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NYT: How Trump Came to Enforce a Practice of Separating Migrant Families (Because of Stephen Miller)

natjjohn

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Great article.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/16/us/politics/family-separation-trump.html

Excerpt:

Almost immediately after President Trump took office, his administration began weighing what for years had been regarded as the nuclear option in the effort to discourage immigrants from unlawfully entering the United States.

Children would be separated from their parents if the families had been apprehended entering the country illegally, John F. Kelly, then the homeland security secretary, said in March 2017, “in order to deter more movement along this terribly dangerous network.”

For more than a decade, even as illegal immigration levels fell overall, seasonal spikes in unauthorized border crossings had bedeviled American presidents in both political parties, prompting them to cast about for increasingly aggressive ways to discourage migrants from making the trek.

Yet for George W. Bush and Barack Obama, the idea of crying children torn from their parents’ arms was simply too inhumane — and too politically perilous — to embrace as policy, and Mr. Trump, though he had made an immigration crackdown one of the central issues of his campaign, succumbed to the same reality, publicly dropping the idea after Mr. Kelly’s comments touched off a swift backlash.

But advocates inside the administration, most prominently Stephen Miller, Mr. Trump’s senior policy adviser, never gave up on the idea. Last month, facing a sharp uptick in illegal border crossings, Mr. Trump ordered a new effort to criminally prosecute anyone who crossed the border unlawfully — with few exceptions for parents traveling with their minor children.

And now Mr. Trump faces the consequences. With thousands of children detained in makeshift shelters, his spokesmen this past week had to deny accusations that the administration was acting like Nazis. Even evangelical supporters like Franklin Graham said its policy was “disgraceful.”

Among those who have professed objections to the policy is the president himself, who despite his tough rhetoric on immigration and his clear directive to show no mercy in enforcing the law, has searched publicly for someone else to blame for dividing families. He has falsely claimed that Democrats are responsible for the practice. But the kind of pictures so feared by Mr. Trump’s predecessors could end up defining a major domestic policy issue of his term.

Inside the Trump administration, current and former officials say, there is considerable unease about the policy, which is regarded by some charged with carrying it out as unfeasible in practice and questionable morally. Kirstjen Nielsen, the current homeland security secretary, has clashed privately with Mr. Trump over the practice, sometimes inviting furious lectures from the president that have pushed her to the brink of resignation.

But Mr. Miller has expressed none of the president’s misgivings. “No nation can have the policy that whole classes of people are immune from immigration law or enforcement,” he said during an interview in his West Wing office this past week. “It was a simple decision by the administration to have a zero tolerance policy for illegal entry, period. The message is that no one is exempt from immigration law.”

The administration’s critics are not buying that explanation. “This is not a zero tolerance policy, this is a zero humanity policy, and we can’t let it go on,” said Senator Jeff Merkley, Democrat of Oregon.

“Ripping children out of their parents’ arms to inflict harm on the child to influence the parents,” he added, “is unacceptable.”

Beyond those moral objections, Jeh C. Johnson, who as secretary of homeland security was the point man for the Obama administration’s own struggles with illegal immigration, argued that deterrence, in and of itself, is neither practical nor a long-term solution to the problem.

“I’ve seen this movie before, and I feel like what we are doing now, with the zero tolerance policy and separating parents and children for the purpose of deterrence, is banging our heads against the wall,” he said. “Whether it’s family detention, messaging about dangers of the journey, or messaging about separating families and zero tolerance, it’s always going to have at best a short-term reaction.”

And that view was based on hard experience.

When Central American migrants, including many unaccompanied children, began surging across the border in early 2014, Mr. Obama, the antithesis of his impulsive successor, had his own characteristic reaction: He formed a multiagency team at the White House to figure out what should be done.

“This was the bane of my existence for three years,” Mr. Johnson said. “No matter what you did, somebody was going to be very angry at you.”

The officials met in the office of Denis R. McDonough, the White House chief of staff, and convened a series of meetings in the Situation Room to go through their options. Migrants were increasingly exploiting existing immigration laws and court rulings, and using children as a way to get adults into the country, on the theory that families were being treated differently from single people.

