustice
Banned
alr1ghtstart said:
Yea you are right Gamestop doesnt make any money off used sale at all.
Projectjustice
Banned
alr1ghtstart said:
You were pretty vague there so......
Projectjustice
Banned
alr1ghtstart said:
So do those sales overtake what Gamstop does in profit?
cutmeamango
Banned
The only thing I assume will be affected is the refreshing of the online portion of games with time.
But well, at least the money will help those games stay alive for more time?
Again, only assuming, usually the used copy sales are not for it's online purposes? Don't see how that will hurt gamestop or any other system.
But well, at least the money will help those games stay alive for more time?
Again, only assuming, usually the used copy sales are not for it's online purposes? Don't see how that will hurt gamestop or any other system.
Projectjustice said:
What does this have to do with anything. Gamestop provides a service for people to trade in their games, people buy games with the credit, which in turn funnels more money to the publishers. They would get less new sales if they didn't provide that service. There is obviously a market for it. If they're really concerned about what gamestop makes via used sales, they should open up their own second hand market where they can take a larger percentage of the margin. There is a reason why gamestop usually has pre-order bonuses...they sell the most new copies.
Gamestop obviously has a business model that heavily leverages used sales. That doesn't mean publishers would magically take all of gamestop's profit and pocket it if they were to go bankrupt.
Projectjustice
Banned
Im glad that Sony and EA is doing this. I hope the rest of the industry follows.
To Far Away Times
Member
I can't stand this shit.
I am surprised they do not at least allow an online trial for rentals. Any multiplayer game worth the asking price is going to offer more than a rental period could cover (unless somebody is keeping a third GameFly slot to hold on to stuff for months at a time) and would help sell the product. If somebody beats the singleplayer campaign as a rental and never even gets to touch the multiplayer, they will just move on.
Was there any real outrage over the trial period for rentals or used copies of Mortal Kombat? I don't follow that game but I never heard anything about it on podcasts, and they even removed the restriction while PSN was down so legitimate purchasers didn't get screwed.
What they should be doing is protecting the value of good single player games so not everything gets some horrible tacked on multiplayer just to keep it off the used shelf a bit longer.
Was there any real outrage over the trial period for rentals or used copies of Mortal Kombat? I don't follow that game but I never heard anything about it on podcasts, and they even removed the restriction while PSN was down so legitimate purchasers didn't get screwed.
What they should be doing is protecting the value of good single player games so not everything gets some horrible tacked on multiplayer just to keep it off the used shelf a bit longer.
alr1ghtstart said:
Stop trying to make sense, didn't you take gafonomics 101 in college:
1.) All profits by companies I don't like are evil and excessive and ill-gotten
2.) Those profits should instead go to companies I like whether deserved or not
3.) Any consumer who buys products or uses services from companies I don't like is ruining the industry.
4.) When faced with higher operating expenses these companies I don't like are expected to magically absorb those expenses without passing them on to the consumer.
gundamkyoukai
Member
Do people think pubs care if the industry make less money but they can make more.
Lets say they make 250 million more thanks to this but the industry as a whole make's less money if that money was going to gamestop i don't think pubs really care about that.
What it really comes down to is yes some people will buy less games but if those games were used it don't matter to pubs.
The question now becomes how many people sell there old games to kept on buying new ones don't have any data on that .
People that buy use games also buy map packs for them etc etc but that's nothing compare to the billion dollar used game market that pubs want to get money from .
Lets say they make 250 million more thanks to this but the industry as a whole make's less money if that money was going to gamestop i don't think pubs really care about that.
What it really comes down to is yes some people will buy less games but if those games were used it don't matter to pubs.
The question now becomes how many people sell there old games to kept on buying new ones don't have any data on that .
People that buy use games also buy map packs for them etc etc but that's nothing compare to the billion dollar used game market that pubs want to get money from .
TheChewyWaffles
Member
Exuro said:
OldJadedGamer
Banned
Projectjustice said:
THQ as well and some devs at WB.
TheChewyWaffles
Member
renitou said:
Un fucking believable.
alr1ghtstart said:
That argument is just as bad as the "1 used game bought = 1 lost sale" argument. Who's to say that the people who trade their games in wouldn't still buy new games? And for that matter, who's to say they're not just buying more used games with those trade-in credits (and thus the publisher isn't seeing a penny)?
Mooreberg said:
Well-argued point.
