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Connecticut to Ban Gun Sales to Those on Federal Terrorism Lists
- Thread starter GK86
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this is like saying "hey, let's make sure child sex offenders can't be hired in places like schools"
like, are you serious? of course terrorists shouldn't have access to guns. wtf is this shit
terrorists don't have access to guns. people who are suspected of being a future terrorist by the secret unappealable process within DHS do
this is like asking why someone suspected of being a child sex offender isn't in jail -- because we have a legal system that requires you to, you know, prove it
This wouldn't put a dent into white males shooting up everyone they see though... which is a statistical danger I'm more worried about.
This also tramples all over rights. The list is a joke. If the list was some heavily vetted document, sure, if it includes proof of someone with direct ties to terrorism, they shouldn't get a gun.
Thats not what this is.
Terrorist aren't gunning down americans daily. Americans are gunning down americans. Fear legislation.
This also tramples all over rights. The list is a joke. If the list was some heavily vetted document, sure, if it includes proof of someone with direct ties to terrorism, they shouldn't get a gun.
Thats not what this is.
Terrorist aren't gunning down americans daily. Americans are gunning down americans. Fear legislation.
Ninja Scooter
Member
this is like saying "hey, let's make sure child sex offenders can't be hired in places like schools"
like, are you serious? of course terrorists shouldn't have access to guns. wtf is this shit
No, this is like saying guys without girlfriends who drive vans shouldn't be hired in places like schools.
Marty Chinn
Member
this is like saying "hey, let's make sure child sex offenders can't be hired in places like schools"
like, are you serious? of course terrorists shouldn't have access to guns. wtf is this shit
Those child sex offenders had their due process and were convicted of a crime that classified them as a child sex offender.
Do you understand how that's different than someone in the government typing your name onto a list for whatever reason they feel like and you not even knowing about it until you encounter an issue that utilizes this list?
LizardKing
Member
Glad to see most of GAF realizes this is a terrible idea. It's such a blatant affront to the Constitution and rule of law I can't believe Obama would suggest it. Just goes to show that liberals can be just as bad as conservatives when trying to skirt the law and infringe on people's rights and freedoms, in order to accomplish their goals.
The thing is, it's hard for most people to consider not being able to get a gun as an "issue." It just doesn't make sense or register to most people in the developed world, outside of 30-40% of the US population. I believe Switzerland has a policy where upon any new mental health diagnosis, you lose your guns until you get medically regulated. And you yourself can request to be put on the no gun list/have your guns held for a while if you feel you have some issues you need to take care of, no questions asked, and it will be granted, much like some people request temporary bans from GAF for a few months to focus on their studies or work.
And these restrictions are considered great social services to have available, even if there is no due process/court procedure. Not Owning a gun just isn't seen as something to be concerned over.
We are blinded by our gun fetishism in the US
None of that addresses the fact that the list has no oversight, needs no proof and we're using it to specifically deny constitutional rights that other citizens have.
Go after the 2nd amendment, if enough people feel it shouldn't be a right we can amend the constitution, but until then don't start taking away rights for specific, legally innocent people because 'really NO ONE should have those rights'
No one here would stand for a bill that ran on an invisible list that contained 95% black people being restricted from buying guns. 'Oh but don't you see minorities, NO ONE needs guns so if you specifically cant buy them it's not a big deal, besides the rest of the world gets along just fine without them' would be a terrible answer
Marty Chinn
Member
The guns don't matter here. It could be apples for all I care. The issue is a list being created with no oversight where you can get put on it arbitrarily with little recourse to get yourself off the list let alone being notified you're even on the list to begin with and as a result having your rights restricted or removed.
Maybe you'll understand me when you stop putting words in my mouth. Again I never said I was an advocate for this specific order. If there is a lawful way to restrict terrorists then we should be moving towards taking those actions instead of critiquing a government made list on the basis of imperfection.
The FBI says people on this list are acquiring weapons. Are we to assume that nobody on this list is unfit to own a gun? Are we to assume they're all just holding on to them and that they're not being circulated? These people exist so something legal should be done about that and contrary to your belief that people are being manipulated emotionally, I've felt that way long before mass shootings have become a daily occurrence. If there is a legal way to create a list and stop inappropriate individuals from having these weapons then we should pursue that. Even if a reversible mistake is made by the government. How is that a problem?
And as far as due process, US gun background checks already restrict people who haven't been convicted of a crime so people can get still get their due process and still be barred legally.
soundahfekz
Member
took the words out of my mouth man
timetokill
Banned
Maybe read the thread and you'll see why it's an abhorrent idea
Ninja Scooter
Member
If guns are legal to acquire then the fbi should prove that these specific people have committed a crime to show why they shouldn't have them.
nah man, fuck guns, in any way, by any means, without any thought, just fuck em all to death
LizardKing
Member
I've really mostly thought liberalism is the ideology of logic, rule of law and individual rights. I still mostly think that's the case but man when in comes to gun control....
Zvonimir Boban
Banned
Good point, to be on the safe side they should put every single person in the country onto the no-fly list and terrorist watch list unless they can prove beyond any doubt that they're not a potential terrorist.
timetokill
Banned
Ding ding ding
This depends on whether you consider being able to buy a gun a right.