“The agencies were surfacing every possible idea,” Cecilia Muñoz, Mr. Obama’s top domestic policy adviser, recalled, including whether to separate parents from their children. “I do remember looking at each other like, ‘We’re not going to do this, are we?’ We spent five minutes thinking it through and concluded that it was a bad idea. The morality of it was clear — that’s not who we are.”

They did, however, decide to vastly expand the detention of immigrant families, opening new facilities along the border where women and young children were held for long periods while they awaited a chance to have their cases processed.

Mr. Johnson wrote an open letter to appear in Spanish-language news outlets warning parents that their children would be deported if they entered the United States illegally. He traveled to Guatemala to deliver the message in person. Opening a large family immigration detention facility in Dilley, Tex., he held a news conference to showcase what he called an “effective deterrent.”

The steps led to just the kind of brutal images that Mr. Obama’s advisers feared: hundreds of young children, many dirty and some in tears, who were being held with their families in makeshift detention facilities.

Immigrant advocacy groups denounced the policy, berating senior administration officials — some of whom were reduced to rueful apologies for a policy they said they could not justify — and telling Mr. Obama to his face during a meeting at the White House in late 2014 that he was turning his back on the most vulnerable people seeking refuge in the United States.

“I was pissed, and still am,” said Ben Johnson, the executive director of the American Immigration Lawyers Association. “I thought that he had a shocking disregard for due process.”

Before long, the Obama administration would face legal challenges, and be forced to stop detaining families indefinitely. A federal judge in Washington ordered the administration in 2015 to stop detaining asylum-seeking Central American mothers and children in order to deter others from their region from coming into the United States.

Under a 1997 consent decree known as the Flores settlement, unaccompanied children could be held in immigration detention for only a short period of time; in 2016, a federal judge ruled that the settlement applied to families as well, effectively requiring that they be released within 20 days. Many were released — some with GPS ankle bracelets to track their movements — and asked to return for a court date sometime in the future.

It was Mr. Bush, who had firsthand experience with the border as governor of Texas and ran for president as a “compassionate conservative,” who initiated the “zero tolerance” approach for illegal immigration on which Mr. Trump’s policy is modeled.

In 2005, he launched Operation Streamline, a program along a stretch of the border in Texas that referred all unlawful entrants for criminal prosecution, imprisoning them and expediting assembly-line-style trials geared toward quickly deporting them. The initiative yielded results and was soon expanded to more border sectors. Back then, however, exceptions were generally made for adults who were traveling with minor children, as well as juveniles and people who were ill.

Mr. Obama’s administration employed the program at the height of the migration crisis as well, although it generally did not treat first-time border crossers as priorities for prosecution, and it detained families together in Immigration and Customs Enforcement custody — administrative, rather than criminal, detention.

Discussions began almost immediately after Mr. Trump took office about vastly expanding Operation Streamline, with almost none of those limitations. Even after Mr. Kelly stopped talking publicly about family separation, the Department of Homeland Security quietly tested the approach last summer in certain areas in Texas.

Privately, Mr. Miller argued that bringing back “zero tolerance” would be a potent tool in a severely limited arsenal of strategies for stopping migrants from flooding across the border.

The idea was to end a practice referred to by its detractors as “catch and release,” in which illegal immigrants apprehended at the border are released into the interior of the United States to await the processing of their cases. Mr. Miller argued that the policy provided a perverse incentive for migrants, essentially ensuring that if they could make it to the United States border and claim a “credible fear” of returning home, they would be given a chance to stay under asylum laws, at least temporarily.

A lengthy backlog of asylum claims made it likely that it would be years before they would have to appear before a judge to back up that plea — and many never returned to do so.

The situation was even more complicated when children were involved. A 2008 law meant to combat the trafficking of minors places strict requirements on how unaccompanied migrant children from Central America are to be treated.

Minors from Mexico or Canada — countries contiguous with the United States — can be quickly sent back to their home countries unless it is deemed dangerous to do so. But those from other nations cannot be quickly returned; they must be transferred within 72 hours to the Office of Refugee Resettlement at the Department of Health and Human Services, and placed in the least restrictive setting possible. And the Flores ruling meant that children and families could not be held for more than 20 days.