Ok, now let's go one step further. Sell new games for 10$ less (without a PSN code to punch in for online pass) and have an online pass sitting on the Store for 10$ so people that don't care about online are still compelled to buy new.
I couldn't care less about Dead Space 2 MP and yet I feel like I've payed for it.
I couldn't care less about Dead Space 2 MP and yet I feel like I've payed for it.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
Basically this.Fuzzy said:
If you do buy used games, well WHAT DID YOU EXPECT? It's been a 'bane' of the publishers since SNES/Genesis days. It's just that now theres an infrastructure in place to do something about it.
Sorry to all the Netflix/Gamefly users though. Maybe Sony/MS/EA/Whoever else in the future could work out something with them. I know it's possible. Then again, alot of GameFly users probably don't go online for very long and most games have an online preview at least.
GraveRobberX
Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
Projectjustice said:
Wow..........Now I know you are just trolling. First you go off saying saying buying new = the best solution, then you go fuck second hand/rental users, and last your commending this archaic system which hurts the end users, Jesus bro, do you even read what you spew, it's like someone is a puppet for corporate greed. Bend over, cause those corporates are ready with their lube...psst, they won't be gentle, tearing and bleeding will commence.
Your so selfish, rather than trying to protect yourself and gamers alike, you are happy with this, I've seen it all, There is A FUCKING $10 Online Pass Defense Force...HOLY SHIT!
__________________________________________________________________________
By the way, anyone think this PSN Pass is like that White Knight Chronicles 2 Pass Bullshit?
Did anyone pose this, I skimmed some posts, and didn't see it mentioned
Like the way they mention "PSN Store" "Network blah blah", maybe combat region lock through a pass?
So US R3 copies can't be used by EU/JP and vice-versa
Also if this becomes the industry norm, watch all those NPD's shrink like a motherfucker
People will vote with their dollars, pay $60, get $10 pass free, or wait a month, grab it for from around $20-$40 due to the BOMBA's (not selling) and get the $10 pass free
(I'll be doing that, if can't rent and enjoy, or buy used and enjoy, I will wait till it is cheap enough that it doesn't effect my bottom line)
TheChewyWaffles
Member
The Abominable Snowman said:
Exactly how are you rationalizing Netflix and Gamefly but pissing on people buying used games? Lol, oh GAF.
I swear to God I've never met a more anti-consumer crowd in any subculture than the ones that scurry to the surface in these kinds of threads. Some of you clearly have your heads up corporate asses so far you can see out their mouths. Shame on you.
I don't think that this necessarily disproves the point that you were quoting. You are using the money from games that you sell to buy new games. Buying new games helps the industry, which is obviously what you're getting at, but what about the people that buy the used games from you? It's a hard thing to prove either way, because you don't know if people that buy mostly used games would buy games new if that was their only option.alr1ghtstart said:
I've only bought one used game this gen, so this won't affect me, although I understand why people don't like it. A lot of devs have downsized or gone out of business this gen and 2 of the 3 console manufacturers have lost a fortune by selling powerful hardware at a loss, so something has to give and I can see why they'd do it. It may not even be what people think it is anyway, because an online pass system doesn't seem like the sort of thing you'd want clearly visible on your packaging almost as if it's being pushed as a plus point. It's the sort of thing that small print is for, lol.
I don't think I can blame Sony too much for trying to incentivize (or punishing depending on your viewpoint) people into buying new. I mean people may call the 1 used game = 1 lost sale complete BS, but it's at least not BS as it applies to me. When I really want a game, if there's a used copy for cheaper, I may get that, but if there were no used copies whatsoever anywhere, I would definitely buy new.
I think it's disingenuous to claim that just because 1 used game sale may not ALWAYS equal 1 lost sale, that the theory is just complete bunk. Obviously there are a significant number of people out there who would be buying new if used was not an option - they may simply wait until the game goes on sale, but at least the publisher would still get some money.
I think it's disingenuous to claim that just because 1 used game sale may not ALWAYS equal 1 lost sale, that the theory is just complete bunk. Obviously there are a significant number of people out there who would be buying new if used was not an option - they may simply wait until the game goes on sale, but at least the publisher would still get some money.
While that would be nice; the problem is that it's technically impossible to achieve/price properly. Since they're not putting a price on the actual online, but just charging to those that buy the game used. Online passes or not the game was going to cost the exact same.TTP said:
Look at quite an amazing game like Child of Eden. Which can be finished on under 3 hours and has no multiplayer; should it be priced at under $20 because of that? Would the addition of a multiplayer elevate the price $10 more? If the game was 20 hours long, would that mean that the game would've costed over $100; instead of $50.