I don't, so I have no problem with preventing anyone from buying a gun for any reason. Someone in the government thinking you might have a terrorist tendency is more than enough for me. My crazy uncle thinking your left eye looks funny is enough for me.
I actually do have a problem with the no-fly list itself, as being unable to fly is much more burdensome for many people. I definitely want more oversight and recourse for that.
Ninja Scooter
Member
As it stands now, it is a "right". If you want to change that, change it for everyone, not just brown people with weird sounding names.
timetokill
Banned
It's a right, whether you want it to be or not. Our whole society is built upon the fact that we have rights that can't be taken away by the government. It depends upon the fact that you can't just pick and choose which rights you think are valid.
For the same reason, we can't just say that certain people don't get free speech because we don't like what they say, or that they can't be of a certain religion. We don't say that certain people don't get due process just because.
If you really believe this:
"Someone in the government thinking you might have a terrorist tendency is more than enough for me. My crazy uncle thinking your left eye looks funny is enough for me."
... then I'm glad you're comfortable with who you are. But just realize that you're both racist and fascist for supporting this.
It's also the only right that has the words "well regulated" in it
That is not how it works. What you are describing is a straw purchase, which is illegal. I'm a CT resident with my pistol permit. It's fairly tough to legally buy a gun here.
Trigger Warning
Member
The Obama administration has been violating constitutional rights for quite some time, so this shouldn't surprise anyone really.
Link
The Autumn Wind
Oh, this should be good.
I dunno, we have processes in place such that no one, even people with squeaky clean records who have never even been a person of interest in any investigations, can say certain things in certain places. I don't see the problem if you view the constitution as a framework, which it is.
Demoskinos
Member
I'm glad there is at least some forward movement on SOMETHING but man this should be in place nation wide.
Yeah, i thought there would be more outrage against the governor here honestly. I mean from what I understand getting on those lists is ridiculously easy and isn't much proof of anything.
VendettaRed07
Member
Unlawful violation of the constitution
I'm not a fan of the second amendment but it's there and we can't just circumvent it in politically expedient ways by making legally arbitrary links as evidence as to why someone is disqualified from having the same rights as other people
But we'll probably pass it because we give zero fucks here when it comes to gun laws (edit: take that with a grain of salt, only applied to American of gun laws)
I'm not a fan of the second amendment but it's there and we can't just circumvent it in politically expedient ways by making legally arbitrary links as evidence as to why someone is disqualified from having the same rights as other people
But we'll probably pass it because we give zero fucks here when it comes to gun laws (edit: take that with a grain of salt, only applied to American of gun laws)
... do we live in the same country?
VendettaRed07
Member
I just meant Connecticut in comparison to other states at the very least. Laws that wouldn't fly literally anywhere else tend to make traction here in my experience.. Especially after sandy hook.
Gee, maybe that's because people don't like seeing kindergartners shot up?
it really shouldn't
Owning a gun shouldn't be a right though.
Vincent Alexander
Member
I couldn't agree more.
timetokill
Banned
We definitely should let the government decide which rights people should have, on a whim with no oversight or due process.
What's the worst that could happen?
Like I said, it's not or shouldn't be a "right."
So if they take your guns I don't see them as stripping you of any rights. They are taking your killing toy that you shouldn't have access to in the first place.
timetokill
Banned
And yet, it's the law of the land. If you feel fascism is justified because of the ends, well, I guess there's no convincing you.
Taking away your ability to own a killing machine, a machine that literally has no purpose other than causing damage, does not equal fascism.
timetokill
Banned
Considering it's a right and you want to use a secret government list with no oversight or accountability or due process.... yes it is.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Sports. As in recognized by the International Olympic Committee and plenty of other bodies. I can tell, I regularly partake in amateur and officially sanctioned competitions.
Also, hunting. Which is a way of life and puts food on the table in plenty of rural communities.
Guns are not the problem. Piss poor regulation is. Other countries allow their citizens to own guns and they are not running into the same problems as America. Besides, America is not going to ban guns, so the least you can do is to push for sensible regulation instead of piss poor measures as this one, which will only manage to enrage gun nuts and nullify citizen's rights.
At first I was shocked by the fact that people on a terror list can purchase a gun, but looking at some of the responses, the issue at hand is way too complex for such measures to be enabled.
Hexa
Member
I think you're missing his point. At this point the law rules that owning a gun is a constitutional right, irrelevant of what you or even most of America believes. Hence by extension, if the courts rule that people on such a watch list no longer have the ability to buy guns, then they are setting a reasonable precedent by extension that people on such watch lists can have their rights taken away without due process of law.
Personally, I think its worth it in this specific instance but I think the concerns are valid and that a heightened sense of vigilance is also absolutely necessary to make sure it doesn't go much further.
Mr. Giggles
Member
That would be quite a twist.
My knee jerk reaction was "duh, of course" but reading some posts I see why it doesn't work
Although, if due process were involved I.e. You could contest names being put on the list would Americans still support this initiative?
My gut tells me "no"
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