In October, after Mr. Trump ended Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals, the Obama-era program that gave legal status to undocumented immigrants raised in the United States, Mr. Miller insisted that any legislative package to codify those protections contain changes to close what he called the loopholes encouraging illegal immigrants to come.

told NPR in May. “The children will be taken care of — put into foster care or whatever — but the big point is they elected to come illegally into the United States, and this is a technique that no one hopes will be used extensively or for very long.”

Technically, there is no Trump administration policy stating that illegal border crossers must be separated from their children. But the “zero tolerance policy” results in unlawful immigrants being taken into federal criminal custody, at which point their children are considered unaccompanied alien minors and taken away.

Unlike Mr. Obama’s administration, Mr. Trump’s is treating all people who have crossed the border without authorization as subject to criminal prosecution, even if they tell the officer apprehending them that they are seeking asylum based on fear of returning to their home country, and whether or not they have their children in tow.

“Having children does not give you immunity from arrest and prosecution,” Attorney General Jeff Sessions said in a speech on Thursday in Fort Wayne, Ind.

“I would cite you to the Apostle Paul and his clear and wise command in Romans 13 to obey the laws of the government,” said Mr. Sessions, quoting Bible verse as he took exception to evangelical leaders who have called the practice abhorrent. “Because God has ordained them for the purpose of order.”


Some more specific choice excerpts and quotes:

But advocates inside the administration, most prominently Stephen Miller, Mr. Trump’s senior policy adviser, never gave up on the idea. Last month, facing a sharp uptick in illegal border crossings, Mr. Trump ordered a new effort to criminally prosecute anyone who crossed the border unlawfully — with few exceptions for parents traveling with their minor children.


From Stephen Miller

But Mr. Miller has expressed none of the president’s misgivings. “No nation can have the policy that whole classes of people are immune from immigration law or enforcement,” he said during an interview in his West Wing office this past week. “It was a simple decision by the administration to have a zero tolerance policy for illegal entry, period. The message is that no one is exempt from immigration law.”

From John Kelly

A big name of the game is deterrence,” Mr. Kelly, now the chief of staff, told NPR in May. “The children will be taken care of — put into foster care or whatever — but the big point is they elected to come illegally into the United States, and this is a technique that no one hopes will be used extensively or for very long.”



As was seen in a different thread, can parrot lies from Trump its the dems law, but easily verifiable to see that’s a lie. Doesn’t even make logical sense how Trump blames Dems, but ordered this and him and his cronies defend the practice even trying to use the Bible to defend it.
 

TrainedRage

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Great article.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/16/us/politics/family-separation-trump.html

Excerpt:




Some more specific choice excerpts and quotes:




From Stephen Miller



From John Kelly





As was seen in a different thread, can parrot lies from Trump its the dems law, but easily verifiable to see that’s a lie. Doesn’t even make logical sense how Trump blames Dems, but ordered this and him and his cronies defend the practice even trying to use the Bible to defend it.
EDIT: Apparently posting a pic immigrant kids suffering under the Obama admin is not acceptable, in-contextual and irrelevant to some people in this thread. To to bow to the whim of the outraged the picture has been removed. Have a nice day!
 
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natjjohn

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You started with the “Dem law” lie which was easily debunked garbage, and now going to a “whataboutism” with a photo with no context behind the photo. Obama admin did not permanently separate children from their parents. Obama isn’t president. Trump is and he ordered this.
 
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gohepcat

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So how do you justify this picture from 2014? So Trump has been the only president to enforce this? Come on man we know this is not true.
Ohh you mean that picture of unaccompanied minors who were NOT separated from their families that the subhumans have been using to justify this cruelty? That one? Is that what you are talking about?
 

TrainedRage

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Ohh you mean that picture of unaccompanied minors who were NOT separated from their families that the subhumans have been using to justify this cruelty? That one? Is that what you are talking about?
I thought the picture had "No Context" which is it?
 