Or look at it, using the same Dead Space example you provided. Dead Space 1 with no multiplayer of any kind costed $60. Dead Space 2 with multiplayer (and Extraction if you bought it on PS3) costed the same ($60).
The intention of this passes has always been to get a cut of money from those that buy used or pirate copies; more than passing the costs to new users. Before online passes the game costed the exact same in general (or more), even when many included less content than now.
Single-player is a product.iNvidious01 said:
Offline multiplayer is a product.
Online multiplayer/features count as both a product and a service. They can charge whatever they like because it costs them to maintain it outside of the initial payment you've made. This part is entirely unlike CDs, DVDs and Blu-Rays.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
Because you're already getting the game for a discount. If it's Gamestop the discount may be $5-$10, with the online price bumping it to parity (And honestly, only kids trade in a new-ish game to Gamestop to only get 5%-25% of what they payed for it back in credit).BigNastyCurve said:
If secondhand from another source probably even deeper, so you're still not paying 'new' prices. Sorry you have to pay for full functionality. With many PC games, you can't even sell it once it's been installed or activated a certain number of times. Yet its market is still healthy. I see consoles going the same route.
TheChewyWaffles
Member
kliklik said:
But if they rented when they could have bought new but then subsequently failed to buy the game new (because, lo and behold, it sucked) they were cheating the publisher out of a purchase. Clearly.
Hazelhurst
Member
They should've been doing this since the start of this gen. It only does fairness.Projectjustice said:
TheChewyWaffles
Member
The Abominable Snowman said:
You think the PC market is anywhere near as thriving as the console market? Are you delusional?
edit: And this is where we're heading. Publishers don't seem to understand the ecosystem they're living in. They're masturbating furiously every night to the idea, nay delusion, that every thwarted used sale equals a new sale. But this doesn't bother me as much as the supposed gamers on forums like this who spout the same rhetoric with almost religious zeal. It boggles the mind.
Projectjustice
Banned
GraveRobberX said:
No Im not trolling at all. Im not cheap like you are. I buy my games new and always have. I dont trade in my games or get them used. If this helps the industry make more money to make better games im all for it. A lot of devs are have been closing left and right and people are losing their jobs. Anyways, if you buy a game used and pay $10 it still cheaper than $60 dollar games. Stop bitching, I came from an era that games were $80 and up.
GuiltySpank
Banned
At least they're not charging for online play...
GraveRobberX
Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
Massa said:
BULL FUCKING SHIT!
Go see how much Heavenly Sword is, the game is fucking ancient, MOTHERFUCKING Mum-Ra Ancient, it's still around $30 NEW!
I got BulletStorm, not even 3 months old, same for Dragon Age II, and Shift 2 Unleashed $15 each from Best Buy
There's a reason the saying "Patience is a Virtue, wait long enough...Shit gets cheap...unless your Apple products"
PC has piracy brah, you take away 2nd hand sales, guess what will coming roaring in LOL
Jesus, I can't believe people are ready to give away their consumer rights, and take it up the ass and not fight, you should always be looking for the best deals, that's is what consumers do, ALWAYS!...if you think that is BULLSHIT!...Your are trolling or lying out of your goddamned mind
Projectjustice
Banned
GraveRobberX said:
Omg $30!!!! There goes Jimmys, college fund! Jesus gamers today are the cheapest assholes in the world.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
NPD doesn't track used sales. If this new system lowers prices, because of the curbed piracy and curbed used sales, I'm all for itGraveRobberX said:
And if they wait for a price drop, it still gets added to NPD total and on top of that the publisher gets more reward than a used game sale, deeply discounted or not.
GraveRobberX said:
Dreamcast, DS, Xbox, PSP, and a host of other platforms did too, and the piracy was rampant enough to affect the system's livelyhood. If anything this system will curb piracy. Pirate copies can't play online anymore. PC was easy enough to get around and play online, but it'll be much harder on consoles.
TheChewyWaffles
Member
Projectjustice said:
Might as well call anyone looking to make a good buy in the world a cheap asshole then. There are about 7 billion of them, last I heard. Only idiots and fools pay more for things than legally required.
Maybe some of you should set up a Sony donation fund and cut them a check every quarter since you're so inclined to give MORE of your money away tomorrow for the same services you're already enjoying today FOR FREE.