D

Deleted member 713885

Unconfirmed Member
If you break the law your subject to prosecution. What happens to legit Americans when they commit a crime and have children? The kids go into the system.
How are we supposed to put kids into a system who arent American?
It's just a makeshift foster home/orphanage.

Dont want camps...stop breaking the law.
 
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natjjohn

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I thought the picture had "No Context" which is it?

I didn’t post that. I said that you posted a photo with no context. Your post still has no context and doesn’t really change anything. Trump ordered the separation of kids from both their parents. This photo doesn’t change that or really argue anything.

Do you support this Trump policy?
 
D

Deleted member 713885

Unconfirmed Member
I didn’t post that. I said that you posted a photo with no context. Your post still has no context and doesn’t really change anything. Trump ordered the separation of kids from both their parents. This photo doesn’t change that or really argue anything.

Do you support this Trump policy?

We usually dont house kids with their criminal parents do we?
If I get a trespassing charge and get locked up..my kid gets put in the system cause I broke the rules.
 

gohepcat

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If you break the law your subject to prosecution. What happens to legit American children when they commit a crime and have children? The kids go into the system.
How are we supposed to put kids into a system who arent American?
It's just a makeshift foster home/orphanage.

Dont want camps...stop breaking the law.

They are not breaking the law. They are turning themselves in at the border as asylum-seekers and having their children taken away from them.
 

TrainedRage

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I didn’t post that. I said that you posted a photo with no context. Your post still has no context and doesn’t really change anything. Trump ordered the separation of kids from both their parents. This photo doesn’t change that or really argue anything.

Do you support this Trump policy?

I think the onus is on the parents who refuse to follow the law and are willing to put their own children in this position. We have laws and those laws have consequences. If that means some kids go into a foster or temporary home, so be it. As long as they are not being abused or neglected. But here I am as a taxpayer paying for these illegal children to be housed by the US because they had parents that just didn't care about the possible consequences. That's what I think.
 

gohepcat

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We usually dont house kids with their criminal parents do we?
If I get a trespassing charge and get locked up..my kid gets put in the system cause I broke the rules.

Why don’t you do something good? Why don’t you speak out against this? Why are you defending this? This is just plain cruelty. Are you seriously so blindly partisan that and obviously cruel thing doesn’t matter to you?
 

TrainedRage

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Why don’t you do something good? Why don’t you speak out against this? Why are you defending this? This is just plain cruelty. Are you seriously so blindly partisan that and obviously cruel thing doesn’t matter to you?
So speaking out is having an effect? LOL
You think you are resisting some system of oppression by posting how you don't like it on an internet forum? Why don't you do something good?
 

gohepcat

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I think the onus is on the parents who refuse to follow the law and are willing to put their own children in this position. We have laws and those laws have consequences. If that means some kids go into a foster or temporary home, so be it. As long as they are not being abused or neglected. But here I am as a taxpayer paying for these illegal children to be housed by the US because they had parents that just didn't care about the possible consequences. That's what I think.

Does it bother you at all that you keep spreading a lie that the Obama administration was doing this? If it’s moral and just why do you keep posting that picture and saying Obama used to do it?
 
D

Deleted member 713885

Unconfirmed Member
They are not breaking the law. They are turning themselves in at the border as asylum-seekers and having their children taken away from them.

Well, clearly that was a bad idea. Sadly the system is clogged and they might have to deal with the separation for a while till their all shipped back.
Hopefully it's pretty clear to other people doing the same will face the same fate and they decide to turn around.

God willing they raise they're children up to help their home country to become one worth staying in.
 

gohepcat

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So speaking out is having an effect? LOL
You think you are resisting some system of oppression by posting how you don't like it on an internet forum? Why don't you do something good?

I don’t spread lies about it. I donate money to the ACLU.
 

natjjohn

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We usually dont house kids with their criminal parents do we?
If I get a trespassing charge and get locked up..my kid gets put in the system cause I broke the rules.

Your child won’t be sent to a tent city or thrown in a former Walmart where they can’t be touched or comforted in any way. Gaurantee you that.

Some of these families are seeking asylum from dangerous situations so equating them with criminals is disingenuous IMO.

Also, you won’t be permanently separated from your kids for a trespassing charge. You’d be unlikely to spend any time in jail.
 

TrainedRage

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Does it bother you at all that you keep spreading a lie that the Obama administration was doing this? If it’s moral and just why do you keep posting that picture and saying Obama used to do it?
So that picture is a lie now? WTF world is this. The fact of the matter id that if you are white knighting for the safety and proper treatment of kids how do you justify that picture from Obamas administration. I dont care what the context is.
 

natjjohn

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So that picture is a lie now? WTF world is this. The fact of the matter id that if you are white knighting for the safety and proper treatment of kids how do you justify that picture from Obamas administration. I dont care what the context is.


This is whataboutism. Your earlier post was clear, you don’t care about these kids or the context. Using it as some gotcha game of some kind.

Bottom line is, Trump is separating kids from their parents. Obama didn’t.
 

gohepcat

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So that picture is a lie now? WTF world is this. The fact of the matter id that if you are white knighting for the safety and proper treatment of kids how do you justify that picture from Obamas administration. I dont care what the context is.

What are you talking about? The picture is not showing kids who are separated from their parents. You were fucking spreading shitty information. What is fucking wrong with you? You are posting it on the Internet and spreading lies so people can fucking sleep at night thinking that this isnt something new. It is new. It is happening now. There are things that you can do to help prevent it. Just be a fucking human being
 

TrainedRage

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This is whataboutism. Your earlier post was clear, you don’t care about these kids or the context. Using it as some gotcha game of some kind.

Bottom line is, Trump is separating kids from their parents. Obama didn’t.
Ok yeah, clearly I never said I don't care about what happens to these kids. In fact I said I DO have a problem if they are being neglected or abused, Christ why are you so uppity and ignoring entire parts of my posts? Its like your just hearing what you want to hear.
 

gohepcat

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So that picture is a lie now? WTF world is this. The fact of the matter id that if you are white knighting for the safety and proper treatment of kids how do you justify that picture from Obamas administration. I dont care what the context is.

What are you fucking talking about? The picture is not of kids who were separated from their parents. It’s a picture of unaccompanied minors.
 

TrainedRage

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What are you talking about? The picture is not showing kids who are separated from their parents. You were fucking spreading shitty information. What is fucking wrong with you? You are posting it on the Internet and spreading lies so people can fucking sleep at night thinking that this isnt something new. It is new. It is happening now. There are things that you can do to help prevent it. Just be a fucking human being
LOL.. I CANT... EVEN ....:eek::rolleyes:o_O:unsure:

Im out, no one is interested in having a rational discussion about the actual treatment of these kids and what could or should be done. Im not gonna be part of this Era level discussion. (y)
 

natjjohn

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Ok yeah, clearly I never said I don't care about what happens to these kids. In fact I said I DO have a problem if they are being neglected or abused, Christ why are you so uppity and ignoring entire parts of my posts? Its like your just hearing what you want to hear.

Then you should have a problem with what’s going on. The treatment of the kids here is bad. They are experiencing severe trauma that will last even if reunified with their parents tomorrow. This trauma is being inflicted by Trump.

That picture doesn’t show a permanent separation from their parents. I still don’t know what your point is with the photo other than being able to say Obama. Are you saying conditions are better now? I’m just not sure where you’re going with it.

Kids are being traumatized for no reason by the US government in a new way, and its wrong.
 

ssolitare

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Well, if the defense automatically is "but obama" to trumps wild escalation as sitting president, what are they even hoping to accomplish.

Article was a great read. Hopefully the Senate tackles this.
 
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TrainedRage

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Then you should have a problem with what’s going on. The treatment of the kids here is bad. They are experiencing severe trauma that will last even if reunified with their parents tomorrow. This trauma is being inflicted by Trump.

That picture doesn’t show a permanent separation from their parents. I still don’t know what your point is with the photo other than being able to say Obama. Are you saying conditions are better now? I’m just not sure where you’re going with it.

Kids are being traumatized for no reason by the US government in a new way, and its wrong.
This is why I wont have this discussion. When you can tell me that breaking the laws have consequences I will be more than happy to talk about the results and effects. But if you cant admit there is blame on both ends here I have nothing more to say.
 

TrainedRage

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Well, if the defense automatically is "but obama" to trumps wild escalation as sitting president, what are they even hoping to accomplish.

Article was a great read. Hopefully the Senate tackles this.
Congress has the power to change this, and the Dems in congress could easily bring this issue to vote or make a new solution but they simply aren't or haven't done it yet.
 

gohepcat

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LOL.. I CANT... EVEN ....:eek::rolleyes:o_O:unsure:

Im out, no one is interested in having a rational discussion about the actual treatment of these kids and what could or should be done. Im not gonna be part of this Era level discussion. (y)

Why don’t you remove the picture up top then? People see that picture and believe the that it’s kids from 2014 who were separated from their parents. It’s not and you spreading it is actively making it worse.
 
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natjjohn

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This is why I wont have this discussion. When you can tell me that breaking the laws have consequences I will be more than happy to talk about the results and effects. But if you cant admit there is blame on both ends here I have nothing more to say.


So asylum seekers are law breakers?

Put yourself in their shoes. You and your family are seeking asylum due to whatever (let’s say Obama and the deep state has commissioned thugs to harm you and your family). You flee to Canada seeking asylum, your kids (including an infant) are shipped to a tent city and you may never see them again. Your kids have no idea what’s going on.

You see that as right and what you would expect to happen?
 

Shamylov

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This is why I wont have this discussion. When you can tell me that breaking the laws have consequences I will be more than happy to talk about the results and effects. But if you cant admit there is blame on both ends here I have nothing more to say.

You are very clearly acting like a partisan apologist. You keep trying to blame both sides for the situation when it wouldn't change the fact that this is still despicable and we want it to change. Also, you're wrong and it's been pointed out to you but you still persist.
 

gohepcat

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This is why I wont have this discussion. When you can tell me that breaking the laws have consequences I will be more than happy to talk about the results and effects. But if you cant admit there is blame on both ends here I have nothing more to say.

What laws? These people are showing up and border stations, passing interviews, and having their children taken away from them. No laws are being broken.
 

TrainedRage

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Why don’t you remove the picture up top then? People see that picture and believe the that it’s kids from 2014 who were separated from their parents. It’s not and you are spreading that are actively making it worse.
Ok I edited it just for you. :geek:
 

natjjohn

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Congress has the power to change this, and the Dems in congress could easily bring this issue to vote or make a new solution but they simply aren't or haven't done it yet.

Trump and his party are in full control. Dems can only bring things to vote with some republican support.

https://www.salon.com/2018/06/16/se...ort-on-bill-that-will-end-border-separations/

Democrats in the Senate have found 43 members to support the Keep Families Together Act, a bill that will prohibit federal officials from removing a child from his or her parents on the southern border. Not one Republican senator has signed onto the legislation.
 

zumphry

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EDIT: Apparently posting a pic immigrant kids suffering under the Obama admin is not acceptable, in-contextual and irrelevant to some people in this thread. To to bow to the whim of the outraged the picture has been removed. Have a nice day!

Is Obama president right now? 🤨🤔
 

oagboghi2

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If you break the law your subject to prosecution. What happens to legit Americans when they commit a crime and have children? The kids go into the system.
How are we supposed to put kids into a system who arent American?
It's just a makeshift foster home/orphanage.

Dont want camps...stop breaking the law.
Nothing more that needs to be said. Stop breaking our damn laws
So asylum seekers are law breakers?

Put yourself in their shoes. You and your family are seeking asylum due to whatever (let’s say Obama and the deep state has commissioned thugs to harm you and your family). You flee to Canada seeking asylum, your kids (including an infant) are shipped to a tent city and you may never see them again. Your kids have no idea what’s going on.

You see that as right and what you would expect to happen?
if that did happen, would liberals come running to my defense? I heavily doubt that
 
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D

Deleted member 713885

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Heres the thing, what do we do with these people? These kids?

Our own Americans who are impoverished are barely getting by with what limited government assistance we have.
Single mothers, families, are own waiting list for years for housing.
American kids in the "system" are more then our social workers can even keep track of.
American kids barely have enough money in schools for good books, teachers have 30 kids in a class.


So what do we do? We just open the flood gates?


Let's get this straight...

America is great, its AMAZING...But we DONT have a never ending wallet to feed, clothe, house, and educate every immigrant from a poor country.


Facts > Feelings.


I'd LOVE, LOVE an option on tax forms/W-2's for every EVERY "Let them in freely!" bleeding heart
that stated..
"I as a person supporting free flowing immigration allot $100 per-week ($5200 a year) from my salary as well as agree to house a family for 3-5 years."

That's it. You want them, your heart is big enough to look past the facts...then YOU pay for them and YOU house them.


They took a chance, knew the rules, new are government for the last 16 months has publicly said "Turn around" and they said fuck it.
 

gohepcat

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Facts > Feelings.

You are 100% about feelings and not facts.

The fact is that they did not break laws. The fact is they did not know that their children would be taken away from them because they never were before. They were given no warning. They did the right thing. They turned themselves in at the border as asylum-seekers. They didn’t sneak across the border. They followed the rules and had their kids taken away from them. This has been explained to you multiple times. But your feelings seem to be getting in the way.

https://www.texastribune.org/2018/0...um-disabilities-separated-grandmother-border/

Facts > Feelings.

I’m going to go out on a limb here and he say you have absolutely no idea about the impact of illegal immigration in the United States. You seem to have no idea how badly we need young people in the United States to offset an aging population. How desperately we need tax revenue and insurance money from a young healthy Americans. I’d be willing to bet you know nothing about the declining birthrate of the current population.

Facts > Feelings.

You are the perfect example of feelings over facts. You are why we can’t have immigration reform because the moment somebody runs on the idea that we desperately need more immigrants their opponents simply use that as a cudgel and people like you will believe it. You’ve been around for as long as there have been countries. Fear of the “foreign invaders” is one of the most powerful political tools available. And because you can’t except facts that make you uncomfortable, you choose not to believe it.

You have done it multiple times in this thread. After being told that these people We’re not breaking any laws you didn’t change your position. You don’t do anything to help. You don’t call your local representative and complain. You don’t change your vote.
 
S

SLoWMoTIoN

Unconfirmed Member
Our own Americans who are impoverished are barely getting by with what limited government assistance we have.
Its mostly the people that work shitty jobs that need the assistance but are making "too much" and the "impoverished" people are the welfare guys that buy yearly iphones and spend their money on eating out.

:shrug:
 

LegendOfKage

Member
Mar 6, 2018
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5,492
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That’s a c9 my dude

You sunk my battleship.

In all honesty, the picture actually is somewhat relevant to this conversation, as it was passed around and incorrectly claimed to be a picture from what is happening now, which caused many to talk about how horrific the picture was. Then it was pointed out that those pictures were taken during the Obama administration. People kind of whataboutism'ed themselves, there.

Very quickly my feelings on the topic: Taking children from their parents is unacceptable. If it's happening, taking people into the country who show up at your border seeking asylum into the country and putting those people in jail is unacceptable. The idea of a parent and a 9 year old child repeatedly and illegally entering the country, and the US not being able to do anything about it other than send them on their way and have them try again is unacceptable. None of this is acceptable, and I have no idea what we should do about any of it. It's a mess, and I don't think there's any easy answer here.
 
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Ke0

Member
Aug 10, 2012
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Reading, Berkshire
You'd think being about small government they wouldn't separate kids because building all these places to house them is more expensive than just leaving them with their parents and sending them both back versus sending just the parents. Though I will say I find America interesting in the fact there is no law about this, yet because of how hilarious your media is in calling out blatant falsehoods, now a huge segment of your country thinks there IS a law on this and it's the Liberals who created it and control it despite having no control of any of the three branches lol

This whole thing is fascinating on how easily populations are swayed.